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Author Topic: PRE [ANN] CureCoin development continues....  (Read 94545 times)
ButchHashidy
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December 27, 2013, 05:17:19 AM
Last edit: December 27, 2013, 06:02:40 AM by ButchHashidy
 #221

Have you all considered ProtoShare as a method of crowd funding (think p2p crowd sourcing like kickstarter).  They seem to be gaining traction in the decentralized autonomous community sector, and I think an idea of your magnitude would receive lots of attention!  You guys are running an incredibly noble cause, and a lot of us respect this project! Smiley

Hello, I apologize for coming late to the discussion.  I am one of the main developers at Folding@home.  Vijay Pande (Folding@home project leader) and I have been talking and he has given me permission to make some comments in this forum regarding F@H's position on CureCoin.  I can confirm that the CureCoin developers have spoken with Dr. Pande but we are not working closely with them at this point.  I do not profess to know precisely Dr. Pande's opinion so much of this is my own and I will take the blame.

I am very excited about the idea of finding a way for people to contribute to F@H while at the same time earning crypto coin, however, I am skeptical about CureCoin's implementation for a number of reasons and I urge the CureCoin devs to attempt to provide clear answers to the following questions:

1. Precisely how will CureCoin guarantee that people are fairly credited CureCoin for valid F@H work?  CureCoin devs have repeatedly asserted that we have solved this problem for them but I disagree.

I still don't think I understand why one can't just fake folding work and submit it?  Will peers be performing duplicate work to confirm?
Yup, there is some work duplication to be submitted, over the years Stanford has developed quite a good system for work validation. Smiley

The truth is, our system is not rock solid.  We depend on the users to mostly act in our interest and on some manual intervention.  This is also the sole reason that some of Folding@home is not Open-Source.  We have Open-Sourced several parts of F@H and are working on Open-Sourcing more.  We rely on obfuscated detection of tampering as well as the goodwill of our users to protect the scientific results and the point system.  We would like to be fully Open-Source but as of yet no one has figured out how to efficiently execute arbitrary code in an untrusted environment with hard guarantees of security.  BitCoin provides hard guarantees through cryptography and by relying on very specific code, i.e. SHA256 hashes.

We are currently only dealing with points which have no monetary value.  Regardless, some of our users still get very upset when we get it wrong, which does happen on occasion and people still do occasionally cheat.  We are quite worried about what would happen if the points had real value.

Is there any way you could use the Proof of Work system to have "miners" validate any results returned from nodes on F@H network?  After the work is done, is there a way to submit that work to the blockchain for verification?  And any fraudulent results would incur non payment to the party who submitted.  It would also mean 51% of the miners would have to agree on the fraudulent submission for it to be accepted.  Maybe in that way you could separate the important work of the nodes (solving real world problems to benefit humanity) from the verification system which is still rewarded for its purpose.  I don't know enough about folding at home to know if this would work, just a thought.

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December 28, 2013, 05:42:35 AM
 #222

Quote from: cygnusxi
Joe is an honor to have on this discussion he is responsible for the latest FAH client updates and contributed to the core17 development.
Thank you.

Joe C needs to clarify his involvement with FAH. He is outsourced by FAH to work on the client, and does not represent FAH. He runs his own company, and gets paid by FAH to make updates to the client. In fact I do believe Joe C might be getting an email from FAH for making these statements.  

I am a contractor.  I've been developing software for Folding@home for the last 5 years.  Vijay Pande is the leader of F@H and I asked his permission before making comments here.

Lets not over complicate this process, please read over my forum and ask me directly in a message  on my own forum ( http://curecoin.us ) or in an email rather then asking the community for answers.

Part of the point is that we would like to make it publicly clear that we are not yet endorsing CureCoin and are concerned about the points I raised earlier.  I think it would be better to continue the discussion here.
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December 28, 2013, 12:44:55 PM
 #223

We want curecoin!
Get it figured out and get it out asap!
I love F@H and I love crypto. Make it work!
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December 28, 2013, 12:48:34 PM
 #224

I think it would be better to continue the discussion here.

As a donator/investor I'd be happy to be able to read the discussion about solutions to these issues here, and I'm sure everyone else who donated/invested would be too.


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December 28, 2013, 06:23:24 PM
 #225

I think it would be better to continue the discussion here.

As a donator/investor I'd be happy to be able to read the discussion about solutions to these issues here, and I'm sure everyone else who donated/invested would be too.

I haven't donated but I have invested some of my computer's time into solving solutions. I am also interested in reading the discussion though because it lets me know how close to releasing curecoin the team actually is and what problems are left to be solved because it is released.

However, I'm interested about the cheating on points thing yet because I know some people take points seriously, even if they have no monetary value, and companies like EVGA give you some credit every month for the points you get towards buying a GPU, so the points have a little bit of monetary value their. I've never seen anyone be able to cheat on their points nor seen anyone do it now when Franko's are being given away and their is some monetary value attached. Do you have an explanation for how this would be possible or if anyone has ever done this.
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December 28, 2013, 09:49:37 PM
Last edit: December 29, 2013, 02:07:11 AM by jdbtracker
 #226

You have to create a super-folder, a Folding@Home Pool miner. If you make a massive simulation and someone is pumping in fake values they will get caught immediately, we could do it in quadrants maybe sections of a massive (n x n x n)n simulation with each node in the chain being a part of the larger simulation, bad values would not match. maybe even partition the jobs into threads so that each node is processing multiple projects at once? This would create multiple faulty computations appear on the larger grid, pinpointing nodes with failing GPUs or CPUs maybe even FPGA chips so that they can be re-assigned at the first sign of trouble.

I have a few ideas on how we could create a massive Hadoop cluster with Machine learning algorithms to properly connect everyone on the grid. Hell with this setup even the proximity of faulty or malicious nodes can be spotted by simply noticing if they are a botnet with multiple failing nodes or a deliberate attack, the machine wouldn't have to figure it out, it would just disconnect them from the grid.

The more Vectors we have to spot a faulty computation the better.

(n x n x n)n Grid to overlap computations.

Partitioned computations so no single node gets a single job, further dividing the possibility of damaging a major part of a computation.
Further partitioning through time as well can make the system more robust, you get to only complete a set size of a computation before you are handed a new one... further complexifying this Rubick's Cube. The system optimizations have to be automated.

Adding Machine Learning Algorithms to Data Mine all the connections for Performance data; This data will be important, it tells the system what a normal working system looks like, deviations are suspect and will be investigated with additional MLAs. This will be useful to analyze Folding Algorithms, Network Connections and how to route nodes for fastest performance, even further analysis metrics that can be open sourced so that anyone can view the metrics of the Grid to add that Human Intelligence component, we are masters at pattern recognition why not integrate it into it's working; The Machine will learn from us on how to best operate the network, by simply adding suggestions and giving the Network time to analyze controlled changes in it's parameters... a massive crowd sourced control room, maybe even a way for people to learn how the science of folding works so they can spot bad computations? The two systems would be separate, but the system could also be helped to compute the results to see if crowd sourced suggestions would have helped it deal with it's network problems for future use.

I believe in using every ounce of intelligence we can, and that requires a little more than computers, Each processor is suited to different computations just have to build it in a way that is accessible to all the architectures, even our own.

The back end for the points can be tied in directly with the Open Transactions Library for security of the point system, it would be tamper proof, all nodes would be servers for the points network, making any change would still require the concensus of everyone but without a massive blockchain. It could be implemented by writing a proper OT contract on how points are to be handled per computation and simply automate the dissemination directly from the OT server federation... the contract would be impossible to tamper with.

The contract made would give authority of the points calculated for a set time for the network to do the Data Mining, once done making sure everything is normal, it releases the points automatically.

Any further action if the calculation is proven to be faulty at a later time, we can give them a demerit point and work under the philosophy of, "Fool me once, shame on you! Fool me twice, shame on me."

A lot of the system could be directly accessible from the web if we convert it to JavaScript, a special subset asm.js, to deploy it across the web for all processing devices, so that even a cell phone can donate it's metric data for science.

here is an example so you can be amazed... all this is JavaScript. You will need Firefoxhttp://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/new/

Epic Citadel: Unreal Engine 3 Port to asm.js
http://www.unrealengine.com/html5/

BananaBread playable demo.
https://developer.mozilla.org/en/demos/detail/bananabread

Monster Madness game: Zombie asm.js port, test servers won't be back till january , so bookmark it for later.
http://www.monstermadness.com/

OpenRisc emulator with Internet access... it's old so use the console.
http://s-macke.github.io/jor1k/

and more demos.
https://github.com/kripken/emscripten/wiki

How hard could it be to implement all the security and folding at home software into a browser for instant access? We can even make it fully opensource so that it gets the input of thousands of dedicated volunteers, they will make the code unbreakable, if they can't break it by knowing how it's built, then no one can and when it's ready it will released for everyone to try to break, before integrating it permanently.

 

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January 01, 2014, 05:53:23 PM
 #227

It all looks interesting.
I might put this one in my pool @ luckyminers.com

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January 01, 2014, 06:03:46 PM
 #228

can i mine this already?

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January 03, 2014, 01:25:56 PM
 #229

Any news?
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January 05, 2014, 08:16:16 PM
Last edit: January 06, 2014, 08:53:10 PM by ChasingTheDream
 #230

I can honestly say this is the only coin I have a genuine interest in.  It is troubling to see all the messages essentially come to a stop.  I really hope this project gets done!

Edit:  Ok I can say there are a couple coins I'm interested in at this point but they have a similar theme which is to do something constructive as we try to make a little money at the same time.
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January 05, 2014, 08:17:20 PM
 #231

Im interested on few coins, but this is the one i would mine from day 1. Without a doubt.

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January 06, 2014, 07:37:16 AM
 #232

a more simpler way it would be for the curecoin to be a common coin
and with this to pay the conribution of computing hours.
something like ripples is doing recenlty with BOINC Wink

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January 06, 2014, 01:21:28 PM
 #233

We are wrapping up some security items, namely getting SSL for all sites that will handle user funds. A $5000 donation to Folding@Home has been made to help upgrade infrastructure. You can read more here: http://curecoin.us/index.php?topic=1088.0

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January 06, 2014, 01:40:36 PM
 #234

The cancer industry is literally 1/12th of the entire US economy.  It's a cash cow.  You can keep donating to bullshit charities and never get closer to a cure.  The American Cancer Society was founded by the Rockefellers in 1913 (same year as Federal Reserve) as a money laundering tool and a way to generate more wealth by playing on peoples emotions to donate for a "cure".  Donating to the same organizations for over a 100 years and no progress is made, you'd think people would catch on.

G. Edward Griffin (the guy who wrote The Creature From Jekyll Island) wrote a book exposing this and how you can protect yourself from cancer with Vitamin B-17.  It can also treat and eliminate cancer sometimes too.

It's in a book/documentary called World Without Cancer.  The documentary is available on YouTube in full length:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGsSEqsGLWM

Read the thousands of YouTube comments of people who have cured their cancer with this method.
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January 06, 2014, 02:07:58 PM
Last edit: January 06, 2014, 02:31:06 PM by primer-
 #235

10% to the devs + centralized system ? No thanks.
Edit: Flashing Stanford involvement sounds so scammy...
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January 06, 2014, 08:30:29 PM
 #236

10% to the devs + centralized system ? No thanks.
Edit: Flashing Stanford involvement sounds so scammy...
I dont think you understand the scope of the project here...


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January 08, 2014, 06:19:49 AM
 #237

99% of the people mining or using cryptos are not understanding its functionality.
they are just using it  Tongue

"killer app" of BTC = MasterCoin https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265488.0Mastercoin(A new protocol layer on top of Bitcoin)
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January 10, 2014, 08:19:21 PM
 #238

Hey everyone, quick update.

We've mainly been working on trying to make sure that WorkUnits can't be cheated, and looking into further integration with F@H.

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January 10, 2014, 08:44:11 PM
 #239

Hey everyone, quick update.

We've mainly been working on trying to make sure that WorkUnits can't be cheated, and looking into further integration with F@H.

Any idea when Cure will be out?
Thanks

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January 10, 2014, 08:45:17 PM
 #240

Hey everyone, quick update.

We've mainly been working on trying to make sure that WorkUnits can't be cheated, and looking into further integration with F@H.

Any update of this list?

Quote
TBA at launch time
Where do I start?
Wallet Windows binary:
Wallet Linux binary:
Wallet Mac OS X binary:
Wallet source code:
Launch ready mining pool #1: will be hosted by crypto-expert
Launch ready mining pool #2: will be hosted by decoinpools
Folding pool: TBA
Folding getting-started guide: http://curecoin.us/index.php?topic=9.0
Forum: http://www.curecoin.us
IRC Channel:
Block Explorers:
Exchanges:
Profitability Calculator:
Development Blog:
Video Tutorials:
Folding@Home Explanation:
Folding@Home Research:
Folding Team Statistics:
Signature advertisement banners:
Website advertisement banners:
Bounties:
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