Morbo
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January 16, 2014, 02:55:13 AM |
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I DO think there are lots of crazy conspiracy theories. I might even believe some of them myself, but that doesn't make me crazy (just "almost certainly wrong.").
RE: child exploitation: Good example. We all agree that child exploitation is BAD, right?
Pardon the pun and the recursion, but do we agree that there's also exploitation of child exploitation? We are living in a cruel world and the real clashes for power, wealth, influence and control are more serious than breaking virtual spears and hurting egos in forums by downvoting or banning - those clashes kill people and make the whole life of many innocent people miserable. Have you read Rick Falkvinge's "Cynicism Redefined: Why the copyright lobby loves child porn"? falkvinge.net is down ATM, is this yet another crazy conspiracy? Another common sense question is why the lead developer of a transparent free software project would agree to participate to a closed meeting? What exactly stops you from telling them something like "if it's not open and transparent, then no thanks, I'm not going there"? That's exactly your best bet for staying safe against kind demands like "Hey Gavin, can you please add a backdoor to the bitcoin client? Of course you are prohibited to tell others that we have asked and if you do it - you end in Gitmo". Why would you refuse such a safety opportunity? We can occasionally see people pointing fingers at RMS and laughing, calling him crazy and all that stuff. But nobody ever dares to even suspect he has a hidden agenda that's different from his public point of view, because he's straightforward, open and transparent about the things he claims to believe in. Do you think these shady meetings you get yourself involved with contribute to the trust level the [often not enough informed] community has in you as lead developer of Bitcoin project? And by the way "moderated by somebody yet-to-be-determined" just SCREAMS CENSORSHIP, I really hope that's not your own wording. |
http://drunkyoda.tk/ - Bitcoin blog by newbie for newbies (no ads, no reflinks, no donation begging)
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Whoever mines the block which ends up containing your transaction will get its fee.
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knight22
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--------------->¿?
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January 16, 2014, 03:44:05 AM |
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I still don't get it. Gavin might as well end this hearing by:
"And now I'll give you the keys to control bitcoin, please do as you like", and provide them with a github link.
What would it change?
That would be hilarious hehe |
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marcus_of_augustus
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Eadem mutata resurgo
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January 16, 2014, 05:04:55 AM |
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If Gavin wants to talk to people like this (it might be better if he didn't, but OK), why doesn't he just tell them the truth? You could say it would cause panic and uproar, but it's coming anyway ... The next best thing after not talking to them at all would be luring them into a false sense of security.  ... hmmm, surely you're not suggesting to conspire to herd the CFR and elite establishment into a false sense of security like sheep into a pen? The conspired upon become the conspirators?  |
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tvbcof
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January 16, 2014, 06:24:06 AM |
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...
Anyway, where can I read more about the actions of "the Bitcoin Foundation" and their workings with the police forces to stop crime? This is out in the public somewhere I assume?
...
Ya, right. That would give the evildoers(tm) information then need to escape and ply their evil trades. You know how it is...we hear it all the time. Seems that the best way to escape the vise-like grasp of those doing God's work at The Bitcoin Foundation is to become a paying member. Like TradeFortress. |
sig spam anywhere and self-moderated threads on the pol&soc board are for losers.
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jaime
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January 16, 2014, 01:13:05 PM |
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Also point out to them that they will continue to have KYC/AML control if they do this, since colored coin issuers will have to by KYC/AML compliant when dealing with bank wires in/out.
Oh yes, they will love to see how 'Gavin' from some 'Bitcoin foundation' says "..you will continue to have...control.."Fiat currencies are not going to die, they are the main vehicle for them to 'control' our society. Besides, they won't like/believe anyone saying Bitcoin will destroy the dollar. If they ever think that could happen, they will kill Bitcoin in 1 day. Bitcoin simply fills some holes that fiat and current payment system are not able to fulfill. Not a threat at all to their money. It's simply another option, it will always be another option. Nobody will ever be forced to use bitcoins. If it gets big, that means it's reliable and has some value for their users. |
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yatsey87
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January 16, 2014, 03:30:18 PM |
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Also point out to them that they will continue to have KYC/AML control if they do this, since colored coin issuers will have to by KYC/AML compliant when dealing with bank wires in/out.
Oh yes, they will love to see how 'Gavin' from some 'Bitcoin foundation' says "..you will continue to have...control.."Fiat currencies are not going to die, they are the main vehicle for them to 'control' our society. Besides, they won't like/believe anyone saying Bitcoin will destroy the dollar. If they ever think that could happen, they will kill Bitcoin in 1 day. Then we must uprise and show them who really has the power! |
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jaime
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January 16, 2014, 04:32:35 PM |
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Also point out to them that they will continue to have KYC/AML control if they do this, since colored coin issuers will have to by KYC/AML compliant when dealing with bank wires in/out.
Oh yes, they will love to see how 'Gavin' from some 'Bitcoin foundation' says "..you will continue to have...control.."Fiat currencies are not going to die, they are the main vehicle for them to 'control' our society. Besides, they won't like/believe anyone saying Bitcoin will destroy the dollar. If they ever think that could happen, they will kill Bitcoin in 1 day. Then we must uprise and show them who really has the power! They have everything < /period> |
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guybrushthreepwood
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January 16, 2014, 04:35:27 PM |
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Also point out to them that they will continue to have KYC/AML control if they do this, since colored coin issuers will have to by KYC/AML compliant when dealing with bank wires in/out.
Oh yes, they will love to see how 'Gavin' from some 'Bitcoin foundation' says "..you will continue to have...control.."Fiat currencies are not going to die, they are the main vehicle for them to 'control' our society. Besides, they won't like/believe anyone saying Bitcoin will destroy the dollar. If they ever think that could happen, they will kill Bitcoin in 1 day. Then we must uprise and show them who really has the power! They have everything < /period> They won't have much if we stop paying their wages. No money = no power. |
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FandangledGizmo
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January 16, 2014, 05:38:13 PM |
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You guys are all acting like Bitcoin is impregnable. If you sort out the pool mining issues, then you guys can act as cocky as you like, but if you don't take the power out of the pools,  |
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Adrian-x
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January 16, 2014, 06:01:12 PM |
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Also point out to them that they will continue to have KYC/AML control if they do this, since colored coin issuers will have to by KYC/AML compliant when dealing with bank wires in/out.
Oh yes, they will love to see how 'Gavin' from some 'Bitcoin foundation' says "..you will continue to have...control.."Fiat currencies are not going to die, they are the main vehicle for them to 'control' our society. Besides, they won't like/believe anyone saying Bitcoin will destroy the dollar. If they ever think that could happen, they will kill Bitcoin in 1 day. Then we must uprise and show them who really has the power! They have everything < /period> They won't have much if we stop paying their wages. No money = no power. Good luck with that, You need to earn it and burn it faster than they print it. Politicians are bought and paid for with public propaganda campaigns not tax payers; the tax payers just pay the interest of the idle capital of those who manage the CFR. |
Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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guybrushthreepwood
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January 16, 2014, 07:32:36 PM |
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Also point out to them that they will continue to have KYC/AML control if they do this, since colored coin issuers will have to by KYC/AML compliant when dealing with bank wires in/out.
Oh yes, they will love to see how 'Gavin' from some 'Bitcoin foundation' says "..you will continue to have...control.."Fiat currencies are not going to die, they are the main vehicle for them to 'control' our society. Besides, they won't like/believe anyone saying Bitcoin will destroy the dollar. If they ever think that could happen, they will kill Bitcoin in 1 day. Then we must uprise and show them who really has the power! They have everything < /period> They won't have much if we stop paying their wages. No money = no power. Good luck with that, You need to earn it and burn it faster than they print it. Politicians are bought and paid for with public propaganda campaigns not tax payers; the tax payers just pay the interest of the idle capital of those who manage the CFR. What good would the money they keep printing be if we stopped using it? |
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fellowtraveler
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January 16, 2014, 08:47:15 PM |
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Yeah, I believe that's what fellowtraveller is saying too, but really I wonder. It seems a kind of immature approach.
Besides, they won't like/believe anyone saying Bitcoin will destroy the dollar.
This was my point. They would never believe that the fiat empire will be destroyed. It's just completely outside of the realm of reality to them. But they do feel a little funny about AML/KYC, so why not offer that to them? And they have recently voiced fears about losing the unit of account, so why not offer them a way to fix it? "Dollarcoin"! "Eurocoin"! This will be perfect in their eyes. They know that banks suck, and that new technology is coming out, but they want to preserve the dollar / euro. Colored coins give them a way to do these things. What I say about colored coins isn't said in the spirit of deception. It's more in the spirit of "they would never believe us anyway, so why not offer them what they currently think they want?"The reality is, cryptocurrencies are here to stay. The fiat empire is doomed. It is too late to change anything about that now. But they will never believe that, will they? In the meantime, let's give them what they want so we can get what we want. It will be easier for everyone. If they ever think that could happen, they will kill Bitcoin in 1 day.
And how do you propose they will do that, the same way they killed Bittorrent? Heck, some NSA guys are probably reading this right now and surely they're smart enough to know what's going on.
"Government" is not some giant monolithic person. It's a sea of competing interests and agencies, all composed of individuals with their own priorities. "NSA" is not the same as "the banks." Likely the NSA doesn't really give a shit (at all) about the priorities of the banks. Most of them are probably good people who just want to protect the country. Many of them are probably like Edward Snowden -- remember where he was working? The priority of the NSA is data collection, data mining, and systems penetration. (Not controlling the unit-of-account of our money system.) |
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FandangledGizmo
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January 16, 2014, 08:57:15 PM |
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If they ever think that could happen, they will kill Bitcoin in 1 day.
And how do you propose they will do that, the same way they killed Bittorrent? Hmm... I wonder. I wonder how they could possibly try kill Bitcoin. It's so hard, I'm really trying, but you're right, I just can't see any glaring weak spots...  |
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waxwing
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January 16, 2014, 09:33:53 PM |
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<snipped>
Well, it kind of is deception. I think we've reached a point where there's not much point in not being open. I'm particularly thinking of the anonymity issue, more than the colored coin issue. The latter is somehow neither here or there, as that's a separate kind of architecture (issuer). If we continue to propagate the notion, as was done in the Senate hearings, that "bitcoin is traceable and so AML and tax will be fine", it will be seen as deception by all participants in the discussion, when it's later found that practical traceability is rapidly lost due to coinjoin/stealth/coinswap/mixers etc etc. If they want to implement Fedcoin or USDcoin within a OT structure, a colored coin structure, a ripple structure or whatever - to me that's an orthogonal issue to Bitcoin. That's just about more elegant ways of centrally controlling an asset (at best - at worst it's a waste of time). As for the government being one monolithic entity, don't worry, I'm under no such illusion. However those driving policy will be informed (after all they are supposed be information and security agencies) if it becomes clear that there is an unexplained threat from cryptocurrencies. I think ultimately our disagreement on this point will be very much moot since Gavin does not see the situation at all as we do (as you put it "fiat is doomed"). |
PGP fingerprint 2B6FC204D9BF332D062B 461A141001A1AF77F20B (use email to contact)
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ProfMac
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January 16, 2014, 10:01:56 PM |
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"NSA" is not the same as "the banks." Likely the NSA doesn't really give a shit (at all) about the priorities of the banks. Most of them are probably good people who just want to protect the country. Many of them are probably like Edward Snowden -- remember where he was working?
The priority of the NSA is data collection, data mining, and systems penetration. (Not controlling the unit-of-account of our money system.)
There is the random thought that Satoshi is a group in the NSA. They get a ledger of all transactions in the economy, self selected by the very secretive. It uses their strengths, cryptography. It gives more data than fiat does. It is a daunting piece of work, it boggles the mind to think that a single individual pulled it off. |
I try to be respectful and informed.
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Hippie Tech
aka Amenstop
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All cryptos are FIAT digital currency. Do not use.
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January 17, 2014, 02:00:29 AM |
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"NSA" is not the same as "the banks." Likely the NSA doesn't really give a shit (at all) about the priorities of the banks. Most of them are probably good people who just want to protect the country. Many of them are probably like Edward Snowden -- remember where he was working?
The priority of the NSA is data collection, data mining, and systems penetration. (Not controlling the unit-of-account of our money system.)
There is the random thought that Satoshi is a group in the NSA. They get a ledger of all transactions in the economy, self selected by the very secretive. It uses their strengths, cryptography. It gives more data than fiat does. It is a daunting piece of work, it boggles the mind to think that a single individual pulled it off. What is all that computational power really doing ? hmmm ... 1 BTC + 2 BTC = 19,471,315.5946 ghash  |
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Hippie Tech
aka Amenstop
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Activity: 1624
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All cryptos are FIAT digital currency. Do not use.
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January 17, 2014, 05:57:51 AM |
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jaime
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January 17, 2014, 06:57:19 AM |
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There is the random thought that Satoshi is a group in the NSA.
They get a ledger of all transactions in the economy, self selected by the very secretive.
It uses their strengths, cryptography.
It gives more data than fiat does.
It is a daunting piece of work, it boggles the mind to think that a single individual pulled it off.
Could be, but take a look at Nickolas Szabo here http://szabo.best.vwh.net/maybe with the help of Hal Finney http://www.finney.org/~hal/rpow/Both of them are capable and much more motivated than the NSA. |
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