Black Arrow R9-12 threads, DZ Miners Co-op. Plz move ?s and discussion here.

[Ridicuss]

I have a feeling that a lot of people were eying r17 as their alternative after the refund. Owing to the fact that it's closed (paused?) this could change things fairly significantly for some folks and may change their votes. I would propose, since the options have changed somewhat, that we perhaps reset the votes with the current information. I waited for news from bob but didn't anticipate r17 being closed.

My vote wont change. I did however point to R-17 as a possible avenue for others that wanted to continue to hash.  I am ready to live with this no matter the outcome.

[Hili]

I haven't voted yet and won't vote untill the last minute or untill I hear Bobsag3's opinion on the hashrate fixes.

[bcabes]

I have a feeling that a lot of people were eying r17 as their alternative after the refund. Owing to the fact that it's closed (paused?) this could change things fairly significantly for some folks and may change their votes. I would propose, since the options have changed somewhat, that we perhaps reset the votes with the current information. I waited for news from bob but didn't anticipate r17 being closed.

My vote wont change. I did however point to R-17 as a possible avenue for others that wanted to continue to hash.  I am ready to live with this no matter the outcome.

My vote will not change either. I know Bob is trying and I applaud his effort. But right now we are still at about 3.75 Ghash/share without the Jupiter as I don't think it is fair to count  it. This coop has been very fair in supplementing the bitcoin mining, but I don't think that is fair to expect or even request going forward.

 As far as R17 goes it sounds like the could be another option as soon as more details about the second batch of Black Arrows are figured out.

[sf2]

 

[bcabes]

I do not have shares here but in another DZ round. In that I proposed an idea but have gotten zero response. I expect the same here but will state it anyway.

I hesitated to post anything earlier as it is none of my business but didn't think about PM'ing DZ about it.

It would be an idea to sell this equipment and use the profits to buy more miners. Only one I know of that is in production is the Antminer S1 units. I didn't do the numbers but it might be a way to continue mining besides going into a new round that won't mine until a later date.

I don't want to make anything in this group buy vote more complicated than sell or don't sell. You idea of offering more mining options for units that are available now is a good one, but I would prefer to see that in a seperate group buy.

[philipma1957]

I do not have shares here but in another DZ round. In that I proposed an idea but have gotten zero response. I expect the same here but will state it anyway.

I hesitated to post anything earlier as it is none of my business but didn't think about PM'ing DZ about it.

It would be an idea to sell this equipment and use the profits to buy more miners. Only one I know of that is in production is the Antminer S1 units. I didn't do the numbers but it might be a way to continue mining besides going into a new round that won't mine until a later date.

400 x 287 = 114800 usd /880 a btc = 130 coins /4 = 32 x 180gh =  5.8th     rough math   but close .

I used 4 coins a unit but I left out the coins owed due to underpayment.

   don't forget we  may have as much as 1 week down time.

but if you told me  we go from 3.3 to 5.8   in a week it could work  of course I do not know if  the power works those units pull 400-500 watts each  so you are talking 32 x 500 =  12000-  16000 watts to get the 5.8th also it would be 32 units to maintain via ethernet

[bobsag3]

I have done this so far:
Sold a decent number of the non working boards to raise enough funds for 4 antminer blades, so an extra 800Ghash will be here next week.
I have 2 of my programmers looking into the miner code and the pi, to see if we can find the root cause and or fix it.
I will be adding my 2 nov KnCs for the temporary.

This should do:
~1.5thash of the working BF boards
~500ghash Oct KNC
1 3 modual nov knc ~500ghash
1 Fully working nov KnC ~650ghash
800Ghash of antminers next week

This would bring us up to just under 4 thash.

[philipma1957]

 well that does help.  are you still going to add the 8btc this 15th of dec payment? if you do and the short fall drops to 10-12 btc since nov 1st hashing.  we would be close to square 1.  if we hash at 4th instead of 3.3th  in 8 or 9 days the 10 or 12 btc short would slowly drop due the the extra hashing.  while I would have rather closing and taking 287 usd for each share and buying into r17 ,  your fix is getting closer to just as good a deal.. Bob thanks for working at this I know I type a lot of shit some good some bad on this thread I do really appreciate  your hard work at this.  best regards phil


also many thanks to dz, thomas and moonitator

[dbasql]

Bob,
You really are amazing and are working very hard and that is appreciated thank you very much!

Can we get a final tally on what you have a solid bid please? You mentioned you have several deals that you are working on. With that said now we have a lineup of several different vendors providing the hash rate or the proposed hash rate.

I don't think it is possible to select and educated vote without knowing three factors:

1) Are you planning on leaving this hardware allocated to this GB going forward to get around 4THs?

2) What is the price per share going to be? At this point we are one day away from the vote deadline we need to lock this in.

3) If there is a majority vote either way and not all the members vote will that vote still be valid?

I have asked this several times already and gotten vague responses at best. How can we vote on something without having the information/rules that the vote is going to determine?
I am not trying to be a dick but we are one day away we need this as soon as possible. If you are not the right person to ask can someone else from the GB leaders please chime in?
Thanks
DBA

[bcabes]

Bob,
You really are amazing and are working very hard and that is appreciated thank you very much!

Can we get a final tally on what you have a solid bid please? You mentioned you have several deals that you are working on. With that said now we have a lineup of several different vendors providing the hash rate or the proposed hash rate.

I don't think it is possible to select and educated vote without knowing three factors:

1) Are you planning on leaving this hardware allocated to this GB going forward to get around 4THs?

2) What is the price per share going to be? At this point we are one day away from the vote deadline we need to lock this in.

3) If there is a majority vote either way and not all the members vote will that vote still be valid?

I have asked this several times already and gotten vague responses at best. How can we vote on something without having the information/rules that the vote is going to determine?
I am not trying to be a dick but we are one day away we need this as soon as possible. If you are not the right person to ask can someone else from the GB leaders please chime in?
Thanks
DBA

I can appreciate your desire for clarity.

Thomas' response about question #3 was clarified here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=328996.msg3893700#msg3893700
The way I read that after the 15th if the majority voted to sell, no matter what percentage of the group buy that is, they will sell.

[dbasql]

Bob,
You really are amazing and are working very hard and that is appreciated thank you very much!

Can we get a final tally on what you have a solid bid please? You mentioned you have several deals that you are working on. With that said now we have a lineup of several different vendors providing the hash rate or the proposed hash rate.

I don't think it is possible to select and educated vote without knowing three factors:

1) Are you planning on leaving this hardware allocated to this GB going forward to get around 4THs?

2) What is the price per share going to be? At this point we are one day away from the vote deadline we need to lock this in.

3) If there is a majority vote either way and not all the members vote will that vote still be valid?[/s]

I have asked this several times already and gotten vague responses at best. How can we vote on something without having the information/rules that the vote is going to determine?
I am not trying to be a dick but we are one day away we need this as soon as possible. If you are not the right person to ask can someone else from the GB leaders please chime in?
Thanks
DBA

I can appreciate your desire for clarity.

Thomas' response about question #3 was clarified here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=328996.msg3893700#msg3893700
The way I read that after the 15th if the majority voted to sell, no matter what percentage of the group buy that is, they will sell.

Awesome thanks one down two to go

[bobsag3]

1) Are you planning on leaving this hardware allocated to this GB going forward to get around 4THs?

I promiced 3.3thash, so I have a duty to deliver at least that much. I will leave as much of the hardware on it as it necessary.
2) What is the price per share going to be? At this point we are one day away from the vote deadline we need to lock this in.

It really depends on the offer(s) we go with.

The most concrete offer I have had so far (IE I could take it now) would be 22.5k for 60 of the ~95 boards running right now. I have had several other offers for 800-1000 per board, but I have not heard back form then yet as far as total amounts and dates.



And yes, Im planning on adding the 8BTC in addition to this.

[bcabes]

1) Are you planning on leaving this hardware allocated to this GB going forward to get around 4THs?

I promiced 3.3thash, so I have a duty to deliver at least that much. I will leave as much of the hardware on it as it necessary.
2) What is the price per share going to be? At this point we are one day away from the vote deadline we need to lock this in.

It really depends on the offer(s) we go with.

The most concrete offer I have had so far (IE I could take it now) would be 22.5k for 60 of the ~95 boards running right now. I have had several other offers for 800-1000 per board, but I have not heard back form then yet as far as total amounts and dates.



And yes, Im planning on adding the 8BTC in addition to this.

To me this brings up more questions than it answers. Neither of those two offers are even close to the $287.50 per share vote that we have right now. If we only have 95 working boards those need to sell for about $1210 a board to get that rate per share.

1. What happened to the offer that we are voting on right now. Is that not an option anymore?
2. Are there more boards that are not running that were included in that number?

Thanks.

[philipma1957]

well I voted for 287 usd not 56 usd a share.  22.5k is 56 and some change per share.

I really do not want to complain but 56 is a no and 287 is a yes.   Asking us to vote on 180  then 287 and then saying you have 56 and maybe 28  in unsold really does not make much sense.

 Why vote and argue for days on numbers that have no meaning.   Look like I said if the shareholders of this group turned the pay outs into fiat they all made money myself included.  I am happy with making the money that we have made.  Not happy with a 180 offer going to 287 and now it is 56 with 28 or so left over.

Look this r9-r12 is a small part of dzcoop but there are 400 shares and changing the numbers that much looks really bad.

[bobsag3]

well I voted for 287 usd not 56 usd a share.  22.5k is 56 and some change per share.

I really do not want to complain but 56 is a no and 287 is a yes.   Asking us to vote on 180  then 287 and then saying you have 56 and maybe 28  in unsold really does not make much sense.

 Why vote and argue for days on numbers that have no meaning.   Look like I said if the shareholders of this group turned the pay outs into fiat they all made money myself included.  I am happy with making the money that we have made.  Not happy with a 180 offer going to 287 and now it is 56 with 28 or so left over.

Look this r9-r12 is a small part of dzcoop but there are 400 shares and changing the numbers that much looks really bad.

I did not change the numbers- those who made the offers at the time I offered to everyone have not gotten back to me, so I can only report the sure fire offers.

That is why the first priority is to get us back up to hashrate, and to payback the missing coins, as that will be the simplest way to up the USD/share.

Also technically R9-12 is only 80 boards, I am willing to sell all the ones I have to make it up (since they dont all get the promiced hashrate)

[philipma1957]

well I voted for 287 usd not 56 usd a share.  22.5k is 56 and some change per share.

I really do not want to complain but 56 is a no and 287 is a yes.   Asking us to vote on 180  then 287 and then saying you have 56 and maybe 28  in unsold really does not make much sense.

 Why vote and argue for days on numbers that have no meaning.   Look like I said if the shareholders of this group turned the pay outs into fiat they all made money myself included.  I am happy with making the money that we have made.  Not happy with a 180 offer going to 287 and now it is 56 with 28 or so left over.

Look this r9-r12 is a small part of dzcoop but there are 400 shares and changing the numbers that much looks really bad.

I did not change the numbers- those who made the offers at the time I offered to everyone have not gotten back to me, so I can only report the sure fire offers.

That is why the first priority is to get us back up to hashrate, and to payback the missing coins, as that will be the simplest way to up the USD/share.

Also technically R9-12 is only 80 boards, I am willing to sell all the ones I have to make it up (since they dont all get the promiced hashrate)

  Not complaining just frustrated.  And I am sure you are a lot more frustrated about this then I am.

[Ridicuss]

Again I take Philips side,
The vote was for what I quote below. Copy paste from the e-mail sent to vote on:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We have received an offer for the purchase of R9-12 it equates to $287.50 per share.

We are voting on selling Round 9-12, below is the vote form it will close and be calculated on December 14th, this vote is all or nothing if 51% of shares vote for selling its sold and BTC gathered in the sale will be sent to the normal collection address and distributed in the normal payout.

51% of shares that vote yes will equal a sale, OR 201 yes shares will become a sale.

51% of shares that vote no will equal no sale, OR 201 no shares will mean no sale."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That explicitly states $287.50, that is what I voted on. Now if that can not be obtained I would say the whole vote process was premature and now invalid. Of course if it is still $287.50 I would still maintain my sell position.

I'm not even frustrated and defiantly not angry, just stating my position.

Maybe I am misunderstanding the math of price per board and price per share. If so feel free to point me in the right direction.

Best Regards,

[Tiennou74]

1) Are you planning on leaving this hardware allocated to this GB going forward to get around 4THs?

I promiced 3.3thash, so I have a duty to deliver at least that much. I will leave as much of the hardware on it as it necessary.
2) What is the price per share going to be? At this point we are one day away from the vote deadline we need to lock this in.

It really depends on the offer(s) we go with.

The most concrete offer I have had so far (IE I could take it now) would be 22.5k for 60 of the ~95 boards running right now. I have had several other offers for 800-1000 per board, but I have not heard back form then yet as far as total amounts and dates.



And yes, Im planning on adding the 8BTC in addition to this.

Thanks for your efforts bobsag3

In order to sell, Let's get final offers and have a re-vote.

[dbasql]

Thank you for being transparent!
Ok this makes the decision very easy in my mind. Can we all agree to these terms?

• All current votes that have been submitted should be cancelled
• When the GB leaders get what they consider a concrete offer that offer should be submitted to the GB members as a new vote

This in no ones fault we have some hardware that is acting up. We have people busting balls to make up the difference and being transparent about the current offer on the table.
My thought was the hardware changed so it was logical that the bid would change. Based on all of this the current submitted votes should be null and void and the sale at least be postponed.
If we get a total hash rate that we can sell as a chunk even if it is desperate hardware that makes the total hash rate we should vote again.

We need input from Bob and from GB members on this please speak up.
DBA

[bobsag3]

Thank you for being transparent!
Ok this makes the decision very easy in my mind. Can we all agree to these terms?

• All current votes that have been submitted should be cancelled
• When the GB leaders get what they consider a concrete offer that offer should be submitted to the GB members as a new vote

This in no ones fault we have some hardware that is acting up. We have people busting balls to make up the difference and being transparent about the current offer on the table.
My thought was the hardware changed so it was logical that the bid would change. Based on all of this the current submitted votes should be null and void and the sale at least be postponed.
If we get a total hash rate that we can sell as a chunk even if it is desperate hardware that makes the total hash rate we should vote again.

We need input from Bob and from GB members on this please speak up.
DBA

This.
The offers when they were made to me were made with the time window to vote in mind- they just backed out on their end. I have a growing black list of such people.