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Author Topic: [ANN] NEX :: Nxt Reimagined - Industrial Strength - Imagine Fairness!  (Read 101932 times)
nomailing
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January 21, 2014, 04:08:14 PM
 #861

fair distribution of bitcoin ? lol  it was  released on a crypto mailing list (so how is it fair if you release it only to a very restrict group of people). for months 10 people mined it....then some gamers started mining it (i believe cos it got posted on on blizzard forums).....then by the time it ever got popular mining it required investment in graphic cards...and then asics completely killed it for the average joe....was everything but fair distribution.
NXT is already more distribiuted than bitcoin ever was in its first 2 months ., where only 20 or so people mined it.
5 years on and less than 1000 own more than 50% of bitcoins.  if NXt is to survive 5 years i bet its distribution will be much wider than that.

But with bitcoin it was fair because the first miners had a very huge risk. Only from your current perspective you could say it is unfair, but actually these guys were like revolutionists who were thinking differently and therefore their past reward can be considered fair from todays perspective. Everyone interested in the matter could have joined 4 years ago, or 3 years ago or now and nobody would say it is unfair.

In contrast an IPO (initial public offering) is ridiculous in the context of a network which is maintained by open-source software. Everyone could just copy the software and create their alternative network with exactly the same properties. So there is no value and therefore an IPO makes no sense.

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January 21, 2014, 04:11:58 PM
 #862

fair distribution of bitcoin ? lol  it was  released on a crypto mailing list (so how is it fair if you release it only to a very restrict group of people). for months 10 people mined it....then some gamers started mining it (i believe cos it got posted on on blizzard forums).....then by the time it ever got popular mining it required investment in graphic cards...and then asics completely killed it for the average joe....was everything but fair distribution.
NXT is already more distribiuted than bitcoin ever was in its first 2 months ., where only 20 or so people mined it.
5 years on and less than 1000 own more than 50% of bitcoins.  if NXt is to survive 5 years i bet its distribution will be much wider than that.

But with bitcoin it was fair because the first miners had a very huge risk. Only from your current perspective you could say it is unfair, but actually these guys were like revolutionists who were thinking differently and therefore their past reward can be considered fair from todays perspective. Everyone interested in the matter could have joined 4 years ago, or 3 years ago or now and nobody would say it is unfair.

In contrast an IPO (initial public offering) is ridiculous in the context of a network which is maintained by open-source software. Everyone could just copy the software and create their alternative network with exactly the same properties. So there is no value and therefore an IPO makes no sense.

First miners had huge risk?  No.

The first miners took software, downloaded it and mined thousands of BTC on their CPUs.  There is no risk in that scenario.

In contrast, in an IPO, the early investor has to put forward hard earned cash.  In this case the risk is _very_ real.
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January 21, 2014, 04:13:48 PM
 #863

Quote
NEX Invest Coin (NIC) coins are the name of the currency that will be distributed initially. These are the coins that will be on exchanges and can be bought and sold. These coins will generate 1 additional NIC coin per week for every 1,000 NIC coins that you own (updates fractionally on the blockchain every 15 seconds and are rounded up to the nearest millionth). This means that in one year of holding 1,000 NIC coins, you will receive roughly 50 NIC coins, or 5% per annum.

NEX Enterprise Coin (NEC) coins can only be obtained by burning NIC coins. For every 1,000 NIC coins that are burned you will receive one NEC coin. These coins can not be exchanged, sold, or discarded by any means and will be attached to the wallet indefinitely. Each NEC coin will generate five NIC coins per week. In one year of holding one single NEC coin, you will receive roughly NIC LV1 coins. This equates to an increase of 25% per annum.


Would you please elaborate on this?

Will InvestCoin and EnterpriseCoin both have max supply limits?

Is there a mechanism to convert back from EnterpriseCoin to InvestCoin?  If not, then doesn't that suggest that EnterpriseCoin inflates infinitely?  I think there needz to be a mechanism to deflate EnterprizeCoin as well.


NIC (or NEX) are tradeable.   NEC (Enterprise) is not tradeable.

Let me explore your contention about Enterprise Coins inflating infinitely.    

 
                                . ██████████.
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       ..████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████..
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January 21, 2014, 04:17:27 PM
 #864

Interested.
How does the zero cost buy in work?
I see the 1:50 trade NXT for NEX, but that is not a zero cost buy in now is it.
There needs to be a way to distribute coins freely and fairly.


By saying you are interested, you will get coins as a percent of those who said they were interested.
Interested
 Smiley
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January 21, 2014, 04:23:54 PM
 #865

Interested !
I'm in
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January 21, 2014, 04:29:32 PM
 #866

Interested
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January 21, 2014, 04:30:52 PM
 #867

I am interested!
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January 21, 2014, 04:31:29 PM
 #868

interested of course  Smiley
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January 21, 2014, 04:36:39 PM
 #869

interested
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January 21, 2014, 04:41:18 PM
 #870

Official scam complaints have been filed with forum moderator for a number of reason.  Please do not send this guy any payment.

These are all Nxt videos, this guys is trying to scam you.  Be warned.

NEX
NXT Videos
NEX Introduction
What is NEX? Discussion by Tai Zen and Leon Fu (24:56)
How to Mine NEX
How to Use NEX Client
How to Register Alias Tutorial
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January 21, 2014, 04:42:20 PM
 #871

I'm interested!  Smiley

NEX open source from the start. Why would anyone prefer the closed source alternative? (NXT promised the sources for January, they now say April; it will probably never be fully open source. This is too bad for serious money)

lol you haven't done your home work.   How do you think NEX is going to get their source code?

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January 21, 2014, 04:53:48 PM
 #872

I would propose the following to get a really fair coin distribution for a 100% PoS coin:

Add the bitcoinj library to the NEX code and let it run in SPV mode.
Every NEX node continuously scans the bitcoin blockchain for P2SH transactions that are going to a proof-of-burn address.
You define a sliding window (i.e. 100 bitcoin blocks) and distribute rewards proportional to all bitcoins that were sent to the burn address within the last 100 bitcoin blocks.

You can define a decreasing reward curve for the next 1-4 years, such that after this initial bootstrapping rewarding phase the bitcoinj library can be excluded from the source code.

I think this would be the most fair distribution model, because there is no initial IPO. The price of the new coin will be determined always by the free market: If there is a period where more people are willing to burn their bitcoins for NEX coins, then they each get less NEX coins for their bitcoins. On the other hand if there is a period were no one wants to burn their bitcoins to get NEX coins, then everybody could just jump in and burn just a few satoshi to get almost the full NEX block reward without much competition. So you see fair distribution by market value.
It would make sure that the new coin actually really starts at value zero and will gradually improve to gain value. Therefore from an economic standpoint this would be the same distribution model as with Bitcoin.

It will borrow the fair distribution model from Bitcoin and the nice proof-of-stake model from NXT.
Of course this distribution model also has a much lower barrier to entry for every current bitcoin owner, even if he decides only after half a year to exchange some bitcoins for NEX coins. He could just look if he gets a better price at some exchange or if he goes the way to directly convert by burning bitcoins. This is the same mechanisms as someone interested in bitcoin could decide to buy a mining rig or to directly buy bitcoins on an exchange.
So instead of an initial-public-offering the coin has a continous-public-offering with decreasing reward over the next few years. This makes sure that the coins will be distributed quite broadly to many people.
The problem with this is the value of bitcoin is not static, and so one day someone may get 10000 NEX for 1 BTC and the next 12000 NEX (or vice versa). In fact over the course of one year the price of bitcoin may triple, and so what? You are tying the price of NEX to the highly volatile and speculative BTC. This is not a good idea.

What if the price of BTC tanks over the course of one year? So at the beginning of the year you get 1000 NEX for 1 btc, but by the end of the year when you SHOULD be getting less NEX due to the tapering down of the burn reward system, they can buy 3x as many bitcoin for the same amount and so get 3x the NEX? So NEX has to decrease in value by 66.66% for no other reason than bitcoin took a dive.

Otherwise this idea is great.
edit: elaboration
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January 21, 2014, 04:56:07 PM
 #873

I'm interested!  Smiley

NEX open source from the start. Why would anyone prefer the closed source alternative? (NXT promised the sources for January, they now say April; it will probably never be fully open source. This is too bad for serious money)

lol you haven't done your home work.   How do you think NEX is going to get their source code?

The hard way... reverse engineering it.

Anyway,  we saw underneath the covers.... it is complete garbage.

Anyone who holds Nxt coins can lose every one of it at a moments notice.

All accounts are accessible by everyone and are protected only by a password that can be brute forced by a hashcat farm.

 
                                . ██████████.
                              .████████████████.
                           .██████████████████████.
                        -█████████████████████████████
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       .██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
       ..████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████..
       .   .██████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
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January 21, 2014, 04:57:33 PM
 #874

interested  Grin
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January 21, 2014, 05:03:12 PM
 #875

STOP FEEDING THIS SCAM

In earth life you don't get anything good for free, this is just a joke here. Don't be stupid
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January 21, 2014, 05:12:28 PM
 #876

Tish tosh.

Hardly gentlemanly behaviour to see the idea (however great) of Level Coin, and immediately swiping it.
Your offering him a job at YOUR coin was icing on the insulting cake.

If you want to use Nxt's code, fine. That's legit. But you are keep using work done by others (video's, articles and now ideas that people are proposing themselves) to further your plans.

I more and more get the idea you are an intellectual sibling of Eric Bauman of eBaumsworld.

He also had the nasty habit of swiping stuff off the net, "because, you know, ideas and creativity are free", sticking his dreadful logo on it and using it to monetise.

He álso had the habit of basically shitting on the creators when they came to complain by telling them they were getting free advertising so they should shut up.

People like Bauman represent the worst side of the internet. They steal because they can and clothe their deeds in big words about freedom.

I had some sympathy for this project, but it's turning more and more into some weird crusade and strange project about this undefined concept of "fairness".



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January 21, 2014, 05:19:17 PM
 #877

Interested !  Smiley

Thank you
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January 21, 2014, 05:23:10 PM
 #878

I would propose the following to get a really fair coin distribution for a 100% PoS coin:

Add the bitcoinj library to the NEX code and let it run in SPV mode.
Every NEX node continuously scans the bitcoin blockchain for P2SH transactions that are going to a proof-of-burn address.
You define a sliding window (i.e. 100 bitcoin blocks) and distribute rewards proportional to all bitcoins that were sent to the burn address within the last 100 bitcoin blocks.

You can define a decreasing reward curve for the next 1-4 years, such that after this initial bootstrapping rewarding phase the bitcoinj library can be excluded from the source code.

I think this would be the most fair distribution model, because there is no initial IPO. The price of the new coin will be determined always by the free market: If there is a period where more people are willing to burn their bitcoins for NEX coins, then they each get less NEX coins for their bitcoins. On the other hand if there is a period were no one wants to burn their bitcoins to get NEX coins, then everybody could just jump in and burn just a few satoshi to get almost the full NEX block reward without much competition. So you see fair distribution by market value.
It would make sure that the new coin actually really starts at value zero and will gradually improve to gain value. Therefore from an economic standpoint this would be the same distribution model as with Bitcoin.

It will borrow the fair distribution model from Bitcoin and the nice proof-of-stake model from NXT.
Of course this distribution model also has a much lower barrier to entry for every current bitcoin owner, even if he decides only after half a year to exchange some bitcoins for NEX coins. He could just look if he gets a better price at some exchange or if he goes the way to directly convert by burning bitcoins. This is the same mechanisms as someone interested in bitcoin could decide to buy a mining rig or to directly buy bitcoins on an exchange.
So instead of an initial-public-offering the coin has a continous-public-offering with decreasing reward over the next few years. This makes sure that the coins will be distributed quite broadly to many people.
The problem with this is the value of bitcoin is not static, and so one day someone may get 10000 NEX for 1 BTC and the next 12000 NEX (or vice versa). In fact over the course of one year the price of bitcoin may triple, and so what? You are tying the price of NEX to the highly volatile and speculative BTC. This is not a good idea.

What if the price of BTC tanks over the course of one year? So at the beginning of the year you get 1000 NEX for 1 btc, but by the end of the year when you SHOULD be getting less NEX due to the tapering down of the burn reward system, they can buy 3x as many bitcoin for the same amount and so get 3x the NEX? So NEX has to decrease in value by 66.66% for no other reason than bitcoin took a dive.

Otherwise this idea is great.
edit: elaboration

I think you slightly misunderstood how it would work. The following is not true, because the reward is not coupled to a certain amount of BTC!

they can buy 3x as many bitcoin for the same amount and so get 3x the NEX?
No, they would get the same amount of NEX for their USD.
The reward is fixed to a certain time interval and NOT a fixed conversion rate to BTC!
Therefore the reward system is independent from the volatility or value of bitcoins.

Please let me elaborate using an example:
We could use a sliding window of one day (864 bitcoins blocks). The amount of distribution of NEX per day is fixed in the protocol and does not depend on the actual number of bitcoins destroyed:
1. Year: 1000 NEX per day
2. Year: 500 NEX per day
3. Year: 250 NEX per day
4. Year: 0 NEX per day
No matter how bitcoins volatility changes the total number of distributed NEX coins stays the same! These total rewards are distributed to all individuals who burned bitcoins proportional to the bitcoins that they destroyed during the last 864 blocks. If more people burn, their individual reward gets smaller. If less people burn, their individual reward increases. But the total amount of reward is fixed. Very similar to bitcoin mining power.


So now let's illustrate your example of a highly volatile bitcoin price using two scenarios:

Scenario A:
1 BTC = 1000 USD (very volatile)
1 NEX = 1 USD
1000 NEX are distributed per day
The free market will make sure that rewards are distributed worth of 1000 NEX per day. Therefore the market equilibrium fill be reached, when "miners" will burn 1 BTC per 24 hours, because 1000 NEX = 1000 USD = 1 BTC

Scenario B:
1 BTC = 100 USD (very volatile)
1 NEX = 1 USD
1000 NEX are distributed per day
The free market will make sure that rewards are distributed worth of 1000 NEX per day. Therefore the market equilibrium fill be reached, when "miners" will burn 0.1 BTC per 24 hours, because 1000 NEX per day = 1000 USD per day = 0.1 BTC per day

So you can easily see that the bitcoin volatility does not effect the reward distribution of NEX. If NEX has a stable USD value then the mining reward has also a stable value.

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January 21, 2014, 05:29:59 PM
 #879

Interested, provided it doesn't cost anything  Smiley
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January 21, 2014, 05:45:34 PM
 #880

NEX (Nexus exchange) looks highly interesting.

also, incorporating level coin ideas is a plus....  This is an evolutionary landscape, things must evolve.  One project borrows DNA from another.

at the end of the day, one of the deciding factors is who can actually do this stuf f...  FrictionlessCoin seems like a good bet.  And, he's giving away NEX, so seems like a good deal to me.
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