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Author Topic: SAVE money - undervolting 7970 XFX, self made VBE7 bios = TABLE OF CONTENTS =  (Read 56583 times)
drakoin (OP)
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January 01, 2014, 10:39:53 PM
Last edit: February 04, 2014, 08:14:00 PM by drakoin
 #1

-- ------ - -  - - ------------- - - - -- - -- -- - -- --- --- - - - -- - --- -- --- ----- - - ------ ---- - -------- --- - - ----- -- -- - --- -- - ----
UPDATE 23.1.2014:  summary of the analysis in #103
Quickstart 1: "running cool" high efficiency optimum in #37. My favorite. We call it (C).    Quickstart 2: "running hot" optimum in #67. We call it (B2).
N.B.: If you have never flashed a BIOS, read the whole thread. It's all your own risk. You might brick your card. But tears are nice, too, sometimes.
-- ------ - -  - - ------------- - - - -- - -- -- - -- --- --- - - - -- - --- -- --- ----- - - ------ ---- - -------- --- - - ----- -- -- - --- -- - ----
UPDATE 3.2.2014: Table of contents (only important pages):

Tweaking a 7970 xfx for more khash with less electricity. Your own custom BIOS!
No: Not simply more khash - that's easy. But more khash for less expenses.


#5 factory bios, overclocking with cgminer; no undervolting, no BIOS flashing - you can do this, for sure, everyone can 622 khash with 277W
#7 factory bios: CC, MC, VDDC for 7 settings - info, understand, decide
#9 undervolting success! Manual how to do it. But the settings are still unstable.
#13 stable settings. Through undervolting by 0.140 Volts, I save 10% electricity and gain 12% hashrate.
#25 How to measure Watt of only the GPUs. Manual
#28 Sweet spot was found. Amazing 3.78 khash/Watt. Lower memclock than engine clock! 578khash/s at only 153W
#34 Summary so far for another 7970 XFX DD (FX-797A-TDFC) owner.
#36 First published BIOS. Works perfectly with good cgminer settings, but crashes with bad cgminer settings.
#37 "THE" posting. Start here if you are in a hurry. - do not not read it.
#39 cgminer.conf - perfect settings, and with support mining for drakoin. Yes, you can pay a bit for my work.
#45 Second BIOS published. Enables undervolting of previously volt-locked GPU. Stable settings.
#50 (at end of the posting) pool settings for support mining - help drakoin to continue this
#56 Warnings explained. Your GPU can get destroyed by this!
#64 Watercooling (also #58 #68 #92)
#67 TheStilt + drakoin-undervolting + psw-kernel: 720 khash/s at 275W
#73 why underclocking?
#80 CELEBRATION :-)
#87 Some cards know their Ampere & Watt! Mine doesn't :-(
#91 Useful table, perhaps helps to find other sweet spots?
#93 long debate comes to an end: We were both right!
#98 Help me to find this hardware: Clamp + Board + USB
#99 Mathematical analysis of profitability-of-coin versus khash/s per Watt - Ferengi look here
#101 Numerical results: Costs & khash/s for 5 settings
#102 Depending on the market situation / profitability, choose the right settings!
#103 SUMMARY: HOW TO CHOOSE WHICH SETTINGS?

#108 TheStilt mod5: Elpida only!
#123 Checklist if it doesn't work as you expect.


#104 Donate. Give a tip. Leave some encouragement. Give me coin dust. Pay me for this work here.
#115 Or let one of your rigs run for me for an hour, a day, a week, a lifetime.

You will save tons of electricity, believe me. Think of me in 1 month, in 6 months, in 1 year, in 2 years.  Wink


Happy mining!
(CLICK)


---
 P.S.: Let's spread the word, imagine the altcoin network starts saving 1/4, 1/3 or even 1/2 of electricity.

(use these graphics by pressing "quote")

END OF Table of contents. Time warp into the past:

-- ------ - -  - - ------------- - - - -- - -- -- - -- --- --- - - - -- - --- --
-- ------ - -  - - ------------- - - - -- - -- -- - -- --- --- - - - -- - --- --
-- ------ - -  - - ------------- - - - -- - -- -- - -- --- --- - - - -- - --- --
ORIGINAL 1.1.2014 "undervolting 7970 XFX with VBE7 & ATIWinFlash":
It started all with a question. I had well prepared it, but it was just a question:
-- ------ - -  - - ------------- - - - -- - -- -- - -- --- --- - - - -- - --- --
-- ------ - -  - - ------------- - - - -- - -- -- - -- --- --- - - - -- - --- --
-- ------ - -  - - ------------- - - - -- - -- -- - -- --- --- - - - -- - --- --

Do you have successfully undervolted an XFX card?
I am collecting all information I can before that open brain surgery :-)

It is a 7970 XFX DD (FX-797A-TDFC) with 68.6% ASIC quality.

Please help me avoid the stupidest mistakes. This is my preparation:

  • GPU-Z for reading the ROM
  • VBE7 for editing the ROM
  • ATIWinfFlash for writing the ROM



Some questions:
  • Why is the ROM that I exported with GPU-Z twice as big as the ROM inside the card? Problem?
  • My main goal is setting another VOLTAGE, because cgminer cannot change voltages on this card (change clocks is easy). But still: Why not also change the engine-clock&memclock to what works best for me. Opinions?
  • Which VOLTAGE do you suggest?

(How to calculate/guess an ideal voltage from ASIC quality and clockspeeds?)

Thanks a million!
 Grin Happy New Year!

P.S.: HAVE YOU DONE THIS BEFORE?
Do I simply boot into Windows, and do the ATIWinFlash, or do I prepare the card somehow?

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January 02, 2014, 06:43:04 AM
 #2

No wait. I did this and got it wrong (exact same card). I am far less technically minded than you and most here, so suggest you wait for some differing opinions.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=293872.msg4118646#msg4118646
I'll be working on this today
Why are you undervolting? to get more hash? what are you hashing at now?what do you expect?

drakoin (OP)
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January 02, 2014, 08:39:32 PM
 #3

Thanks for your answer. I take your warning seriously. More research before I do the action :-)

No wait. I did this and got it wrong (exact same card).
Oh, sorry to hear that. Could you repair it?  Perhaps it's only the HDMI, try the DVI? Try booting with another GPU card, then flash the old BIOS back.

I am far less technically minded than you and most here, so suggest you wait for some differing opinions.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=293872.msg4118646#msg4118646
I'll be working on this today
Thanks for the link.

Seemingly people just don't care what make and model it is. Interesting that you can flash an XFX with a gigabyte ROM.
It's not what I would try though. BIOS is not only about clocks and voltages.
I would like to keep my XFX ROM, just tweak a few values, with VBE7.


Why are you undervolting?
We pay 0.35 dollarcents per kWh, second highest in Europe, because solar power and wind energy is highly subsidized here, and all electricity customers have to pay for the "energy shift" to happen. It got us quite far already, over 20% are renewables. Slightly different political concept than funding a huge army to keep energy prices low :-) But what a coinmining paradise the US and Canada must be, at 30% of our kWh-prices.

Electricity costs eat up almost half of my profits.
Every Watt I can save, is really important.


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January 02, 2014, 08:46:57 PM
 #4

I use 1.125v. Don't forget to raise memory overclock up to 1800 (default 1375 which is not enough). My cards are running at 1030/1600 clocks @720 khs.

Also, you can try my bios: http://rghost.ru/51363906
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January 02, 2014, 08:52:25 PM
Last edit: January 02, 2014, 09:18:46 PM by drakoin
 #5

to get more hash? what are you hashing at now?what do you expect?
It's a closed rig, so temperature builds up easily. Higher temperatures eat more Watt over-proportionally (so hotter with more khash might even get me less profit out), and high temperatures will destroy the hardware faster.

That's why I am keeping the temperature at ~74C.
With 277W, I still get 622 khash with these settings (after literally days of optimizing):

Code:
"scrypt" : true,
"gpu-threads" : "2",
"intensity" : "13",
"log" : "2",
"thread-concurrency" : "10240",

"gpu-engine" : "907",
"gpu-memclock" : "1450",
"gpu-powertune" : "20",

"gpu-fan" : "0-85",
"auto-fan" : true,
"temp-cutoff" : "95",
"temp-overheat" : "85",
"temp-target" : "75"

The stock voltage is 1.175 V. Unchangeable with afterburner.
The watt difference on the wall between 7970 enabled and disabled is: 277 W

please please please when publishing your khash optimized settings, always mention the WATT of your settings, and the TEMPERATURE, thx.

And, for your own sake: Read the SCRYPT-README.txt in \cgminer\, it's what gave me ideas how to tune my card. Every card seems to be different.

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January 02, 2014, 08:59:23 PM
 #6

I know you are optimizing for temp / watt, but 7970s only really hit 700+ with a core in the 1000-1100 range.
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January 02, 2014, 09:02:20 PM
Last edit: February 03, 2014, 04:25:32 AM by drakoin
 #7

Thanks a lot, Vizakenjack.
Do you also have the XFX R7970 DD (FX-797A-TDFC ver 6.0)? Mine has ASIC quality 68.6%.

I use 1.125v.
Oh, cool Thanks. Finally a value :-)

Which improvements did that bring?


Don't forget to raise memory overclock up to 1800 (default 1375 which is not enough). My cards are running at 1030/1600 clocks @720 khs.
How hot, and how much Watt?


I am not sure that I want to afford the temperature resulting from such high clockspeeds. And before I get the riser cable, the cards are not venting well. But thanks - I can try, and that's easy because I can do that from cgminer later.

Also, you can try my bios: http://rghost.ru/51363906
Please tell me more about that BIOS, what was the original, which settings did you change?

When I read my ROM into VBE7, I get the following values:

__________________________________________________________________
State 0 - Boot#0CC 925MC 1375VDDC 1175 changeable
State 1 - Performance#1CC 300MC 150VDDC 850 un-changeable
State 1 - Performance#2CC 501MC 1375VDDC 950 un-changeable
State 1 - Performance#0CC 925MC 1375VDDC 1175 changeable
State 2 - UVD#2CC 501MC 1375VDDC 950 un-changeable
State 2 - UVD#0CC 925MC 1375VDDC 1175 changeable
State 3#3CC 300MC 150VDDC 850 un-changeable

What do you suggest for the updated ROM?

Thanks thanks THANKS  Roll Eyes

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January 02, 2014, 10:12:09 PM
 #8

Thanks a lot, Vizakenjack.
Do you also have the XFX R7970 DD (FX-797A-TDFC ver 6.0)? Mine has ASIC quality 68.6%.
Yes, i have the same one. I don't know about asic quality, i'm running it on bamt.

Quote
I use 1.125v.
Oh, cool Thanks. Finally a value :-)

Which improvements did that bring?

How hot, and how much Watt?
Lowering temp by 5-10º, its now 80-90º (not on raisers, just a two cards in two pcie slots). Yes, it's very hot, but stable though.

I don't know about watts, because I haven't power meter -(

Quote
Please tell me more about that BIOS, what was the original, which settings did you change?
yes, it's original with my mods, you can open it in VBE and read. It's overclocked by default.

Also, if you need almost 'vanilla' bios, try this one: http://rghost.ru/51365056
It comes with reduced voltage and removed cap of memory overclock.
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January 03, 2014, 04:08:53 AM
Last edit: January 03, 2014, 04:36:22 AM by drakoin
 #9

SUCCESS!
Even a cheap XFX 7970 can be pushed to performance, and without burning it on 90C temperature!
This is not khash-optimization, but khash/Watt - optimization. So below 700khash/s, I am already very happy.


With VBE7 ... I changed only "State 0 - Boot":
Original: #0          CC 925     MC 1375     VDDC 1175    
MyChange: #0CC 750MC 1050VDDC 1025

Flashing the BIOS (with atiwinflash) took much more than 1 minute, and the progress bar got stuck at 20% and didn't move for ages - it was terrifying! Finally, it said: Successful; then reboot, no driver update necessary! New cgminer measurements (measured Watt are differences enable/disable, on top of small power for idle card):

The improvement is amazing:
Before:     1.175V     CC  907     MC 1450     72C     fan 75%     267W     619khash/s    
1stOptim:1.025VCC 1000MC 158572Cfan 59%222W691khash/s

So on the same temperature, with less fan speed, I get 12% more khash/s for 17% less electricity.
khash/Watt went up from 2.32 to 3.11 - that's like getting 4 cards coins value out of 3 cards power costs.

YIEHAH!

Now I let it run for a night, to see how stable it is.

This is the way:
0) Reboot, clean system, e.g. no cgminer started.
1) With CPU-Z read out the original ROM, make several copies.
2) With VBE7 change voltage & clockspeeds, save to new filename.
3) With ATIwinflash program the modified ROM, shiver for more than a minute. Reboot.
4) Tweak, fiddle, optimize. A Watt-meter costs 9 euros.

Disclaimer: At your own risk. Inform yourself well.
I spent 2 days of research before I dared to do this. But:

YIPPIEH, I DID IT.
 Cheesy

P.S.: If you find this useful, you can tip me at: BTC 15UipUK3kGcArJzRyHbVKrwG5TsqYi1b9N



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January 03, 2014, 04:53:15 AM
 #10

watch

1DP6hkRCNoxE15QFfyeqxRk1qu7gX4FzGS
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January 03, 2014, 05:29:22 AM
 #11

Can you push that ram a bit more? Hash rate tends to be proportional to ram clock, if the bios doesn't introduce higher latencies at higher clocks. Mine can handle up to 1800 Mhz (unstable) and 1750 (24h solid).

Could you post a screenshot of GPU-z "Sensors" tab, scrolled down to the bottom, while mining? Thanks.

Edit: with undervolting, you're pulling ~700 Kh/s out of a XFX? Hmm...

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drakoin (OP)
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January 03, 2014, 02:43:13 PM
 #12

Just a quick alert:

Now I let it run for a night, to see how stable it is.

NOT.

When I have stable values, I will report them back to you.

This time I will "log to file" in GPU-Z, because I don't even know how many hours it stayed stable.


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January 05, 2014, 06:37:24 AM
Last edit: January 05, 2014, 06:39:17 PM by drakoin
 #13

Almost there. Note to self: Don't try to tweak two cards at the same time  Roll Eyes

The above 7970-XFX card (7970 XFX DD  {FX-797A-TDFC} with 68.6% ASIC quality)
seems stable now, 24 hours running without problems on these settings:

Code:
"gpu-vddc" :          "1.035",
"gpu-engine" :         "1025",
"gpu-memclock":        "1635",
"temp-target" :          "72",
"auto-fan" :             true,
Code:
"gpu-powertune":         "20",
"thread-concurrency" : "8192",
"intensity" :            "13",
"gpu-threads" :           "2",
"log" :                   "2",
"scrypt" :               true

performing 692 khash/s at 240W above disabled GPU. 2.88 khash/Watt.
Instead of the 2.32 khash/Watt (already optimized but) with stock voltage 1.175 Volts.

Through undervolting by 0.140 Volts, I save 10% electricity and gain 12% hashrate.

 Cheesy  Juhu!


Could you post a screenshot of GPU-z "Sensors" tab, scrolled down to the bottom, while mining? Thanks.

sure, is this what you are looking for? Why? What is your concern?


P.S.: If you find this useful, you can tip me at: BTC 15UipUK3kGcArJzRyHbVKrwG5TsqYi1b9N

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January 05, 2014, 08:02:22 AM
 #14

undervolting the PowerColor 7850, too - documented some logfile riddles here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=392098.msg4321340#msg4321340

 Tongue

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January 05, 2014, 08:20:47 AM
 #15

I suggest try value like these....I'm pretty happy with them.....temperature and fan are quite and power usage is about 180W x card.
Voltage is ok on my cards but on yours could be different .....you have to try go down with Voltage until it doesn't work anymore.
I suggest using MSI afterburner to find best setting and yhen flash them with atiFlash+VBE7


GPU 1: 625.1 / 629.2 Kh/s | A:26823  R:231  HW:0  U:31.28/m  I:13
58.0 C  F: 51% (2055 RPM)  E: 915 MHz  M: 960 Mhz  V: 0.981V  A: 99%  P: 0%
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January 05, 2014, 06:36:17 PM
 #16

Thanks, mine2mind112, I have tried your suggestion:

GPU 1: 625.1 Kh/s
E: 915 MHz  M: 960 Mhz  

When I lower the Memclock to your 960 MHz, the hashrate falls to 272 khash/s

Are those really your values?
What is the exact name of your GPU card?
What are the other settings (thread-concurrency, etc.)?


GPU 1: 625.1 / 629.2 Kh/s | A:26823  R:231  HW:0  U:31.28/m  I:13
what is "U:" ?
My cgminer 3.7.2 shows WU:584.1/m

58.0 C  F: 51% (2055 RPM)  E: 915 MHz  M: 960 Mhz  V: 0.981V  A: 99%  P: 0%
I agree that would be nice temperature and fanspeed - but at 272/691 = 39% of my current hashrate - no!


I suggest try value like these....I'm pretty happy with them.....temperature and fan are quite and power usage is about 180W x card.
Voltage is ok on my cards but on yours could be different .....you have to try go down with Voltage until it doesn't work anymore.
I suggest using MSI afterburner to find best setting and yhen flash them with atiFlash+VBE7

I measured your settings, and they result in 128W above the base power usage (when the card is (d)isabled). That's a lot less power than my 240W.  Your 272khash/128W = 2.13 are not too bad, really. But still 26% below my best performing settings.


But you give me an inspiration. If the rig itself doesn't use too much (which in my case it does), and you put enough cards into one rig, it might actually make sense to underclock cheap cards; get out much less coins, but also use much less electricity. Perhaps with colder temperatures there is a sweet spot better than my 2.88 = khash/Watt? But if the GPU cards are too expensive to buy, that would not make sense, because then you want a highest as possible hashpower. 

So: Your settings inspire to optimize for someone with VERY high electricity costs, e.g. on Tonga, or the Solomon islands ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_pricing ) - but who gets computer hardware for free  Grin

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January 06, 2014, 08:24:18 AM
 #17

Yes are my value (when i see them i did't belive myself).

My rigs are 3x VTX HD 7970 X-Ediction and 4x Sapphire R9 280x Dual-X.

The "U:" not sure what is....it is reported when u are mining and click "G" for modify Video cards setting.

I would point out that 6 month ago i could not get these value.Recently I reinstall the rig with new drivers and cgminer 3.7.2.

try to put Engine to 900 and Mem to 910, then you go up with Mem 920, then 930 ecc...you should find a spot where you are about 600 Khash/s.



280x rig is about 760 Watt
7970 rig is about 600 Watt

In the photo I' m not using 900 how engine but a little more....900 is just a point I use to start.

Hope this can help.
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January 06, 2014, 08:39:47 AM
 #18

What are the other settings (thread-concurrency, etc.)?
Tc = 8192
I = 13
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January 06, 2014, 09:05:21 AM
 #19

Here's how I do it on several XFX 280X :

1. After testing many different frequencies I found that my cards run best at 1050 core and default 1500 memory giving about 730kH/s. Yes some of them might be able to run at slightly higher frequencies but I think it is best to liming power consumption and temperatures instead of going for max performance.
2. Alter the voltage with Sapphire Trixx until I find a voltage at which the cards are stable (at 1050@1500), usually 1.15V, but one of the cards required 1.175V
3. Edit the bios and flash the cards with the modified bios using atiflash (under DOS).

My cards consume about 230W each and run at steady 730kH/s. Temperature is about 72-73C with fan at up to 80%. Note that every card is different and I found some of them running at higher or lower actual voltage at the same bios value. Also I found that some cards tend to show higher temperature readings without actually consuming more power, so this is definitely caused by differences in the quality of the cooling or how it contacts with the GPU.

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drakoin (OP)
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January 06, 2014, 10:08:03 PM
 #20

I did try your settings, and they resulted in similar power consumption yes - but only 272khash.

I would point out that 6 month ago i could not get these value.
THAT is really interesting - and perhaps an explanation?
Perhaps you have "trained" your cards into high performance?

At which (approximate) settings have you had them running in those 6 months, before you reinstalled and readjusted? And which power consumption and temperature?


Recently I reinstall the rig with new drivers and cgminer 3.7.2.
Which catalyst drivers?


Yes are my value (when i see them i did't belive myself).
My rigs are 3x VTX HD 7970 X-Ediction and 4x Sapphire R9 280x Dual-X.
The "U:" not sure what is....it is reported when u are mining and click "G" for modify Video cards setting.
try to put Engine to 900 and Mem to 910, then you go up with Mem 920, then 930 ecc...you should find a spot where you are about 600 Khash/s.

In the photo I' m not using 900 how engine but a little more....900 is just a point I use to start.

If only I would get even close to 500, it would be fantastic.

280x rig is about 760 Watt
7970 rig is about 600 Watt

Amazing. With that you could even mine for Danish electricity prices :-)

Tc = 8192
I = 13
Same here.

For a while I had Tc = 10240, 11264  on my 7970 and 7850 - because that was the max multiple of shaders that didn't result in kernel errors.
But then very often, both cards would just not start at full power, always one of them hovering at 30khash.  
It took me ages to find out this solution, and that it is not a lack of power (I have funny cabling in my old machine):
Tc = 8192, 8192 works perfectly. It's only using 1072MB of the 3GB of my 7970, and I don't understand that - but it's fine.



hmmm ... we really need to find out how you are able
to drive your cards up to such high khash for so little
clockspeed = temperature = Watt = electricity costs.

Let's save half of the electricity of the worldwide GPU grid!


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