[ANN] Catcoin - 0.9.1.1 - Old thread. Locked. Please use 0.9.2 thread.

[SlimePuppy]

For the members of the community that are interested, testnet is rolling again after a bit of a summer vacation.  Now that we are not in an emergency, there's plenty of time to get this coin debugged the right way.

One of many changes being made is to remove ALL of Hozer's code.  One of the kludges we accepted because of the emergency of the last fork was a 30 second minimum block time.  This was done to ease the severe 'galloping' the algo was doing when we got hit hard.  That is not an acceptable long-term solution because it potentially dumps valid blocks.  The also needs to properly adjust to hash rate changes without penalizing miners or stealing blocks they rightfully earned.

I want to make sure everyone reads and understands that because Hozer decided to run hacked code on personal CAT nodes and on one of the main network's three seed nodes, that his node has been removed from the DNS tables for the network.  We have already removed his seed node from the catcoinofficial/catcoinrelease GIT but it's not yet been compiled into the clients.  This will be pushed for the forthcoming fork.

Additionally - we strongly recommend that the community NOT run any of Hozer's code.  None of it is official and none of it should be run on the main CAT network.  Hozer has decided that the way to 'fix' the coin is to kludge the code so the 'charts look good' - and he aims to do that by setting 'approved' block times closer to 10 minutes.  In other words, he expects miners to accept that most of their work will be dumped into the trash can - he expects miners to remain on the network even when they only get credit for SOME of the blocks they find.  As Blaksmith pointed out, this is the crypto equivalent of withdrawing $200 from a teller machine and only getting $100 or $50.  Put in very simple terms:  Hozer has decided that to fix the algo AND to attract 'quality' miners, he thinks we should agree to steal from miners.  After me, Blak, Zerodrama and others pulled out of shock and made it clear to him that this was completely unacceptable behavior, he took it on himself to hack mainnet. This is not a political disagreement, or one being done in secret by a closed group - this is a basic moral and ethical 'line in the sand' that the CAT development team are not now and will NEVER be thieves.  Because he violated our oath to NEVER run non-release code on mainnet, and because he thinks theft is a viable option that should be 'debated' by the team, he has been kicked and banned from the dev team and the dev channels.

So far on testnet, we ran 'pre-filter' function Hozer designed for the current PID.  Two rounds of his filter were run with his parameters and they failed.  I suggested a shorter set of moving averages for his filter and that failed as well.  What's being done now is that Blaksmith, the author of the current PID algo and a professional programmer paid to code PID for his day job, has re-written the PID to use different timings and some more sophisticated analysis of block time changes.  The first version of this is on testnet now.  It will take a number of days for it to get the rest of the data it needs, then we'll start abusing it.  More news on progress as it happens.  http://testnet.geekhash.org/

Bottom line folks - we believe in CAT, we believe in the trust of the algo, the block chain, the community, and the dev team - and we will not do anything to violate this trust, and we will not allow anyone in our group to, either.

Stay tuned for the best and most stable network yet - just in time for CAT's first birthday!

Andy

[SlimePuppy]

I think we need to see more updates here on BTCTalk. I don't particularly feel like having to return to IRC in the hope that I'll see updates instead of devs and other community figures flinging shit at each other and generally acting like children all over again.

I'm back, skillface, testnet is back, and as far as we're concerned, CAT is back.  The childish BS that used to take place in -dev is a thing of the past.

And absolutely - there will be progress updates here.

[ThePeePs]

I am on board, always have been, always will be.  Though i cant write C/++ I can write in a few others (scripting lang's).  If people have questions on how to run the clients, mine, etc, I'm willing to entertain any questions.

I'm almost always around during the day on IRC.

[hozer]

I think there are a lot of legitimate stakeholders in Catcoin, and it is hard to quantify their stakes - some have put in a lot of sweat equity, but do not hold very many coins; some have put in a lot of effort but have very little mining hashpower; some have more massive mining power, but may have engaged in profit switching at is hard to prove.

My thought is that it is pretty hard to fake if someone has done any substantial coding on Catcoin or related projects; and it is hard to fake how many Catcoins someone controls

Here's the thing about profit switching.

If done *transparently*, it's a good thing, and if it's not a good thing, the code is broken, not the ethics of the profit switcher. This seems to be at the core of the ideological fork that has been brewing for a long time. My advice is don't run any code unless you see some evidence the developers at least have a mental model of how and why profit switchers do what they do, and how their code is going to give a similar coins-per-megahash return to both large profit-switchers and small miners.

And, please be aware that if you mine catcoin 'for the community' without regard for your own return you are subsidizing someone else's profits, and at least try to be aware of where it's going, or accept you may be subsidizing and feeding the things you speak most loudly against.

What has gotten me really angry in the past is how the catcoin market seems to respond more to mind viruses ( http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/19/business/economy/when-a-stock-market-theory-is-contagious.html?rref=upshot ) than to what I believe the fundamentals are. For example, does anyone have any better reasonable explanation as to why we have an increase in price and an average hashrate of 200mhash? There are several theories I have, and one of them is that the miners and investors are quantitatively responding positively to discussions about code and the fundamental mathematics of what is a reasonable way to adjust difficulty.

Also beware of anyone who asks you to trust them. Read my code, and trust the mathematics, but it would be a very bad idea to trust some cult-like ideal of what I should be if you do not want to take a great deal of time to understand why I do things, and what motivates me.

I can write code, and when I'm posting here I apparently write market-moving mind viruses, or I'm feeding some other virus if I write when I'm pissed off, which is why I'd really like to have another forum for discussion. If you can find those people that meet those criteria you mentioned above, then let's get a new *public* forum going.

[etblvu1]

I'm inclined to let the incumbent team give another shot at getting the Catcoin client right, just because they seem to be motivated, and apparently has resources and volunteers. These count for a lot.

However, I also want to point out that there seems to be a steady stream of people who are getting kicked out one at a time, sometimes (but not always) for ideological reasons. It seems that the incumbent ideological kicker-out peson has returned from retirement. As I have pointed out previously, the ideological aspect of people getting kicked out discourages innovation. As a coinholder, I would not want these people who got kicked out to necessarily disappear into the sunset - I would want them to stick around in case the current team fails to again deliver promised results - because they may be needed at some point if a new team will need to be constituted to handle the situation.

Since there seems to be a coherent governing structure of sorts already with coders involved, it would be redundant to set up any sort of committee consisting of coders and coinholders. Maybe a stakeholder group can be formed consisting of only substantial coinholders who can discuss amongsts themselves and report back preferences on what in their opinion will maximize coinholder value (i.e., make the coins worth more in the future), which the existing team can take under advisement, and possibly can accept as an authoritative requests or even can accept as commands especially if the group represents the vast majority of the coins in existence. I don't think it's a stretch to treat coinholders as analogous to shareholders in a corporation, so if the owners of the majority of the coins vote to fire employees of the coin, that should come to be recognized as a legitimate prerogative. There seems to be no other objectively measurable criteria by which any commands regarding the future of the coin should be regarded as authoritative. Certainly obnoxiousness and loudness should not count.

If anyone reading this believes they are in the top 10 largest coinholder category (criteria I am proposing), I am happy to act as a coordinating person to set up such a committee. Anyone can join this committee by buying Catcoins on the open market or mining and holding sufficiently to achieve top 10 largest coinholder status.

Etblvu1

[hozer]

I'm inclined to let the incumbent team give another shot at getting the Catcoin client right, just because they seem to be motivated, and apparently has resources and volunteers. These count for a lot.

If anyone reading this believes they are in the top 10 largest coinholder category (criteria I am proposing), I am happy to act as a coordinating person to set up such a committee. Anyone can join this committee by buying Catcoins on the open market or mining and holding sufficiently to achieve top 10 largest coinholder status.

Etblvu1

I'm also inclined to see what sort of code TeamCatCoinRelease comes up with. I have a few criteria they would be wise to at least consider.

• coding standards. tab/spacing/etc should be consistent, at least in the main.cpp file. I don't care which coding standards you pick (that's your religious choice), but **pick one**.
• readability
• testing of fair mining rewards in the presence of multi-gigahash profit-driven switchpools
• signed binaries My recommendation is sign the binaries with a catcoin private key.
• CBlockIndex::IsSuperMajority should be used to deploy any new hardforks, instead of block-number

There are 17 addresses in the 10KiloCat club. Your Catcoin will be worth a lot more if you come forward and let us know who you are, and why Cats should make you rich.

Code:

                 Balance                              Base58   nbIn lastTimeIn                 nbOut lastTimeOut
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
         750000.00000000  9oENH49Qmz8BBmK85UCL8dgRBhputUinNf      9 Tue Aug 12 07:30:10 2014       1 Fri Aug 22 15:26:34 2014
          82872.08007760  9hqDhB5QeoUxkWfUXCGKUz8J1Qq81Mo5qy      9 Sun Mar 30 13:50:52 2014       0 Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
          62368.65787407  9cdCQr86XY3JMZotAtDRjGJ2oBZAHTumVp    917 Tue Oct 21 14:21:15 2014     198 Sat Oct 18 17:37:15 2014
          49999.00000000  9nteH73g1hUp3KhCb6CKc9kzTmqhuEzVSZ      1 Fri Aug 22 15:26:34 2014       0 Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
          32001.50000000  9q5z55yrVJTWpZ36BFpWxhtEZEeuQ9B89N      5 Sun Mar  2 01:49:03 2014       0 Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
          25500.00000000  9dWxU4sstMA6cEHY4fQd3VvmxKBG2SGZTi      1 Wed Oct  8 13:07:07 2014       0 Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
          17972.76455187  9UivaqK4TNLuUS4cLAC5wsaa7GAKKAS6gD      2 Sat Apr 12 07:19:43 2014       0 Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
          16851.59485350  9nX2yQMwGRQsamftkyk145CSTj1ED6B7Md     22 Sat Feb  1 23:03:22 2014      11 Wed Jan 22 18:16:57 2014
          15369.60167993  9qmVD4ZhEQvipCxNn7eSGfBBTPFwEB6Tzo      1 Thu Dec 26 03:29:37 2013       0 Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
          15050.30105237  9r4mQ19gTzPobVw68EjzozFTzJAdsFc3pk   5626 Sun Jan 26 16:31:01 2014    5325 Wed Jan 29 16:29:07 2014
          14174.07432564  9dJ52povvDTifYgoiVXgiU6QzrSTRgVBzv      2 Mon Aug  4 01:41:43 2014       0 Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
          13500.00000000  9TEQmMWqYdMZ6brZRuTLMsqcCR8ob6uJjb    270 Tue Dec 24 00:58:50 2013       0 Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
          13250.00000000  9rDyTGtWwPmdKH5MDPzzrsvMZMe9dJo33w    265 Tue Dec 24 01:00:17 2013       0 Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
          11434.29415078  9ppna6KnBZ5YxLrrs3ewJhjdDdEXwi4p3j    277 Mon Mar 31 15:24:12 2014      93 Tue Aug 12 07:30:10 2014
          10850.00000000  9Tsq4ERsvZiNvThk3AKoeXn1hDP5nVRPnD    217 Tue Dec 24 01:37:32 2013       0 Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
          10000.66310246  9Wm5NaUYn7Lv8eL1W6BmjCSYuCduvzjNSa    235 Sat Apr  5 01:27:26 2014      65 Tue Aug 12 07:30:10 2014
          10000.00000000  9nV6xn8geQHSEPv1kckMnPA9pGDtmY7h7t      1 Wed Mar 12 22:08:07 2014       0 Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970

[SlimePuppy]

The suggestion that 'deep pockets should run the world' is not part of crypto.  Neither code nor crypto gives a hoot how many coins one holds.  If large holders want to be part of the process, they'll come forward.  If they don't, then they won't - and shouldn't.  If anyone thinks otherwise, Goldman Sachs is hiring...

Either way, the politics of currency does not belong here.

Put another way - what part of 'pseudonymous' or 'anonymous' is so difficult to understand?

[SlimePuppy]

Fellow CATians - I highly recommend these videos from World Bitcoin Network and James D'Angelo - the Bitcoin 101 Blackboard Series.

For a very timely and on-topic sanity check, I recommend that all interested watch the "Bitcoin 101 - What is Bitcoin?" presentation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bhe61JaNFLU

The second most recommended video from the list is "Bitcoin 101 - Why Mining?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cMjR0mB9Sc


Remember that all of crypto was born from Satoshi Nakamoto's Bitcoin - and Bitcoin was born out of a desire to fix the problems of the global financial meltdown and to eliminate the types of thinking that continually cause them.

Here's the full play-list:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzctEq7iZD-7-DgJM604zsndMapn9ff6q

Here's hoping that once we recognize the problems we're working to fix that it'll make it easier to spot the wolves...

Cheers,
Andy

[hozer]

The suggestion that 'deep pockets should run the world' is not part of crypto.  Neither code nor crypto gives a hoot how many coins one holds.  If large holders want to be part of the process, they'll come forward.  If they don't, then they won't - and shouldn't.  If anyone thinks otherwise, Goldman Sachs is hiring...

Either way, the politics of currency does not belong here.

Put another way - what part of 'pseudonymous' or 'anonymous' is so difficult to understand?

The unfortunate reality is that the politics of currency exist in catcoin because most of the people working on it live in a country where the deep pockets elect the politicians. So there's the goliath of deep pockets, and the goliath of government bureaucracy, both of which either have lots of money, or can create it by printing more. If you think the politics of currency does not belong here, I can respect that ideological position, and express my position that the reality we have is the politics of deep pockets and the loudest FUD.

Although you are the dictator of #catcoin-dev, you are not the dictator of Catcoin, and if others who you might wish to silence say that politics of currency belongs here, because it's a reality of the world the code and blockchain exists in, then it belongs here.

My ideological position (with which you are free to differ) is that anonymity only helps the two goliaths, and the people that wield secrets as power. So far, I see no evidence that either one of them has taken much of an interest in Catcoin. Yet. Catcoin is also not in any way anonymous. If Cryptsy got a subpoena to turn over all records of catcoin transactions, it would be pretty damn easy to identify every transaction and who made it, all the way back to the instamining at the start.

I'm also very interested to see this code you're testing. Do you plan to publish for public comment, or keep it hidden so only the insiders know the flaws in advance? Do you have a process figured out for posting the release candidates for a new fork?

[SlimePuppy]

The suggestion that 'deep pockets should run the world' is not part of crypto.  Neither code nor crypto gives a hoot how many coins one holds.  If large holders want to be part of the process, they'll come forward.  If they don't, then they won't - and shouldn't.  If anyone thinks otherwise, Goldman Sachs is hiring...

Either way, the politics of currency does not belong here.

Put another way - what part of 'pseudonymous' or 'anonymous' is so difficult to understand?

The unfortunate reality is that the politics of currency exist in catcoin because most of the people working on it live in a country where the deep pockets elect the politicians. So there's the goliath of deep pockets, and the goliath of government bureaucracy, both of which either have lots of money, or can create it by printing more. If you think the politics of currency does not belong here, I can respect that ideological position, and express my position that the reality we have is the politics of deep pockets and the loudest FUD.

This is a non sequitur on multiple levels.  First, it requires accepting that all citizens of the US are likewise controlled - and they are not.  Secondly, it requires accepting that this is strictly a US project, and it's not.  I would agree that this forum has been unduly influenced by the 'loudest FUD' - a tactic you are using now and have used successfully in the past.  Those days are over.  I'm certain you can find an on-line home where you can exchange notes with others that believe as you do.

Although you are the dictator of #catcoin-dev, you are not the dictator of Catcoin, and if others who you might wish to silence say that politics of currency belongs here, because it's a reality of the world the code and blockchain exists in, then it belongs here.

I am the dictator of nothing.  I'm simply the person given the task of communicating.  As for your view of politics and the block chain, had you reviewed the papers and videos I've given to you here, in -dev, and personally via email, you'd understand that you are attempting to connect two dots that are not and should not be connected.  That's not 'my' position alone - that's the position of the entire crypto movement.  Crypto is a potential solution to the diseases of deep pockets, undue political influence, and manipulations of the criminally insane.  I question the motives of anyone that is attempting to paint this project with such a brush, especially after they have demonstrated either the unwillingness or inability to abide by the agreements they voluntarily made.

My ideological position (with which you are free to differ) is that anonymity only helps the two goliaths, and the people that wield secrets as power. So far, I see no evidence that either one of them has taken much of an interest in Catcoin. Yet. Catcoin is also not in any way anonymous. If Cryptsy got a subpoena to turn over all records of catcoin transactions, it would be pretty damn easy to identify every transaction and who made it, all the way back to the instamining at the start.

As you might or might not remember, Troy, my first career was conducting this type of analysis.  There is nothing inherently anonymous about crypto - the block chain and all transactions are as open and publicly viewable as they can be - by design!  Review the NYC hearings and the process of taking-down Silk Road for a refresher.

The only step of the cryptocurrency process that provides an 'air gap' between addresses and names is the one that happens between the keyboard and the wallet.  That should remain.  You were calling for the 'outing' of large holders.  That's not your call - especially after disgracing yourself and getting tossed out on your ass.  Now you've switched positions and are suggesting that anonymity is important and is somehow at risk.  The only problem I personally have with your 'ideological position' is that you appear to have so many of them.

I'm also very interested to see this code you're testing. Do you plan to publish for public comment, or keep it hidden so only the insiders know the flaws in advance? Do you have a process figured out for posting the release candidates for a new fork?

The code on testnet is just as open as all the rest of the code that's been tested since CAT began.  It is undergoing testing and continual modification as is expected of any system undergoing active development.  It will be published in advance of release just as all previous changes have been.  This process will be very unlike previous software releases, however, as this is not an emergency fix and we are not running against the clock.  It will be well tested and reviewed my multiple sets of eyes.  This will be a 100% solution or it will not be deployed - period. 

[pineapples]

oh it's been so long since i looked at catcoin.
good to see it so active

but i liked the old logo better :DDDD

[catcoin1]

oh it's been so long since i looked at cat[Suspicious link removed]d to see it so active

but i liked the old logo better :DDDD
https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.weserv.nl%2F%3Furl%3Di.imgur.com%2FpiZ6oRr.png%26fnr&t=545&c=ICHlWxa0h604CA

Yes i did like this logo too

[BitcoinNational]

[allcrypt]

CatCoinhas just been added to AllCrypt.com! The coin is live and available right now, although the blockchain might still be downloading - if so, deposits and deposit address generation will not be available until the blockchain is complete.

We have (or will very soon) post an announcement on Twitter as well. Follow us on twitter (@all_crypt or https://twitter.com/All_Crypt) to help spread the word and keep abreast of site news and updates.

We'd appreciate being listed as an active exchange in the OP of the this thread. If you'd like a high quality PNG logo to use, a zip is available at: http://www.allcrypt.com/aclogopack.zip

Important note: It sucks for everyone when there is a fork, or a version upgrade, and we don't get notified. Sometimes developers just tweet that there is an upgrade. We're busy running the site - very often we miss tweets - we get a lot every day! If there is an emergency upgrade, a hard fork coming in less than a week, a major issue that requires an immediate upgrade, if it's tweeted at us we may not see it. The only truly RELIABLE way to ensure we know about a mandatory upgrade is to submit a support ticket. Just have someone hop by http://support.allcrypt.com and let us know. We see those all the time, including on the dev staff's mobile devices.

If for some reason your github source changes (community takeover for example) PLEASE let us know that in the ticket. Our system is highly automated, and if you issue a new source code under a new git address, we won't know unless thats provided - our system will check the old address for the new version. Since we save it, you only need to worry about it if the github location changes. In all other cases, just letting us know we need to upgrade is enough!

I think that covers it! Thanks for your support of AllCrypt and we're proud to support you in return!

[ThePeePs]

CatCoinhas just been added to AllCrypt.com! The coin is live and available right now, although the blockchain might still be downloading - if so, deposits and deposit address generation will not be available until the blockchain is complete.

We have (or will very soon) post an announcement on Twitter as well. Follow us on twitter (@all_crypt or https://twitter.com/All_Crypt) to help spread the word and keep abreast of site news and updates.

We'd appreciate being listed as an active exchange in the OP of the this thread. If you'd like a high quality PNG logo to use, a zip is available at: http://www.allcrypt.com/aclogopack.zip

Important note: It sucks for everyone when there is a fork, or a version upgrade, and we don't get notified. Sometimes developers just tweet that there is an upgrade. We're busy running the site - very often we miss tweets - we get a lot every day! If there is an emergency upgrade, a hard fork coming in less than a week, a major issue that requires an immediate upgrade, if it's tweeted at us we may not see it. The only truly RELIABLE way to ensure we know about a mandatory upgrade is to submit a support ticket. Just have someone hop by http://support.allcrypt.com and let us know. We see those all the time, including on the dev staff's mobile devices.

If for some reason your github source changes (community takeover for example) PLEASE let us know that in the ticket. Our system is highly automated, and if you issue a new source code under a new git address, we won't know unless thats provided - our system will check the old address for the new version. Since we save it, you only need to worry about it if the github location changes. In all other cases, just letting us know we need to upgrade is enough!

I think that covers it! Thanks for your support of AllCrypt and we're proud to support you in return!

WooT!  Thanks for the add!

[skillface]

So, CAT's birthday is in less than a week.

PLEASE tell me we have something positive to look forward to.

[damm315er]

So, CAT's birthday is in less than a week.

PLEASE tell me we have something positive to look forward to.

Being cat-lined... (coming up on 25 hours without a block being solved)

[etblvu1]

If the "development team" has gone inactive, it may be time for us to build a new team. I have made a proposal for the board of directors for the coin to manage its future. To the "development team" in sleeping, speak up or forever hold your peace, or man up and officially transfer the reigns to the board of directors.
Thank you.
Etblvu1

[BitcoinNational]

development team smells like kitty litter, in house of a 1000 cats.

Cat lined ........................... (mack25 is the doctor of this massive fail?)
........................................................................... no pulse on a simple scrypt pow because one person won't hand over the keys?

means perma-stuck in cryptsy's wallets
means even if we fix the code they'll still refuse to 'update'
means craptsy is king of Cat

[Blaksmith]

If the "development team" has gone inactive, it may be time for us to build a new team. I have made a proposal for the board of directors for the coin to manage its future. To the "development team" in sleeping, speak up or forever hold your peace, or man up and officially transfer the reigns to the board of directors.
Thank you.
Etblvu1

The "current" Dev team, has ended up coming down to one person doing actual code that was accepted by the rest of the team.  That one person has had a shit-ton of life issues outside of any kind of coin on the market.  That one person only has so much time in a day to do everything that has to be done.  The current dev team that doesn't have coding skills have spoken, and they will NOT accept the rogue-type of changes that have been proposed.  The latest rejected proposal was to "reject valid blocks because they came in before 9 minutes, and the rogue dev person even stated that the miner software SHOULD put a valid block 'in the future to be accepted', which opens up a HUGE time-warp exploit".  

There is still rewrite work being done for the difficulty re-target, but there is only so much time in the day that it can be done.

About the "Passing of the reigns", that never even got passed to the current dev team in the first place.  Mack25 has NEVER passed the channel rights, and even after he came in and asked if he should renew the domain name, and we said YES, he did NOT renew catcoins.org.  That site is now showing as "not registered" when you go to it.

Etblvu1, That more or less sounds like a threat, that the current team either shut up and let a takeover happen, or we transfer no matter what.  

If another dev team is going to step up and try to take over the coin, I just hope that the new dev team does it for the right reasons, and not just to line their own pockets.

Blak

Edit: Looking at some of the other pages, it looks like http://catchain.info/chain/Catcoin is also unregistered now too.