[ANN][DOGE] Dogecoin - very currency many coin - v1.10.0

[devphp]

Doge must do a hard fork. It did a few hard forks in the past, so this is no issue for it.

The purpose of the hard fork is to eliminate the 51% attack possibility in the future.

It must implement a 2 independent algo system, one is PoW Scrypt (same as now), one is PoS. This will ensure there is enough mining power to keep it running as well as not ever be attacked thru 51%. The money supply rewards shouldn't change, same coin supply should stay, it's a non-issue in the big scheme of events. 100 bln coins + 5 bln yearly is perfect for an economy, where 1 doge will cost one or a few USD cents in the future.

This step, or similar that includes more than 1 independent algo, will ensure longetivity of Doge. It's perfect for Internet tipping, micro transactions, small and medium sized purchases, but something should be done about the security of the network in the near future. Investors can't invest and be permanently concerned about the impending 51% attack peril. The hard fork I suggested above is one of the solutions to get rid of those worries.

Current price decline is not an issue, as adoption increases, price will take care of itself. But the 51% attack possibility can't take care of itself without devs doing something meaningful about it.

[ranlo]

Doge must do a hard fork. It did a few hard forks in the past, so this is no issue for it.

The purpose of the hard fork is to eliminate the 51% attack possibility in the future.

It must implement a 2 independent algo system, one is PoW Scrypt (same as now), one is PoS. This will ensure there is enough mining power to keep it running as well as not ever be attacked thru 51%. The money supply rewards shouldn't change, same coin supply should stay, it's a non-issue in the big scheme of events. 100 bln coins + 5 bln yearly is perfect for an economy, where 1 doge will cost one or a few USD cents in the future.

This step, or similar that includes more than 1 independent algo, will ensure longetivity of Doge. It's perfect for Internet tipping, micro transactions, small and medium sized purchases, but something should be done about the security of the network in the near future. Investors can't invest and be permanently concerned about the impending 51% attack peril. The hard fork I suggested above is one of the solutions to get rid of those worries.

Current price decline is not an issue, as adoption increases, price will take care of itself. But the 51% attack possibility can't take care of itself without devs doing something meaningful about it.

Is it really worth adding in PoS right now though? While I get the benefits of it, making a major change like that to a coin that has been around this long and is this wide-spread may be a bad movement. And if it were implemented, what % of interest? It'd have to be low.

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[devphp]

Is it really worth adding in PoS right now though? While I get the benefits of it, making a major change like that to a coin that has been around this long and is this wide-spread may be a bad movement. And if it were implemented, what % of interest? It'd have to be low.

It is worth it for the benefit of the investors. I understand, miners may object and some of them may leave, but there are enough users who will keep their wallets opened to generate coins through PoS mechanism. This will ensure the 51% attack will not be practically and even theoretically possible. Miners are an important part of the infrastructure, but nobody can deny that they dump a lot of coins on the market, hence if we care about the price, we should care about investors and their concerns, the main of which is the security of the coin. PoS will ensure the coin cannot be killed. Once that is out of the question, the price will rebound, and many miners will return. Doge is great for internet payments and has a friendly face, so why not make it perfect.

As for % of interest, that shouldn't be tinkered with much. The coin supply should stay the same, just like investors know it today (100 bln + 10k rewards for life = 5 bln. yearly). The block rewards schedule should stay the same, except 50% of the blocks must go to Scrypt miners, 50% of the blocks must go to PoS miners (randomly or according to their stake, this is debatable), the main point is to make sure half of the blocks are generated outside the gigahash Scrypt network, which can be hijacked by someone with a lot of power.

Doge could go Myriadcoin-style way, but PoS would make sure the only way to perform a 51% attack is to buy 51% of the coins in existance, which will drive the price many fold and is not practically possible. With a few PoW algos it's still possible to buy a lot of hardware, so I'd say the combined PoW/PoS method is best.

[ranlo]

Is it really worth adding in PoS right now though? While I get the benefits of it, making a major change like that to a coin that has been around this long and is this wide-spread may be a bad movement. And if it were implemented, what % of interest? It'd have to be low.

It is worth it for the benefit of the investors. I understand, miners may object and some of them may leave, but there are enough users who will keep their wallets opened to generate coins through PoS mechanism. This will ensure the 51% attack will not be practically and even theoretically possible. Miners are an important part of the infrastructure, but nobody can deny that they dump a lot of coins on the market, hence if we care about the price, we should care about investors and their concerns, the main of which is the security of the coin. PoS will ensure the coin cannot be killed. Once that is out of the question, the price will rebound, and many miners will return. Doge is great for internet payments and has a friendly face, so why not make it perfect.

As for % of interest, that shouldn't be tinkered with much. The coin supply should stay the same, just like investors know it today (100 bln + 10k rewards for life = 5 bln. yearly). The block rewards schedule should stay the same, except 50% of the blocks must go to Scrypt miners, 50% of the blocks must go to PoS miners (randomly or according to their stake, this is debatable), the main point is to make sure half of the blocks are generated outside the gigahash Scrypt network, which can be hijacked by someone with a lot of power.

Doge could go Myriadcoin-style way, but PoS would make sure the only way to perform a 51% attack is to buy 51% of the coins in existance, which will drive the price many fold and is not practically possible. With a few PoW algos it's still possible to buy a lot of hardware, so I'd say the combined PoW/PoS method is best.

It may be doable, but I think we'd need a community vote to determine how to handle all of the block rewards. With ASICs on the move (and some people buying them in bulk), I am starting to see the need for more protection for the network.

[devphp]

It may be doable, but I think we'd need a community vote to determine how to handle all of the block rewards. With ASICs on the move (and some people buying them in bulk), I am starting to see the need for more protection for the network.

I don't see how a community vote is possible technically though.

I mean PoS blocks can be set up to be generated 25% of the time, or 33% of the time, that's all debatable and can be tweaked later to 50% if there is not enough security in the network to prevent the 51%-attack, but the devs must proactively work on the code to make this happen, because Doge CAN make this hard fork without major hassle to protect its network once and for good, unlike Litecoin, which already can't, as it's too much of a behemoth at this stage.

[ranlo]

It may be doable, but I think we'd need a community vote to determine how to handle all of the block rewards. With ASICs on the move (and some people buying them in bulk), I am starting to see the need for more protection for the network.

I don't see how a community vote is possible technically though.

I mean PoS blocks can be set up to be generated 25% of the time, or 33% of the time, that's all debatable and can be tweaked later to 50% if there is not enough security in the network to prevent the 51%-attack, but the devs must proactively work on the code to make this happen, because Doge CAN make this hard fork without major hassle to protect its network once and for good, unlike Litecoin, which already can't, as it's too much of a behemoth at this stage.

This is a good point. Getting changes done now rather than later will definitely make it easier to do.

Who are the current DOGE devs? I think people should contact them to see their opinion.

[devphp]

This is a good point. Getting changes done now rather than later will definitely make it easier to do.

Who are the current DOGE devs? I think people should contact them to see their opinion.

I am sure they know of all the options, it's discussed on reddit, but I guess they also don't know how to have the community vote. Heated discussions show a lot of people disagree on changes, especially miners who like it the way it is, because it's most profitable for them not to change anything. But miners don't have the final say, the recent price drop, which I hope will make devs reconsider what's important, showed that investors play a big part too, and they need peace of mind for their investments.

I hope they read this thread from time to time, as it's crazy on reddit, serious topics there get downvoted and flooded quickly.

[ranlo]

This is a good point. Getting changes done now rather than later will definitely make it easier to do.

Who are the current DOGE devs? I think people should contact them to see their opinion.

I am sure they know of all the options, it's discussed on reddit, but I guess they also don't know how to have the community vote. Heated discussions show a lot of people disagree on changes, especially miners who like it the way it is, because it's most profitable for them not to change anything. But miners don't have the final say, the recent price drop, which I hope will make devs reconsider what's important, showed that investors play a big part too, and they need peace of mind for their investments.

I hope they read this thread from time to time, as it's crazy on reddit, serious topics there get downvoted and flooded quickly.

I would even argue that a 0% PoS would help. Tons of people leave their wallets open all the time anyways, so even no benefits to staking (maybe get transaction fees?) would grant some security without changing reward structures.

[devphp]

I would even argue that a 0% PoS would help. Tons of people leave their wallets open all the time anyways, so even no benefits to staking (maybe get transaction fees?) would grant some security without changing reward structures.

I would keep it to at least 25% of blocks generated with the PoS mechanism, that should be incentive enough to have a very decentralized network, not prone to the 51% attack.

75% of the blocks are generated by Scrypt miners per reward schedule specifications.

25% of the blocks are generated by opened wallets, reward is given according to their stake, like they do in CommunityCoin, but should in the long run not exceed 25% of the overall rewards for all the opened wallets. CommunityCoin does that somehow, code is open source.

Tx fees go to the block generator, no matter PoW or PoS.

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[stompix]

Guess which coin just overtook litecoin on CoinGecko.

http://www.coingecko.com/

That is a joke:
So litecoin gets:

70
   928    232    674    158    22    11

And worldcoin:

    
57
   8    12    10    0    25    8

Does it look to you as a 13% difference?

[DolanDuck]

I was about to invest some money in doge because of its low value but after some reading in the alt forums I'm not so convinced.
Do you think it will rise another time or the downtren will lasts some more day/weeks/months?

[devphp]

I was about to invest some money in doge because of its low value but after some reading in the alt forums I'm not so convinced.
Do you think it will rise another time or the downtren will lasts some more day/weeks/months?

Invest 25-50% of what you intended to invest into Doge, then wait and see.

[manfred]

I was about to invest some money in doge because of its low value but after some reading in the alt forums I'm not so convinced.
Do you think it will rise another time or the down-trend will lasts some more day/weeks/months?

The bottom line is it must Hardfork one last time. With the right fork price would reach new ATH in no time. How low it will sink in the meantime is anyone's guess. Right now is a good time to buy what ever you feel comfortable with. Once a decision has been made you may not be able to get some cheaply as existing sell orders would be cancelled and everyone wants to buy some.
It,s not easy for the dev as there are a lot of different opinions and options. There is also egos, even so Dogecoin should be the last to worry about that one. Its also better to take time and do it proper, just look at the Darkcoin fiasco with the spaghetti monster they had the other day.
It is no secret that the dev is not a very business oriented person (1 Doge 1) and also if you remember:
http://www.coindesk.com/dogecoin-founder-turns-500000-investment-offer/
It boils down to a pure gamble right now, i think he will deliver eventualy.
Personally i never had a PoS coin and never will. For me PoS proves nothing and the only Proof of Stake i have is the little Fiat i have remaining in the Bank. With PoW i can see the work being done. I dont care if you have dug the ditch by hand, with a digger or got someone else to do it. What matters is that you can prove now that the ditch is there where i wanted it and x amount of energy has been spent in doing so. Only if you have over-unity could you have cheated.
For me the value of a coin is how much energy has been, and how much will be spent (among other things). Value can only go up when hash points up.

[tins]

I was about to invest some money in doge because of its low value but after some reading in the alt forums I'm not so convinced.
Do you think it will rise another time or the downtren will lasts some more day/weeks/months?

I'm not sure how much you were planning on investing.
That said- it is a good time to jump in with something...doesn't have to be much. Say you throw in $500- worst case scenario, you lose close to $500.
Best case scenario, you hold on a few years and makes tens of thousands...
Seems to be more upside potential versus risk.
JMHO

[devphp]

Personally i never had a PoS coin and never will. For me PoS proves nothing and the only Proof of Stake i have is the little Fiat i have remaining in the Bank. With PoW i can see the work being done. I dont care if you have dug the ditch by hand, with a digger or got someone else to do it. What matters is that you can prove now that the ditch is there where i wanted it and x amount of energy has been spent in doing so. Only if you have over-unity could you have cheated.
For me the value of a coin is how much energy has been, and how much will be spent. Value can only go up when hash points up.

It doesn't have to be PoW/PoS combo.

It can be Scrypt/X11/Groestl/sha256/whatever else combo, that would satisfy the miners, AND make the 51% attack impossible, but that has to be done, and hard fork, yes, but it's not a problem, has been hard forked before a few times. The main point is to make the 51% attack impossible, that's what investors are looking for in the coin, give them peace of mind, make sure the coin will survive and they'll send the price to a few hundred satoshi.

[stompix]

Personally i never had a PoS coin and never will. For me PoS proves nothing and the only Proof of Stake i have is the little Fiat i have remaining in the Bank. With PoW i can see the work being done. I dont care if you have dug the ditch by hand, with a digger or got someone else to do it. What matters is that you can prove now that the ditch is there where i wanted it and x amount of energy has been spent in doing so. Only if you have over-unity could you have cheated.
For me the value of a coin is how much energy has been, and how much will be spent. Value can only go up when hash points up.

It doesn't have to be PoW/PoS combo.

It can be Scrypt/X11/Groestl/sha256/whatever else combo, that would satisfy the miners, AND make the 51% attack impossible, but that has to be done, and hard fork, yes, but it's not a problem, has been hard forked before a few times. The main point is to make the 51% attack impossible, that's what investors are looking for in the coin, give them peace of mind, make sure the coin will survive and they'll send the price to a few hundred satoshi.

The miners could go and ***. A coin need a lot more rather than just miners.
Who is talking about bitcoin future and the way is mined over in the main forum? Almost nobody , just the people who invested in mining rigs and they do keep a low profile!

Is somebody crazy enough to change the protocol just to please miners ? NO.

Because mining has no impact on the value of the coin.
Seems like miners have formed their union and try to impose themselves and they will screw coins just like they did to the auto industry in the us.

[DolanDuck]

I was about to invest some money in doge because of its low value but after some reading in the alt forums I'm not so convinced.
Do you think it will rise another time or the down-trend will lasts some more day/weeks/months?

The bottom line is it must Hardfork one last time. With the right fork price would reach new ATH in no time. How low it will sink in the meantime is anyone's guess. Right now is a good time to buy what ever you feel comfortable with. Once a decision has been made you may not be able to get some cheaply as existing sell orders would be cancelled and everyone wants to buy some.
It,s not easy for the dev as there are a lot of different opinions and options. There is also egos, even so Dogecoin should be the last to worry about that one. Its also better to take time and do it proper, just look at the Darkcoin fiasco with the spaghetti monster they had the other day.
It is no secret that the dev is not a very business oriented person (1 Doge 1) and also if you remember:
http://www.coindesk.com/dogecoin-founder-turns-500000-investment-offer/
It boils down to a pure gamble right now, i think he will deliver eventualy.
Personally i never had a PoS coin and never will. For me PoS proves nothing and the only Proof of Stake i have is the little Fiat i have remaining in the Bank. With PoW i can see the work being done. I dont care if you have dug the ditch by hand, with a digger or got someone else to do it. What matters is that you can prove now that the ditch is there where i wanted it and x amount of energy has been spent in doing so. Only if you have over-unity could you have cheated.
For me the value of a coin is how much energy has been, and how much will be spent (among other things). Value can only go up when hash points up.

Thanks for the answers, I'll buy some doge and then close the wallet for a couple of months... let's see how it goes 

[lynn_402]

Personally i never had a PoS coin and never will. For me PoS proves nothing and the only Proof of Stake i have is the little Fiat i have remaining in the Bank. With PoW i can see the work being done. I dont care if you have dug the ditch by hand, with a digger or got someone else to do it. What matters is that you can prove now that the ditch is there where i wanted it and x amount of energy has been spent in doing so. Only if you have over-unity could you have cheated.
For me the value of a coin is how much energy has been, and how much will be spent. Value can only go up when hash points up.

It doesn't have to be PoW/PoS combo.

It can be Scrypt/X11/Groestl/sha256/whatever else combo, that would satisfy the miners, AND make the 51% attack impossible, but that has to be done, and hard fork, yes, but it's not a problem, has been hard forked before a few times. The main point is to make the 51% attack impossible, that's what investors are looking for in the coin, give them peace of mind, make sure the coin will survive and they'll send the price to a few hundred satoshi.

That would definitely not satisfy the hundreds of miners who bought scrypt asics for Doge.
For now, our 40Gh/s network is quite secure. We still have a whole month to make dogecoin be worth more, and to get doge users to mine and secure their coin. This seems far from impossible.