[Question] Is it traceable After changing to Altercoin?

[Naruto.me]

It is always say that all bitcoin transaction is traceable for bitcoin transaction.
I just wondering Is it still possible to trace the transaction after bitcoin trade with (e.g Litecoin etc.)
And who will keep these exchange record ? The exchange web?? 

[Mylon]

Well if you trade bitcoin for litecoin at an exchange, they might keep an record.
If you trade btc for ltc in person, there is no record. Just as there would be no record of two people buying/selling bitcoin/dollars if done in cash.

Personally, I still think that the best use of alt coins, is to hop through them to make your bitcoin transactions completely private again. (bitcoin -> litecoin -> primecoin -> ppcoin -> bitcoin is one of my favorite routes)

[franky1]

if the addresses used were able to be linked to individuals then pressure could be put to those individuals/exchanges to divulge who they traded with and the altcoin address used, to then allow the trace to continue.

but simple answer would be swapping between bitcoin and alt coin is another tool in attempting full anonymity... if implemented wisely.

[slikes]

It is always say that all bitcoin transaction is traceable for bitcoin transaction.
I just wondering Is it still possible to trace the transaction after bitcoin trade with (e.g Litecoin etc.)
And who will keep these exchange record ? The exchange web?? 

If you trade on an exchange, then they'll have a record of it. However, if you trade in person, or use multiple exchanges, there's less risk.

[niniyo]

The good thing is that there is basically 0 barrier to entry for altcoin exchanges since they don't have to deal with banks.  They can exist outside the purview of governments and if they are taken down, 10 more can pop up.  You could also do things like switch to LTC on one exchange, then trade back to BTC on another.  Use different alts etc.

[cbeast]

The NSA knows all and sees all. You cannot hide anything from them. They will trace any electronic footprint you leave anywhere. Be forewarned! 

[jubalix]

The NSA knows all and sees all. You cannot hide anything from them. They will trace any electronic footprint you leave anywhere. Be forewarned! 

emunie
zero coin
anoncoin

will put an end to this

[AnonyMint]

The NSA knows all and sees all. You cannot hide anything from them. They will trace any electronic footprint you leave anywhere. Be forewarned!  

emunie
zero coin
anoncoin

will put an end to this

zerocoin, proxy mixers (e.g. anoncoin) and other P2P coin mixers have the same problem that they can be honeypotted with Sybil identitites, or if the other participants reveal their identities, then yours is revealed by process of elimination.

Exchanging between altcoins on an exchange is equivalent in terms of anonymity of using a coin mixer that is an exchange site. These are not going to guarantee you anonymity for numerous reasons, including they can be honeypotted with Sybil identitites, or if the other participants reveal their identities, then yours is revealed by process of elimination, and the various ways exchanges can be compromised.

The NSA can not always look inside an exchange, although there are many ways it might be inside.

Look at what facebook is up to:

http://www.pakalertpress.com/2013/12/06/facebooks-future-plans-for-data-collection-beyond-all-imagination/

Add this:

http://www.activistpost.com/2013/11/social-logins-for-government-services.html

Also the governments can force users to abandon anonymity on Bitcoin.

Suggestion:

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+can+i+erase+myself+from+facebook

[LiteCoinGuy]

It is always say that all bitcoin transaction is traceable for bitcoin transaction.
I just wondering Is it still possible to trace the transaction after bitcoin trade with (e.g Litecoin etc.)
And who will keep these exchange record ? The exchange web??  

maybe you are waiting for Zerocoin but dont know that yet ;-)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=362468.msg3878992#msg3878992

[zimmah]

The NSA knows all and sees all. You cannot hide anything from them. They will trace any electronic footprint you leave anywhere. Be forewarned! 

trade bitcoins to several altcoins and back, use "shared transactions" and repeat if you think that's necessary. than throw in some buys and sales at localbitcoin using different bitcoin address, and to be completely sure, trade them for altcoins as well.

good luck following that trace.

[AnonyMint]

good luck following that trace.

You think localbitcoins doesn't keep a record of all transactions? You think this is not accessible by the authorities?

You think that most of the people you are mixing your transactions with will not eventually some where down the line of the linked coins on the public block chain reveal their identity to the NSA, facebook, google, etc? And thus you are identified by a process of elimination.

You are probably naive about the way activity is tracked on the internet such as via cookies.

[AnonyMint]

Look at what facebook is up to:

http://www.pakalertpress.com/2013/12/06/facebooks-future-plans-for-data-collection-beyond-all-imagination/

Add this:

http://www.activistpost.com/2013/11/social-logins-for-government-services.html

Suggestion:

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+can+i+erase+myself+from+facebook

They named it FACEbook for a reason. And we were so gullible to like that name!

Oh now they have high flying (you can't hear nor see) drones that can identify your face with 90% accuracy even if you are wearing a disguise or had plastic surgery:

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/12/12/conversation-between-glen-downs-on-capital-hill-martin-armstrong-about-the-budget-deal-121213/
(listen to the first segment of the interview)

[bitcoinpsftp]

It's always theoretically traceable.  If they go to the person who sold you the bitcoins, and have a way to make him talk, he'll say who he sold it to, etc.  They can always, person by person, get to the source. But practically, hard to trace.  Since if one middleman dies at any point, traceability is hard to go from there.

[DoubleMyCoins!]

It's traceable if the person investigating has access to the exchange's records. The more you transfer coins into different coins, different exchanges, different online wallets etc., not to mention coin mixers, the more confusing it is to untangle all that for any investigator. At some point it's probably impossible.

[AnonyMint]

It's traceable if the person investigating has access to the exchange's records. The more you transfer coins into different coins, different exchanges, different online wallets etc., not to mention coin mixers, the more confusing it is to untangle all that for any investigator. At some point it's probably impossible.

The government is going to spare no expense on investigators. There will be billions of unemployed eager for work.

The computer and the internet doesn't forget. It is not fuzzy.

The trail to you will be around forever and over time the dominoes will fall.

Probably most of your activities were traceable by IP address by the NSA which is recording everything and storing it in Utah.

[AnonyMint]

It isn't FUD.  

It's real, alipay and the other payment providers and financial institutions are not allowed to deal with the bitcoin exchanges anymore.

I told you guys the legal document was open for interpretation.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=358368.0;all

Financial institutions deal with currency, and the Chinese government wants to keep it that way.

Bitcoin Exchanges and related companies deal with Bitcoin, and the Chinese government wants to proceed this way.


It's only clarification of separation between THESE businesses, not Bitcoin in general.

Agreed. A big part of the motivation is probably to stem potential capital flight out of China via bitcoin. Not there was likely much of that going on, but the gov probably wants to get out ahead of matters. Which means eliminating layers of financial intermediaries that could obscure identity (hence why "payment processors" might not be allowed to interact with bitcoin exchanges, but banks are ok).

All in all, it will probably indeed dampen the mania to some degree, but it's by no means as hostile as many are making it out to be.

Bingo!

Good to see you all are starting to understand finally.

For the record, we can fully expect governments everywhere to demand the equivalent of AML/KYC, which is more or less what this China action likely amounts to (though more rigidly). That AML/KYC status-quo permeates the global financial system; not just the US.

Yes and they will collect capital gains and/or VAT taxes on Bitcoin appreciation as an investment even if you are trying to use it as a currency (medium-of-exchange), thus it can not be a currency.

But developers of altcoins will rise to the opportunity and create truly anonymous coins. Anoncoin isn't it. Bitcoin isn't it. I will soon publish a whitepaper to explain why.

In short, you need to understand that Chaum mix-nets (e.g. Tor) are vulnerable to timing attacks, and even honeypotting given only 3 hops. They NSA and spy agencies in each country are likely still able to track your identity much of the time. And VPNs are likely all controlled/backdoored/hacked/rooted by the NSA. And exchanging through mixers and altcoins does not obscure your IP address no matter how many times you do it. Also even across these proxies, your identity is tracked in other ways such as browser plugins trojans, cookies, patterns of internet uses such as favored search terms, facbook et al tracking the way you type, etc..

Even if you are one of the lucky few who manages to keep your anonymity assured by careful mix of the above methods, the point is the majority will not. And thus it is very simple for the government to make your anonymous coins practically unspendable and useless. The government simply sends a tax bill and put criminal liability for all activity on a coin since mining until present, until those non-anonymous coins holders (or former holders) can provide the identity of whom they bought from and sold to.

Thus all users will become afraid and only accept coins and sell coins from those who provide their complete identity. Thus only a coin with widespread assured anonymity would be able to become a currency and remain immune to government control.

So clearly you can see that you never will have anonymity with Bitcoin nor any current altcoins. Thus Bitcoin and the current altcoins can never be currencies (unless the governments take them over somehow and make them legal tender), and the government will essentially control them.

[porcupine87]

I think the exchanges have records. One thing is: For example, if you buy today 10btc for 100$ each from an exchange and then transform it to an address and let it rest there, until the price climbs to 1000$. How will you hide your coins? The goverment might ask, what did you do with the 10 000$.