Why do people think income tax is ok?

[2bfree]

The power to tax is the power to destroy. I think income tax and property tax are just wrong. What do you think?

[Vod]

The power to tax is the power to destroy. I think income tax and property tax are just wrong. What do you think?

Roads, police, fire services?

[notig]

I think people can get accustomed to a certain amount of enslavement. Even slaves are somewehat accustomed to their situation. It's only when you go from one situation to a really escalated  or different situation that people seem to have problems. They don't realize how offensive an income tax is because they have always had to pay one. They don't question it.

[notig]

heh we are getting hit with tax on the earning side... and on the spending side. And inbetween (saving side aka inflation) . Then we get hit with taxes on the step after the spending side also known as the ownership side. Government is like an organism... it seeks to eat and devour and grow bigger and clutch at everything it can so that it can survive and get bigger and devour more.  Government and freedom are inversely proportional... the more government you have the less freedom you have. Taxes and government are directly proportional so the more taxes you have the more government you have. Therefore the more taxes you have the less freedom you ultimately have.

[notig]

Roads, police, fire services?

Do you honestly believe that, in today's world, those things couldn't be built/services be offered without government involvement?

Even if you do feel we need a government to build/provide these things, tax spending not income, and especially not fucking both...

Even if you did need those things those are state issues.... yet the federal part of the government takes the most

[dotcom]

The power to tax is the power to destroy. I think income tax and property tax are just wrong. What do you think?

Roads, police, fire services?

ROOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[CoinCube]

The masses at some level correctly realize that without some intervention wealth progressively concentrates in a few hands at the top of the pyramid/food chain/bankers of the world.
Without some form of redistribution this concentration results in all economic/political power concentrated in a few hands (another type of slavery at least for the average joe).
One could argue we are pretty close to this already. Income tax's are tolerated/supported by the populace because they are seen as needed redistribution.

[Lethn]

The power to tax is the power to destroy. I think income tax and property tax are just wrong. What do you think?

Roads, police, fire services?

Nuclear Bombs, Military Industrial Complex, Secret Police, Surveillance, establishment of dictatorships in other countries

Yes, I do believe it's wrong, the good government achieves all it does through the stealing of other peoples wealth ( which is wrong in itself ) but it is completely outweighed by the amount of atrocities government commits across the world.

[Anon136]

Its a sub conscious defense mechanism against the rage and helplessness that they would feel if they comprehended in a visceral way how much of their birthright has been stolen from them. Were it not for the wealth destroyed by government the least skilled workers would probably be making over 100 grand a year. Mcdonalds employees would likely be able to afford to drive lower end ferraries if they worked a lot of hours and sacrificed other lugusuries. Or alternatively if you preferred than you could chose to be poor and scrape by with all the food you need, a decent computer, a 1 room apartment on a 6 hour work week. Or perhaps you could work your butt off and become successful in real career and retire at 27. Once you comprehend just how much has been stolen from you over such a long time period, its hard for the human mind to come to terms with it, so our subconscious shields us from that pain.

[hilariousandco]

The power to tax is the power to destroy. I think income tax and property tax are just wrong. What do you think?

Roads, police, fire services?

Nuclear Bombs, Military Industrial Complex, Secret Police, Surveillance, establishment of dictatorships in other countries

Yes, I do believe it's wrong, the good government achieves all it does through the stealing of other peoples wealth ( which is wrong in itself ) but it is completely outweighed by the amount of atrocities government commits across the world.

I think taxes are great, as long as they're spent on things that benefit the people and not on the war machine and laundering money to corporations. I'd happily even pay more tax for more schools more hospitals, free education and other free services etc. The tax brackets also need to be fair and I don't agree with punishing the rich with ridiculous taxes either.

[guybrushthreepwood]

Roads, police, fire services?

Do you honestly believe that, in today's world, those things couldn't be built/services be offered without government involvement?

Even if you do feel we need a government to build/provide these things, tax spending not income, and especially not fucking both...

How would we build them? If they got rid of income tax we'd just end up paying the difference on ridiculously expensive tax-inflated items.

[Lethn]

Roads, police, fire services?

Do you honestly believe that, in today's world, those things couldn't be built/services be offered without government involvement?

Even if you do feel we need a government to build/provide these things, tax spending not income, and especially not fucking both...

How would we build them? If they got rid of income tax we'd just end up paying the difference on ridiculously expensive tax-inflated items.

.... That doesn't make any sense? Tax-inflated items? If you didn't have taxes you wouldn't pay any extra tax on that sort of thing you'd just pay for the items by themselves.

[guybrushthreepwood]

Roads, police, fire services?

Do you honestly believe that, in today's world, those things couldn't be built/services be offered without government involvement?

Even if you do feel we need a government to build/provide these things, tax spending not income, and especially not fucking both...

How would we build them? If they got rid of income tax we'd just end up paying the difference on ridiculously expensive tax-inflated items.

.... That doesn't make any sense? Tax-inflated items? If you didn't have taxes you wouldn't pay any extra tax on that sort of thing you'd just pay for the items by themselves.

I meant getting rid of income taxes as the user I quoted above suggested.

[Lethn]

Oh well, I'm talking about getting rid of all taxes

[hilariousandco]

Oh well, I'm talking about getting rid of all taxes

What system do you propose for paying for schools, roads, hospitals, emergency services etc?

[Lethn]

Oh well, I'm talking about getting rid of all taxes

What system do you propose for paying for schools, roads, hospitals, emergency services etc?

Either local government where people voluntarily give their money ( Like state government or Local Council depending on which country you're in ) the trick is not forcing it on anyone and then also people can just get together and hire a crew to build it or you could do corporate sponsorship, since advertising is already used a lot on roads why not use that revenue to support the building of them? There are of course more direct methods like toll roads and frankly if you're going to bitch about that sort of thing then you're a cheap skate because I'd rather pay for it on a voluntary basis than be forced to pay for it or go to jail.

The trick is not forcing anyone to pay for it, you do that and you'll have a lot less resentment about building infrastructure and free healthcare, you might even have people going out of their way to support it like with a charity, oh yeah as long as it's run properly I have nothing against charities either, just so many of them are corrupt now and take a large cut of what's donated to them. It's only natural that when you threaten people with violence if they resist that people start hating the idea of giving money to the people threatening them.

Take Sean's Outpost as a living example of what can be done in a voluntary society as well people are quite happy to give that charity Bitcoin and yet according to your logic, if there were no taxes nobody would build any roads, yet why is somebody who isn't automatically being paid for it just taking Bitcoins and going around helping out homeless people?

Oh and do I have to point out the internet as a world wide source of learning? These days even with a pretty cheap internet connection that doesn't work very well you can do a damn lot of searching if you want to try learning something.

[hilariousandco]

Oh well, I'm talking about getting rid of all taxes

What system do you propose for paying for schools, roads, hospitals, emergency services etc?

Either local government where people voluntarily give their money ( Like state government or Local Council depending on which country you're in ) the trick is not forcing it on anyone and then also people can just get together and hire a crew to build it or you could do corporate sponsorship, since advertising is already used a lot on roads why not use that revenue to support the building of them? There are of course more direct methods like toll roads and frankly if you're going to bitch about that sort of thing then you're a cheap skate because I'd rather pay for it on a voluntary basis than be forced to pay for it or go to jail.

The trick is not forcing anyone to pay for it, you do that and you'll have a lot less resentment about building infrastructure and free healthcare, you might even have people going out of their way to support it like with a charity, oh yeah as long as it's run properly I have nothing against charities either, just so many of them are corrupt now and take a large cut of what's donated to them. It's only natural that when you threaten people with violence if they resist that people start hating the idea of giving money to the people threatening them.

Take Sean's Outpost as a living example of what can be done in a voluntary society as well people are quite happy to give that charity Bitcoin and yet according to your logic, if there were no taxes nobody would build any roads, yet why is somebody who isn't automatically being paid for it just taking Bitcoins and going around helping out homeless people?

Oh and do I have to point out the internet as a world wide source of learning? These days even with a pretty cheap internet connection that doesn't work very well you can do a damn lot of searching if you want to try learning something.

If you don't 'force' people to pay for services then most people probably wont as there's plenty of cheapskates. Everybody should chip in for services everybody uses. There is not enough willing people to make mass charities work, and we couldn't rely on them to be rolled out for everyday services. I'd rather put my faith in fair taxes as opposed to this system. Are you really suggesting you'd want corporations to be in charge as opposed to Governments? At least the money from goverment owned companies goes back to the people (or should do in theory).

And would you trust a brain surgeon who got his education or qualifications from an internet based establishment? Whilst I agree you don't need school or qualifications to be intelligent or successful and can learn most of what you need yourself or from the internet, there are some arenas where 'proper' schooling/education is required.

[Lethn]

Love how you use 'force' in quotations, what you don't consider taxation force? What makes you think government is so much more reliable? Oh wait! They've fucked everything up through massive overspending and poor organisation, don't get me started about how some of our roads here in the UK are still being 'worked on' despite the work being going on for several years and then there's the fact you have these huge hospitals which keep people waiting for hours while not even bothering to do basic triage to find out which patients need seeing to first because there aren't enough staff to care for them.

I also love the way you tried to insinuate I wanted corporations to rule over everything, did I say that? No, but your attitude definitely is that of a corporation because you're saying essentially if I sit on somebody's land or drink somebody else's water from a lake therefore I must pay for it OR ELSE.

Keep on preaching, basic mathematics and common sense will always win out in the end.

[hilariousandco]

Love how you use 'force' in quotations, what you don't consider taxation force? What makes you think government is so much more reliable? Oh wait! They've fucked everything up through massive overspending and poor organisation, don't get me started about how some of our roads here in the UK are still being 'worked on' despite the work being going on for several years and then there's the fact you have these huge hospitals which keep people waiting for hours while not even bothering to do basic triage to find out which patients need seeing to first because there aren't enough staff to care for them.

I also love the way you tried to insinuate I wanted corporations to rule over everything, did I say that? No, but your attitude definitely is that of a corporation because you're saying essentially if I sit on somebody's land or drink somebody else's water from a lake therefore I must pay for it OR ELSE.

Keep on preaching, basic mathematics and common sense will always win out in the end.

You're being incredibly naive if you think that just because this government is a bunch of corrupt fucks and failing on many levels that one cannot be implemented that doesn't serve its people better. All we need to do is put a system or government in place that will serve its people and not those of private interests. And yes, in some areas roads might be bad and hospital services lacking, but stop spending money on wars and bailing out bankers and put this money into things that need it. What happens when these charities you want start fucking stuff up and become corrupt or build shoddy roads or schools? Who will hold them accountable? What do you suggest as an alternative to the healthcare system? Sell it off to corporations so only people who can afford health care get it? Let's see how many charity hospitals there is if we go with your system. There'll be people dying in the streets, not in hospital corridors (and it's not that bad yet is it? Yeah, you might have to wait a few hours to get that cut stitched up, but if its an emergency you'll get treated). Let's put our taxes to good use and put more money into these services and they will improve.

And it's not exactly force, is it? You're not forced to do anything or pay any taxes if you don't want, yet you can still use all the services it provides all paid for by the taxpayer. Don't work and don't pay taxes if you don't want, or if you're smart enough you can work and get away with it. Maybe be a conscientious tax objector or avoider.

And I didn't insinuate you 'wanted corporations to rule over everything', did I say that?. But you suggested this as an option, which would be much much worse. You don't trust the governments, but you'd trust a corporation who's only goal is to shit on people and turn profit?

And can you explain and elaborate more on what you mean by common sense and basic mathematics will always win?

[Lethn]

And now you've gone for the scare tactics by saying people will die in the streets despite me offering plenty of alternatives that will help people, also, if you honestly don't know what I mean by mathematics and common sense will always win you really are a lost cause.

You're not forced to do anything or pay any taxes if you don't want, yet you can still use all the services it provides all paid for by the taxpayer.

Yes you are, when you don't pay taxes you go to jail, that's a complete lie:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ianmcowie/100019166/plumber-jailed-for-tax-evasion-as-hmrc-receipts-rise/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-18352528

http://news.sky.com/story/1074638/wesley-snipes-freed-from-jail-after-tax-evasion

http://uk.eonline.com/news/437162/lauryn-hill-begins-prison-sentence-for-tax-evasion

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/45367884-2bd8-11e1-98bc-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2q08KfPYs

http://cpj.org/2013/10/vietnamese-blogger-jailed-on-tax-evasion-charges.php

What you call 'Not paying taxes' governments all call 'tax evasion' and you get arrested and put in jail for it no matter how badly you want to spin this, you're the one who is frankly naive. Also, I actually said corporate sponsorship, I didn't say corporations should run everything, that said, if they do it on a voluntary basis and run it efficiently I have no problem with that unlike you.