Why do people think income tax is ok?

[Elwar]

People supported slavery too.

And when they talked about it, they always talked about the benefits...not the use of force against humans.

[apsvinet]

People supported slavery too.

And when they talked about it, they always talked about the benefits...not the use of force against humans.

>Compare taxes to slavery
>Think you're making a point
>Look like a giant douche

The difference between slavery and taxes is that not all people were directly affected by
slavery, it was discrimination towards a specific group of people.

[Hawker]

People supported slavery too.

And when they talked about it, they always talked about the benefits...not the use of force against humans.

>Compare taxes to slavery
>Think you're making a point
>Look like a giant douche

The difference between slavery and taxes is that not all people were directly affected by
slavery, it was discrimination towards a specific group of people.

There are other differences.  Taxes finance common goods for all society.  Taxes are paid by those who can afford them - slavery was imposed at random on whoever happened to be captured that day or happened to be born a slave.  Taxes are a minor inconvenience that people bitch about but never do anything to change.  Slavery destroyed lives and  people risked death and torture to escape.  

I could go on.

[apsvinet]

People supported slavery too.

And when they talked about it, they always talked about the benefits...not the use of force against humans.

>Compare taxes to slavery
>Think you're making a point
>Look like a giant douche

The difference between slavery and taxes is that not all people were directly affected by
slavery, it was discrimination towards a specific group of people.

There are other differences.  Taxes finance common goods for all society.  Taxes are paid by those who can afford them - slavery was imposed at random on whoever happened to be captured that day or happened to be born a slave.  Taxes are a minor inconvenience that people bitch about but never do anything to change.  Slavery destroyed lives and  people risked death and torture to escape.  

I could go on.

Rofl, of course there are other differences, I only stated the one that was relevant to the point he was trying to make.

[westkybitcoins]

For those wanting to focus specifically on income tax vs. other taxes, and not wanting to get mired down in the idea of more/less/no taxes:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=526816.0

[Balthazar]

Why do people think income tax is ok?

Because the slavery it's their dream. They wish to serve someone and receive some cookies for their hard work. The most of the people unable to use own freedom properly, it's the reason why democracy won't work ever. Democracy is a myth, even more ridiculous than implementation of communism through the revolution.

[apsvinet]

Why do people think income tax is ok?

Because the slavery it's their dream. They wish to serve someone and receive some cookie for their hard work.

The most of the people unable to use own freedom properly, it's the reason why democracy won't work ever. Democracy is a myth, even more ridiculous than implementation of communism through the revolution.

Why do I keep getting surprises these are the general opinions of all the keyboard heroes of an internet forum. Sigh.

[Balthazar]

Why do people think income tax is ok?

Because the slavery it's their dream. They wish to serve someone and receive some cookies for their hard work. The most of the people unable to use own freedom properly, it's the reason why democracy won't work ever. Democracy is a myth, even more ridiculous than implementation of communism through the revolution.

By the way, there are many ways to resolve tax issue. The most of taxes could be replaced with voluntary investments, for example... Government is able to emit a special obligations for this purposes. It will help to fight corruption, because invested money are much harder to steal.

[Elwar]

People supported slavery too.

And when they talked about it, they always talked about the benefits...not the use of force against humans.

>Compare taxes to slavery
>Think you're making a point
>Look like a giant douche

The difference between slavery and taxes is that not all people were directly affected by
slavery, it was discrimination towards a specific group of people.

So using force against humans is only bad when used towards a specific group of people?

[Patron92]

If there is no income tax how is it possible to  improve the welfare of society?

[Elwar]

If there is no income tax how is it possible to  improve the welfare of society?

There are plenty of people with those answers...but, how would YOU do it?

In the age of information, knowledge is a choice.

[apsvinet]

If there is no income tax how is it possible to  improve the welfare of society?

There are plenty of people with those answers...but, how would YOU do it?

In the age of information, knowledge is a choice.

I don't know… maybe with taxes? Lol, the system seems to be working fine, apart from some hardcore super liberal anarchists hiding on the internet using their hardcore crypto currency, people don't seem to complain. Mainly Americans who think their taxes are "too high", then the next day they go on complaining about health care being "too expensive". Can't make everyone happy!

[westkybitcoins]

If there is no income tax how is it possible to  improve the welfare of society?

At the very least... other taxes.

EDIT: Again, if you live in a Western society, you might be surprised at how little of your income tax actually goes toward "improving the welfare of society."

[Garryashas]

In my opinion roads, police, fire services couldn't be built/services be offered without government involvement!

[countryfree]

If there is no income tax how is it possible to  improve the welfare of society?

Improve the well-being of citizens! This is exactly what Putin had in mind when he decided to annex Crimea. It will be better for the Russians living there, and f*ck the Ukrainians. It has always amazed me that when people see how bad the world is, they keep on dreaming about an enlightened leader who will take their money (their freedom, too), and make it a better place. Unfortunately, this doesn't happen.

[apsvinet]

In my opinion roads, police, fire services couldn't be built/services be offered without government involvement!

Of course they couldn't. Imagine a private police, that acts on the behalf of whoever pays them the most. I wanna know if all the hardcore liberal anarchists lurking on this forum would like to live in that community.

[Elwar]

In my opinion roads, police, fire services couldn't be built/services be offered without government involvement!

Opinion based on ignorance.

There are already such things without government involvement. Hell, my fire department is private. Sheep only see the sheep's ass in front of them and think that that is the world they need to follow.

Again, people are ok with using force against humans as long as there is some benefit. Like with slavery.

[Hawker]

In my opinion roads, police, fire services couldn't be built/services be offered without government involvement!

Opinion based on ignorance.

There are already such things without government involvement. Hell, my fire department is private. Sheep only see the sheep's ass in front of them and think that that is the world they need to follow.

Again, people are ok with using force against humans as long as there is some benefit. Like with slavery.

Sort of a one note musician aren't you?

Being a free citizen is not the same as slavery.  You may argue that the difference is just one of degree - but that degree is so vast that that you may as well compare shaving to being skinned alive.

[westkybitcoins]

considering every basic need of every individual an entitlement is called...

...basic morality. People have a right to life, and they need food and healthcare to live.

Sure, people have a right to life. But if they have inadequate food and healthcare, how am I suddenly obligated to work however hard is required to provide it for them? There's a difference between charity and entitlement. Charitable giving is moral. Forced entitlements are not. The idea that one can be said to have any sort of morality when they're forced to do something is a bit odd, really.

socialism is immoral, inefficient, and unsustainable.

[citation needed]

Source: common sense

So the schools and police will be better funded in wealthy areas where they already have low crime rates and good schools? Nice.

Yes. Rich people can afford to pay more for nicer things; that's life. Even if payment for those things was switched to income taxes, it wouldn't end the disparity (due to private schools and private security forces,) so demanding income redistribution to address the inequity seems a little disingenuous.

Education and protection under the law are basic human rights. Giving the children of the rich a better education than the children of the poor just entrenches the advantage they already have. The whole point of funding them via income tax is that the wealthy are forced to subsidise education and protection for those who can't afford it.

You said the point was to address inequity. Income taxes don't do that so long as private schools and private security are an option (and really, they always will be.) The rich don't have to be given better stuff, they just buy it.

So if the inequity will continue to exist, what's the problem with using property taxes rather than income taxes if one is to fund public schools?

Nothing close to a solid argument to justify an income tax yet.

Do you really mean income tax, or is your problem really with any tax where the rich pay progressively more than the poor?

I have a problem with all taxes.

But if taxes are going to exist, there are far better options than income taxes, regardless of whether regressive or progressive. One would think the intrusiveness alone should cause people to demand a change; but I suppose once people become use to a status quo, it will be defended, regardless of the wrongness of it.

The alternatives to income tax you've proposed don't have any advantages other than fixing the 'problem' that the rich seem to be paying more than the poor without getting as much in return.

Yes, that is a problem. If you're going to justify taxes by saying it's "for society," then how in the world does paying more but getting the same make any sense? If I'm your neighbor, and we use the same public school system (let's presume that this is someplace that income taxes actually pay for schools,) and it costs $X to pay for that school, there's several different ways to split up the cost of that. The only possible rationales for making those with higher incomes pay more are ideological: that they "should" pay more. It's a common opinion, but it's one that turns simple theft into wealth redistribution.

Justifying taxes is one thing. Justifying wealth redistribution is another.

Your system of taxes just brings us closer to everyone paying for themselves, which by your own admission is what you want anyway.

Of course. That's the ideal, after all.

[westkybitcoins]

In my opinion roads, police, fire services couldn't be built/services be offered without government involvement!

Opinion based on ignorance.

There are already such things without government involvement. Hell, my fire department is private.

MOST fire departments in the U.S. are private. This again illustrates the large gap between perception and reality for many people when it comes to what they want/think/expect of government, and what actually occurs.

(Also, yes, there are plenty of private roads and gated communities with their own security forces in the U.S. Guess that should be pointed out too.)

Again, people are ok with using force against humans as long as there is some benefit. Like with slavery.

That's really the bottom line. As long as I claim positive benefits for someone/everyone, and don't mistreat you too badly (or at least sweep the messes under the rug and just wave them off with "well, most people pay taxes, they should have too,") then I have some moral right to steal from you. 

Double standards. Double standards everywhere!