PB Mining -- 5 year mining contracts!

[byt411]

If they threatened to ban you for expressing opinions you should
publicly post the accusation, no company has the right to behave like that.

If you have the right on your side you should shed some light on it.

I think the issue here is that rodeoclown has a long history of displaying rude behavior on the forum.  He has been previously warned about his behavior.

The first amendment is the right to free speech in the United States.  I don't think anyone is being censored or punished for expressing a differing opinion in this particular situation.  There may be forum rules about treating each other with respect or courtesy that he violated, but I can't find them at the moment.

A temporary account ban on bitcointalk might be in order if a moderator thinks that is best, but I don't think his pbmining account should be affected in any way.  That would not be fair, and that could send a chilling message to other customers.  rodeoclown has already apologized, it sounds like he may have learned a lesson, and I think most people have accepted his apology.

Rodeo panicked. He asked me to contact them (and I assume some others of you, though I don't know), and I did. According to their reply to me, it was a technical issue, not actually locking him out. Both pbmining and Rodeo have informed me that it's fixed. They did yell at him for being overly rude. I suspect he's rather young and excitable. Aside from his flame war with Byte411, I've always found him amusing, and sometimes informative. So I think singling him out would be wrong. There are genuine trolls on here quite often. An excitable kid is not a big deal in my arrogant opinion.

As to the right of free speech, it carries certain responsibilities. I'm going to speak contra Oliver Wendell Holmes here, and say that as a human being with the power of speech, you most assuredly DO have the right to scream "fire" in a crowded theater. By any legal theory I can think of, you will not be censured for this, even the ones that Holmes illustrated. You will be cited for incitment to riot, creating a public nuisance, reckless endagerment, fraud, all manner of things STEMMING FROM your abuse of freedom of speech, but you'll not be charged with yelling fire.

Freedom of speech does not mean that your exercise of it carries no consequence, it just means you have the right to say it. All rights come with duties, and the duty of a speaker is to be accurate (where appropriate) and guage the effect of their speech to the best of their ability. As a man with a very hot temper, I frequently rewrite my posts before they go public. Is this censorship? I'd have to say both yes and no. It's self censorship, in that I am unlikely to personally attack anyone and do my best to avoid it. Even when I feel like I ought to grab a troll by the throat and rip their larynx out. In a forum, where you type everything, you have the luxury of time. You can edit sufficiently to get your point across WITHOUT deliberate personal offense, or do it such a way that they can't prove it So in the end, it's not censorship, but rather personal decorum. Those who do not or cannot control themselves are not considered to be adults outside of political spheres.

And lest somebody go dig up my (long) past on the 'net and before, yes, it took me a LONG time to grow up based on those words.

Freedom has limits. You are free to do anything you want, as long as it doesn't go against the will of others.
Simple enough. You want to kill someone, you kill them, and are prosecuted by the law. You say you lost your freedom, but freedom has its limits.
rodeoclownicp has promised to not insult or attack anyone else verbally on this forum, be it me or someone else. I have not insulted him, I have just debated with him, but he just threw insults at me.

However, I have forgiven him, and I consider this matter closed.

[1714295670]

1714295670

[elitenoob]

Didn't read their general business terms, but isn't it illegal at all to keep someones bought hashing power and the closure of a costumer account with actually no reason? Ok, he flamed but what has this to do with the relationship between this business and a customer? You could just have reported him for bad language and that's it. Anyway nice to know how this business treating their (flaming)customers

[apsvinet]

Rudeness and flaming on this forum should be handled by the forum staff, not
by a company seizing an account that someone has invested money into.

[PBmining]

Didn't read their general business terms, but isn't it illegal at all to keep someones bought hashing power and the closure of a costumer account with actually no reason? Ok, he flamed but what has this to do with the relationship between this business and a customer? You could just have reported him for bad language and that's it. Anyway nice to know how this business treating their (flaming)customers

Where did you hear that we kept his hash power?  No.  That is not true at all.  It is amazing how fast misinformation spreads though. 

 

[PBmining]

Rudeness and flaming on this forum should be handled by the forum staff, not
by a company seizing an account that someone has invested money into.

Account was never seized.  False information.

[elitenoob]

Didn't read their general business terms, but isn't it illegal at all to keep someones bought hashing power and the closure of a costumer account with actually no reason? Ok, he flamed but what has this to do with the relationship between this business and a customer? You could just have reported him for bad language and that's it. Anyway nice to know how this business treating their (flaming)customers

Where did you hear that we kept his hash power?  No.  That is not true at all.  It is amazing how fast misinformation spreads though. 

 

Ok, so you didn't stole/seize/banned/blocked anything from him in any way? So why is this guy complaining at all, lol?

[PBmining]

Didn't read their general business terms, but isn't it illegal at all to keep someones bought hashing power and the closure of a costumer account with actually no reason? Ok, he flamed but what has this to do with the relationship between this business and a customer? You could just have reported him for bad language and that's it. Anyway nice to know how this business treating their (flaming)customers

Where did you hear that we kept his hash power?  No.  That is not true at all.  It is amazing how fast misinformation spreads though.  

 

Ok, so you didn't stole/seize/banned/blocked anything from him in any way? So why is this guy complaining at all, lol?

He was having an issue with his password, which was further problematic due to the use of a yahoo e-mail account.  His account was fine.  I believe Biomech already pointed that out.

[Biomech]

Freedom has limits. You are free to do anything you want, as long as it doesn't go against the will of others.
Simple enough. You want to kill someone, you kill them, and are prosecuted by the law. You say you lost your freedom, but freedom has its limits.
rodeoclownicp has promised to not insult or attack anyone else verbally on this forum, be it me or someone else. I have not insulted him, I have just debated with him, but he just threw insults at me.

However, I have forgiven him, and I consider this matter closed.

Begin somewhat offtopic rant.

I think, pbmining, that this is the first time I've severely disagreed with your stance. If you changed that to as long as it does not HARM others I would accept your axiom. But for the former to be true, that would state that you must conform in word, deed, and thought with the majority REGARDLESS of merit. This paradigm, while common, has led to the greatest atrocities in the history of our species. None other than Thomas Jefferson, the author of the First Amendment, argued that it was indeed intended to protect the absolute right to hold UNPOPULAR opinions. Unlike me, he championed Democracy. And even so, saw the folly of what you just stated. I, as I've pointed out elsewhere, see unfettered democracy as the most tyrannical system possible IN IT'S VERY CONCEPTION. If we are to follow the precept of the "will of the majority" on anything, we must look to to it's ultimate consequence. Thankfully, most people are significantly smarter than that. But Let's look at it, shall we? This is what Democracy truly means if not fettered by other systems. Ten people get together and decide that one of their number is to die. There need not be reason nor justification, it's the will of the majority. If that person objects to being killed, by the precepts of democracy HE is wrong, and THEY are right.

On a more practical nature, every democracy, however conceived, has eventually failed or become so decadent as to render it non functional. It happens the day after the majority realize they can pick the pocket of the minority with impunity. The very existence of so called minority protections and "hate crime" laws demonstrate that not even the proponents of this screwball system actually believe in it's ultimate merits.

There are limited, VERY limited, circumstances in which a democratic system is of value. Organizing a society, and regulating it, is simply not one of them. History has proven it over and over again.

End rant.

On topic, I'm glad the whole thing is resolved. Things got a little heated over basically a disagreement on method. It happens.

EDIT: I was guilty of what I attributed to others. Rather than sanitize it, I'll note my error and apologize. My response remains the same, but it was Byte411 who I quoted, thinking it was pbmining. I'm usually more careful in pulling the trigger.

[PBmining]

Biomech, you are quoting byt411.  That was not our stance.

[Biomech]

Didn't read their general business terms, but isn't it illegal at all to keep someones bought hashing power and the closure of a costumer account with actually no reason? Ok, he flamed but what has this to do with the relationship between this business and a customer? You could just have reported him for bad language and that's it. Anyway nice to know how this business treating their (flaming)customers

Where did you hear that we kept his hash power?  No.  That is not true at all.  It is amazing how fast misinformation spreads though.  

 

Ok, so you didn't stole/seize/banned/blocked anything from him in any way? So why is this guy complaining at all, lol?

He was having an issue with his password, which was further problematic due to the use of a yahoo e-mail account.  His account was fine.  I believe Biomech already pointed that out.

I left out the details, cuz I didn't figure it was my business, but this was a misunderstanding. Rodeo asked me to mediate, and as it turned out, there was nothing to mediate. He panicked. It was just a technical issue, since resolved. That it happened just after he was warned about flaming was correlation, not causation I probably would have thought the same thing, though I'd not have panicked so much. Coincidence can be a horrible bitch sometimes.

[Biomech]

Biomech, you are quoting byt411.  That was not our stance.

Oops. Noted, I misread the header. It's a good rant, I'm keeping it, but noted, and will be edited to reflect the error... sorry about that

[elitenoob]

sorry for misunderstanding...so now lets all be happy and hug eachother and spread love and such...

[crazyjack]

I havent been reading this topic for quite some time, but i just want to commend the admin of pbmining. I signed up somewhere around January 2014, but payments still coming on time as he said at the beginning...

 

[2jesters]

One thing I have noticed in reading the last few pages of this forum is that the people who complain are the ones who don't have a lot of money invested into PBMining, however, to them it might be a lot, but, you don't see the leaders on the Global Stats page, like DE001, Pluton14 or ashatak complaining or calling PBM a ponzi scheme.  Makes you think these high rollers know something that we don't!

Having read a number of well known economic geniuses and following a few chart-ist who indicate that Bitcoin could, by the end of this year, be conservatively valued at $2,000 and could be as high as $6,000, my philosophy in mining Bitcoins is to have as many coins as I can if/when this happens.

Even if this doesn't happen, each week I'm still getting an ROI for the next 4+ years.  Seems like a no brainer to me.

[5ick3uffalo]

Seems like a no brainer to me.

For me ,too. Can´t complain and my feeling still is that PBMining is legit and they are doing a very good job.

I Don´t care what they mine, where they mine, what they eat for breakfast etc etc.

Everything what matters to me is regular Payouts , ROI until end of contract, and good Support when i need them.

[Mike18feb]

Some people find it difficult to part with BTC0.01, others toss in a load of Bitcoins that makes my head spin, but to that one person it might feel the same. I can't imagine myself investing like 10K USD, but you want to know something stupid?! Add it all up what I've invested left and right and I might come to that amount. Whatever you are willing to spend, the feeling stays the same, but the amount simply grows or declines with you. And ponzi?! I don't think anyone buying 50K worth of hashrate got such a spendable amount by being careful and staying on the sidelines all the time.

As for the 4+ years, smaller amounts of hashrates are pretty much useless after a year as the payable amount is simply gets too low. With larger amounts like 50TH/s it takes like two years and a bit, but after that you'll reach the same thing. Though, the more you have, the longer it provides payable amounts. When considering that the difficulty increase seems to be declining slightly and I think that is the long term trend, profitability of hashrate may extend a bit more. At some point the Bitcoin network doesn't accept small payments anymore, but I forgot the number. Anyone know what the minimum payout amount is?

[5ick3uffalo]

"I don't think anyone buying 50K worth of hashrate got such a spendable amount by being careful and staying on the sidelines all the time."

And when it`s not your own money anyway.

There is still a possibility other "cloud service providers" buying hashingpower at PBM.
Who knows maybe someone has a business concept "Buy cheap , Sell Expessive"
Not even a bad concept , make sense to me.

I think the top5 are not 5 persons.

[Mike18feb]

rofl, you are the second person today suggesting such a scheme. Different but similar.

The thought of the top 5, or anyone really, not being people but "businesses" is interesting though. I wouldn't build my mining company solely on hashrate of others, unless it's a fully supported reseller sort of thing, but I might buy some hashrate as a sort of "insurance" against (partial) hashrate loss or some such crappy thing at my own site. For a smaller business that doesn't have it all, it might even make sense indeed.

[apsvinet]

I'm just interested in seeing when this whole scheme blows up. My bet from the start was that after the 2 TH/S contest is over they'll run.
Hopefully I'm wrong, though. And as long as people are getting paid - there's no problem, no matter where the payments come from.

[Netwerked]

At some point the Bitcoin network doesn't accept small payments anymore, but I forgot the number. Anyone know what the minimum payout amount is?

I think the minimum is 0.00005300 BTC.  Anything smaller than that is "dust" and most miners will reject the transaction, even if a fee is paid.