NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[inkadnb]

Yeah I'd also like to add that the huge rich addresses get an incredibly unfair advantage for mining. I understand it's PoS but with these crazy distributions the rich addresses are nearly always going to be the ones mining the blocks and reaping the rewards, this makes it even worse than BTC in a mining sense because with BTC you could at-least buy some decent mining equipment and get something.

However, even with pooled mining, in PoS you're not likely to get much unless your pool has a "rich" address participating, and even then you're really only benefiting THEM instead of the reverse.

Buy expensive mining equipment for btc
Buy a few million Nxt for mining
The guys with 40mill nxt are just like the guys with rooms full of asics mining in a pool and grabbing every block.

Yeah except it was MUCH cheaper for them AND they'll never have to worry about the difficulty going up for them!

[2Kool4Skewl]

Yeah I'd also like to add that the huge rich addresses get an incredibly unfair advantage for mining. I understand it's PoS but with these crazy distributions the rich addresses are nearly always going to be the ones mining the blocks and reaping the rewards, this makes it even worse than BTC in a mining sense because with BTC you could at-least buy some decent mining equipment and get something.

However, even with pooled mining, in PoS you're not likely to get much unless your pool has a "rich" address participating, and even then you're really only benefiting THEM instead of the reverse.

Buy expensive mining equipment for btc
Buy a few million Nxt for mining
The guys with 40mill nxt are just like the guys with rooms full of asics mining in a pool and grabbing every block.

Yeah except it was MUCH cheaper for them AND they'll never have to worry about the difficulty going up for them!

High risk = high reward.  Low risk = low reward.

Cheapness is relative.

[abctc]

Perhaps some of the major stake holders will shut off their mining in order to promote their own currency?

- good idea!
I'm early adopter, but not major stakeholders :-(( , nevertheless I keep my stake shutted.

[BitThink]

Could anybody back me up and send me some coins.. i want to start with mining 


15825363546145396108

Please forget about mining in this stage, cause it's totally waste of your time, energy, and electricity With small amount, you wait years for one block and that block most likely has 0 transaction fees. This is not a coin for mining, and if you are interested please come back when the exchange function is implemented.

[2Kool4Skewl]

There has to be a reason other than speculation/investment for people to buy it. Considering all coins lie in the hands of early adaptors with super low price, there's almost no hope for the price to increase significantly in the beginning, so there has to been something for people to join.

Let's hope the exchange function is implemented as soon as possible, cause that could be the only valid reason for others to join, and then all the coins become the shares of an exchange, and all early adaptors are like the initial investors. Before that, Nxt will not grow like other currencies due to its unique PoS system.

It does have usefulness outside of "speculation/investment".

There is an exchange.

[2Kool4Skewl]

Please forget about mining in this stage, cause it's totally waste of your time, energy, and electricity With small amount, you wait years for one block and that block most likely has 0 transaction fees. This is not a coin for mining, and if you are interested please come back when the exchange function is implemented.

How does it waste time?  You have to start your client and let it run in the background.

How does it waste energy?  How much does 2% of your processing power cost you in electricity?  Even if you ran the client 24 hours a day for a year, I doubt it would cost you more than $1.

[2Kool4Skewl]

Perhaps some of the major stake holders will shut off their mining in order to promote their own currency?

This is stupid.  Do you want an insecure network?

[BitThink]

For all those who are interested in mining, have you calculated what's the potential income of mining now? Let's say there are 1000 active accounts now, and each of them do 10 transactions (sending) a day. That's 10000 transactions a day, so it's around 10000 nxt in transaction fee.  There are 1 billion Nxt in total, let's assume half of them are mining. Then what you can expect is 10K * (your holding) / 0.5 Billion  =  your holding * 0.00002. That's 0.002% daily and 0.73% yearly (1.00002 ^ 365 = 1.0073266).

Apparently, before the exchange function is implemented and the volume is high enough, there's no point to mine now. Please remember there's no new coins are created in mining, only transaction fees.

[ImmortAlex]

Is there any ability to see blocks (or their count at least) I generate?

PS: block explorer from 1st post is dead.

[BitThink]

Please forget about mining in this stage, cause it's totally waste of your time, energy, and electricity With small amount, you wait years for one block and that block most likely has 0 transaction fees. This is not a coin for mining, and if you are interested please come back when the exchange function is implemented.

How does it waste time?  You have to start your client and let it run in the background.

How does it waste energy?  How much does 2% of your processing power cost you in electricity?  Even if you ran the client 24 hours a day for a year, I doubt it would cost you more than $1.

Let's assume you are using laptop, about 30w in almost idle mode. It uses 0.03 * 24 * 365 = 262.8 Kwh, and for those who pay $0.1/ Kwh, it is $26.2.

In the same time, if you have 100K nxt, you can mine less than 800 nxt a year and that's $0.8.

[ImmortAlex]

BitThink, I do not see transaction fee in you calculations. Am I miss something?
Btw, you can run Nxt server only when you do some work on you laptop just not to waste any Watts at all.

[BitThink]

BitThink, I do not see transaction fee in you calculations. Am I miss something?
Btw, you can run Nxt server only when you do some work on you laptop just not to waste any Watts at all.

Thank you for the reminding. Clarified that the transaction fee is 10K nxt for 10K transactions.

Yes, of course, but you never need to keep it on 24 hours * 365 days for your work. Moreover, my point is even there's 0 cost, 0.7% per year is not attractive at all.

That said, I am just saying it is not worthwhile to mine until the exchange is implemented and running well. A well run exchange can change everything.

[Come-from-Beyond]

I did a quick blockchain analysis.

4021 first blocks analyzed.

209 blocks were generated by accounts with chance to generate < 1%

The top 10 lucky accounts:

7165466424489448293   :   0,036%
14622282743318888961   :   0,057%
6471097994069300157   :   0,109%
2556221026631726577   :   0,113%
12692935506199079028   :   0,12%
12692935506199079028   :   0,12%
6471097994069300157   :   0,125%
7325120753602111352   :   0,133%
7325120753602111352   :   0,139%
7085298282228890923   :   0,147%

Raw data - https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/67242472/4021.txt
Sorted from Block 1 to Block 4021.
Formatted - Account ; Effective_balance_at_that_block ; Number_of_coins_that_are_allowed_to_generate_blocks

Pay attention that if coins moved to a brand new account they can't mine for the next 1440 blocks. Effective balance doesn't include coins that can't be used for mining.

Edit: Right now only 835M can mine blocks, so ur chance is higher than u expected.

[BitThink]

I did a quick blockchain analysis.

4021 first blocks analyzed.

209 blocks were generated by accounts with chance to generate < 1%

The top 10 lucky accounts:

7165466424489448293   :   0,036%
14622282743318888961   :   0,057%
6471097994069300157   :   0,109%
2556221026631726577   :   0,113%
12692935506199079028   :   0,12%
12692935506199079028   :   0,12%
6471097994069300157   :   0,125%
7325120753602111352   :   0,133%
7325120753602111352   :   0,139%
7085298282228890923   :   0,147%

Raw data - https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/67242472/4021.txt
Sorted from Block 1 to Block 4021.
Formatted - Account ; Effective_balance_at_that_block ; Number_of_coins_that_are_allowed_to_generate_blocks

Pay attention that if coins moved to a brand new account they can't mine for the next 1440 blocks. Effective balance doesn't include coins that can't be used for mining.

Interesting finding.

Nonetheless, don't misinterpreting it. It does not mean that we may have a higher chance to mine a block than the probability calculated. If we check the lottery history, we will find a lot of winners won the prize with probability less than 0.00000001%. They are just lucky

I am not against mining, though. Let's just mining for the safety of this project or just to be fun. Don't expect any profit though.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Interesting finding.

Nonetheless, don't misinterpreting it. It does not mean that we may have a higher chance to mine a block than the probability calculated. If we check the lottery winner, we will find a lot of winners won the prize with probability less than 0.00000001%.

Aye. If u have only a few coins, leave them mining and one day u'll see a jackpot.

[pandaisftw]

I'm getting pretty tired of seeing post saying that the distribution is unfair.

Listen... Anybody could have invested in the beginning.  If you thought Nxt was such a great idea, you should have invested.  Nobody prevented you from investing.  If you still think Nxt is a great idea, then you can invest in Nxt right now by purchasing them like everyone else.

If you are upset about your mining rate, then go buy some Nxt.  This is no different than any other currency.  When I wanted more hashpower for scrypt coins, guess what?  I went and bought more GPUs.  If you want more hashpower with Nxt, then go buy some Nxt.  Nobody gave me free GPUs (hashpower) for scrypt, but initial investors here have been giving out free Nxt (hashpower).

The problem is not whether the distribution is fair or unfair, but how the coins be redistributed to more people.
In a PoW system, the coins are distributed to the miners in tens or even hundreds of years. In a pure PoS system, however, all coins are distributed at once in the beginning.

Some one argue Satoshi may hold 1M BTC, but even it is true that's only 1/21, and even now there're still 10M BTC there for mining and everyone has their chance. Mining are not cheap due to the hashing cost, but miners pay the mining equipments and electricity suppliers instead of the early adaptors cause these coins do not belong to anyone. These newly mined coins have high cost, so the added supply will not drive down the price too much. Even though most of coins go to the miners, the large number of BTC of early adaptors are still the main threat to the BTC price now.

In a pure PoS system without any new coins created, however, all coins belong to the early adaptors. Mining does not create new coins, and changes only negligible redistribution. All redistribution happen when people buying coins from the early adapters. In the early stage, that means huge supply versus tiny demand and the price could hardly increase. Meanwhile, due to the low price, the majority of coins will stay in the early adaptors who expects higher price. This could hinder the redistribution and may be very dangerous for a new coin. In this sense, it is quite similar to a 100% pre-mined crypto-currency. The dye not because of unfairness, but because of no redistribution.

Therefore, it's not fair or unfair, but how to survive for a pure PoS with all coins given at once in the beginning. There has to be a reason other than speculation/investment for people to buy it. Considering all coins lie in the hands of early adaptors with super low price, there's almost no hope for the price to increase significantly in the beginning, so there has to been something for people to join.

Let's hope the exchange function is implemented as soon as possible, cause that could be the only valid reason for others to join, and then all the coins become the shares of an exchange, and all early adaptors are like the initial investors. Before that, Nxt will not grow like other currencies due to its unique PoS system.

I would also like to add that getting NXT is not a pure speculation vehicle. From what I've seen, NXT has the potential to be extremely useful (for example, colored coins) without consuming large amounts of CPU power and electricity. That potential, and the good work being done by the devs, is what drew me to NXT in the first place.

[inkadnb]

Pay attention that if coins moved to a brand new account they can't mine for the next 1440 blocks. Effective balance doesn't include coins that can't be used for mining.

Why do I need to wait 1440 blocks? I transferred my entire balance to a new account after it was mentioned that VPSs were insecure.

[Sharky444]

I would donate some Nxt if it was easier to send them. With the current client it's a matter of luck to get a transaction going, so I'm waiting for a stable client.

- strange. I've sent 59 transactions so far, and have no such problems at all.
You should send couns only when your client is mining ("You can generate the next block in dd days hh hours mm minutes ss seconds" above the "Recent blocks [n]" vidget).

I do it when it's mining, and still at least 60% go to Nirvana on any Windows client I try. "Money was sent" message, but no transaction is created. Waiting 1 hour and still nothing there. If I try long enough it goes thru. On my Linux VPS all works well, but I would prefer a local client.

The transactions should work 99.99% of the time, and if not there should be an error message, instead of "Money was sent".

[Sharky444]

I am getting very bored with NXT.  I have not mined a single block.

Perhaps some of the major stake holders will shut off their mining in order to promote their own currency?

Otherwise, it is very boring!

This would make actually sense. Especially the unclaimed Nxt account SHOULD NOT BE MINING.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Pay attention that if coins moved to a brand new account they can't mine for the next 1440 blocks. Effective balance doesn't include coins that can't be used for mining.

Why do I need to wait 1440 blocks? I transferred my entire balance to a new account after it was mentioned that VPSs were insecure.

It's special protection. Ask Cunicula for more details.