Why Bitcoin will collapse in price.

[Erdogan]

See you on the moon guys, you, in a refurbished Apollo, I, in my shiny 10 bedroom intergallactic starship with maximum improbability drive.

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[porc]

"Money is not an abstract unit of account, divorceable from a concrete good; it is not a useless token only good for exchanging; it is not a "claim on society"; it is not a guarantee of a fixed price level. It is simply a commodity. It differs from other commodities in being demanded mainly as a medium of exchange."

MURRAY ROTHBARD

[porc]

"Norway's director general of taxation, Hans Christian Holte, said the currency "doesn't fall under the usual definition of money." The Norwegian government instead decreed Bitcoin to be an asset upon which capital gains tax can be charged. Bloomberg News says profits from Bitcoin will fall under the wealth tax, and that losses can be deducted. Holte also said there will be a 25 percent sales tax for businesses."

http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/15/5214772/bitcoin-not-real-money-says-norway-government

Lol. Another government using the tactic I predicted. Pay capital gains taxes on your gains= prohibiting bitcoin as a medium of exchange.

[diedicar]

"Money is not an abstract unit of account, divorceable from a concrete good; it is not a useless token only good for exchanging; it is not a "claim on society"; it is not a guarantee of a fixed price level. It is simply a commodity. It differs from other commodities in being demanded mainly as a medium of exchange."

MURRAY ROTHBARD

which kind of commodiy?
1 a rare
2 a useless/superfluous one
3 a "shining"/visible/autoadvertising one

If you do not get that historically this kind of commodities were choosen, you do not get bitcoin.

[porc]

 Absolutely useless "money" as it is a lousy store of value and its only advantage (low transaction costs) is being killed by capital gains taxes and regulation. Capital gains taxes and regulation are a death threat to bitcoin.

Bitcoin: useless tokens masquerading as money. What a joke.

[diedicar]

Absolutely useless "money" as it is a lousy store of value and its only advantage (low transaction costs) is being killed by capital gains taxes and regulation. Capital gains taxes and regulation are a death threat to bitcoin.

sorry, you see any legal alternative to capital gains taxes? The market is comparasion between alternatives.

[porc]

Absolutely useless "money" as it is a lousy store of value and its only advantage (low transaction costs) is being killed by capital gains taxes and regulation. Capital gains taxes and regulation are a death threat to bitcoin.

sorry, you see any legal alternative to capital gains taxes? The market is comparasion between alternatives.

As long as capital gains taxes are on the book, we wont have media of exchange competition. Not that bitcoin tokens would win out. Real money (gold silver and maybe platinum) that can be transferred digitally is the way of the future. Real money can only come, once the public realizes that government is not the answer. Maybe some people will back digital money by some other resource.

[diedicar]

Absolutely useless "money" as it is a lousy store of value and its only advantage (low transaction costs) is being killed by capital gains taxes and regulation. Capital gains taxes and regulation are a death threat to bitcoin.

sorry, you see any legal alternative to capital gains taxes? The market is comparasion between alternatives.

As long as capital gains taxes are on the book, we wont have media of exchange competition. Not that bitcoin tokens would win out. Real money that can be transacted digitally is the way of the future. Real money can only come, ones the public realizes that government is not the answer.

as long as we have a GAIN, taxes ar not a problem.

[porc]

Absolutely useless "money" as it is a lousy store of value and its only advantage (low transaction costs) is being killed by capital gains taxes and regulation. Capital gains taxes and regulation are a death threat to bitcoin.

sorry, you see any legal alternative to capital gains taxes? The market is comparasion between alternatives.

As long as capital gains taxes are on the book, we wont have media of exchange competition. Not that bitcoin tokens would win out. Real money that can be transacted digitally is the way of the future. Real money can only come, ones the public realizes that government is not the answer.

as long as we have a GAIN, taxes ar not a problem.

False. Reread the threat. There is a reason why we dont have media of exchange competition.

[porc]

These "low transaction costs" were a joke from the beginning, as nobody wants to hold onto bitcoins (tokens masquerading as money).

The spread (buying and selling bitcoins for dollars) and high volatility result in high! transaction costs guys.

I explained this in the OP already. And dont assume that the volatility will stop: Artificial agreements to trade useless tokens that nobody wants, for goods are always volatile. Its in the nature of this artificial agreement (I have adressed this already: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361037.msg3926046#msg3926046). Also, most of the people buying bitcoins are speculators, buying because they think they will get rich.

[diedicar]

These "low transaction costs" were a joke from the beginning, as nobody wants to hold onto bitcoins (tokens masquerading as money).

The spread (buying and selling bitcoins for dollars) and high volatility result in high! transaction costs guys.

I explained this in the OP already. And dont assume that the volatility will stop: Artificial agreements to trade useless tokens that nobody wants, for goods are always volatile (I have adressed this already). Its in the nature of this artificial agreement. Also, most of the people buying bitcoins are speculators, buying because they think they will get rich.

volatility depends on market participation. With 400 billions market cap we'll have a foreign currency like volatility. For sure.

[porc]

These "low transaction costs" were a joke from the beginning, as nobody wants to hold onto bitcoins (tokens masquerading as money).

The spread (buying and selling bitcoins for dollars) and high volatility result in high! transaction costs guys.

I explained this in the OP already. And dont assume that the volatility will stop: Artificial agreements to trade useless tokens that nobody wants, for goods are always volatile (I have adressed this already). Its in the nature of this artificial agreement. Also, most of the people buying bitcoins are speculators, buying because they think they will get rich.

volatility depends on market participation. With 400 billions market cap we'll have a foreign currency like volatility. For sure.

You wont reach this market cap (at least not for a sustained period of time, I could only imagine a blow off bubble top). Worthless tokens will never become money, as they dont fullfill the requirments of money. I have adressed this already:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361037.msg3926046#msg3926046

[deisik]

These "low transaction costs" were a joke from the beginning, as nobody wants to hold onto bitcoins (tokens masquerading as money).

The spread (buying and selling bitcoins for dollars) and high volatility result in high! transaction costs guys.

I explained this in the OP already. And dont assume that the volatility will stop: Artificial agreements to trade useless tokens that nobody wants, for goods are always volatile (I have adressed this already). Its in the nature of this artificial agreement. Also, most of the people buying bitcoins are speculators, buying because they think they will get rich.

volatility depends on market participation. With 400 billions market cap we'll have a foreign currency like volatility. For sure.

You wont reach this market cap (at least not for a sustained period of time, I could only imagine a blow off bubble top). Worthless tokens will never become money, as they dont fullfill the requirments of money. I have adressed this already:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361037.msg3926046#msg3926046

You could earn real money, porc. Will gold ever give you such an opportunity to get rich? If you knew in advance that bitcoin price would skyrocket (bubble or no bubble), would you then take this chance or rather continue to sling mud at bitcoin here?

[Peter Lambert]

These "low transaction costs" were a joke from the beginning, as nobody wants to hold onto bitcoins (tokens masquerading as money).

The spread (buying and selling bitcoins for dollars) and high volatility result in high! transaction costs guys.

I explained this in the OP already. And dont assume that the volatility will stop: Artificial agreements to trade useless tokens that nobody wants, for goods are always volatile (I have adressed this already). Its in the nature of this artificial agreement. Also, most of the people buying bitcoins are speculators, buying because they think they will get rich.

volatility depends on market participation. With 400 billions market cap we'll have a foreign currency like volatility. For sure.

You wont reach this market cap (at least not for a sustained period of time, I could only imagine a blow off bubble top). Worthless tokens will never become money, as they dont fullfill the requirments of money. I have adressed this already:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361037.msg3926046#msg3926046

How many people before this year were saying we would never reach $100 for a sustained period? Yet we did, now if you offered to buy a bitcoin for $100 people would laugh at you.

You keep saying that "Worthless tokens will never become money, as they dont[sic] fullfill[sic] the requirments[sic] of money.", maybe your requirements for money are wrong? In the hard sciences (chemistry, physics, etc), if we observe facts which do not match our theory then we change our theory, we do not throw out empirical observations.

[porc]

These "low transaction costs" were a joke from the beginning, as nobody wants to hold onto bitcoins (tokens masquerading as money).

The spread (buying and selling bitcoins for dollars) and high volatility result in high! transaction costs guys.

I explained this in the OP already. And dont assume that the volatility will stop: Artificial agreements to trade useless tokens that nobody wants, for goods are always volatile (I have adressed this already). Its in the nature of this artificial agreement. Also, most of the people buying bitcoins are speculators, buying because they think they will get rich.

volatility depends on market participation. With 400 billions market cap we'll have a foreign currency like volatility. For sure.

You wont reach this market cap (at least not for a sustained period of time, I could only imagine a blow off bubble top). Worthless tokens will never become money, as they dont fullfill the requirments of money. I have adressed this already:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361037.msg3926046#msg3926046

You could earn real money, porc. Will gold ever give you such an opportunity to get rich? If you knew in advance that bitcoin price would skyrocket (bubble or no bubble), would you then take this chance or rather continue to sling mud at bitcoin here?

Yes Bitcoin was a great  (pyramid like) scheme, that one could have profited from as a speculator. However I only buy when I see REAL VALUE and I only SAVE in real money. Now I dont see any of this in bitcoin (as I said I think the price will collapse as I dont think bitcoin will become money).

[porc]

These "low transaction costs" were a joke from the beginning, as nobody wants to hold onto bitcoins (tokens masquerading as money).

The spread (buying and selling bitcoins for dollars) and high volatility result in high! transaction costs guys.

I explained this in the OP already. And dont assume that the volatility will stop: Artificial agreements to trade useless tokens that nobody wants, for goods are always volatile (I have adressed this already). Its in the nature of this artificial agreement. Also, most of the people buying bitcoins are speculators, buying because they think they will get rich.

volatility depends on market participation. With 400 billions market cap we'll have a foreign currency like volatility. For sure.

You wont reach this market cap (at least not for a sustained period of time, I could only imagine a blow off bubble top). Worthless tokens will never become money, as they dont fullfill the requirments of money. I have adressed this already:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361037.msg3926046#msg3926046

How many people before this year were saying we would never reach $100 for a sustained period? Yet we did, now if you offered to buy a bitcoin for $100 people would laugh at you.

You keep saying that "Worthless tokens will never become money, as they dont[sic] fullfill[sic] the requirments[sic] of money.", maybe your requirements for money are wrong? In the hard sciences (chemistry, physics, etc), if we observe facts which do not match our theory then we change our theory, we do not throw out empirical observations.

Yes. At the moment I dont see any facts that disprove my opinion. I only see a speculative mania (that might continue for a while, who knows).

If bitcoin does become what you hope it will, I will have to correct my theory. However I am as strongly convinced that  bitcoins are (worthless)tokens not money as you are that bitcoins are money not tokens.  

To summarize: Where you see adoption I see a speculative mania.
                         Where you see money I see worthless tokens.
                         Where you see value I see high prices (and no value).
                         Where you see scarcity I see abundance.
                    

[deisik]

You could earn real money, porc. Will gold ever give you such an opportunity to get rich? If you knew in advance that bitcoin price would skyrocket (bubble or no bubble), would you then take this chance or rather continue to sling mud at bitcoin here?

Yes Bitcoin was a great  (pyramid like) scheme, that one could have profited from as a speculator. However I only buy when I see REAL VALUE and I only SAVE in real money. Now I dont see any of this in bitcoin (as I said I think the price will collapse as I dont think bitcoin will become money).

But now we see that gold lost a third of its last winter highs (silver even more than that). How on earth can you consider those shiny metals as having real value really? A few years ago silver got nearly as high as $50 per ounce. It was a perfect bubble right then that you preach against now. And this year it fell even below $18 per ounce...

How come, porc?

[porc]

You could earn real money, porc. Will gold ever give you such an opportunity to get rich? If you knew in advance that bitcoin price would skyrocket (bubble or no bubble), would you then take this chance or rather continue to sling mud at bitcoin here?

Yes Bitcoin was a great  (pyramid like) scheme, that one could have profited from as a speculator. However I only buy when I see REAL VALUE and I only SAVE in real money. Now I dont see any of this in bitcoin (as I said I think the price will collapse as I dont think bitcoin will become money).

But now we see that gold lost a third of its last winter highs (silver even more than that). How on earth can you consider those shiny metals as real value really? A few years ago silver got nearly as high as $50 per ounce (it was a perfect bubble right then) and this year it fell to below $18 per ounce... How come, pork?

I dont look at price to determine underlying value.

[deisik]

Yes Bitcoin was a great  (pyramid like) scheme, that one could have profited from as a speculator. However I only buy when I see REAL VALUE and I only SAVE in real money. Now I dont see any of this in bitcoin (as I said I think the price will collapse as I dont think bitcoin will become money).

But now we see that gold lost a third of its last winter highs (silver even more than that). How on earth can you consider those shiny metals as real value really? A few years ago silver got nearly as high as $50 per ounce (it was a perfect bubble right then) and this year it fell to below $18 per ounce... How come, pork?

I dont look at price to determine underlying value.

Do you buy bullion (or coins for that matter) or stick to some derivatives? I remember you also said that you have some stock in miners, right? Do you buy them without respect to price too?

[Peter Lambert]

You could earn real money, porc. Will gold ever give you such an opportunity to get rich? If you knew in advance that bitcoin price would skyrocket (bubble or no bubble), would you then take this chance or rather continue to sling mud at bitcoin here?

Yes Bitcoin was a great  (pyramid like) scheme, that one could have profited from as a speculator. However I only buy when I see REAL VALUE and I only SAVE in real money. Now I dont see any of this in bitcoin (as I said I think the price will collapse as I dont think bitcoin will become money).

But now we see that gold lost a third of its last winter highs (silver even more than that). How on earth can you consider those shiny metals as having real value really? A few years ago silver got nearly as high as $50 per ounce. It was a perfect bubble right then that you preach against now. And this year it fell even below $18 per ounce...

How come, porc?

Don't forget that those prices are quoted in the inflating currency of USD, so the loss of purchasing power is even greater than what is reflected in the price of these metals.