BitPonzi.Net - Offline

[ama]

Sorry about the 8 BTC; it was supposed to be smaller.  Also, for the record:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=39649.msg502796#msg502796
edit: ama, if you don't think it is going to get any more deposits, here's your chance to make a profit!
Deposit 1 btc and get out 2.25!

I already emptied my wallet once on a massive.  It wan't happen to me again.  

vhrodu96 past 1 hour, King_of_Jackpot past 5 minutes.  It'd be good to know how long that new extenssion will last.  It's getting late and I could go to sleep and look at the rounds I'm interested into and are near to end, tomorrow morning.   

[1714062894]

1714062894

[1714062894]

1714062894

[1714062894]

1714062894

[1714062894]

1714062894

[ama]

Four games are already past their due time, included the massive one, being the first one past almost two hours, and the massive game almost one hour.  Speaking about the massive games, at first I was totally at margin from them, but I was asked for my opinion, and there has been so much discussion going on that well, let's keep going.

The nice thing about this site is that, even though it's based on a ponzi scheme, it can be consider a game (as I see it), because players can see what others are depositing and stimate the chance of getting paid for a deposit, there is a jackpot which they can try to get, so it's not just about taken their money from them, but about letting them risk it in exchange of the chance of making a profit.  The massive games take away all this from the game, making it a real ponzi scheme where the objective is take away the money from the fooled "players" (they think they play, but they don't have a chance to gain anything).

For a number of rounds people were fooled by the impressive large jackpots (an illussion, since they were stolen from them by the bots) and the profit made by the huge first deposits was growing game after game, until propossing things like more than 20 coins deposited driven by greed to increase the profit of the first deposits, not to make a nicer jackpot for the "players".  If that had been the case, as it is in other games, instead of a huge first deposit, several smaller ones along the game could be made (the Forever_Game promisses to reinvest the profit to get more people paid; the Mini_Ponzi promisses to deposit the same amount every time he gets paid -he makes profit, but takes the risk of not getting paid once, etc.), or a larger deposit after some time (maybe the first period of the game, 6 hours, or 3 or whatever the game is supossed to last), so that a few people get paid by it.

Then, asking for the bots to be prevented of getting in early (before the huge second deposit) but allowed later was the last resource to make sure everybody was totally screwed and all their coins stollen from them, part of it as the payment for the second deposit, and the rest by the bot getting the jackpots.  Why not make a single initial deposit and don't risk letting somene to make the second deposit and ask for the bots to be banned until the second deposit?  Easy enough, to also take advantag of the guy running the site by avoiding paying him the fee of the first deposit.

If I was running the site, I would apply the same fee to the second, third, etc. deposits if they were made by the same person (same address) or if they were made very soon after the first one and their amount were huge in comparison to the first deposit.  That would be fair with the person running the site, I think.  If somebody wants to make an initial 20 coins deposit that's fine, but he should pay the fee for it.

I apologize if this message sounds too harsh, but as I said at the begining, I didn't want to give my opinion but I was directly asked (both in public and by PM), and also driven by the discussion in this thread also.  And well, once started... in for a penny, in for a pound.

[ama]

Four games are already past their due time, included the massive one, being the first one past almost two hours, and the massive game almost one hour.

Three more rounds are about to finish within the next couple of hours.  What a pity to see nice rounds like the InfiniteBitponzi, with 31 deposits, die because of that.   

[ineededausername]

Hi ama,
runlinux has agreed to take his bots off my games.  What's wrong with them now?  I was formerly under the impression that high initial deposits were fine... look at bitcoinduit's rounds, is all I can say.  Look at MASSIVEJACKPOT (on BitPonzi).  Those were fine.  In fact, the entire daily massive series was doing very well before bots.

[ama]

runlinux has agreed to take his bots off my games.  What's wrong with them now?  I was formerly under the impression that high initial deposits were fine... look at bitcoinduit's rounds, is all I can say.  Look at MASSIVEJACKPOT (on BitPonzi).  Those were fine.  In fact, the entire daily massive series was doing very well before bots.

I (and others) have stated it several times already.  Even without bots most participants have 0 chance to get anything out of the game (neither get paid, nor win the jackpot -only one person can get it-, nor have any fun planing or trying to deploy a game strategy).  It's like playing a lottery (the only prize is the jackpot) paying a huge tax (the payment for your second huge deposit).  There is no game.  There is no fun.

[ineededausername]

runlinux has agreed to take his bots off my games.  What's wrong with them now?  I was formerly under the impression that high initial deposits were fine... look at bitcoinduit's rounds, is all I can say.  Look at MASSIVEJACKPOT (on BitPonzi).  Those were fine.  In fact, the entire daily massive series was doing very well before bots.

I (and others) have stated it several times already.  Even without bots most participants have 0 chance to get anything out of the game (neither get paid, nor win the jackpot -only one person can get it-, nor have any fun planing or trying to deploy a game strategy).  It's like playing a lottery (the only prize is the jackpot) paying a huge tax (the payment for your second huge deposit).  There is no game.  There is no fun.

Oh ok, makes sense once you view it like that.
How do you like my proposals of smaller initial deposits?  I've proposed 6,3,1 daily. 
Sorry, the larger games were tailored to the demands of the bitcoinduit market, which was much larger.  People actually used to get paid out.  I'm sorry that has not happened, and I'll be discontinuing the daily massive series in favor of smaller ones.  There will still be daily series with large jackpots though (just smaller initials), and you will actually get paid

[ama]

Three more rounds are about to finish within the next couple of hours.  What a pity to see nice rounds like the InfiniteBitponzi, with 31 deposits, die because of that.   

Fortunately it seems that despite the server malfunction ending the rounds, new deposits are being accepted and handled properly.  I'm glad to see the InfiniteBitponzi game surviving.    

[ama]

How do you like my proposals of smaller initial deposits?  I've proposed 6,3,1 daily. 

I think I already answered that question (not sure if in a post or a PM).  I don't like absolutey any pre-agreed "game".  They are not games, but investments for the proponent (second deposit after a tiny one to still the fees from the house) to take the money from the players.  I only participate (and have a lot of fun) on honest games were the host also plays and risks.  Sorry.

[ineededausername]

How do you like my proposals of smaller initial deposits?  I've proposed 6,3,1 daily. 

I think I already answered that question (not sure if in a post or a PM).  I don't like absolutey any pre-agreed "game".  They are not games, but investments for the proponent (second deposit after a tiny one to still the fees from the house) to take the money from the players.  I only participate (and have a lot of fun) on honest games were the host also plays and risks.  Sorry.

ama, I don't know what you're talking about.  Shouldn't lower initial deposits allow the players to get paid?

[ama]

ama, I don't know what you're talking about.  Shouldn't lower initial deposits allow the players to get paid?

I don't think so as long as you agree with a bunch of people before hand on the amount they have to deposit (after your second deposit) to make sure you get your profit.  "Players" have to pay those people before they start getting paid.

I'm sorry, it's nothing personal, but I really think the Bitponzi site needs to see your prearranged "games" gone for good if it wants to be a real game.

[runlinux]

https://rapidshare.com/files/3589210497/PonziBot.zip

full source code for the ponzi bot.

if you work your way down into the debug / bin folder, there is an addresses.txt file. place your receiving addresses in their before starting the bot.

It uses your mt gox account to send coins. dont have one, dont use this bot.

when you launch the bot, it reads in the games from the API. Select a game from the box on the top left by clicking on the row header on the left side of the box. if you did it right, you will see a list of deposits in the box below.

from there, hit the ponzi button. it changes to running to let you know its working.

be careful with this.  if a bot is placed against another bot, your wallet will go dry. it checks every 90 seconds for a new deposit. if it was not any of the ones you have listed in addresses.txt, it places a bet.

enjoy, and dont cry to me when your wallet is empty.

[ineededausername]

ama, I don't know what you're talking about.  Shouldn't lower initial deposits allow the players to get paid?

I don't think so as long as you agree with a bunch of people before hand on the amount they have to deposit (after your second deposit) to make sure you get your profit.  "Players" have to pay those people before they start getting paid.

I'm sorry, it's nothing personal, but I really think the Bitponzi site needs to see your prearranged "games" gone for good if it wants to be a real game.

ama,
I haven't taken your criticism personally.  I think you bring up thoughtful points that should be addressed.
First of all, I'm not asking for pledges on the 1 or 3 btc games.  If I lose money, I'll discontinue it.  There's no reason for me to ask for pledges for low amounts.  Also, since there's a concern of "first man in," they'll be started at a random time in the evening to ensure nobody's waiting there for the round to start so they can put in huge amounts that block the progress of the game.
Second of all, it's easier to think of the pledgers as a part of the initial deposit for the 6btc round.  Yes, I'm greedy.  I want profit.  Doesn't everyone?  However, I don't intend to screw over all the players in my rounds because of it.  The idea of a pledge is, "I'd invest this much anyways, so I might as well tell the person starting the round.  I don't lose anything and he lowers his risk."

[JonHind]

If people are desperate to throw away their bitcoins, could I give you my wallet address and simply give them to me?

The nice thing about this site is that, even though it's based on a ponzi scheme,

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money or the money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from any actual profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation. The Ponzi scheme usually entices new investors by offering higher returns than other investments, in the form of short-term returns that are either abnormally high or unusually consistent. Perpetuation of the high returns requires an ever-increasing flow of money from new investors to keep the scheme going.

The system is destined to collapse because the earnings, if any, are less than the payments to investors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

Add to that people cheating with bots, and people are still wanting to play?

[ineededausername]

If people are desperate to throw away their bitcoins, could I give you my wallet address and simply give them to me?

The nice thing about this site is that, even though it's based on a ponzi scheme,

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money or the money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from any actual profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation. The Ponzi scheme usually entices new investors by offering higher returns than other investments, in the form of short-term returns that are either abnormally high or unusually consistent. Perpetuation of the high returns requires an ever-increasing flow of money from new investors to keep the scheme going.

The system is destined to collapse because the earnings, if any, are less than the payments to investors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

Add to that people cheating with bots, and people are still wanting to play?

Damn, Jon, if you hate games that result in people losing money, why don't you get out of the gambling forum?

[ama]

full source code for the ponzi bot.

R.I.P. Bitponzi.

[JonHind]

Damn, Jon, if you hate games that result in people losing money, why don't you get out of the gambling forum?

I like gambling. But I only like gambling when it is a fair game.

I've been following this thread since its inception by the way. I just wanted to highlight the major point that this game is a huge ponzi scam being played by people who cheat. If people are happy continuing playing knowing this, then that is fine.

[ineededausername]

Damn, Jon, if you hate games that result in people losing money, why don't you get out of the gambling forum?

I like gambling. But I only like gambling when it is a fair game.

I've been following this thread since its inception by the way. I just wanted to highlight the major point that this game is a huge ponzi scam. If people are happy continuing playing, then that is fine.

Jon, it's not a scam when everyone's aware of the jackpot, the pot, the roi and the fees.  Everything's crystal clear.  It's entirely fair. 
The only thing unfair is the bot, which I now think should be banned.

[ama]

Second of all, it's easier to think of the pledgers as a part of the initial deposit for the 6btc round.  Yes, I'm greedy.  I want profit.  Doesn't everyone?  However, I don't intend to screw over all the players in my rounds because of it.  The idea of a pledge is, "I'd invest this much anyways, so I might as well tell the person starting the round.  I don't lose anything and he lowers his risk."

That's exactly the point.  You never risk, you always profit.  You are not hosting a game.  You are taking away the money from people asking others to make sure you don't risk anything by promissing them to reduce their chances of loosing their deposits.  Nobody should be tricked into such kind of thing, ever.

[ama]

I like gambling. But I only like gambling when it is a fair game.

I've been following this thread since its inception by the way. I just wanted to highlight the major point that this game is a huge ponzi scam being played by people who cheat. If people are happy continuing playing knowing this, then that is fine.

I think most rounds are fair.  I participate in them, get some payments, loose some deposits, I've also got the jackpot some times.  The fact that there is a prize (jackpot) and opportunities to get paid for your deposits, make this site a game, not a real ponzi scheme (although the idea is based on it).  Most people don't cheat.  Of course they want to win.  Of course they like to make a profit.  I like it too.  But I risk and loose some times, and win others.  That's what makes it fun.

The rounds proposed by ineededausername are preagreed with some people to make sure he never risks.  The first deposit is tiny and the second huge, to still the fee from the house.  And the jackpot is stollen by a bot (they are saying they won't be doing it anymore, but now the bot source code is published, so there will be more than one bots around, I guess).  I go a bit further than you and, while I think most of the rounds are real games and fair, the ones hosted by  ineededausername are not only scams, but dirty dishonest planed strategies to still people's wallets.

[ineededausername]

The bot has never been a part of any planned strategy.  Also, you know, my strategy for avoiding fees pays me a small amount most of the time, but on two occasions has almost cost me 4-7btc each, because people got in before my second.  It's really a calculated gamble more than a firm strategy.  As for the pre-agreed issue, I won't be doing that with my lower-initial rounds, and even for the larger ones I can't really see how giving myself 0 risk while other people have the same outcome as they would have had originally is "bad."  Happy?
For pledging:
Let's say I get 5btc in pledges.  I go ahead and make my 10btc round.  Total: 15btc.  You say this is a daunting hurdle for everyone to cross.
The concept of a pledge is such that people would have bet that much anyways.
Without pledges:
I go ahead and make my 10btc round.  People come in and invest 5btc.  Total: STILL 15btc!