PB Mining -- 5 year mining contracts!

[galdur]

How do you know that those operations are ponzis ?
Since you state this as a fact you presumably have
something to back it up.

It's not up to us to prove they're a ponzi, it's up to them to prove they're legit. If they were legit, they could quite easily prove that and end these allegations of being a ponzi but they choose not to do so. Why? Because they're a ponzi.

If you want to throw your money at some dodgy company instead of a company that's proven it has hashing power, or even more sensibly, a company that is also an ASIC manufacturer, then that just makes you a fool and anyone who listens to you is an even bigger fool.

Don't you think it strange that the only people supporting these ponzis are new users, whereas all the established users here are claiming they're ponzis?

What if they´re legit and don´t give a hoot about some nobodies
on the internet that are whining for months and now for a year about
how it must be a ponzi because they ignore those nobodies ?

[raskul]

I don't think any company could get away with a Ponzi for as long as companies like PB mining have been around.

Its easy. If you do the math based on pb's public numbers,  you learn that in the previous month, PB got at least $150,000 more in revenue than they paid out as divs.  If you post that, then you got some ponzi apologists that try to correct your numbers, and you end up with closer to $250,000.  That would be net profit if you assume they have no real running costs. Not bad for one month.

Whatever the real number, no one is arguing its <$0. Hence continuing the ponzi is still increasing the operators loot.

The question of course is,  for how long.

Ive only recently been logging their stats, and one cant be sure they are accurate, but it appears sales arent going too well now. The past few days have been pretty much stagnant. If that continues,  Id expect desperate measures like price cuts or bonus reinvestment programs or whatever. If that fails to stop the bleeding, it wont be long before pbmining website looks like www.bitcoincloudhashing.com.

and if the current trend in difficulty drop is indeed true and difficulty does actually drop - this ponzi will be required to pay more out than they did from the previous week. not that i'm predicting any such drop in difficulty, but it would be interesting to see it occur.

[galdur]

Maybe you geniuses have never heard of Occam´s razor 

[Mabsark]

I actually view maintenance fees as a money grab to increase profits.  By using their low cost business model, companies like PB mining are happy to make X % and keep attracting customers away from their competitors. Simply put they don't want to be the only ones making $$. They want to customers to have a slice too.

Some cloud mining services don't have maintenance fees because they haven't got any miners to maintain. They're called ponzis. Some services include that maintenance fee in the initial cost and some have a separate maintenance fee. All legitimate services have a maintenance fee though in one form or another.

[raskul]

Maybe you geniuses have never heard of Occam´s razor  

i prefer to keep a beard, something which will eventually occur on you, after puberty.

[Puppet]

Are there any companies providing hashing power with a maintenance fee whereby you can reach ROI if BTC is below $340?

Assuming what network growth scenario?

Here is the deal: cloudmining companies (those that actually mine) take a margin on their expenses. If they offered you something that is almost certain to provide a profit, they wouldnt be selling it at that price, they would mine for themselves. Not only that, the asic vendors that provide the hardware to the cloudservice would have an even bigger potential profit by hosting these machines themselves in their megamines. Why would they not ? So difficulty would go up until that profit potential is gone.

So the short answer is that NO cloud mining offer is anywhere close to guaranteeing a profit.  Anything that looks like a sure profit is a scam.

I actually view maintenance fees as a money grab to increase profits.  By using their low cost business model, companies like PB mining are happy to make X % and keep attracting customers away from their competitors. Simply put they don't want to be the only ones making $$. They want to customers to have a slice too.

You cant be that naive.

Well i guess i have to stop buying hashing power from any cloud miner then.

If you value your bitcoins, yep. Cold wallet for the win.

[MrTeal]

I don't think any company could get away with a Ponzi for as long as companies like PB mining have been around.

Its easy. If you do the math based on pb's public numbers,  you learn that in the previous month, PB got at least $150,000 more in revenue than they paid out as divs.  If you post that, then you got some ponzi apologists that try to correct your numbers, and you end up with closer to $250,000.  That would be net profit if you assume they have no real running costs. Not bad for one month.

Whatever the real number, no one is arguing its <$0. Hence continuing the ponzi is still increasing the operators loot.

The question of course is,  for how long.

Ive only recently been logging their stats, and one cant be sure they are accurate, but it appears sales arent going too well now. The past few days have been pretty much stagnant. If that continues,  Id expect desperate measures like price cuts or bonus reinvestment programs or whatever. If that fails to stop the bleeding, it wont be long before pbmining website looks like www.bitcoincloudhashing.com.

It's unfortunate, as that last purchase of 30,000GH/s really does look like it came from a genuine person. He might earn back a small part of it, but unless revenues rise I could see a hacking or unfortunate robbery/fire happening shortly. He could continue to operate at a loss hoping it will pick up again soon, but I'd be surprised if that went on long at all.

[galdur]

ATCkit, elementary logic doesn´t work with these people.

[Mabsark]

What if they´re legit and don´t give a hoot about some nobodies
on the internet that are whining for months and now for a year about
how it must be a ponzi because they ignore those nobodies ?

Their reputation will just get worse and worse and potential customers will purchase from the competition that have proven themselves.

[david123]

Nobody can actually prove or disprove that PBMining is legit. Everybody who buys from PB has some doubts, and hopes
that if it is a ponzi, then hopefully it will run long enough. Can't we keep it that way? It's a high risk investment and
never invest what you can't afford to loose.

I did it like that with BCT, and I don't feel scammed that much. I knew it was super-high risk, I put only toy money into it. People who
put serious amounts into something like PB must not be educated that PB is a ponzi but how to handle their assets in general.

[raskul]

I don't think any company could get away with a Ponzi for as long as companies like PB mining have been around.

Its easy. If you do the math based on pb's public numbers,  you learn that in the previous month, PB got at least $150,000 more in revenue than they paid out as divs.  If you post that, then you got some ponzi apologists that try to correct your numbers, and you end up with closer to $250,000.  That would be net profit if you assume they have no real running costs. Not bad for one month.

Whatever the real number, no one is arguing its <$0. Hence continuing the ponzi is still increasing the operators loot.

The question of course is,  for how long.

Ive only recently been logging their stats, and one cant be sure they are accurate, but it appears sales arent going too well now. The past few days have been pretty much stagnant. If that continues,  Id expect desperate measures like price cuts or bonus reinvestment programs or whatever. If that fails to stop the bleeding, it wont be long before pbmining website looks like www.bitcoincloudhashing.com.

It's unfortunate, as that last purchase of 30,000GH/s really does look like it came from a genuine person. He might earn back a small part of it, but unless revenues rise I could see a hacking or unfortunate robbery/fire happening shortly. He could continue to operate at a loss hoping it will pick up again soon, but I'd be surprised if that went on long at all.

the biggest indicator that the event is already in process, is that PBmining is not on here giving assurances or allaying the fears of their customers.
their silence speaks volumes.

[galdur]

What if they´re legit and don´t give a hoot about some nobodies
on the internet that are whining for months and now for a year about
how it must be a ponzi because they ignore those nobodies ?

Their reputation will just get worse and worse and potential customers will purchase from the competition that have proven themselves.

But business is booming according to the ponzi specialists.

Puppet calculated this yesterday. Of course as usual his research
was sloppy so he had selling prices for last month too low so
their sales are even higher than his estimates.

So, they seem to be happily rolling in cash.

[raskul]

they seem to be happily rolling in cash.

yup, your cash. congrats.

[ATCkit]

Nobody can actually prove or disprove that PBMining is legit. Everybody who buys from PB has some doubts, and hopes
that if it is a ponzi, then hopefully it will run long enough. Can't we keep it that way? It's a high risk investment and
never invest what you can't afford to loose.

I did it like that with BCT, and I don't feel scammed that much. I knew it was super-high risk, I put only toy money into it. People who
put serious amounts into something like PB must not be educated that PB is a ponzi but how to handle their assets in general.

@david123

We both saw this type of ponzi bashing regarding LTCGear too. Looks how well their customers are doing there. It's still the best overall investment i made.

I look at PB mining being the btc version of  LTCGear. Also, PB mining is Saskatchewan , Canada. If they are close to the Manitoba border, their actual facility might be in Manitoba where their Hydro rates compare to Quebec..or even lower. Also, I imagine overhead costs are much cheaper than many places in the world.

All in all I think both companies run a very tight ship and that's why they can sell mining power for a very low price.

[Puppet]

It's unfortunate, as that last purchase of 30,000GH/s really does look like it came from a genuine person. He might earn back a small part of it, but unless revenues rise I could see a hacking or unfortunate robbery/fire happening shortly. He could continue to operate at a loss hoping it will pick up again soon, but I'd be surprised if that went on long at all.

Ponzi operators rarely close at the peak of profitability. They generally postpone the inevitable well past the peak. Either because they began deluding themselves, or out of fear or whatever reasons.
They can also gamble on the fact that continuing the ponzi even though its clear its beyond its peak,  will increase their credibility enough that sales pick up again. Remember, there is no bank run with a mining ponzi, and pb has enough coins in his piggybank to play poker with.

[galdur]

Nobody can actually prove or disprove that PBMining is legit. Everybody who buys from PB has some doubts, and hopes
that if it is a ponzi, then hopefully it will run long enough. Can't we keep it that way? It's a high risk investment and
never invest what you can't afford to loose.

I did it like that with BCT, and I don't feel scammed that much. I knew it was super-high risk, I put only toy money into it. People who
put serious amounts into something like PB must not be educated that PB is a ponzi but how to handle their assets in general.

@david123

We both saw this type of ponzi bashing regarding LTCGear too. Looks how well their customers are doing there. It's still the best overall investment i made.

I look at PB mining being the btc version of  LTCGear. Also, PB mining is Saskatchewan , Canada. If they are close to the Manitoba border, their actual facility might be in Manitoba where their Hydro rates compare to Quebec..or even lower. Also, I imagine overhead costs are much cheaper than many places in the world.

All in all I think both companies run a very tight ship and that's why they can sell mining power for a very low price.

Maybe their mining operations are located in a place up
far north that has a cold climate and truly excellent
electricity rates and where the dollar buys A LOT. 

[ATCkit]

Yup,, that's what i meant. You can do that in Canada.

[galdur]

I mean, since you ponzi specialists freely admit

that you don´t know shit about this company

maybe you should not just consider what fits your

preconceived outcome.

[MrTeal]

Maybe their mining operations are located in a place up
far north that has a cold climate and truly excellent
electricity rates and where the dollar buys A LOT. 

Yeah, that's not how it works. The further north you go, the less a dollar buys. Once you get past the southern strip of the country costs for everything skyrocket. It would be unwise to build a large farm in a place in the far north when the climate isn't that much different.

[galdur]

Maybe their mining operations are located in a place up
far north that has a cold climate and truly excellent
electricity rates and where the dollar buys A LOT. 

Yeah, that's not how it works. The further north you go, the less a dollar buys. Once you get past the southern strip of the country costs for everything skyrocket. It would be unwise to build a large farm in a place in the far north when the climate isn't that much different.

....not just consider what fits your

preconceived outcome.