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Author Topic: BFL Monarch update  (Read 13698 times)
Bargraphics
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November 12, 2013, 12:34:45 PM
 #81

Use your eyes and your math skills.

I'll just leave this here.....

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November 12, 2013, 01:39:26 PM
 #82

Use your eyes and your math skills.

LOL!

Has it hashed?

Evidence... is not picture... we've been down that road with BFL remember?

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November 12, 2013, 02:00:54 PM
 #83

Use your eyes and your math skills.

I'll just leave this here.....



Be they ASICs or nay on that test board, the number and size will be the same, therefore same inferences may be drawn... i.e about half the size of 65nm chip, implying same number of logic elements at smaller node size, divide 600 Ghash by 48 chips, you get 12.5 Ghash/chip, which when 65nm is nominal 4-4.5Ghash at 270-300Mhz-ish implies same number of engines running at 3x the speed.

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November 12, 2013, 02:06:50 PM
 #84

Use your eyes and your math skills.

I'll just leave this here.....



Be they ASICs or nay on that test board, the number and size will be the same, therefore same inferences may be drawn... i.e about half the size of 65nm chip, implying same number of logic elements at smaller node size, divide 600 Ghash by 48 chips, you get 12.5 Ghash/chip, which when 65nm is nominal 4-4.5Ghash at 270-300Mhz-ish implies same number of engines running at 3x the speed.

LOL what?

Did you not see what KnC did to test their modules?

I don't even like arguing about Butterfly Labs "Chips" based on their past records



Keep drawing your own conclusions though...
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November 12, 2013, 02:07:33 PM
 #85

LOL Inferences...

I am talking reality. Real proof. Not a 2 week promise to deliver that turns into 12 months. Nor some sketchy vaporware pics.

KnC showed people the prototype right?

They opened up the lab if I remember correctly?


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Bargraphics
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November 12, 2013, 02:12:53 PM
 #86

LOL Inferences...

I am talking reality. Real proof. Not a 2 week promise to deliver that turns into 12 months.

KnC showed people the prototype right?

They opened up the lab if I remember correctly?


The amount of misinformation on this board is astounding.

The KnC "Prototype" was an FPGA so no there wasn't an "actual" prototype of the ASICs.

They did have an "Open Day" to show off this FPGA Prototype. Correct.

Just stating the facts in this thread, not speculation based on emotions.
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November 12, 2013, 02:59:16 PM
 #87

LOL Inferences...

I am talking reality. Real proof. Not a 2 week promise to deliver that turns into 12 months.

KnC showed people the prototype right?

They opened up the lab if I remember correctly?


The amount of misinformation on this board is astounding.

The KnC "Prototype" was an FPGA so no there wasn't an "actual" prototype of the ASICs.

They did have an "Open Day" to show off this FPGA Prototype. Correct.

Just stating the facts in this thread, not speculation based on emotions.

Ya well a lot more than just a fucking pic and what Josh says. Monarch is vapourware until they have something other than a picture given their history.

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November 13, 2013, 01:22:41 AM
 #88

ROFL

KNC NEWS :::: https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-63


So BFL ... you get an Update ?
KNC too but knc think about an 16 / 20 nm Structur



"Currently almost 70% of all Bitcoins mined today are being created upon KnCMiner hardware, distributed to customers in over 120 countries globally." - KNC


Hmmm.... wonder what Josh would have to say about that?
Personally, I call shenanigans.  5PH currently on the network, 70% = 3.5PH.  ~23% or 1.15PH is on the Ghash.io site, leaving .35PH for everyone else.  BFL has shipped more than Ghash.io at this point, meaning KnC couldn't have more than 54%.  So sad even the haters can't do proper math.

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November 13, 2013, 06:14:29 AM
 #89

ROFL

KNC NEWS :::: https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-63


So BFL ... you get an Update ?
KNC too but knc think about an 16 / 20 nm Structur



"Currently almost 70% of all Bitcoins mined today are being created upon KnCMiner hardware, distributed to customers in over 120 countries globally." - KNC


Hmmm.... wonder what Josh would have to say about that?
Personally, I call shenanigans.  5PH currently on the network, 70% = 3.5PH.  ~23% or 1.15PH is on the Ghash.io site, leaving .35PH for everyone else.  BFL has shipped more than Ghash.io at this point, meaning KnC couldn't have more than 54%.  So sad even the haters can't do proper math.


LOL! Amazing you have a one way shenanigans detector right? Where is your evidence to SUPPORT your claims they shipped more?


Let us focus on do they have the Monarch chip taped out... right?

Have they now in November taped out the chip they promised tape out in August?

That would be much more relevant a discussion. Have you called shenanigans on the Tape Out for the Monarch chip yet? Didn't we see something similar with the other ASICs?

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November 13, 2013, 09:40:01 AM
 #90

ROFL

KNC NEWS :::: https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-63


So BFL ... you get an Update ?
KNC too but knc think about an 16 / 20 nm Structur



"Currently almost 70% of all Bitcoins mined today are being created upon KnCMiner hardware, distributed to customers in over 120 countries globally." - KNC


Hmmm.... wonder what Josh would have to say about that?
Personally, I call shenanigans.  5PH currently on the network, 70% = 3.5PH.  ~23% or 1.15PH is on the Ghash.io site, leaving .35PH for everyone else.  BFL has shipped more than Ghash.io at this point, meaning KnC couldn't have more than 54%.  So sad even the haters can't do proper math.


LOL! Amazing you have a one way shenanigans detector right? Where is your evidence to SUPPORT your claims they shipped more?


Let us focus on do they have the Monarch chip taped out... right?

Have they now in November taped out the chip they promised tape out in August?

That would be much more relevant a discussion. Have you called shenanigans on the Tape Out for the Monarch chip yet? Didn't we see something similar with the other ASICs?
Since I can neither prove nor disprove tape out, I cannot make a call on it.  I laugh at you and your broken record bleating daily.  Personally, if I were Josh, I woukd never release the information if I had Tape Out 2 months ago just because people like you will keep the company name page one on here bleating about it.  You provide far more advertising due to lack of information than the ads you and others whine so much about being on the forums here.

As to evidence, use your common sense dude.  From the website where people had input their orders, it's clear that March/April were ~50% of BFL's total order book.  Since they are 1/2 way through April on the largest order items and many have already agreed that BFL's total orderbook was in the neighborhood of 3PH, simple logic shows that KnC's claims are complete and utter BS.  Several months ago people kept ascribing the hash provided by BFL to Avalon until they learned that Avalon failed to deliver.  Now KnC is making claims that are so patently false that people like you should be raving like the mad dogs you are over their lying, yet you take it in stride because your stuck on your favorite hate target.  Face it, you have a closed mind and can only hate on one target, so continue your free advertising and I'll continue laughing in the background.

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November 13, 2013, 10:13:29 AM
 #91

Common sense?

Ya that is proof.

Pfft.


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November 13, 2013, 11:37:10 AM
 #92

Yeah I'm sure pure irrational hate gets you by a lot better on a daily basis.

Anyway...

KNCs math is bad, but not sure about BFL shipping 3PH, the orignal lot of wafers were good for about .8 originally, then they had to double up the chips, and those ran out on about January orders, which was probably about a third of the way through. They re-ordered a LOT more, to cover the rest and the chip sales, but I'm thinking maybe only double the previous batch, which I'm thinking is gonna be in the region of 1.5PH altogether.

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November 14, 2013, 09:40:30 AM
 #93

It's entirely possible BFL has shipped less then 350Th/s.  That's about 6k 60Gh/s singles 70k Jalapenos.

Also, pretty much every claim BFL has made about shipping dates has been a lie, why would you belive their statements about shipping quantities?

BFL is still over a year late on huge number of orders, and most of their customers will never ROI.  KnC shipped me my Saturn 15 days earlier then promised, and I'm pretty sure it's already paid for itself in USD (which is what I used to buy it).  I know which company I have more confidence in.

the orignal lot of wafers were good for about .8 originally, then they had to double up the chips, and those ran out on about January orders, which was probably about a third of the way through. They re-ordered a LOT more, to cover the rest and the chip sales, but I'm thinking maybe only double the previous batch, which I'm thinking is gonna be in the region of 1.5PH altogether.

[citation required]

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November 14, 2013, 11:17:26 AM
 #94

It's entirely possible BFL has shipped less then 350Th/s.  That's about 6k 60Gh/s singles 70k Jalapenos.

Also, pretty much every claim BFL has made about shipping dates has been a lie, why would you belive their statements about shipping quantities?

BFL is still over a year late on huge number of orders, and most of their customers will never ROI.  KnC shipped me my Saturn 15 days earlier then promised, and I'm pretty sure it's already paid for itself in USD (which is what I used to buy it).  I know which company I have more confidence in.

the orignal lot of wafers were good for about .8 originally, then they had to double up the chips, and those ran out on about January orders, which was probably about a third of the way through. They re-ordered a LOT more, to cover the rest and the chip sales, but I'm thinking maybe only double the previous batch, which I'm thinking is gonna be in the region of 1.5PH altogether.

[citation required]

KnC bad math? I'd like them to justify their claim of 70% of the bitcoin being mined but the real issue here is that BFL has no CHIP for the Monarch. Given the limited specs they claim that this new offering will have, significant problems are already inherent in the design they propose specifically with the board and power and given what they faced already with the first ASICs they have made... well let us say BFL do not have the brainpower to avoid the obvious let alone the hidden problems at 28nm. The fact BFL has not taped out yet... oh boy this unit is a dog before it even gets to prototype testing sometime in what... February or March? Pissing away $4.6K USD on this unit is foolish and people need to be warned off it. Let us not worry so much about about bragging rights for the network let us just poke the Monarch with a stick and call it DOA already.

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November 14, 2013, 01:14:46 PM
 #95

It's entirely possible BFL has shipped less then 350Th/s.  That's about 6k 60Gh/s singles 70k Jalapenos.

Also, pretty much every claim BFL has made about shipping dates has been a lie, why would you belive their statements about shipping quantities?

BFL is still over a year late on huge number of orders, and most of their customers will never ROI.  KnC shipped me my Saturn 15 days earlier then promised, and I'm pretty sure it's already paid for itself in USD (which is what I used to buy it).  I know which company I have more confidence in.

the orignal lot of wafers were good for about .8 originally, then they had to double up the chips, and those ran out on about January orders, which was probably about a third of the way through. They re-ordered a LOT more, to cover the rest and the chip sales, but I'm thinking maybe only double the previous batch, which I'm thinking is gonna be in the region of 1.5PH altogether.

[citation required]

KnC bad math? I'd like them to justify their claim of 70% of the bitcoin being mined but the real issue here is that BFL has no CHIP for the Monarch. Given the limited specs they claim that this new offering will have, significant problems are already inherent in the design they propose specifically with the board and power and given what they faced already with the first ASICs they have made... well let us say BFL do not have the brainpower to avoid the obvious let alone the hidden problems at 28nm. The fact BFL has not taped out yet... oh boy this unit is a dog before it even gets to prototype testing sometime in what... February or March? Pissing away $4.6K USD on this unit is foolish and people need to be warned off it. Let us not worry so much about about bragging rights for the network let us just poke the Monarch with a stick and call it DOA already.

Then don't pre-order.  Anyone getting into Bitcoin can see that mining is a toxic industry and you would do much better for your money 90% of the time just purchasing BTC direct.  As-is, our mini-single is on track to ROI even with delays, so a big thanks to BFL for delivering. 

The sad fact is that everyone wants to bitch and moan about people lacking information - well shit, last I checked this is a competitive market, so generally speaking you never want to tip your hand to let others know where you are at (like AM, who seems to like to provide next to zero information before they drop overpriced hardware on the market).  As is, haterboi logic aside, BFL has delivered on every generation of hardware they have sold.  So the bullshit claims that you need to keep posting and starting new threads is absurd, if that were the logic we'd get a new Avalon thread every day or a new "My KNC doesn't work as promised" thread.

Some people have nothing better to do with their time than beat a dead horse.  If nothing else bitcointalk is evidence of that while the rest of the Bitcoin world evolves and grows up.
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November 14, 2013, 04:26:40 PM
 #96

It's entirely possible BFL has shipped less then 350Th/s.  That's about 6k 60Gh/s singles 70k Jalapenos.

Josh has claimed to ship 40k units, so I'd take that to be an upper-bound on what they've actually shipped.

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November 14, 2013, 04:41:01 PM
 #97

It's entirely possible BFL has shipped less then 350Th/s.  That's about 6k 60Gh/s singles 70k Jalapenos.

Josh has claimed to ship 40k units, so I'd take that to be an upper-bound on what they've actually shipped.

"unit" could have a lot of meanings.  It could mean a finished miner, or it could mean one 65nm chip.

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November 14, 2013, 04:41:35 PM
 #98

Here is Prototype #2

Seems like lots of little chips




Looks great. But the main advantage of Monarch had to be small number of of assembling steps. But with such amount of little chips it might be problem?
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November 14, 2013, 04:45:54 PM
 #99

50% of ghash.io is knc, i'm mining there too...
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November 14, 2013, 04:49:13 PM
 #100

Since I can neither prove nor disprove tape out, I cannot make a call on it.

Let's look at what they have said.

Quote
The initial process is what is called a bullet run, it will allow us to get a finished set of wafers in approximately 24 days from the date we tape out.

Quote
Current chip production has an expected delivery date in early/first half of December.

24 days + a few days for packaging, resulting in early December delivery. Sounds like they might have actually taped-out. In November. 3 months late!

Buy & Hold
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