The Scam List

[xstr8guy]

Coming out of nowhere / no one here has heard of
Will not supply videos / specs
Unlikely claims re price per hash or power per hash
Strange or no people on team
Just in time registering of website

some random pointers, sure there are more
I've called techtime 'looks scammy' as they sell a Monarch shipping in a month ffs

Excellent, thanks!  I reserved the 3rd post in this thread for "rules for listing" and will add these to that post.  Anyone else have more to add?

After we decide on rules for listing, we should devise a formula that determines the "level of scam potential".

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[YourPalToots]

Coming out of nowhere / no one here has heard of
Will not supply videos / specs
Unlikely claims re price per hash or power per hash
Strange or no people on team
Just in time registering of website

some random pointers, sure there are more
I've called techtime 'looks scammy' as they sell a Monarch shipping in a month ffs

Still seems subjective.

"coming out of nowhere" - where should they come from?

Unlikely claims seems easier to rate. There is only so many hashes from a chip right? Where is the line of unlikely?

"will not supply videos or specs" - That should be easy although I've seen companies post pics which were not good enough for the crowd here. What should be included in the pics to allow them to pass the scrutiny here?

"Strange people" - What the hell does that mean?

"Just in time registering" - How long should a web address be registered for a business before it is deemed trustworthy? How long should a new business wait to sell their products?


I would also like to add - Response time to emails

[xstr8guy]

I don't think there is a way around being at least somewhat subjective.  That "gut feeling" is often correct especially when a large portion of the community shares that feeling.

I think it's best to be proactive and list suspected companies as quickly as possible to prevent the scam from sucking in more victims.  Let's demand that these companies prove themselves to us before we throw money at them time and again!

[railzand]

Coming out of nowhere / no one here has heard of
Will not supply videos / specs
Unlikely claims re price per hash or power per hash
Strange or no people on team
Just in time registering of website

some random pointers, sure there are more
I've called techtime 'looks scammy' as they sell a Monarch shipping in a month ffs

Still seems subjective.

"coming out of nowhere" - where should they come from?

Unlikely claims seems easier to rate. There is only so many hashes from a chip right? Where is the line of unlikely?

"will not supply videos or specs" - That should be easy although I've seen companies post pics which were not good enough for the crowd here. What should be included in the pics to allow them to pass the scrutiny here?

"Strange people" - What the hell does that mean?

"Just in time registering" - How long should a web address be registered for a business before it is deemed trustworthy? How long should a new business wait to sell their products?


I would also like to add - Response time to emails

Hey mr amt shill, chill
It's late, I wanted to get the ball rolling. Feel free to gloss over any of my suggestions that were crap, and to answer some of your own questions with a suggestion or two.
Will not be possible to be subjective, it's a feeling thing, I guess you have those. Maybe rules we can't do already

[railzand]

willing to send early test models to hero members

[xstr8guy]

I think I have Rule #1...
No official announcement thread on Bitcointalk.

If you're a legitimate ASIC developer you would post here first to announce your project.

[railzand]

I think I have Rule #1...
No official announcement thread on Bitcointalk.

If you're a legitimate ASIC developer you would post here first to announce your project.

Duh why didn I think of that yes of course. We are devising here guidelines to set up the perfect scam in a few months time, joke
afk

[YourPalToots]

Coming out of nowhere / no one here has heard of
Will not supply videos / specs
Unlikely claims re price per hash or power per hash
Strange or no people on team
Just in time registering of website

some random pointers, sure there are more
I've called techtime 'looks scammy' as they sell a Monarch shipping in a month ffs

Still seems subjective.

"coming out of nowhere" - where should they come from?

Unlikely claims seems easier to rate. There is only so many hashes from a chip right? Where is the line of unlikely?

"will not supply videos or specs" - That should be easy although I've seen companies post pics which were not good enough for the crowd here. What should be included in the pics to allow them to pass the scrutiny here?

"Strange people" - What the hell does that mean?

"Just in time registering" - How long should a web address be registered for a business before it is deemed trustworthy? How long should a new business wait to sell their products?


I would also like to add - Response time to emails

Hey mr amt shill, chill
It's late, I wanted to get the ball rolling. Feel free to gloss over any of my suggestions that were crap, and to answer some of your own questions with a suggestion or two.
Will not be possible to be subjective, it's a feeling thing, I guess you have those. Maybe rules we can't do already

This is what I'm talking about. Ready with the pitch forks and torches. Hardly helpful. Nice little community your building here pal.

If you are going to be so fragile maybe you should step back from the keyboard.

If this system is going to work, it has to be consistent and easy for the members of this board to use and not based on your easy to hurt feelings. It also has to mean something for people outside of this forum. Believe it or not, not everyone involved in bitcoins is an active member here and as cryptocurrency moves forward, it will be less likely that users will even be aware of this message board. If this messageboard is going to claim authority over companies it must also exert responsibility.

[xstr8guy]

I think I have Rule #1...
No official announcement thread on Bitcointalk.

If you're a legitimate ASIC developer you would post here first to announce your project.

Duh why didn I think of that yes of course. We are devising here guidelines to set up the perfect scam in a few months time, joke
afk

Lol, never thought of it that way.  Maybe this is a horrible idea!

But to defend my rule, this community has members who are very tough on potential scammers.  And posting an official announcement thread causes these companies to open themselves up to intense scrutiny.  Does this community catch every scam?  Probably not.  But it sure is helpful to at least have a thorough, open discussion.

[YourPalToots]

I would also like to propose something for the companies who do survive the gauntlet. Maybe supply them with a "Bitcointalk Verified" bug for their website. This may give them an incentive to provide proper documentation to members of this board.

[railzand]

It's deffo rule one. Some of the worst scammers never go on here just hoping for a complete newb to send btc to their sites.

How about: replies to emails and pms within 12 hours, unless they clearly state length of backlog.

other suggestions: Introduces the team, their qualifications, background...
Company history openly (oh dear subjective) discussed

shutting up now

[xstr8guy]

I would also like to propose something for the companies who do survive the gauntlet. Maybe supply them with a "Bitcointalk Verified" bug for their website. This may give them an incentive to provide proper documentation to members of this board.

I love the idea but I don't think I'd want that responsibility.  What if the "verified" company eventually ran off with a bunch of money?  I don't want an angry mob with torches and pitchforks at my front door! 

[xstr8guy]

It's deffo rule one. Some of the worst scammers never go on here just hoping for a complete newb to send btc to their sites.

How about: replies to emails and pms within 12 hours, unless they clearly state length of backlog.

other suggestions: Introduces the team, their qualifications, background...
Company history openly (oh dear subjective) discussed

shutting up now

I will add these or merge them to existing rules.  Thanks for your suggestions!

[YourPalToots]

It's deffo rule one. Some of the worst scammers never go on here just hoping for a complete newb to send btc to their sites.

You assume a newb here is a newb to the world.

This forum is not the end all be all but if it's going to have any influence and grow as this technology/currency/commodity grows, it must stay objective with it's assessment of emerging companies in this field. If it does not, it will lose its credibility.

[xstr8guy]

It's deffo rule one. Some of the worst scammers never go on here just hoping for a complete newb to send btc to their sites.

You assume a newb here is a newb to the world.

This forum is not the end all be all but if it's going to have any influence and grow as this technology/currency/commodity grows, it must stay objective with it's assessment of emerging companies in this field. If it does not, it will lose its credibility.

My fear is that the massive amount of scams being perpetrated every day is causing more harm to the credibility of Bitcoin than anything else.  I'm sure we all welcome emerging companies to this forum.  But I do think it's important that we put pressure on them to prove themselves before we throw money at them.

[YourPalToots]

So all new companies will be deemed 'scams' because this forum does not want to take the responsibility to deem someone trustworthy? It seems all companies will then be doomed here.

If this forum wants to elevate itself into a place of authority, it must also elevate its level of responsibility. It's just as irresponsible to label a company a 'scam' who is not, than it is to scam people to begin with. Yes, there are some bad people out there but there are also good people out there who are trying to make a living. Who is this forum to take that opportunity away from them because we didn't want to uphold our end of the responsibility?

Maybe it's not identifying a company as a scam but giving it a "trustworthy" rating and letting people decide for themselves?

[YourPalToots]

It's deffo rule one. Some of the worst scammers never go on here just hoping for a complete newb to send btc to their sites.

You assume a newb here is a newb to the world.

This forum is not the end all be all but if it's going to have any influence and grow as this technology/currency/commodity grows, it must stay objective with it's assessment of emerging companies in this field. If it does not, it will lose its credibility.

My fear is that the massive amount of scams being perpetrated every day is causing more harm to the credibility of Bitcoin than anything else.  I'm sure we all welcome emerging companies to this forum.  But I do think it's important that we put pressure on them to prove themselves before we throw money at them.

If this community does not build credibility outside of these forum pages, all of the companies will leave this place and just post elsewhere. And if people who are outside of these forum (there are many) do not trust the 'opinion' of this forum then none of this matters. The opinion here has to be worth something to all parties for it to work.

[railzand]

YourPalToots stfu you ignorant pompous little shit. You obviously know nothing of this forum's centrality to the bitcoin project.

[YourPalToots]

YourPalToots stfu you ignorant pompous little shit. You obviously know nothing of this forum's centrality to the bitcoin project.

Oh get over yourself and comments like this give you zero credibility. How is someone looking for guidance going to look at this with any amount of worth?

[railzand]

xstr8guy so sorry for my part in taking this important topic ot

reading between the lines we're getting somewhere