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Author Topic: [ANNOUNCE] Ixcoin - a new Bitcoin fork  (Read 104315 times)
Nasakioto
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Thomas Nasakioto


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August 13, 2011, 02:51:00 AM
 #501

In particular, I think it is unfair to keep hundreds of thousands of whatever-coins for yourself, and it is unwise to think that a bitcoin variation that is "almost exactly like bitcoin, only different because... well, just because" will ever have anything more than speculative value.

How do you respond to the idea that you started this new blockchain with the primary purpose being to make you an early adopter so you can get rich quick, especially considering you made 250'000 ixcoins for your personal use (not bounties) before even announcing your project? Many people on this forum including me think just that.

The day following Ixcoin's introduction, I bought several thousand Ixcoins at 0.00006 BTC from miners. At that rate, that equates to ~17BTC for 250K Ixcoins - less than what we spent on hosting/domains/related, not counting our time. Nothing was stopping you or others from purchasing large holdings of Ixcoins at these prices.

Miners are now sitting on 1 million Ixcoins. Some early miners managed to mine 150K Ixcoins. Should they be scolded for being early adopters?

There were several motivations why we introduced Ixcoins. To name a few:

1/ Before investing in Bitcoin we were a bit uneasy about the prospect of early-adopters with massive BTC holdings possibly tanking the value of our investments by flooding the markets. I eventually dismissed this feeling, but several experienced investors we mentioned Bitcoin to kept bringing up that point. I don't have anything against early adopters profiting, because without them we wouldn't have the wonderful Bitcoin ecosystem we have today. It's just that I would prefer the value of my investment to not be dependent on a handful of early adopters with millions of BTCs. I prefer to spread my risk. We saw a trial-run of such a scenario with the MTGox episode.

The current Ixcoin distribution is somewhat clearer which I hope might reassure potential new investors. The 2/3 of the total 1.5M IXC in existence belong to miners. Close to half of the remaining 1/3 is set aside for bounties. The rest will be used to fund future development and some for ourselves. Omitting the initial difficulty ramp-up, I'm betting IXC will be evenly distributed since the mining community is mature and competition is fierce. Setting a high difficulty right from the start would have avoided the difficulty ramp-up phase, but we believe would also have prevented the general excitement and very rapid uptake from the Bitcoin community.

2/ Waiting until 2033-2050 for all 21 million BTCs to be generated sounded a bit distant. We wanted a shorter maturation period to reinforce the scarcity aspect of Bitcoin. By 2015 when hopefully the masses start using Bitcoin/Ixcoin (due to current Bitcoin dev trends and imploding fiat currencies) and when all Ixcoins have been generated, it'll be refreshing for people to use the strictly non-inflating Ixcoin currency (and also avoid explaining the complex inflation and mining techno-babble), whilst still reassuring them that there is not just a handful of Ixcoin holders but that it is spread over many thousands of miners.

3/ Fun and (currently limited) profit. We made multiple orders of magnitude more on bitcoin trading but this is way more fun!


Thomas Nasakioto - Upgrade to Ixcoin 0.3.24.3 before block 43,000
Ixcoin.org
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August 13, 2011, 02:55:06 AM
 #502

In particular, I think it is unfair to keep hundreds of thousands of whatever-coins for yourself, and it is unwise to think that a bitcoin variation that is "almost exactly like bitcoin, only different because... well, just because" will ever have anything more than speculative value.

How do you respond to the idea that you started this new blockchain with the primary purpose being to make you an early adopter so you can get rich quick, especially considering you made 250'000 ixcoins for your personal use (not bounties) before even announcing your project? Many people on this forum including me think just that.

The day following Ixcoin's introduction, I bought several thousand Ixcoins at 0.00006 BTC from miners me
Fixed

Own address: 19QkqAza7BHFTuoz9N8UQkryP4E9jHo4N3 - Pywallet support: 1AQDfx22pKGgXnUZFL1e4UKos3QqvRzNh5 - Bitcointalk++ script support: 1Pxeccscj1ygseTdSV1qUqQCanp2B2NMM2
Pywallet: instructions. Encrypted wallet support, export/import keys/addresses, backup wallets, export/import CSV data from/into wallet, merge wallets, delete/import addresses and transactions, recover altcoins sent to bitcoin addresses, sign/verify messages and files with Bitcoin addresses, recover deleted wallets, etc.
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August 13, 2011, 03:15:39 AM
 #503

1/ Before investing in Bitcoin we were a bit uneasy about the prospect of early-adopters with massive BTC holdings possibly tanking the value of our investments by flooding the markets. I eventually dismissed this feeling, but several experienced investors we mentioned Bitcoin to kept bringing up that point. I don't have anything against early adopters profiting, because without them we wouldn't have the wonderful Bitcoin ecosystem we have today. It's just that I would prefer the value of my investment to not be dependent on a handful of early adopters with millions of BTCs. I prefer to spread my risk. We saw a trial-run of such a scenario with the MTGox episode.

It seems to me like Ixcoin is even more friendly to early adopters than Bitcoin. Its faster growth rate due to its larger generations combined with the large-scale mining at low difficulty are flooding its early adopters with easy coins. It has already reached a total of over 1.6 million coins distributed only a few days after going public.
Nasakioto
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Thomas Nasakioto


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August 13, 2011, 03:25:03 AM
 #504

The day following Ixcoin's introduction, I bought several thousand Ixcoins at 0.00006 BTC from miners me
Fixed

Here's one trade I made: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=36278.msg447628#msg447628

Thomas Nasakioto - Upgrade to Ixcoin 0.3.24.3 before block 43,000
Ixcoin.org
Nasakioto
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Thomas Nasakioto


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August 13, 2011, 03:44:32 AM
 #505

It seems to me like Ixcoin is even more friendly to early adopters than Bitcoin. Its faster growth rate due to its larger generations combined with the large-scale mining at low difficulty are flooding its early adopters with easy coins. It has already reached a total of over 1.6 million coins distributed only a few days after going public.

I would argue it is diluted over substantially more miners than early bitcoin mining. I would be very surprise any single individual is holding more than 200K IXC.

Thomas Nasakioto - Upgrade to Ixcoin 0.3.24.3 before block 43,000
Ixcoin.org
kano
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August 13, 2011, 04:00:36 AM
 #506

Clearly the way to make money with this is to get some value for IX (and lots of IX) and then trade them (all) for BTC slowly so as to not destroy the market early.

Are you saying you are NOT doing this?

Whatever happens in the end, IX will fail since there is no use for them except to trade them for BTC (unless the following)
If you do get actual markets for people to accept them - then that may change, however, with the startup of taking 580K coins, no company with someone who has an ounce of economic sense would risk their business on something with that glaring flaw.

And no matter how you try to hide it behind other words, the 580K is a glaring flaw.

Pool: https://kano.is BTC: 1KanoiBupPiZfkwqB7rfLXAzPnoTshAVmb
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August 13, 2011, 04:24:51 AM
 #507

I would argue it is diluted over substantially more miners than early bitcoin mining. I would be very surprise any single individual is holding more than 200K IXC.
I watched someone buy 235K IXC on the exchange. I don't know for sure if they still hold it.

I am an employee of Ripple.
1Joe1Katzci1rFcsr9HH7SLuHVnDy2aihZ BM-NBM3FRExVJSJJamV9ccgyWvQfratUHgN
indio007
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August 13, 2011, 05:12:48 AM
 #508

Well sending ixcoins to a bitcoin address = fail. There goes 116 ixc into the ether.
You should be able to claim the ixcoins so long as you still have the private key that corresponds to that bitcoin address.

It worked. I copied my wallet.dat for the bitcoin address i sent ix coin to over to the ix coin directory and it recovered them.

So now i have one private key good for btc and ixc
Mousepotato
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August 13, 2011, 06:15:00 AM
 #509

What's up with the high rate of Rejected blocks?  In the beginning it wasn't that big of a deal, but now at current difficulty, it's frustrating finding a block only to have it rejected. Sad

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August 13, 2011, 06:21:49 AM
 #510

What's up with the high rate of Rejected blocks?  In the beginning it wasn't that big of a deal, but now at current difficulty, it's frustrating finding a block only to have it rejected. Sad

I hope you aren't getting scammed out of your scamcoins. That would be such a scam.

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Mousepotato
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August 13, 2011, 06:23:28 AM
 #511

If I wasn't mining this scam currency, I'd be busy mining the other scam currencies.

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August 13, 2011, 07:21:38 AM
 #512

as it is now, i will never accept ixcoin as payment, i don't feel the need to mine it either, nor do i want to argue this matter anymore, it seems that this situation is no different, no matter what you tell them, they don't listen, so i am just wasting my breath.

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August 13, 2011, 10:05:26 AM
 #513

no matter what you tell them, they don't listen

Is there need for a concerted effort to manipulate or control behavior of one or more existences perhaps due to unacceptance of such activities, participations or behaviorisms by yourself or anyone else?  e.g. "be, do, think, etc. like us (read 'me') or we (each individual to various extents/degrees, eventually 'giving up' or whatever) will annoy, nag, pester you neverendingly/indefinitely?"  Is this normal?  Do you liek cake?

If there is such a need, then by all means, continue propagating and repeating such efforts similarly as everyone else continues propagating their own efforts and natural phenomenon will continue as usual.

hint: many people still blatantly refuse and strongly oppose, fight and resist bitcoin, decrying it as scam, etc.  Effort towards providing informations to them is similarly obnoxiously annoying and overwhelmingly useless.  If they do not understasnd or accept initially, then repeating yourself may result in establishing strong conflict and negative energy/experiences with such individuals.  Let them fail, die, make poor choices, etc.  One person's trash is another's treasure.  One person's scam is another's (opposite of scam).
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August 13, 2011, 11:42:02 AM
 #514

@Gavin

out of curiosity i ask myself how many ppl would be subscribed at that @metzdowd.com mailinglist ? can someone tell ?
Is Satoshi only talking to himself to have a reference of early publishing ?

whats a metzdowd ?

greetings
Couple of things:

First, I want to squash the "Satoshi mined a bunch of bitcoins on his own before releasing the bitcoin chain" idea.  He publicly announced bitcoin version 0.1 six days after he generated the genesis block: January 9, 2009:
  http://www.mail-archive.com/cryptography@metzdowd.com/msg10142.html

According to the block chain history, he generated about 10 blocks total before the announcement.  And we know that he didn't pre-generate blocks because the genesis block contains a quote from the January 3rd Financial Times newspaper.

Second, I have no problem with alternative block chains, I just don't personally like how this particular alternative block chain is being promoted and developed and introduced. In particular, I think it is unfair to keep hundreds of thousands of whatever-coins for yourself, and it is unwise to think that a bitcoin variation that is "almost exactly like bitcoin, only different because... well, just because" will ever have anything more than speculative value.

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August 13, 2011, 12:14:26 PM
 #515

@Gavin

out of curiosity i ask myself how many ppl would be subscribed at that @metzdowd.com mailinglist ? can someone tell ?
Is Satoshi only talking to himself to have a reference of early publishing ?

whats a metzdowd ?

It's a public mailing list so any number of people could had been reading without being subscribed or posting. Only the list admin would know for sure how many subscribers the list actually has. Given that it appears to be active since 2001 until late 2010, I don't think Satoshi could had been talking only to himself in 2009.


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August 13, 2011, 01:21:57 PM
 #516

What's up with the high rate of Rejected blocks?  In the beginning it wasn't that big of a deal, but now at current difficulty, it's frustrating finding a block only to have it rejected. Sad

A high rate of invalid blocks is a good indication someone is manipulating the block chain. With such a small number of people mining it would be easy for one of the professional BTC miners to control 50%+ of the mining power and just ignore your blocks.

If you found this post useful, feel free to share the wealth: 1E35gTBmJzPNJ3v72DX4wu4YtvHTWqNRbM
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August 13, 2011, 01:27:37 PM
 #517

A high rate of invalid blocks is a good indication someone is manipulating the block chain. With such a small number of people mining it would be easy for one of the professional BTC miners to control 50%+ of the mining power and just ignore your blocks.
It's more to do with the fact that blocks are solved every few seconds due to the high network power vs the low difficulty, resulting in many blocks being solved by miners at approximately the same time and only one winning.
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August 13, 2011, 02:16:00 PM
 #518

So, what about this? It's start to look beyond current computer and networking power?
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August 13, 2011, 02:54:00 PM
 #519

Who knows what the eventual future of ixcoin is,  but really, I don't care.  I'm looking at this more like gambling... You can earn 'chips' with miners, or you can buy them with bitcoin.  Then you play them on the market (ixchange).  Then you win or lose.   I'm having quite a bit of fun playing - it's pretty addicting.

1. It's created a busy market involving the use of bitcoin.  Bitcoin needs as many uses as it can get.

2. Miners are being siphoned off to this - is that a bad thing?

3. So some guy modified a few lines of bitcoin and called it a new currency.  The guy who invented the pet rock made a killing too.  But he got some traction, and generated some interest.  Good for him.  Wish I would have done it.

4. It will never replace bitcoin.  It's not even a currency yet - nobody takes it except ixchange. (that I've seen).   Right now it's nothing more than casino chips that you can earn with miners or buy with bitcoin and play on ixchange.

I'm sure the created of ixcoin would not prefer to have it seen in this light, but it is what it is.  Maybe someday it'll catch on.  But I fail to see the downside as it is right now.  It's a fun distraction that provides yet another use for bitcoins.







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August 13, 2011, 02:59:51 PM
 #520

I find it interesting that if you search the term 'ixcoin' on this forum it finds not matching results yet an hour ago it worked fine and found lots of results?

If you like my post please feel free to give me some positive rep https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=18639
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