Please Read!! Help Stop This Madness.

[laowai80]

What you see is potential value , but that is just a dream. Alt coins price is now driven by the media madness around bitcoin and people who can't get into bitcoin mining and turn to alts hoping to get rich. Alt coins have no use right now , you can't do anything with them , just trade them to BTC.

Equally true for bitcoin.
Right now where I am I can't do nothing with bitcoin in real life, except trade it online and hope it grows more, just like alt-coins. If there are some places on the internet that I can spend it on, it'd actually be cheaper for me right now to just pay by paypal. Until bitcoin is accepted to buy groceries, its potential value is not realized, it's all just a dream, a dream that cryptos can grow more and be widely adopted and used to buy things in real life. So no difference with alt-coins here.

[niothor]

What you see is potential value , but that is just a dream. Alt coins price is now driven by the media madness around bitcoin and people who can't get into bitcoin mining and turn to alts hoping to get rich. Alt coins have no use right now , you can't do anything with them , just trade them to BTC.

Equally true for bitcoin.
Right now where I am I can't do nothing with bitcoin in real life, except trade it online and hope it grows more, just like alt-coins. If there are some places on the internet that I can spend it on, it'd actually be cheaper for me right now to just pay by paypal. Until bitcoin is accepted to buy groceries, its potential value is not realized, it's all just a dream, a dream that cryptos can grow more and be widely adopted and used to buy things in real life. So no difference with alt-coins here.

At my grandpa house I don't have phone signal not internet access.
Does that make cell phones useless?

[laowai80]

At my grandpa house I don't have phone signal not internet access.
Does that make cell phones useless?

Can you make a phone call from your grandpa's house with a (put any brand name here) cellphone any better than with a (put any other brand name here) cellphone?

[niothor]

At my grandpa house I don't have phone signal not internet access.
Does that make cell phones useless?

Can you make a phone call from your grandpa's house with a (put any brand name here) cellphone any better than with a (put any other brand name here) cellphone?

Only if I also drive 5 km uphill.
Also , I guess you got my point.
There are places where bitcoin can be used in shops and restaurants and places where no. Altcoins have no such places.

[polarhei]

Well, who have not started on or before the 2nd Era, then these people are normally failed to reach the need.

Currently there are lots of plans, executing for years, If you like to stop the bitcoin madness. Then Qe must be stopped to adjust the status.

[laowai80]

At my grandpa house I don't have phone signal not internet access.
Does that make cell phones useless?

Can you make a phone call from your grandpa's house with a (put any brand name here) cellphone any better than with a (put any other brand name here) cellphone?

Only if I also drive 5 km uphill.
Also , I guess you got my point.
There are places where bitcoin can be used in shops and restaurants and places where no. Altcoins have no such places.

I got your point. But you don't want to get mine.

Right now I'd have to drive a few hours to find a place that accepts bitcoins. It could be a bit easier to spend bitcoins it if you're in a big city, but still you'd have to do some searching for such a restaurant for example.
Same on Internet, Paypal is the king right now, that's a fact, everyone accepts it, bitcoin is accepted by maybe 1% of merchants, maybe even much less. Will Paypal be king in a few years? We shall see.

You see, the bitcoin is paving the way for alt-coins. What took bitcoin 4-5 years to achieve, alt-coins will achieve in 1 year, just because there is already mindset about cryptos and a lot of code written initially for bitcoin, which can be adapted for alt-coins with slight modifications, and it will be adapted. There are many talented, motivated and financially backed programmers who can quickly set up all required framework for other alt-coins once bitcoin really goes mainstream. Whereas for bitcoin the time to receive larger adoption was/is counted in years, for alt-coins it will be months, alt-coins piggy-backing on bitcoin's success. Is that good or bad? It's just the way it will be, we'll have to accept it.

There is no such thing as unanimity, and when you have two persons, you have more than 1 opinion usually, imagine there are millions of people in the internet industry, they simply can't all agree on 1 and only payment system, it's utopia. Especially since bitcoin network can only service 7 transactions per second for the entire world until they do something to the blockchain.

[niothor]

At my grandpa house I don't have phone signal not internet access.
Does that make cell phones useless?

Can you make a phone call from your grandpa's house with a (put any brand name here) cellphone any better than with a (put any other brand name here) cellphone?

Only if I also drive 5 km uphill.
Also , I guess you got my point.
There are places where bitcoin can be used in shops and restaurants and places where no. Altcoins have no such places.

I got your point. But you don't want to get mine.

Right now I'd have to drive a few hours to find a place that accepts bitcoins. It could be a bit easier to spend bitcoins it if you're in a big city, but still you'd have to do some searching for such a restaurant for example.
Same on Internet, Paypal is the king right now, that's a fact, everyone accepts it, bitcoin is accepted by maybe 1% of merchants, maybe even much less. Will Paypal be king in a few years? We shall see.

You see, the bitcoin is paving the way for alt-coins. What took bitcoin 4-5 years to achieve, alt-coins will achieve in 1 year, just because there is already mindset about cryptos and a lot of code written initially for bitcoin, which can be adapted for alt-coins with slight modifications, and it will be adapted. There are many talented, motivated and financially backed programmers who can quickly set up all required framework for other alt-coins once bitcoin really goes mainstream. Whereas for bitcoin the time to receive larger adoption was/is counted in years, for alt-coins it will be months, alt-coins piggy-backing on bitcoin's success. Is that good or bad? It's just the way it will be, we'll have to accept it.

There is no such thing as unanimity, and when you have two persons, you have more than 1 opinion usually, imagine there are millions of people in the internet industry, they simply can't all agree on 1 and only payment system, it's utopia. Especially since bitcoin network can only service 7 transactions per second for the entire world until they do something to the blockchain.

Well you don't get mine either.
Bitcoin is getting more and more merchants abroad. Altcoins? Litecoin? How many merchants do deal in altcoin?
At one time it will be easier even for you (and me) to use bitcoins in our daily life , wait for it.
Bitcoin is progressing in this way. Alt coins? Never heard of an altcoin doing something like that , premine the stuff , heavy spam on this forum , drive the price up and ...hope it will raise up enough to dump all and get a house and a car.
Most altcoins have no dev team , no true supporters , no plan . nothing.
Bitcoin has been tested with crashs,  small fork , doubt any altcoin will survive this.

[laowai80]

We could debate this till the end of the world, I suggest we take a rest

[niothor]

We could debate this till the end of the world, I suggest we take a rest

I wish I could go on and  live that long.

[jballs]

Three economists went out hunting and came across a large deer. The first economist fired, but missed, by a meter to the left. The second economist fired, but also missed, by a meter to the right. The third economist didn't fire, but shouted in triumph, "We got it! We got it!"

[niothor]

Three economists went out hunting and came across a large deer. The first economist fired, but missed, by a meter to the left. The second economist fired, but also missed, by a meter to the right. The third economist didn't fire, but shouted in triumph, "We got it! We got it!"

And then the deer went to a bank and got a new mortgage.

[deisik]

Only if I also drive 5 km uphill.
Also , I guess you got my point.
There are places where bitcoin can be used in shops and restaurants and places where no. Altcoins have no such places.

Actually, in real life it makes no significant difference. There is infinity between 1 and 0 (especially if you try to calculate how many times one is bigger than zero), but if you need a million there's not much difference between them though...

[jballs]

Three economists went out hunting and came across a large deer. The first economist fired, but missed, by a meter to the left. The second economist fired, but also missed, by a meter to the right. The third economist didn't fire, but shouted in triumph, "We got it! We got it!"

And then the deer went to a bank and got a new mortgage.

A group of economists was hiking in the Alps. After several hours they became hopelessly lost. One of them studied the map for some time, turning it up and down, sighting distant landmarks, consulting his compass and the sun's location for that time of day. Finally he said, "OK, see that big mountain over there?"

"Yes," answered the others eagerly.

"Well, according to this map, we're standing on top of it."

[jones31]

Only if I also drive 5 km uphill.
Also , I guess you got my point.
There are places where bitcoin can be used in shops and restaurants and places where no. Altcoins have no such places.

Actually, in real life it makes no significant difference. There is infinity between 1 and 0 (especially if try to calculate how many times one is bigger than zero), but if you need a million there's not much difference between them...

I think is thread has derailed a bit. We went from madness to some economical arguments , jokes and now this.
Tend to agree to your post , but the fact that was I guess pointed is that there is something you can do other that trade with bitcoins and it can't be with some alt coins.
Which altcoins , there are too many for me right now to understand which is better and which is a failure.

[niothor]

Three economists went out hunting and came across a large deer. The first economist fired, but missed, by a meter to the left. The second economist fired, but also missed, by a meter to the right. The third economist didn't fire, but shouted in triumph, "We got it! We got it!"

And then the deer went to a bank and got a new mortgage.

A group of economists was hiking in the Alps. After several hours they became hopelessly lost. One of them studied the map for some time, turning it up and down, sighting distant landmarks, consulting his compass and the sun's location for that time of day. Finally he said, "OK, see that big mountain over there?"

"Yes," answered the others eagerly.

"Well, according to this map, we're standing on top of it."

No offense , but this one was better

[PenAndPaper]

Three economists went out hunting and came across a large deer. The first economist fired, but missed, by a meter to the left. The second economist fired, but also missed, by a meter to the right. The third economist didn't fire, but shouted in triumph, "We got it! We got it!"

Recently i read the reason why economic teachers are among the highest paid ones among the academic society. Because we want them to stay on campus. 

[darkmule]

It is not for no reason that economics is known as the dismal science.

[cryptocoinmkt.com]

I'm going to make this as straight forward as possible.

About Me:

Noel Arteaga
Illinois State University
Managerial Economics/ Business Administration

Graduate Dec 14, 2013

I am currently finishing up my undergraduate degree in Managerial Economics.

I have a week and a half to go (WHOOP).

I have focused my studies this past year on Bitcoin.

My senior project is on Bitcoin.

The whole economics department knows me as a Bitcoin fanatic.

Here is the problem:

The entire economics department refuses to accept that bitcoin has any credibility.

The professor who is overseeing my senior project is constantly discrediting it via corrections on my work in progress.

I have gone to entire economics department to talk about the economics of bitcoin and the outcome is always the same:

 They see bitcoin as a fad with no credibility.

The department keeps arguing against bitcoin with these points.

1) Bitcoin is deflationary and it will cause it to fail. (facepalm)

2) Bitcoin is doomed to fail because people hoard it instead of spending it. No Economy exist.(facepalm x2)

3) Nobody uses Bitcoin for anything (Not Mainstream=Not real???) (Facepalm x 1,000,000)


My Goal: Raise Awareness about Bitcoin. Starting with the economics department and then expanding to the whole campus then the whole town.

I will presenting my senior project next week with the hopes of raising awareness.

I have also been putting up flyers with websites that inform people about bitcoin. The feedback from the student body has been overwhelming! I get roughly 20 emails a week from people that see the flyers and wish to learn more! Currently working on a twitter feed and facebook page.

My biggest piece of evidence: I have established an online wallet and provided the address to whole economics department and information on how to check it.

I hope to raise awareness by getting people to send donations with messages supporting Bitcoin, messages that help dis-spell the BS people that "know economics" think about Bitcoin.

 It not about the amount of donation its about the messages that can be attached to the transaction!

I want to shove it in their face (in a passive way) that not only is Bitcoin alive but growing and growing fast. I want to show the world the power of bitcoin!


Bitcoin/Message Address: 1Sk9iEy1UN1q5TkzmX71ayxy2kQEmkb84 

Please Keep the messages clean, I want bitcoin to seem as credible as possible.

This is my attempt to prove who I am. If you have any questions please PM me!

http://s10.postimg.org/dvaxnjgid/Classes.jpg
http://s9.postimg.org/6sdjgbjyz/image.jpg

Aaaaah stupid, rigid mainstream academic professors.   They truly believe the crap they are teaching like "Efficient market theory" and "Modern Portfolio Theory".  Dumbass professors don't realize that what they are teaching has been put there by the "powers that be" (Wall Street and the Fed) to suppress the masses and indoctrinate students to be "zombies"...follow the status quo.

Good luck getting these professors to wrap their heads around Bitcoin, they can't see past their "ego" of all the antiquated economic crap they have learned.

Hope you can convince at least one professor that Bitcoin is not a fad.

[subcoin]

1) Bitcoin is deflationary and it will cause it to fail.
2) Bitcoin is doomed to fail because people hoard it instead of spending it. No Economy exist.
3) Nobody uses Bitcoin for anything (Not Mainstream=Not real???)

1) How exactly being deflationary would cause it to fail?
    Is that according to some economic theory for currency?
    Whatever that theory is - it does not apply.
    Explanation: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Deflationary_spiral

2) Yes, most people hoard, but some spend.
    Those who spend are enough to gave it growth.
    Being able to transfer value electronically, creates market by itself

3) 80k transactions a day is hardly "nothing"
    Not Mainstream=Not real -> It is correct for "standard" currency.
    But Bitcoin is not standard, it is not "default" currency of any state
    Therefore, requirement of being "mainstream" does not apply.

In general, it would seem that your professors are applying the same conditions to Bitcoin as to "government issued" currency.
It is not. And because it is not, most of current economic theories, regarding currencies, do not apply to Bitcoin.
I think the word "currency" triggers a set of prejudice limitations in their heads.
I would rather use "electronic value storage and transfer system" instead of currency.
That would instantly nullify their "growth", "adaptation", "deflation" claims.
Because how do these claims apply to the "electronic value storage and transfer system" (EVSTS) as opposed to "currency"?
Does the EVSTS need to be mainstream to succeed?
Does the EVSTS need to grow to succeed?
Does the EVSTS need all of its members sending money all the time?

[deisik]

I would rather use "electronic value storage and transfer system" instead of currency.
That would instantly nullify their "growth", "adaptation", "deflation" claims.
Because how do these claims apply to the "electronic value storage and transfer system" (EVSTS) as opposed to "currency"?
Does the EVSTS need to be mainstream to succeed?
Does the EVSTS need to grow to succeed?
Does the EVSTS need all of its members sending money all the time?

And the most important question that you somehow left out of consideration here is what does this all have to do with economics?