NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[landomata]

We need the Voting System for a fully functional and efficient NXT Asset Exchange.

Then, as Come-from-Beyond has been trying to insinuate repeatedly, we can vote AGAINST anything that can do harm to NXT.

At that point you've opened Pandoras Box already.

Let me play Mr. 91% big-stake with his assets spread over multiple accounts. I want to rule NXT.

Act 1 - First vote: Should we use voting in general? I vote yes - and win
Act 2 - Second vote: Should we have a 95% rule for certain rules? Nah... - I win.
Act 3 - Third vote: Should we have a 90% rule for certain rules? Sounds good. I win.
Act 4 - I am now in control over NXT.

Can you please suggest another way we can implement collective decision making so that we can have the Asset Exchange up and running at the earliest.

[CoinBuzz]

Anybody Selling NXT, I'm buying.

PM Me with your price & amount.

[laowai80]

I have a fear, I guess not everyone will login account and vote. Proportion to the vote may be low

This is inevitable and is ok.

What should really be feared is building a system similar to current debt overladen western democracies, with corrupt politicians racing to promise more to whoever votes for them. As a result, there are families living on doles from generation to generation and not even planning to go to work. But there is no free cheese. Those 'free' goodies are financed by tax payers, borrowed from future generations. And this system is on the road to ruin and speeding down that slope. NXT wants to be built the same way? I doubt it. It will not survive if built the same way. Populist democracies have a short lifespan.

'1 NXT = 1 vote' is the only approach ensuring long-term stability of the system.

After all, it's as simple as - the more NXTs you have, the more vested interest you have in survival of NXT and work more for it to survive, so have more rights to voice your opinion. Really no brainer here.

[landomata]

'1 NXT = 1 vote' is the only approach ensuring long-term stability of the system.

CORRECT cuz if I sell my Nxt...I SHOULD NOT be allowed to vote even though i still have my account.

[coolfish]

I have a fear, I guess not everyone will login account and vote. Proportion to the vote may be low

This is inevitable and is ok.

What should really be feared is building a system similar to current debt overladen western democracies, with corrupt politicians racing to promise more to whoever votes for them. As a result, there are families living on doles from generation to generation and not even planning to go to work. But there is no free cheese. Those 'free' goodies are financed by tax payers, borrowed from future generations. And this system is on the road to ruin and speeding down that slope. NXT wants to be built the same way? I doubt it. It will not survive if built the same way. Populist democracies have a short lifespan.

'1 NXT = 1 vote' is the only approach ensuring long-term stability of the system.

I agree with these theories, but we need to test the practical application.

[marcus03]

So, what's good about people with no assets voting in populist politicians who promise them free goodies, thus bankrupting the system by making it to borrow more money from future generations? This system is bound to collapse sooner rather than later.

So, voting based on the number of assets is the most stable kind of democracy.

In your first paragraph you are describing an effect of democracy on an economic system.

In your second paragraph you seem to say that the architecture of the economic system defines if we have democracy.

Please do not call voting based on NXT assets democracy. It is capitalism.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy:
Democracy is a form of government in which all eligible citizens participate equally—either directly or through elected representatives—in the proposal, development, and creation of laws. It encompasses social, economic and cultural conditions that enable the free and equal practice of political self-determination.

Regarding a better approach: I currently don't have one, but I'll think about it. I'm currently thinking "One man, one vote" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_man,_one_vote), but I see the implemtation problems with this.

[laowai80]

Please do not call voting based on NXT assets democracy. It is capitalism.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy:
Democracy is a form of government in which all eligible citizens participate equally—either directly or through elected representatives—in the proposal, development, and creation of laws. It encompasses social, economic and cultural conditions that enable the free and equal practice of political self-determination.

Regarding a better approach: I currently don't have one, but I'll think about it. I'm currently thinking "One man, one vote" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_man,_one_vote), but I see the implemtation problems with this.

There are different types of democracy, what you quoted is just one of them, and not the best one. I briefly outlined above why it's not the best one. If you're interested to know more, you should google different types of democracy, start with Greeks.

"One man, one vote" is a populist kind of democracy with a short historic lifespan.

Capitalism has nothing to do with it. Yes, it's capitalism, why, what do you suggest? We build communism here? One big country tried and got burned, thanx but no thanx.

[coolfish]

Voting system, similar to the voting shares of company stock rights. .

[laowai80]

Voting system, similar to the voting shares of company stock rights. .

Yes, the more shares = the more votes, because you invested more and own more of the company. Time tested approach.

[landomata]

Voting system, similar to the voting shares of company stock rights. .

Yes, the more shares = the more votes, because you invested more and own more of the company. Time tested approach.

Agree.

Edit: You will be able to buy shares/tokens on the Nxt Asset Exchange...vote based on how much shares/tokens you have.

like a real life Stock exchange....that's why we are EXCITED!

[coolfish]

Voting system, similar to the voting shares of company stock rights. .

Yes, the more shares = the more votes, because you invested more and own more of the company. Time tested approach.

But I worry about the votes being kidnapped by largest shareholder..

[BloodyRookie]

A voting system with a few stake holder that possess more than 50% of the nxt coins would turn nxt into an oligarchy.

[marcus03]

Then we can vote IN FAVOR, for example, of forbidding the Voting System to be used for anything other than NXT Asset Exchange operations!  

I am Mr. 91% big-stake. You might believe that there is such an initial voting. But in fact, I decide, because I hold 91% of all voting slips.

Capitalism has nothing to do with it. Yes, it's capitalism, why, what do you suggest? We build communism here? Cheesy One big country tried and got burned, thanx but no thanx.

Ehhh... no, not at all. I'm just saying that you shouldn't name something democracy which is in fact capitalism.

[laowai80]

But I worry about the votes being kidnapped by largest shareholder..

Nobody can put in more votes than they own NXTs.

I hope. If there are no bugs in software allowing that

This is up to CfB to clarify.

[landomata]

Voting system, similar to the voting shares of company stock rights. .

Yes, the more shares = the more votes, because you invested more and own more of the company. Time tested approach.

But I worry about the votes being kidnapped by largest shareholder..

Edit:

How?.... no one Nxt account currently owns more than 5% of Nxt.....stakeholders can own more than one accounts....the possibility is there....but the major need for this is the NXT ASSET EXCHANGE....and that is different because each company is different and one person can own a company on the exchange if he wants.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Well, guys. Something should be fixed in Nxt protocol to attract more girls. I would pay 1K for a good idea.

Girls like shopping, we better open more online shops, possibly, attract offline ones!



13792774143018875909

Right! 1K sent to 13792774143018875909.

[laowai80]

A voting system with a few stake holder that possess more than 50% of the nxt coins would turn nxt into an oligarchy.

Are they organized into cartel yet?

Really, you guys are putting a cart before the horse.

What I mean is, distribution is going on right now.

By the end of 2014 NXT will be more distributed than bitcoin.

What else do you want?

Keep buying from these big stake holders, they're selling and will own less and less NXTs with time. They won't hold on to all of them for life. They want to cash out and buy themselves nice goodies.

NXT is only 1 month old, you can't expect it evenly distributed after just 1 month.

[smartwart]

good morning!

see there is still ongoing discussion about VS. - more and more with the necessary complexity.

lets implement VS for Assets and go on discussion about global (public) voting.
At least there is no pressure to come with that feature as fast as possible.

[chanc3r]

I imagine its trivial to write a script to deposit 1 NXT in many accounts and turn 50k NXT * 1 account 1 vote into 1 NXT * 50k account 1 vote.

Everyone loves that this space is anonymous etc and then talks about 1 person 1 vote - hilarious - THIS MEANS YOU NEED TO BE IDENTIFIED

One Account one Vote doesn't help because of the example above.

We need a simple system how about this;

When the Vote is set up the majority level for the vote is set whether its 51%, 75%, 90% etc
You can even vote to set these levels  by simple majority initially, and later votes to change them

The important bit:

1. You Vote - you pay a fee which weights the vote (like the alias), not your NXT balance.
2. The network sums the weighted votes and the majority level is met or not met.
3. The Fee - the network takes the block fee for the vote which is all the fee's contributed and distributes it EQUALLY to ALL of the members who voted (one member should not get this bounty)

So if you really want to win a vote by paying for it (that doesn't happen in the real world does it ) it can be done but it gets expensive.
And people potentially get rewarded for taking part in making the decisions to evolve NXT.

Maybe a bit of a crazy idea but was trying to think how to deal with a level of balance in an anonymous environment and NXT has to feature in weighting it somehow.

[coolfish]

But I worry about the votes being kidnapped by largest shareholder..

Nobody can put in more votes than they own NXTs.

I hope. If there are no bugs in software allowing that

This is up to CfB to clarify.

I think in addition to the system of voting system, it should create a poll in the forum at the same time.
Evaluation of the final results


Edit:If only a single voting system, the voting results will be controled by a few people.
For example, now, 75% NXT lies in the initial hoarder.