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Author Topic: PRE [ANN] CureCoin development continues....  (Read 94545 times)
Vorksholk
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November 13, 2013, 01:44:29 PM
 #101

Can you please explain in detail the procedure how folding rewards will be paid to folders?

This looks like a very sensitive process to me, because as I understand it, it is the most centralized aspect of the coin: other research projects could be added into the coin to alleviate the reliance on FAH, but if the central payment system for folders goes down for whatever reason, it takes the coin with it.
Moreover I think one of the charms of crypto is that you put your trust in cold, hard protocol instead of people. No matter how honest and good-willed they are, I just don't feel it's crypto anymore if I have to rely on a handful of people for the system not to burst into flames...

I have exposed an idea on the Curecoin forum to decentralize the payments, similar to how mining rewards work, but that would involve giving a severe pounding on the web servers of FAH, and I have no idea whether they could withstand it or not. I suppose from their point of view it would look like a DDoS attack... Maybe the dev funds could be spent toward supplying them with adequate servers.

Good question! The folding, by nature, is fairly centralized. However, we have a great redundant setup. If the main folding pool were to go down, my backup folding pool based on entirely different code (in even a different language!) would snap up and take over the role. If mine were to go down, the CureCoin Dev team could easily make manual payouts until server status could be resumed.

If the folding aspect were to go down, the entire coin as a currency would continue to function in a decentralized manner, folders simply would be a tad inconvenienced when payouts might end up a few hours late. We are also working on having a third level of redundancy with the folding payout servers. Smiley

As for the people cashing out other's rewards, the idea is simply that, when you sign up to the folding site, you sign up to F@H at the same time, so you have control over the accounts in both places.

You bring up some interesting points (for anyone who wants to look: http://curecoin.us/index.php?topic=4.0) for a somewhat-decentralized folding payout system, I'm afraid it would cause excessive blockchain bloat though, unfortunately. I'd like to see what the other devs think though. Smiley

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CryptoBullion
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November 13, 2013, 01:56:44 PM
 #102

Well, team curecoin is definitely attracting some attention at this point.

A couple things id like to point out...

Its mentioned that if the folding payment system "goes down" then the coin is worthless. This however is very much not the case as i see it... let me explain

The system that i started for a folding payout is cloned onto multiple backup servers, and i guess someone just donated a new server to our cause, so... add another to that list.

Maintenance and upgrades, there will inevitably be periods were the folding pool may have to go down for up to 24 hours for upgrades etc.. During this down time points will still accumulate and the system will reward accordingly when it starts back up.

Vorksholk built his own system, completely different from mine, so that if there if a flaw found in my system, that flaw will not exist in his system. If my system is taken down somehow then his will take over.

And most important of all, there will never be a way to undo the research that was created in the wake of this coin, meaning, even if somehow the all the folding payment systems are destroyed, all the research that was done in the mean time will still be part of the coin, and that just cant be taken away.

To answer the post above about how exactly the funds are paid to the folders.. simple, we check with stanford to see if you actually are gaining points and how many, those points are calculated against everyone elses to get a balance for each user, and then those balances are sent to address the user signs up with.

What if FAH just disappears one day ( hello david copperfield )..... simple... i already have the seti plugin built and ready to deploy.....

When it comes to things that can go wrong, there are a few, when it comes to way to fix them, there are a lot, and we have been working around the clock for quite some time now to be sure that all these areas are covered.

Luckily FAH has been standing tall for ~13 years and i do believe they just did a server upgrade to the folding servers not too long ago.

With all the support, a huge dev team, and growing support, i dont think curecoin will be failing. to say the system can "just burst into flames" is a little bit of a stretch too since the coin base itself is SHA 256 POS, so far, sha coins have held up quite well.

As for the identity of cygnusxi being disclosed, there are plans in the works to publish a story about the "journey to curecoin".... Rest assured, you will get your answers. And you will get your curecoins too Smiley

wow 3 posts up while i wrote this.. guys the ! is there to be grammatically correct PRE [ANN] CureCoin-Fold Proteins, Cure Cancer, Make Money!

look at it this way PRE [ANN] CureCoin-Fold Proteins, Cure Cancer! Make Money,

! goes at the end of a statement !!!! lol Smiley

Fold Proteins, earn cryptos! CureCoin. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=268556.0
CryptoPCS.com Prepaid phone refills, post paid phone payments, and bill payments https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=285148.0
cygnusxi
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November 13, 2013, 02:01:15 PM
 #103

PRE [ANN] CureCoin-Fold Proteins, Make Money, Cure Cancer! NOV 16 GPU+CPU+ASIC - updated the title thread, hopefully that looks ok I still need to go get a morning coffee....

Fold Proteins, earn cryptos! CureCoin. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=603757 MergeFold with FoldingCoin https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=781352.0
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November 13, 2013, 02:12:54 PM
 #104

PRE [ANN] CureCoin-Fold Proteins, Make Money, Cure Cancer! NOV 16 GPU+CPU+ASIC - updated the title thread, hopefully that looks ok I still need to go get a morning coffee....

Awesome, good work sir!

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November 13, 2013, 03:09:53 PM
 #105

the folding pool should go live a day early so people can take time to get going with it. then 24 hours later the rewards start with the asic mining. The pool can just have a reset when the asic mining goes live.

the temp pool that is there right now will that turn into the live pool?

For instance if you have multiple machines would you need to install fah on all and use the same username? or will each one require a new user name to match with the folding pool?  for instance can 10 machines connect to fah with the same user and pass and will that all register on the folding pool you guys are creating?

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November 13, 2013, 03:23:34 PM
 #106

Wouldn't it have been better to just merge mine the coin into bitcoin and give less reward to that side?  I mean the whole thing about this coin truly is the folding side of it, but instead of maximizing the incentive to fold, you cut the potential folding economy in half.  The more money going to the folders the more people will fold and I believe the idea behind this to get more people to fold. Whereas if it were merge mined it would get mined regardless with a high hash rate. Maybe I'm over thinking it...

I agree. Have you considered PoS instead of PoW ?
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November 13, 2013, 03:25:28 PM
 #107

Thank you for your answers Vorksholk and Cryptobullion.

Let me clarify my position: I don't mean the currency will not work anymore if the folding payments stop, since as you pointed out, it is still a standard SHA-256 currency when you remove the folding part.
What I meant is that the added-value of Curecoin (vs Bitcoin for instance) will disappear. Of course, you can argue that what has been done cannot be undone. This is true, however it won't be able to generate any scientific value anymore. When this is the case, why would I want to support Curecoin? As you said, what has been done cannot be undone: nothing will be lost if I move on and switch to Bitcoin.

Regarding the payment of folders "going down", I don't mean temporarily, but forever. I don't question your integrity, but I don't like the fact that the possibility is there. I really dislike the fact that a crypto-currency cannot survive without its creators (and with the whole range of features, not just as yet another Bitcoin clone).
If the need ever arises someday, I suppose the community could still come to a consensus to fork the client then, but still.

I don't have the same objections with the centralization inherent to folding. I fully appreciate that scientific work has to be centralized, the most obvious reason being to check it against duplicates assigned to other computers. Moreover, as it was mentioned in the original post, more projects can be added.

When I asked about how the payments of folders are handled, I meant: where are the newly minted coins going? Are they going to a single address that will redistribute them? What if the private key of this address is compromised?
Vorksholkalso wrote:
Quote
As for the people cashing out other's rewards, the idea is simply that, when you sign up to the folding site, you sign up to F@H at the same time, so you have control over the accounts in both places.
So, a few questions:
- I sign up on FAH with the username Vorksholk just to troll you. Do you receive your rewards, my rewards (i.e.: 0 because I'm a troll) or both?
- If both, then why wouldn't I be able to register to your folding site with the username "anonymous", which is the username totaling the highest numbers of point on FAH?

Regarding the bloating of the block chain induced by decentralizing the payments of folders, I think it is not a problem. We are just talking about some transactions that will have to be added to the blockchain anyway, regardless of whether they are issued in a decentralized fashion or by the central authority. And if I recall well, the issue of storage of the blockchain was studied by Satoshi in the initial paper. The conclusion was that even without Merkle trees, it would not be a problem.

One more question: is the 50/50 ratio between miner rewards and folder rewards set in stone? My bet is that it will end up rewarding miners more if the coin goes mainstream, since there will be many more folders than miners (everybody has a computer, not everybody wants to invest into an ASIC). More people = less rewards.
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November 13, 2013, 03:28:28 PM
 #108

Folding payouts are done by our folding pool(s), which will count your stats, find what percent of total CureCoin folding efforts your folding represents, and pay out that percent of the daily 45% of the network Smiley

I don't get how that 45% the coins are emitted.
CryptoBullion
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November 13, 2013, 03:43:39 PM
 #109

the folding pool should go live a day early so people can take time to get going with it. then 24 hours later the rewards start with the asic mining. The pool can just have a reset when the asic mining goes live.

the temp pool that is there right now will that turn into the live pool?

For instance if you have multiple machines would you need to install fah on all and use the same username? or will each one require a new user name to match with the folding pool?  for instance can 10 machines connect to fah with the same user and pass and will that all register on the folding pool you guys are creating?

yes, u can connect as many machines as you want to one username. the temp pool will turn into a live pool... feel free to sign up and fold now if you like.... FYI there is no rewards in this pool, but u can certainly log in and start folding to make sure you're ready for launch day.

The Franko Folders pool is active and paying out at http://cryptobullionpools.com , you can earn frk there right now, while still preparing for launch of curecoin.

Fold Proteins, earn cryptos! CureCoin. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=268556.0
CryptoPCS.com Prepaid phone refills, post paid phone payments, and bill payments https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=285148.0
CryptoBullion
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November 13, 2013, 03:44:46 PM
 #110

Wouldn't it have been better to just merge mine the coin into bitcoin and give less reward to that side?  I mean the whole thing about this coin truly is the folding side of it, but instead of maximizing the incentive to fold, you cut the potential folding economy in half.  The more money going to the folders the more people will fold and I believe the idea behind this to get more people to fold. Whereas if it were merge mined it would get mined regardless with a high hash rate. Maybe I'm over thinking it...

I agree. Have you considered PoS instead of PoW ?

the coin base is going to be sha 256 POS

Fold Proteins, earn cryptos! CureCoin. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=268556.0
CryptoPCS.com Prepaid phone refills, post paid phone payments, and bill payments https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=285148.0
CryptoBullion
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November 13, 2013, 04:04:07 PM
 #111

Quote
So, a few questions:
- I sign up on FAH with the username Vorksholk just to troll you. Do you receive your rewards, my rewards (i.e.: 0 because I'm a troll) or both?
- If both, then why wouldn't I be able to register to your folding site with the username "anonymous", which is the username totaling the highest numbers of point on FAH?

1. I guess u could be nice to Vorksholk and donate your points to his name...... Vorksholk already has a big gpu rig.. if ur gonna donate points u should give them to cygnus and his one card setup lol.

2. Heh... like Im gonna spend all this time making this system and not have already thought to block payments to Anonymous Huh?


Good questions though... but as u see... we have taken this seriously...

Fold Proteins, earn cryptos! CureCoin. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=268556.0
CryptoPCS.com Prepaid phone refills, post paid phone payments, and bill payments https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=285148.0
arkanaprotego
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November 13, 2013, 04:12:09 PM
 #112

2. Heh... like Im gonna spend all this time making this system and not have already thought to block payments to Anonymous Huh?

Well, anonymous is the most obvious example, but I can basically choose anyone who does not have a Curecoin account and will therefore never complain about missing payments. If anonymous does not work, I can move down the list. PS3 for instance. You cannot block everybody.
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November 13, 2013, 04:31:02 PM
 #113

2. Heh... like Im gonna spend all this time making this system and not have already thought to block payments to Anonymous Huh?

Well, anonymous is the most obvious example, but I can basically choose anyone who does not have a Curecoin account and will therefore never complain about missing payments. If anonymous does not work, I can move down the list. PS3 for instance. You cannot block everybody.

go ahead and try... it wont work... ..... .... .....

yes, i can and have made it so that you can not just pull some random user from FAH network......

i see u have no faith in my coding skills.... yet i see you folding away on the team... why? youre not trying to scare off others so u can try to get all the curecoin for urself?

Fold Proteins, earn cryptos! CureCoin. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=268556.0
CryptoPCS.com Prepaid phone refills, post paid phone payments, and bill payments https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=285148.0
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November 13, 2013, 04:51:49 PM
 #114

Wouldn't it have been better to just merge mine the coin into bitcoin and give less reward to that side?  I mean the whole thing about this coin truly is the folding side of it, but instead of maximizing the incentive to fold, you cut the potential folding economy in half.  The more money going to the folders the more people will fold and I believe the idea behind this to get more people to fold. Whereas if it were merge mined it would get mined regardless with a high hash rate. Maybe I'm over thinking it...

I agree. Have you considered PoS instead of PoW ?

the coin base is going to be sha 256 POS

i missed something there from rumlazy when i made this comment...

Asics can not fold ..... so there is no more potential for folding that we are cutting out.... unless u have some kind of super space age asic that isnt really an asic and can switch from sha 256 to protein folding....

Fold Proteins, earn cryptos! CureCoin. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=268556.0
CryptoPCS.com Prepaid phone refills, post paid phone payments, and bill payments https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=285148.0
CryptoBullion
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November 13, 2013, 04:56:42 PM
 #115

2. Heh... like Im gonna spend all this time making this system and not have already thought to block payments to Anonymous Huh?

Well, anonymous is the most obvious example, but I can basically choose anyone who does not have a Curecoin account and will therefore never complain about missing payments. If anonymous does not work, I can move down the list. PS3 for instance. You cannot block everybody.

im trying to put 2 + 2 together here... u just registered your username yesterday.... have only 4 posts... and while i take into consideration what your 4 posts contain i come to the conclusion:
1. you are either from stanford here to get more info...
2. or ur here just to spread fud

i think its #1, i hope so.. cuz Fud is a waste of our time

Fold Proteins, earn cryptos! CureCoin. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=268556.0
CryptoPCS.com Prepaid phone refills, post paid phone payments, and bill payments https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=285148.0
arkanaprotego
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November 13, 2013, 05:06:10 PM
 #116

Haha Tongue

Don't take it against you, it is just that I wish to see the project succeed as well, so I'm probing for flaws. Since I can think of many and no details were given to reassure me, I can only speculate.

So yes, do expect me to look for flaws, but only so they can be addressed (if there are any in the first place). Errors can be made, but they need to be addressed properly. In open-source projects, I think it is everybody's duty to think critically.


As a side note, some people were talking about exploiting Gridcoin with modified clients, further up in the thread. Let me say that I am not convinced at all by the announced fix. Including the BOINC hash into the chain does not change the fact that this md5 hash is reported by the client. Yet nobody raised an eyebrow. Did I miss something important there, or is the fix still flawed?
CryptoBullion
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November 13, 2013, 05:36:43 PM
 #117

Haha Tongue

Don't take it against you, it is just that I wish to see the project succeed as well, so I'm probing for flaws. Since I can think of many and no details were given to reassure me, I can only speculate.

So yes, do expect me to look for flaws, but only so they can be addressed (if there are any in the first place). Errors can be made, but they need to be addressed properly. In open-source projects, I think it is everybody's duty to think critically.


As a side note, some people were talking about exploiting Gridcoin with modified clients, further up in the thread. Let me say that I am not convinced at all by the announced fix. Including the BOINC hash into the chain does not change the fact that this md5 hash is reported by the client. Yet nobody raised an eyebrow. Did I miss something important there, or is the fix still flawed?

ah, understood. And thank you for support to the project.  we can keep it a secret if ur from stanford Wink

As far as gridcoin, id prefer to discuss it on the gridcoin thread ...Ive not reviewed the code since the "patch".

i probably will not be visiting that thread.. i dont have much interest in it... cpu only  :/

Fold Proteins, earn cryptos! CureCoin. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=268556.0
CryptoPCS.com Prepaid phone refills, post paid phone payments, and bill payments https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=285148.0
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November 13, 2013, 05:53:14 PM
 #118

There are security options being worked on Gridcoin that will make it very difficult for anyone to tamper with the work from Boinc or the client. All of that stuff is being take care. I also like the idea of Curecoin and I hope it succeeds because the scientific advancements in protein folding have implications for everyone on the planet. So it is not just about money here. Even if you don't have anything to do with crypto you might benefit from the advancements that can come from these kinds of projects. So I am rooting for both to be picked up by the miner community and I hope both eclipse Bitcoin and Litecoin. And when Curecoin is launched I will put some of my mining rigs on it and give it some support too.

Haha Tongue

Don't take it against you, it is just that I wish to see the project succeed as well, so I'm probing for flaws. Since I can think of many and no details were given to reassure me, I can only speculate.

So yes, do expect me to look for flaws, but only so they can be addressed (if there are any in the first place). Errors can be made, but they need to be addressed properly. In open-source projects, I think it is everybody's duty to think critically.


As a side note, some people were talking about exploiting Gridcoin with modified clients, further up in the thread. Let me say that I am not convinced at all by the announced fix. Including the BOINC hash into the chain does not change the fact that this md5 hash is reported by the client. Yet nobody raised an eyebrow. Did I miss something important there, or is the fix still flawed?
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November 13, 2013, 07:49:56 PM
 #119

http://cryptobullionpools.com/

is the pool live right now because i don't see any stats showing now that i'm testing it out?

Is it in real time ?  or does it just update daily ?




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November 13, 2013, 08:00:13 PM
 #120

Announcing Curecoin!

Congrats, it looks like you've made a lot of progress!
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