[SOLD OUT] Ninja Group Buy .35BTC=30GH - 30 ANTs + Day 1 Netpune [0/300]

[tertius993]

Interesting. What is our delivery date for the Neptune?

As an aside it does seem slightly incongruous to have a cloud mining pool, outsourcing to another cloud mining pool ...

[MWNinja]

Looks like we got ourselves a really good deal witn KnC

Taken from their email (now probably already on their website ):

Plan B

As you are all aware we broke many world records in releasing the 28nm chip in such a short amount of time. We are a very ambitious company but even for us, to go “all in” and not be able to deliver on our performance targets, like our competition, would be completely unacceptable to us as a company and everything we stand for. So today we are introducing, Plan B.
 
To make sure that everyone who has paid for their Neptune we are building a data centre like no other. It is located in the north of Sweden not far from Facebook and other Mega Data Centres and it’s totally powered by renewable energy.
 
Over the next few months we are bringing online enough hashing power to make sure that any delay in the Neptune timeline will be compensated with a completely free hosted hashing packages to all fully paid customers.
 
In the addition to this commitment, as part of Plan B, for all Neptune customers, we will be offering a free conversion to a hosted hashing package where we will simply fill your wallets directly and you won’t have to worry about anything else. All the other costs taken care of by us. We are able to do this by using our 28nm chips which is why all products that we have coming out of our factory in the next few months will go into building and supplying the Plan B facility.
 
If, during the course of development of Neptune, there is any threat to the timelines for delivery, those delays will not result in the loss of any mining time for our Neptune customers. We will release more details of this as we get closer to the delivery date, but for now we have one of the world’s largest data centres to build.

Looks like a good deal to me; KNC are totally legit. Group #1 has one of the first Neptune orders; while group 2-3 have some of the last units sold.  I wish we had bought more of them ~ they were sold out before I could get an order in for Group #4.

[howardb]

I just made the mistake of actually re-reading the offer, and this caught my eye:

"You agree as a group buy owner to host your hardware with us for a total period of at least 120 days. If at any time thereafter the weekly earnings of the miners are insufficient to pay the hosting fees, the group buy owners shall make up the difference in USD. Non-payment of hosting fees/deficit will result in forfeiture of ownership rights to the hosted hardware. Any and all payments are due when invoiced; 30 days late constitutes default and will result in forfeiture of your fractional ownership."

Unless my barrack room lawyer skills are slipping MWNinja, you have effectively created an open ended clause that guarentees that come the inevtiable day when difficulty is so high that the miners do not even cover the hosting fee's, we have to make up the difference in dollars INDEFINATELY or let the ownership revert to you.

Not sure about your laws in US, but in UK that clause would almost certainly be rendered invalid by any court under 'unfair terms and conditions'. I suggest you propose to the group a more moderate/fair clause which specifies the viability conditions under which miners would be de-hosted and optionally returned to owners or sold with cash distributed to owners like other GB's.

[EnJoyThis]

I just made the mistake of actually re-reading the offer, and this caught my eye:

"You agree as a group buy owner to host your hardware with us for a total period of at least 120 days. If at any time thereafter the weekly earnings of the miners are insufficient to pay the hosting fees, the group buy owners shall make up the difference in USD. Non-payment of hosting fees/deficit will result in forfeiture of ownership rights to the hosted hardware. Any and all payments are due when invoiced; 30 days late constitutes default and will result in forfeiture of your fractional ownership."

Unless my barrack room lawyer skills are slipping MWNinja, you have effectively created an open ended clause that guarentees that come the inevtiable day when difficulty is so high that the miners do not even cover the hosting fee's, we have to make up the difference in dollars INDEFINATELY or let the ownership revert to you.

Not sure about your laws in US, but in UK that clause would almost certainly be rendered invalid by any court under 'unfair terms and conditions'. I suggest you propose to the group a more moderate/fair clause which specifies the viability conditions under which miners would be de-hosted and optionally returned to owners or sold with cash distributed to owners like other GB's.

Perhaps you should re-read some more.

If you own a multiple of 10x shares, you may choose to take physical possession of your hardware, after the initial 120 day period. NOC fee and shipping fee NTE $99 per unit apply.

[howardb]

I just made the mistake of actually re-reading the offer, and this caught my eye:

"You agree as a group buy owner to host your hardware with us for a total period of at least 120 days. If at any time thereafter the weekly earnings of the miners are insufficient to pay the hosting fees, the group buy owners shall make up the difference in USD. Non-payment of hosting fees/deficit will result in forfeiture of ownership rights to the hosted hardware. Any and all payments are due when invoiced; 30 days late constitutes default and will result in forfeiture of your fractional ownership."

Unless my barrack room lawyer skills are slipping MWNinja, you have effectively created an open ended clause that guarentees that come the inevtiable day when difficulty is so high that the miners do not even cover the hosting fee's, we have to make up the difference in dollars INDEFINATELY or let the ownership revert to you.

Not sure about your laws in US, but in UK that clause would almost certainly be rendered invalid by any court under 'unfair terms and conditions'. I suggest you propose to the group a more moderate/fair clause which specifies the viability conditions under which miners would be de-hosted and optionally returned to owners or sold with cash distributed to owners like other GB's.

Perhaps you should re-read some more.

If you own a multiple of 10x shares, you may choose to take physical possession of your hardware, after the initial 120 day period. NOC fee and shipping fee NTE $99 per unit apply.

Thanks, I was aware of that, but as most member of group buys only own fractions of a server, it doesn't really help them does it?

[MWNinja]

The terms are pretty standard for colocation services, and are a flow down of the security clause in our contract with the data center. Basically if we don't pay the bills they seize our equipment. Storage facilities also work on the same terms.  Once the equipment is obsolete and can't pay it's own bills, it won't have much value anyhow.

[tripppn]

Nah...That's when we sell it on ebay... someone will buy it.  People are still spending 200-300 for Jallys and 30 for block erupters.

[howardb]

The terms are pretty standard for colocation services, and are a flow down of the security clause in our contract with the data center. Basically if we don't pay the bills they seize our equipment. Storage facilities also work on the same terms.  Once the equipment is obsolete and can't pay it's own bills, it won't have much value anyhow.

Hi, I can understand trying to back to back the terms, and thats not unreasonable, however, it's the open ended bit thats problematic. At the moment it reads that hosting WILL continue indefinately EVEN WHEN the miners don't cover the hosting fees. Having a clause to invoke de-hosting in that event would seem sane, otherwise you get a scenario of (say) billing everyone first month a shortfall happens and a certain percentage don't pay, and then rolling right into another month of non-profitable mining with a subsequent additional hosting invoices get sent out which (apart from whole machine owners) I would imagine would largely go unpaid.

See what I mean? You need a clear and concise statement on how/when mining and hosting ends, and what happens to residual kit value for fractional owners that have not taken up the option  of having a machine delivered.

[tertius993]

A suggestion for the stats page - show the total amount paid out (i.e. The sum of the weekly distributions) immediately underneath the "Total BTC earned" figure. It would make tracking the current week's earnings much easier.

Could even net off the two and show the result as "Current week:"

[MWNinja]

The terms are pretty standard for colocation services, and are a flow down of the security clause in our contract with the data center. Basically if we don't pay the bills they seize our equipment. Storage facilities also work on the same terms.  Once the equipment is obsolete and can't pay it's own bills, it won't have much value anyhow.

Hi, I can understand trying to back to back the terms, and thats not unreasonable, however, it's the open ended bit thats problematic. At the moment it reads that hosting WILL continue indefinately EVEN WHEN the miners don't cover the hosting fees. Having a clause to invoke de-hosting in that event would seem sane, otherwise you get a scenario of (say) billing everyone first month a shortfall happens and a certain percentage don't pay, and then rolling right into another month of non-profitable mining with a subsequent additional hosting invoices get sent out which (apart from whole machine owners) I would imagine would largely go unpaid.

See what I mean? You need a clear and concise statement on how/when mining and hosting ends, and what happens to residual kit value for fractional owners that have not taken up the option  of having a machine delivered.

The terms in the offering are very clear and concise, and are what is binding ~ we are upfront about this possible worst case. We are looking at options to provide liquidity, such as ownership transfer, buyback, trade-in, paid & free upgrades using our namecoin revenue, and more. Currently owners get preferred pricing on future group buys as an additional benefit.

A suggestion for the stats page - show the total amount paid out (i.e. The sum of the weekly distributions) immediately underneath the "Total BTC earned" figure. It would make tracking the current week's earnings much easier.

Could even net off the two and show the result as "Current week:"

Great idea and it should't be too hard to implement.

[FrankToil]

OK Gang. Presented for your amusement, an IPython notebook I wrote to calculate some quantities of interest to me (weekly earnings, percent of investment returned to date, etc.) from my participation in Group Buys 1, 2, and 3.  I hope it helps you, but you are on your own!

It appears that this forum software does not support attachments to posts. Please find the notebook at https://bitbucket.org/FrankToil/coinscraper/raw/77afbaac648eecc1c394c6c4e4306d455ef8a1b4/CoinScraper.ipynb ...

Documentation (copied verbatim from the notebook):
This IPython notebook accounts for the BTC mining revenue from the MWNinja Group Buys by screen-scraping the website(s) and then performing auxiliary calculations.
THIS CODE IS RELEASED INTO THE PUBLIC DOMAIN.

That means that you are free to use it (or ignore it) in any way you see fit, I bear no responsibility whatsoever for it, and if it breaks, you get to keep the pieces.

It is not exactly user friendly, (in other words, it is a total hack, in the "works for me as a programmer" category) but it does get the job done.

To use it, first you need to make sure that you have a Python environment (tested on 2.7) with IPython http://ipython.org/ to run the notebook in. Place this notebook in its own directory, invoke IPython like so "ipython notebook" and a tab should pop up in your browser saying IPython Dashboard. In that tab should be a single link called "CoinScraper". Click on it, and the notbebook itself will pop up in another tab with this documentation in the first "cell".

To actually run the code, you also need three libraries installed: BeautifulSoup4 http://www.crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/ (tested on whatever "pip install" pulled about a week back...); requests http://docs.python-requests.org/en/latest/ (ditto for "pip install"); and numpy http://www.numpy.org/.

You will need to modify several things in the next cell (Use The Source, Luke!) to account for how many shares you bought, what price you paid, which groups you participated in, etc.

Once all of that has been setup properly for your specific situation, you run the next cell to initialize the code, then run the following cells in order to scrape the info from MWNinja's websites. (To run a cell, you type "Shift Return" which is an IPython-ism.) You must make sure that the URLS in the scraping cells match the appropriate group buys.

The last executable cell performs the calculations of interest to me personally. (Those calculations do not account for the cases where some shares were pro-rated, like in GB#1, and GB#2. But for my purposes they are "good enough".) Feel free to modify to suit your own requirements!

[r4square]

Payout expected today?

[xZork]

Just happened a bit ago. Another week of bad luck, you win some you lose some.

Payout expected today?

[MWNinja]

Dividend - Week #4
Total Earnings: 8.2BTC Payout Addr
Total Shares: 300
Hosting fees: 0
Amount per share:   0.0277
Tx Fee: .0035 Transaction
Notes:Despite an increase in difficulty, we earned about as much as the week before.

[MWNinja]

Don't miss Group Buy #5, the thread is hiding in alt-currency land.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=453536.0

Oh and asiabtc has the Gridseed Asic running aroung 500kh/s per usb unit; we're going to have 160 of them

[dunchy]

Thanks for the coding effort FrankToil!

[FrankToil]

Thanks for the coding effort FrankToil!

No worries!  All pull requests will be considered! ;-)

[FrankToil]

OK, I'm waiting to see the exact conversion rate MWNinja used to charge for hosting, and then I'll modify the code to reflect/project that cost for the next week's revenue.

I know that Ninja had an extremely busy day yesterday (moving GB#1 equipment to the new cage, etc.) so this will happen when it happens...

FrankToil

[MWNinja]

Dividend - Week #5
Total Earnings: 7.44682813BTC Payout Addr
Total Shares: 300
Hosting fees: 2.04 $4.49x300@$660/BTC
Amount per share:   0.01802
Tx Fee: .0095 Transaction

[tripppn]

Dividend - Week #5
Total Earnings: 7.44682813BTC Payout Addr
Total Shares: 300
Hosting fees: 2.04 $4.49x300@$660/BTC
Amount per share:   0.01802
Tx Fee: .0095 Transaction

Ouch.  Big hit this week