Why have a bunch of the eMunie founders + familiar faces disappeared from eMu?

[MikeyVeez]

What eid said nailed it on the head. Before even the whole Dan having hatchers collect more interest thing, mr vegas brought up this bug and it was completely ignored by Dan. I guess the real reason was because he was using it for personal gain.

Also,  other weird things why wouldn't dan want help from countless of other programmers to speed things up? You can still keep it closed source and get help.

Especially when one person is trying to re write economics, you would think he would want all the help he could get. Because of these reasons he lost alot of trust.

I will still run the client on release on a dummy computer I just don't expect emunie to survive. I suspect day one something will break, or a vulnerability will be found which will cause it's death.

[1714733907]

1714733907

[1714733907]

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[1714733907]

1714733907

[hamiltino]

emunie has been in closed beta testing for a long time, although there have been bugs (which is why its called beta), there hasn't been anything catastrophic like what you think will happen in the open beta.

[MikeyVeez]

emunie has been in closed beta testing for a long time, although there have been bugs (which is why its called beta), there hasn't been anything catastrophic like what you think will happen in the open beta.

Finding a bug that gives 10x interest to an account is catastrophic, if any other sort of bug is found that would break or cheat the exchange or system, or even if the logic behind hatching and the whole system has 1 loose end, the project will fail.

Again I find it quite shady that Dan wouldn't want any help, there are things called NDAs and ways to compartment-alize the code to get help. The fact that he completely tried to ignore the interest bug, and subsequently lie about it being him, is enough to not trust anything he says. He's probably busy building another loop hole to benefit him.

Hence another reason why suggestions of hiring professionals to find vulnerabilities fell on deaf ears.

[mrvegad]

emunie has been in closed beta testing for a long time, although there have been bugs (which is why its called beta), there hasn't been anything catastrophic like what you think will happen in the open beta.

My constant "bug" reports about dat file and hatcher key manipulation was also ignored.

[extee]

emunie has been in closed beta testing for a long time, although there have been bugs (which is why its called beta), there hasn't been anything catastrophic like what you think will happen in the open beta.

My constant "bug" reports about dat file and hatcher key manipulation was also ignored.

lets see in the open beta if it has been ignored

[Peachy]

emunie has been in closed beta testing for a long time, although there have been bugs (which is why its called beta), there hasn't been anything catastrophic like what you think will happen in the open beta.

My constant "bug" reports about dat file and hatcher key manipulation was also ignored.

**sigh**

Worth repeating for yet another person to read:

The ideology applies to ANY bug identified, not just the one referenced below.  It's part of the Agile/SCRUM waterfall-iterative development SDLC (software development lifecycle).  Sorry you had leave before you could have learned fully the power of such a method of development and its advantages vs. the structured and painfully formalized Requirements Gathering process.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=445728.msg4932169#msg4932169
--Relevant Section---
"Your other accusation regarding the 'balance of hatching' seeming unfairly aligned towards Dan.  What an utter lack of system and development skills you must possess.  This issue has already been resolved within the current beta and can be verified by anyone with a modicum of SQL skills.   Just because a programmer doesn't oil YOUR squeaky wheel at the time you cry like a baby does NOT mean he doesn't know it needs to be oiled.  There is a time for those fixes to occur and it is a matter of prioritizing the requirements during the development cycle.   How sad for you that you left before you could learn such aspects of programming and instead wanted to run off crying like a child when their ice cream fell off the cone."


Links for improving your skills: (normal habits of a Lifelong learner)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agile_software_development

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrum_%28software_development%29

[hamiltino]

Hey Peachy, whats your comment on the 10x interest "bug" that was reported? Was it deliberate or not?

[Peachy]

Hey Peachy, whats your comment on the 10x interest "bug" that was reported? Was it deliberate or not?

hamiltino,
Actually, I had noticed it myself when I first joined the beta group. It was a bug within a prior version (many releases ago) which was in use at that time. 

As a tester, I made a note to myself of the condition and then searched for it among the existing threads of already reported issues. 

I found that it had already been identified and thus felt no need to further waste Dan's time by repeating another posting of it (or live mention of it within the chat box). 

About a week or so ago (can't remember exactly as there have been so many nights flying through various version changes) Dan indicated that this specific bug was "on today's menu" of a few he planned to squash that night.  A few hours later a newer beta version was released to the team.  We ran it for well over 24 hours with over 100k transactions and blocks.  At multiple hours throughout that version's life-cycle (and all subsequent versions after that one) I continue to monitor the relative dispersion of block hatching and the spread continues to be quite equitable between the high and low value.  Thus, no recurrence of the original condition.  Bug closed.

In all honesty, there was nothing nefarious about why it hadn't been fixed previously.  No "shadow conspiracy" motives with surreptitiously secret agendas.  I truly believe that some of the above individuals suffer from a grandiose sense of self-worth in that their own opinions matter far more than those of Dan's.  Accordingly, they believe that he MUST fix their issues NOW without any understanding of the his prioritization methodology. 

Personally, I find that self-important attitude a bit disingenuous.  I instead prefer to allow a truly brilliant coder such as Dan the time to work on the things that are MOST important (based on his judgement for how he sees the development should progress) with an expectation that he will work through to resolve these bugs as they move up his priority ladder.

As a developer myself for Enterprise-class applications within the Business Intelligence / Big Data environment I understand full well the Agile  development life cycle.  This is precisely the same methodology for how Dan takes the feedback from various users during his major coding activities and concurrently incorporates these minor bug fixes into the next "sprint".  These quick iterative version releases are the "quick wins" that psychologically keep the enthusiasm of the tester high as they are not having to instead wait a painful number of weeks between versions.  Thus, this makes the user "feel more engage" as they can quickly see the project moving forward as it approaches its final polished form.

[eid]

The ideology applies to ANY bug identified, not just the one referenced below.  It's part of the Agile/SCRUM waterfall-iterative development SDLC (software development lifecycle).  Sorry you had leave before you could have learned fully the power of such a method of development and its advantages vs. the structured and painfully formalized Requirements Gathering process.

Hey Peachy, whats your comment on the 10x interest "bug" that was reported? Was it deliberate or not?

hamiltino,
Actually, I had noticed it myself when I first joined the beta group. It was a bug within a prior version (many releases ago) which was in use at that time.  

As a tester, I made a note to myself of the condition and then searched for it among the existing threads of already reported issues.  

I found that it had already been identified and thus felt no need to further waste Dan's time by repeating another posting of it (or live mention of it within the chat box).  

About a week or so ago (can't remember exactly as there have been so many nights flying through various version changes) Dan indicated that this specific bug was "on today's menu" of a few he planned to squash that night.  A few hours later a newer beta version was released to the team.  We ran it for well over 24 hours with over 100k transactions and blocks.  At multiple hours throughout that version's life-cycle (and all subsequent versions after that one) I continue to monitor the relative dispersion of block hatching and the spread continues to be quite equitable between the high and low value.  Thus, no recurrence of the original condition.  Bug closed.

In all honesty, there was nothing nefarious about why it hadn't been fixed previously.  No "shadow conspiracy" motives with surreptitiously secret agendas.  I truly believe that some of the above individuals suffer from a grandiose sense of self-worth in that their own opinions matter far more than those of Dan's.  Accordingly, they believe that he MUST fix their issues NOW without any understanding of the his prioritization methodology.  

Personally, I find that self-important attitude a bit disingenuous.  I instead prefer to allow a truly brilliant coder such as Dan the time to work on the things that are MOST important (based on his judgement for how he sees the development should progress) with an expectation that he will work through to resolve these bugs as they move up his priority ladder.

As a developer myself for Enterprise-class applications within the Business Intelligence / Big Data environment I understand full well the Agile  development life cycle.  This is precisely the same methodology for how Dan takes the feedback from various users during his major coding activities and concurrently incorporates these minor bug fixes into the next "sprint".  These quick iterative version releases are the "quick wins" that psychologically keep the enthusiasm of the tester high as they are not having to instead wait a painful number of weeks between versions.  Thus, this makes the user "feel more engage" as they can quickly see the project moving forward as it approaches its final polished form.

Thanks for explaining to us dummies what a prioritised queue is; such an esoteric concept  

 I truly believe that some of the above individuals suffer from a grandiose sense of self-worth

 mmhmm

[Eadeqa]

Why do you hate java so much, is it because its an internet trend to hate java?. Java is the second most used programming language in the world (next to C) , the programming language was also taught in my university. I've written in both python and Java and Java is a much more feature rich language for object oriented programming.

The Java docs are also extremely detailed.

Maybe they see it as proprietary technology developed by a corporation?!
Compared to python I think is P.I.T.A. to develop in java
as it requires to write bunch of code to do some simple tasks.

Open JDK is open source licensed under GPL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenJDK

Java has been around a long time (1996).

Amazon.com and ebay.com run on java on server side

"as it requires to write bunch of code to do some simple tasks."

Nonsense. You don't know what you are talking about

[freigeist]

Why do you hate java so much, is it because its an internet trend to hate java?. Java is the second most used programming language in the world (next to C) , the programming language was also taught in my university. I've written in both python and Java and Java is a much more feature rich language for object oriented programming.

The Java docs are also extremely detailed.

Maybe they see it as proprietary technology developed by a corporation?!
Compared to python I think is P.I.T.A. to develop in java
as it requires to write bunch of code to do some simple tasks.

Open JDK is open source licensed under GPL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenJDK

Java has been around a long time (1996).

Amazon.com and ebay.com run on java on server side

"as it requires to write bunch of code to do some simple tasks."

Nonsense. You don't know what you are talking about

php code to read from file:

Code:

$content = file_get_contents("filepath");

php code to read from url:

Code:

$content = file_get_contents("http://javaispita.com");

python code to read from file:

Code:

fp = open("filepath","r")
content = fp.read()
fp.close()

java code to read from file:

Code:

BufferedReader br = new BufferedReader(new FileReader("filepath"));
StringBuilder sb = new StringBuilder();
String content = null; 

try {
	String line;
	while((line = br.readLine() != null) sb.append(line);
	content = sb.toString();

} catch (IOException e) {
	e.printStackTrace();
} finally {
	br.close();
}

The code speaks by itself.

[Eadeqa]

Why do you hate java so much, is it because its an internet trend to hate java?. Java is the second most used programming language in the world (next to C) , the programming language was also taught in my university. I've written in both python and Java and Java is a much more feature rich language for object oriented programming.

The Java docs are also extremely detailed.

Maybe they see it as proprietary technology developed by a corporation?!
Compared to python I think is P.I.T.A. to develop in java
as it requires to write bunch of code to do some simple tasks.

Open JDK is open source licensed under GPL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenJDK

Java has been around a long time (1996).

Amazon.com and ebay.com run on java on server side

"as it requires to write bunch of code to do some simple tasks."

Nonsense. You don't know what you are talking about

php code to read from file:

Code:

$content = file_get_contents("filepath");

php code to read from url:

Code:

$content = file_get_contents("http://javaispita.com");

python code to read from file:

Code:

fp = open("filepath","r")
content = fp.read()
fp.close()

java code to read from file:

Code:

BufferedReader br = new BufferedReader(new FileReader("filepath"));
StringBuilder sb = new StringBuilder();
String content = null; 

try {
	String line;
	while((line = br.readLine() != null) sb.append(line);
	content = sb.toString();

} catch (IOException e) {
	e.printStackTrace();
} finally {
	br.close();
}

The code speaks by itself.

The discussion started by someone whose exact quote was this: "call me when its in something i trust(C++)"

Where did PHP came in this discussion?

There is no reason to "trust" software on the basis whether it's written in C++ or Java.

[jl777]

My concerns are never addressed
Leads me to conclude emunie is ripple 2.0 without any vc money and a dev staff of 1 coming out with new economics and 50% postmine, but source is closed and no whitepaper, unexplained hatching algos, etc

Govts worldwide will be all over any monetary price fixing that actually works. My analysis is that emunie price cannot go up, but it can go down. At best you get more emunies when demand comes in, but half of it goes to hatchers, so when it goes down your are guaranteed a loss of around 50%

When the buyside buffer is gone, what stops downward spiral?
Whitepaper that explains magical monetary system would go a long way to build confidence, in fact critical for any sane investor. As it is i have to express my concerns to people as any crypto that is overhyped and blows up is bad for all crypto

James

[BitThink]

My concerns are never addressed
Leads me to conclude emunie is ripple 2.0 without any vc money and a dev staff of 1 coming out with new economics and 50% postmine, but source is closed and no whitepaper, unexplained hatching algos, etc

Govts worldwide will be all over any monetary price fixing that actually works. My analysis is that emunie price cannot go up, but it can go down. At best you get more emunies when demand comes in, but half of it goes to hatchers, so when it goes down your are guaranteed a loss of around 50%

When the buyside buffer is gone, what stops downward spiral?
Whitepaper that explains magical monetary system would go a long way to build confidence, in fact critical for any sane investor. As it is i have to express my concerns to people as any crypto that is overhyped and blows up is bad for all crypto

James

Nice summary.

Nobody comments on what eid said that the DEX part has not been written yet? How does the buffer system work if trade between EMU and BTC is outside? If they are traded outside, the system has no way to know its price. Does this mean emunie cannot be traded until the DEX is written and tested and deployed?

[windjc]

I'm sorry but I have been beta tester of Emunie before Eid came along. I saw almost every interaction this kid had in the troll box while he was a part of the project.

I say "this kid" because Eid is 18 years old. He has no programming background, on economics background, not much life experience and very little money in which he could have invested in Emunie anyway. None of these things is necessarily bad, but as one that has owned several business and made millions of dollars from them, Eid and the way his mind works as a teenager never really impressed me.

Visin promoted him to forum moderator which shocked me frankly. Visin was looking for help and at the time Eid was a cheerleader and I guess Visin believed Eid would be good at the job. However, Eid was a poor moderator, one who constantly wanted to censor people. In fact, I remember multiple occasions where Eid and Visin sparred because Eid was wanting to warn and potentially ban forum members for criticizing Dan and the project.

Eid's behavior motivated me to ask him his age and how he found emunie and gather more information about him. Once, I understood these things I could explain better his behavior.

Eid leaving Emunie is not surprising. He is prone, as many teenagers are, to pretty severe mood/opinion swings. I think he means well, but his criticisms of Emunie are laughable.

Is Dan the best at personal PR? Nope. But at least he has the balls to not be anonymous. And he works harder than anyone criticizing him. As for all the other criticisms about Emunie, guess what? --> we will all find out, won't we?  In the next days, weeks and months to come, we will see if Eid's worries are founded or not.

I am betting the 18 year old is dead wrong.

And, by the way guys and girls, you can get answer to all your questions over at forum.emunie.com. Do a little research and reading for yourself. Asking 18 year olds to answer your business and technical questions is ridiculous.

[BitThink]

I'm sorry but I have been beta tester of Emunie before Eid came along. I saw almost every interaction this kid had in the troll box while he was a part of the project.

I say "this kid" because Eid is 18 years old. He has no programming background, on economics background, not much life experience and very little money in which he could have invested in Emunie anyway. None of these things is necessarily bad, but as one that has owned several business and made millions of dollars from them, Eid and the way his mind works as a teenager never really impressed me.

Visin promoted him to forum moderator which shocked me frankly. Visin was looking for help and at the time Eid was a cheerleader and I guess Visin believed Eid would be good at the job. However, Eid was a poor moderator, one who constantly wanted to censor people. In fact, I remember multiple occasions where Eid and Visin sparred because Eid was wanting to warn and potentially ban forum members for criticizing Dan and the project.

Eid's behavior motivated me to ask him his age and how he found emunie and gather more information about him. Once, I understood these things I could explain better his behavior.

Eid leaving Emunie is not surprising. He is prone, as many teenagers are, to pretty severe mood/opinion swings. I think he means well, but his criticisms of Emunie are laughable.

Is Dan the best at personal PR? Nope. But at least he has the balls to not be anonymous. And he works harder than anyone criticizing him. As for all the other criticisms about Emunie, guess what? --> we will all find out, won't we?  In the next days, weeks and months to come, we will see if Eid's worries are founded or not.

I am betting the 18 year old is dead wrong.

And, by the way guys and girls, you can get answer to all your questions over at forum.emunie.com. Do a little research and reading for yourself. Asking 18 year olds to answer your business and technical questions is ridiculous.

In a debate, we should focus on the words rather than the people. You could argue which part of his arguments are not right and give solid evidences, and in my opinion that's way more effective than attacking people's age.

For example, could you confirm whether the DEX function has been implemented? If not, what was the timeline and whether the EMU trade-able before DEX is implemented? Could you help to clarify why Dan refuse to open source at least a little bit of his code?

We, as potential investor, care more about the facts rather than people's age.

[windjc]

I'm sorry but I have been beta tester of Emunie before Eid came along. I saw almost every interaction this kid had in the troll box while he was a part of the project.

I say "this kid" because Eid is 18 years old. He has no programming background, on economics background, not much life experience and very little money in which he could have invested in Emunie anyway. None of these things is necessarily bad, but as one that has owned several business and made millions of dollars from them, Eid and the way his mind works as a teenager never really impressed me.

Visin promoted him to forum moderator which shocked me frankly. Visin was looking for help and at the time Eid was a cheerleader and I guess Visin believed Eid would be good at the job. However, Eid was a poor moderator, one who constantly wanted to censor people. In fact, I remember multiple occasions where Eid and Visin sparred because Eid was wanting to warn and potentially ban forum members for criticizing Dan and the project.

Eid's behavior motivated me to ask him his age and how he found emunie and gather more information about him. Once, I understood these things I could explain better his behavior.

Eid leaving Emunie is not surprising. He is prone, as many teenagers are, to pretty severe mood/opinion swings. I think he means well, but his criticisms of Emunie are laughable.

Is Dan the best at personal PR? Nope. But at least he has the balls to not be anonymous. And he works harder than anyone criticizing him. As for all the other criticisms about Emunie, guess what? --> we will all find out, won't we?  In the next days, weeks and months to come, we will see if Eid's worries are founded or not.

I am betting the 18 year old is dead wrong.

And, by the way guys and girls, you can get answer to all your questions over at forum.emunie.com. Do a little research and reading for yourself. Asking 18 year olds to answer your business and technical questions is ridiculous.

In a debate, we should focus on the words rather than the people. You could argue which part of his arguments are not right and give solid evidences, and in my opinion that's way more effective than attacking people's age.

For example, could you confirm whether the DEX function has been implemented? If not, what was the timeline and whether the EMU trade-able before DEX is implemented? Could you help to clarify why Dan refuse to open source at least a little bit of his code?

We, as potential investor, care more about the facts rather than people's age.

I could answer those questions. Or I could tell you to go read the forum and do the due diligence that a wise investor would do.

Which is what I am telling you to do.

If you go read the forum and still have questions I'll be more than happy to answer any other questions you may have.

[valdepretium]

I'm sorry but I have been beta tester of Emunie before Eid came along. I saw almost every interaction this kid had in the troll box while he was a part of the project.

>>>>>>>>>SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

And, by the way guys and girls, you can get answer to all your questions over at forum.emunie.com. Do a little research and reading for yourself. Asking 18 year olds to answer your business and technical questions is ridiculous.

In a debate, we should focus on the words rather than the people. You could argue which part of his arguments are not right and give solid evidences, and in my opinion that's way more effective than attacking people's age.

For example, could you confirm whether the DEX function has been implemented? If not, what was the timeline and whether the EMU trade-able before DEX is implemented? Could you help to clarify why Dan refuse to open source at least a little bit of his code?

We, as potential investor, care more about the facts rather than people's age.

+1

Stick to the important topics, this mudslinging gets us no-where. Answer the questions asked, or just come out & say "we don't know" or "we're not gonna tell you".

The open beta is now running & looks pretty good, but the DEX function is the backbone of eMunie supply regulation system.

[jl777]

I'm sorry but I have been beta tester of Emunie before Eid came along. I saw almost every interaction this kid had in the troll box while he was a part of the project.

I say "this kid" because Eid is 18 years old. He has no programming background, on economics background, not much life experience and very little money in which he could have invested in Emunie anyway. None of these things is necessarily bad, but as one that has owned several business and made millions of dollars from them, Eid and the way his mind works as a teenager never really impressed me.

Visin promoted him to forum moderator which shocked me frankly. Visin was looking for help and at the time Eid was a cheerleader and I guess Visin believed Eid would be good at the job. However, Eid was a poor moderator, one who constantly wanted to censor people. In fact, I remember multiple occasions where Eid and Visin sparred because Eid was wanting to warn and potentially ban forum members for criticizing Dan and the project.

Eid's behavior motivated me to ask him his age and how he found emunie and gather more information about him. Once, I understood these things I could explain better his behavior.

Eid leaving Emunie is not surprising. He is prone, as many teenagers are, to pretty severe mood/opinion swings. I think he means well, but his criticisms of Emunie are laughable.

Is Dan the best at personal PR? Nope. But at least he has the balls to not be anonymous. And he works harder than anyone criticizing him. As for all the other criticisms about Emunie, guess what? --> we will all find out, won't we?  In the next days, weeks and months to come, we will see if Eid's worries are founded or not.

I am betting the 18 year old is dead wrong.

And, by the way guys and girls, you can get answer to all your questions over at forum.emunie.com. Do a little research and reading for yourself. Asking 18 year olds to answer your business and technical questions is ridiculous.

Am i 18 or 81?
How old do i have to be to get my questions answered.
Thats exactly how old i am!
Answers?

[BitThink]

I'm sorry but I have been beta tester of Emunie before Eid came along. I saw almost every interaction this kid had in the troll box while he was a part of the project.

I say "this kid" because Eid is 18 years old. He has no programming background, on economics background, not much life experience and very little money in which he could have invested in Emunie anyway. None of these things is necessarily bad, but as one that has owned several business and made millions of dollars from them, Eid and the way his mind works as a teenager never really impressed me.

Visin promoted him to forum moderator which shocked me frankly. Visin was looking for help and at the time Eid was a cheerleader and I guess Visin believed Eid would be good at the job. However, Eid was a poor moderator, one who constantly wanted to censor people. In fact, I remember multiple occasions where Eid and Visin sparred because Eid was wanting to warn and potentially ban forum members for criticizing Dan and the project.

Eid's behavior motivated me to ask him his age and how he found emunie and gather more information about him. Once, I understood these things I could explain better his behavior.

Eid leaving Emunie is not surprising. He is prone, as many teenagers are, to pretty severe mood/opinion swings. I think he means well, but his criticisms of Emunie are laughable.

Is Dan the best at personal PR? Nope. But at least he has the balls to not be anonymous. And he works harder than anyone criticizing him. As for all the other criticisms about Emunie, guess what? --> we will all find out, won't we?  In the next days, weeks and months to come, we will see if Eid's worries are founded or not.

I am betting the 18 year old is dead wrong.

And, by the way guys and girls, you can get answer to all your questions over at forum.emunie.com. Do a little research and reading for yourself. Asking 18 year olds to answer your business and technical questions is ridiculous.

In a debate, we should focus on the words rather than the people. You could argue which part of his arguments are not right and give solid evidences, and in my opinion that's way more effective than attacking people's age.

For example, could you confirm whether the DEX function has been implemented? If not, what was the timeline and whether the EMU trade-able before DEX is implemented? Could you help to clarify why Dan refuse to open source at least a little bit of his code?

We, as potential investor, care more about the facts rather than people's age.

I could answer those questions. Or I could tell you to go read the forum and do the due diligence that a wise investor would do.

Which is what I am telling you to do.

If you go read the forum and still have questions I'll be more than happy to answer any other questions you may have.

Actually I am a registered user there, and I've read most posts there but I still don't have the answers of my questions above. No beta tests have told us whether DEX is implemented or not and how EMU can be exchanged when there's no DEX yet.