BitBet Stole ~$7,000 from me (10 BTC)

[snackman]

This is stealing and the behavior of the owners/operators is outrageous, in my opinion. That policy is completely unjustifiable and I hope nobody uses this site until it's changed.

What's the best way to organize a boycott / raise awareness?

[TwinWinNerD]

Thank you OP for this thread. I will place my bets on other sites. This practice is shady as fuck.. Because even if you include a proper Fee the tx can be delayed quite some time at this moment

[snackman]

Thank you OP for this thread. I will place my bets on other sites. This practice is shady as fuck.. Because even if you include a proper Fee the tx can be delayed quite some time at this moment

No problem - what other sites would you recommend (besides Bets of Bitcoin)?

[MPOE-PR]

Right. Let's look at an example of this "I'm going to recklessly and stupidly throw my BTC around without the slightest clue of what I'm doing and then demand that the people who get hit with my projections fix my problems for me" at work:

23:20:00 dub: snackman: its unfortunate for you yes, perhaps you should try to understand what youa re dealing with next time

23:21:06 snackman: dub That's an unnecessarily moralistic approach, and furthermore a hallmark of self-affected geeks' fear/loathing of the mainstream, which I think is misplaced in this instance

23:21:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.0008353 = 10.4413 BTC [-]

23:21:24 mike_c: snackman: here it is without snark. say your bet lost. all you would have to do is send a different transaction with a fee that would get confirmed first and you didn't lose anything.

23:21:47 snackman: bitbets, if it would like to be a great service, should make itself easy to understand and operate, and not have stupid rules like this one

23:22:38 snackman: mike_c I don't understand

So that's:

1. Deciding you're ready for BTC either without knowing or without caring about transaction fees;
2. Deciding you're ready for betting without knowing or without caring about the way betting services work;
3. Betting when the resolution criteria being met was an imminent event;
4. Using Bets of Bitcoin without having done any due diligence, which would have revealed that they're pretty much useless, for reasons including their lack of using tx fees;
5. Not reading or not caring about BitBet's FAQ and the open, fully explained, warnings about the rare potential for this very situation on this very forum;
6. Insisting that it's other people who are stupid, such that those who were attempting to help you out lost interest in your ranting.

That you have the gall to suggest that it's someone other than yourself that dropped the ball is pretty incredible.

What's the best way to organize a boycott / raise awareness?

Something like this perhaps.

This is stealing and the behavior of the owners/operators is outrageous, in my opinion. That policy is completely unjustifiable and I hope nobody uses this site until it's changed.

Back on planet Earth, the reason you've not been used is that you have yet to change. GLWT.

[sangaman]

This is stealing and the behavior of the owners/operators is outrageous, in my opinion. That policy is completely unjustifiable and I hope nobody uses this site until it's changed.

What's the best way to organize a boycott / raise awareness?

I don't know what you can do besides threads like this, maybe take it to the scam accusation thread. Put this thread or others in your signature perhaps, use word of mouth.

Thank you OP for this thread. I will place my bets on other sites. This practice is shady as fuck.. Because even if you include a proper Fee the tx can be delayed quite some time at this moment

No problem - what other sites would you recommend (besides Bets of Bitcoin)?

Predictious.com offers something similar although I've never used them.

This is stealing and the behavior of the owners/operators is outrageous, in my opinion. That policy is completely unjustifiable and I hope nobody uses this site until it's changed.

Back on planet Earth, the reason you've not been used is that you have yet to change. GLWT.

I probably shouldn't even ask, but what does this mean? I don't get it.

I don't use your service(s) and I'm not here to get people to use any of mine, I just don't like honest people being screwed and then insulted to boot. Bitbet keeping these coins, which did not count towards any bet, is akin to stealing. The policy is grossly unjust and unreasonable, and putting the policy in the FAQ doesn't make it any better. 

I've never been affected by this policy, but I won't stand for others being screwed by it and you can count me as someone who will never use Bitbet or any other related services. I hope others follow suit. You can go ahead and keep lobbing cryptic insults at me and others who weigh in on the situation but it doesn't make you or Bitbet look any better.

[MoneyMorpheus]

1. Deciding you're ready for BTC either without knowing or without caring about transaction fees;
2. Deciding you're ready for betting without knowing or without caring about the way betting services work;
3. Betting when the resolution criteria being met was an imminent event;
4. Using Bets of Bitcoin without having done any due diligence, which would have revealed that they're pretty much useless, for reasons including their lack of using tx fees;
5. Not reading or not caring about BitBet's FAQ and the open, fully explained, warnings about the rare potential for this very situation on this very forum;
6. Insisting that it's other people who are stupid, such that those who were attempting to help you out lost interest in your ranting.

1.- BTC is a currency that has the option to send transactions without tx fees, that does not give you the right to keep his money.

2.- Betting services work in a way that you have to provide the bet and win in order to keep the money of the person that made the bet. If for some reason that was the user fault you failed to provide such bet, that does not give you the right to keep his money.

3.- If betting on an imminent event was that important the service provider should prevent it from being possible. So again, that does not give you the right to keep his money.

4.- Using a different betting service should be no reason for discrimination or give you the right to keep his money.

5.- FAQs are not user agreements. And even if this was in the user agreement, it still makes it illegal. The user bought a bet, but no bet was provided. After the transaction was confirmed you have no reason to keep the BTC since you didn't provide the bet. If the FAQs said that if you failed to provide tx fees you would be entitled to own his properties it would be as illegal as this. User's agreements are made in order to protect the provider from certain risks, but failing to read FAQs is no excuse for keeping his money. And since the term does not condition the receiving of such money this action is a theft. Why? Imagine this:

I make a website called tvrepairs.com. I advertise that I will fix any issue for 200 usd. In the user agreement at the bottom I put that if you don't call the technician by the name charles he will be charged an extra 1000 usd.

If the terms you apply to your customers harms them economically in an event that doesn't affect you economically then you are scamming people. I hope you realize this and act accordingly, to my point of view, he was stolen 6k usd.

6.- His ability to think or the fact that he call other people names does not give you the right to keep his money.


I'm hoping I'm clear enough for you to comprehend that. Even if the address from which his BTC where sent can't be the same than his receiving address, this should be sorted out with bets of bitcoin so that this user received his BTC back.

I would suggest the op to start a post in scam accusations or move this one there.

[TheDerrickJ]

Wow Snackman,

Thank you for raising awareness about this important issue. I'm sorry you had to pay the price of losing 10 BTC to frauds. Now the community knows. I hope this issue is resolved quickly. I would much prefer those who received your bitcoin simply return it to your address, since no services were rendered. It wouldn't seem right for a company to take 10 BTC after *no* services were rendered, and just say, "Oh well, it says in the fine print that we can steal from you. Sux! Lol!"

I just tweeted about it. Hopefully they will do what is right and return what is yours.

[snackman]

Right. Let's look at an example of this "I'm going to recklessly and stupidly throw my BTC around without the slightest clue of what I'm doing and then demand that the people who get hit with my projections fix my problems for me" at work:

23:20:00 dub: snackman: its unfortunate for you yes, perhaps you should try to understand what youa re dealing with next time

23:21:06 snackman: dub That's an unnecessarily moralistic approach, and furthermore a hallmark of self-affected geeks' fear/loathing of the mainstream, which I think is misplaced in this instance

23:21:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.0008353 = 10.4413 BTC [-]

23:21:24 mike_c: snackman: here it is without snark. say your bet lost. all you would have to do is send a different transaction with a fee that would get confirmed first and you didn't lose anything.

23:21:47 snackman: bitbets, if it would like to be a great service, should make itself easy to understand and operate, and not have stupid rules like this one

23:22:38 snackman: mike_c I don't understand

I would disagree that I hit anyone with my "projections" [sic], and that in fact I was harmed by your site's unfair policy, which you have yet to explain the rationale for. Also, taking my statement "I don't understand" out of context is pretty low.

So that's:

1. Deciding you're ready for BTC either without knowing or without caring about transaction fees;

I know and care about transaction fees, but Bets of Bitcoin did not properly operate my transaction.

2. Deciding you're ready for betting without knowing or without caring about the way betting services work;

You are right: I made a mistake by assuming that I was dealing with a reputable institution.

3. Betting when the resolution criteria being met was an imminent event;

If your site allows betting, people will bet.

4. Using Bets of Bitcoin without having done any due diligence, which would have revealed that they're pretty much useless, for reasons including their lack of using tx fees;

I am much more disappointed with BitBet's conduct than Bets of Bitcoin's.

5. Not reading or not caring about BitBet's FAQ and the open, fully explained, warnings about the rare potential for this very situation on this very forum;

How much bitcoin has BitBet taken in from this practice?

6. Insisting that it's other people who are stupid, such that those who were attempting to help you out lost interest in your ranting.

I have not insulted anyone.

That you have the gall to suggest that it's someone other than yourself that dropped the ball is pretty incredible.

You are outrageous.

I notice you deleted your erroneous suggestion that I cancel my bet by sending more bitcoin to you, which would not have arrived before bet closure and would also have been stolen.

[MPOE-PR]

Wow Snackman,

Thank you for raising awareness about this important issue. I'm sorry you had to pay the price of losing 10 BTC to frauds. Now the community knows. I hope this issue is resolved quickly. I would much prefer those who received your bitcoin simply return it to your address, since no services were rendered. It wouldn't seem right for a company to take 10 BTC after *no* services were rendered, and just say, "Oh well, it says in the fine print that we can steal from you. Sux! Lol!"

I just tweeted about it. Hopefully they will do what is right and return what is yours.

Quoting this inept sockpuppeting for the future lols.

You fucktards, seriously. Get a life and more importantly: get over yourselves.

I probably shouldn't even ask, but what does this mean? I don't get it.

It's a jab at your virginity.

[Han]

This is stealing and the behavior of the owners/operators is outrageous, in my opinion. That policy is completely unjustifiable and I hope nobody uses this site until it's changed.

What's the best way to organize a boycott / raise awareness?

In addition to the suggestions in this thread; under each bet on bitbet, there is an unmoderated discussion page where you can talk about this issue with other bitbettors.

[SgtSpike]

- MPOE-PR is the ONLY one in this thread suggesting that Bitbet is right in keeping the stolen money.
- MPOE-PR has some association with Bitbet, and this is likely the reason he is defending it.
- Bitbet has blatantly stolen $6,000 of BTC that does not belong to them.
- I would suggest finding out the details of who owns Bitbet and threatening a suit if they don't return the BTC.

[deadweasel]

This is stealing and the behavior of the owners/operators is outrageous, in my opinion. That policy is completely unjustifiable and I hope nobody uses this site until it's changed.

What's the best way to organize a boycott / raise awareness?

If you want to raise awareness, just link to the BitBet FAQ, which is public, which you should have read before sending 10 btc anywhere.  

The inability to own one's actions on this forum is at absurd proportions.  read the rules of gaming websites before you place your bets.  is that so insane?

[freethink2013]

bitbet won't last too long unless they change that rules and return the coins. They have a chance to get out of this gracefully.

mp might be saying it's all fine and dandy but it's not.

[sangaman]

1. Deciding you're ready for BTC either without knowing or without caring about transaction fees;
2. Deciding you're ready for betting without knowing or without caring about the way betting services work;
3. Betting when the resolution criteria being met was an imminent event;
4. Using Bets of Bitcoin without having done any due diligence, which would have revealed that they're pretty much useless, for reasons including their lack of using tx fees;
5. Not reading or not caring about BitBet's FAQ and the open, fully explained, warnings about the rare potential for this very situation on this very forum;
6. Insisting that it's other people who are stupid, such that those who were attempting to help you out lost interest in your ranting.

1.- BTC is a currency that has the option to send transactions without tx fees, that does not give you the right to keep his money.

2.- Betting services work in a way that you have to provide the bet and win in order to keep the money of the person that made the bet. If for some reason that was the user fault you failed to provide such bet, that does not give you the right to keep his money.

3.- If betting on an imminent event was that important the service provider should prevent it from being possible. So again, that does not give you the right to keep his money.

4.- Using a different betting service should be no reason for discrimination or give you the right to keep his money.

5.- FAQs are not user agreements. And even if this was in the user agreement, it still makes it illegal. The user bought a bet, but no bet was provided. After the transaction was confirmed you have no reason to keep the BTC since you didn't provide the bet. If the FAQs said that if you failed to provide tx fees you would be entitled to own his properties it would be as illegal as this. User's agreements are made in order to protect the provider from certain risks, but failing to read FAQs is no excuse for keeping his money. And since the term does not condition the receiving of such money this action is a theft. Why? Imagine this:

I make a website called tvrepairs.com. I advertise that I will fix any issue for 200 usd. In the user agreement at the bottom I put that if you don't call the technician by the name charles he will be charged an extra 1000 usd.

If the terms you apply to your customers harms them economically in an event that doesn't affect you economically then you are scamming people. I hope you realize this and act accordingly, to my point of view, he was stolen 6k usd.

6.- His ability to think or the fact that he call other people names does not give you the right to keep his money.


I'm hoping I'm clear enough for you to comprehend that. Even if the address from which his BTC where sent can't be the same than his receiving address, this should be sorted out with bets of bitcoin so that this user received his BTC back.

I would suggest the op to start a post in scam accusations or move this one there.

+1 this sums the situation up very well.

I probably shouldn't even ask, but what does this mean? I don't get it.

It's a jab at your virginity.

Amazing. And companies let you represent them? Make sure you pass that gem of an insult on to teenage bullies.

[freethink2013]

Wow Snackman,

Thank you for raising awareness about this important issue. I'm sorry you had to pay the price of losing 10 BTC to frauds. Now the community knows. I hope this issue is resolved quickly. I would much prefer those who received your bitcoin simply return it to your address, since no services were rendered. It wouldn't seem right for a company to take 10 BTC after *no* services were rendered, and just say, "Oh well, it says in the fine print that we can steal from you. Sux! Lol!"

I just tweeted about it. Hopefully they will do what is right and return what is yours.

Quoting this inept sockpuppeting for the future lols.

You fucktards, seriously. Get a life and more importantly: get over yourselves.

I probably shouldn't even ask, but what does this mean? I don't get it.

It's a jab at your virginity.

So if you want to bet 20 minutes before something and you include a transaction fee but it doesn't get enough confirmations, they can just keep it?

You are discrediting yourself and the business you represent with this crazy idea. Fuck you and everything you are involved with.

[SgtSpike]

This is stealing and the behavior of the owners/operators is outrageous, in my opinion. That policy is completely unjustifiable and I hope nobody uses this site until it's changed.

What's the best way to organize a boycott / raise awareness?

If you want to raise awareness, just link to the BitBet FAQ, which is public, which you should have read before sending 10 btc anywhere.  

The inability to own one's actions on this forum is at absurd proportions.  read the rules of gaming websites before you place your bets.  is that so insane?

If I pick up someone's wallet off the street, is it right for me to spend money from the credit card inside of it?

That's essentially what Bitbet is doing, except they know exactly who the money belongs to and have every opportunity to return it.  They can write in their FAQ that it is ok for them to kill anyone who loses a bet, but that doesn't make killing someone who loses a bet right or legal.

[freethink2013]

This is stealing and the behavior of the owners/operators is outrageous, in my opinion. That policy is completely unjustifiable and I hope nobody uses this site until it's changed.

What's the best way to organize a boycott / raise awareness?

If you want to raise awareness, just link to the BitBet FAQ, which is public, which you should have read before sending 10 btc anywhere.  

The inability to own one's actions on this forum is at absurd proportions.  read the rules of gaming websites before you place your bets.  is that so insane?

And if pay pal decided to change their terms and conditions to say:

1. Any money sent will actually be sent to Peter Thiel.

Would that be legal.

I'd argue that these so called terms and conditions at bitbet aren't actually terms and conditions at all but a "FAQ" http://bitbet.us/faq/#151

In fact where are their terms and conditions? You can't just stick something in a faq and call it terms and conditions.

[snackman]

This is stealing and the behavior of the owners/operators is outrageous, in my opinion. That policy is completely unjustifiable and I hope nobody uses this site until it's changed.

What's the best way to organize a boycott / raise awareness?

If you want to raise awareness, just link to the BitBet FAQ, which is public, which you should have read before sending 10 btc anywhere.  

The inability to own one's actions on this forum is at absurd proportions.  read the rules of gaming websites before you place your bets.  is that so insane?

BitBet's policy is insane.

FYI: deadweasel is associated with BitBet (below quoted from BitBet IRC transcript).

23:07:25deadweasel:yes, learn to read the manual before inserting coin*.
23:07:42snackman:deadweasel it's a dumb way to set up the website
23:08:01deadweasel:you're a dummy for not reading the rules. it's clear. i read them, i won lots.

[freethink2013]

This is stealing and the behavior of the owners/operators is outrageous, in my opinion. That policy is completely unjustifiable and I hope nobody uses this site until it's changed.

What's the best way to organize a boycott / raise awareness?

If you want to raise awareness, just link to the BitBet FAQ, which is public, which you should have read before sending 10 btc anywhere. 

The inability to own one's actions on this forum is at absurd proportions.  read the rules of gaming websites before you place your bets.  is that so insane?

No, BitBet's policy is insane.

FYI: deadweasel is associated with BitBet (below quoted from BitBet IRC transcript).

23:07:25deadweasel:yes, learn to read the manual before inserting coin*.
23:07:42snackman:deadweasel it's a dumb way to set up the website
23:08:01deadweasel:you're a dummy for not reading the rules. it's clear. i read them, i won lots.

Again that's their faq not their t&c. Did the op AGREE to the FAQ. Did he fuck.

[MPOE-PR]

In addition to the suggestions in this thread; under each bet on bitbet, there is an unmoderated discussion page where you can talk about this issue with other bitbettors.

This is working admirably well. I think MP likes you even.

bitbet won't last too long unless they change that rules and return the coins. They have a chance to get out of this gracefully.

mp might be saying it's all fine and dandy but it's not.

BitBet will be here long after you're long gone. It's just the way these things work.

- MPOE-PR is the ONLY one in this thread suggesting that Bitbet is right in keeping the stolen money.
- MPOE-PR has some association with Bitbet, and this is likely the reason he is defending it.
- Bitbet has blatantly stolen $6,000 of BTC that does not belong to them.
- I would suggest finding out the details of who owns Bitbet and threatening a suit if they don't return the BTC.

Dude, seriously? He? Still? Lurk moar.