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Author Topic: [POLL] I'm Done!: Animal House 2  (Read 17472 times)
evolve
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September 18, 2011, 12:16:20 AM
 #81

lets see, we have a mlp fan/brony/whatever bashing a furry while spouting out religious nonsense.....

you never know whats gonna happen on this forum, but you can *bet* its gonna be weird.




someone pass the popcorn.... Smiley







 


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September 18, 2011, 12:40:14 AM
 #82

God does not punish anyone with hell, all you have to do is accept Jesus as your savior and your sins can be forgiven and he will take you into heaven.  Only those who consciously choose to reject this offer of unconditional love will experience damnation.  That free will is a gift, not a curse.

That's the other thing I don't get. What gives Jesus the right to forgive transgressions against others? If I hit you, I have hurt you, not Jesus. It's you I would need forgiveness from, not him. If a murderer killed my mother, asked Jesus for forgiveness instead of me, and Jesus forgave him, am I supposed to assume everything is ok now? If it was your parent or friend who was murdered, can I forgive the murderer in your place?
And why did god have to kill Jesus, anyway? Couldn't he just have just done all that without the showmanship and torture?

Jesus does not forgive on behalf of others.  

"And the King will say, 'I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were doing it to me!"

You are free to forgive or not, and human law is free to punish or not.  

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All furries should be executed imo

This type of attitude is quite disturbing, no matter how sinful the life Rassah has chosen he is free to make his own choices as long as he harms no one else in the process.  Confusing your personal morality/beliefs and the law is a recipe for disaster.

It's also quite disturbing to witness such a cavalier attitude towards death.  At a recent political debate one of my personal heroes, Dr. Ron Paul, was asked a question about healthcare and if someone who decided not to purchase care even they could afford it should be allowed to die.  He replied no, but several people in the crowd cheered "Yes!"

No one who wishes for the deaths of others because of personal mistakes they made should call themselves civilized.  And I certainly hope the people in the audience didn't think of themselves as Christian.  As a Libertarian I do believe in personal responsibility, but that means you find a way to get the care paid for on a long term plan or through charity, not that you let someone die in front of you.

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September 18, 2011, 01:29:34 AM
 #83

All furries should be executed imo

Hmmmm, yes... and the following con/party in hell will be the most excellent party in the history of the world. Even Satan will say "OMG, WTF?!... um pass the beer." Cheesy

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September 18, 2011, 02:18:38 AM
 #84

All furries should be executed imo

Living in denial really isn't good for your emotional health.
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September 18, 2011, 02:39:50 AM
 #85

lets see, we have a mlp fan/brony/whatever bashing a furry while spouting out religious nonsense.....

you never know whats gonna happen on this forum, but you can *bet* its gonna be weird.


someone pass the popcorn.... Smiley




I think Matthew's been quiet because he's now working on this:



Thanks to the recent discussion on religion.
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September 18, 2011, 03:11:48 AM
 #86

Why do the "anthropomorphic fox penises" get all the attention?  What about us cats?



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Say, I wonder when Bitcoin will become big with the furry crowd. 

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September 18, 2011, 04:05:53 AM
 #87

Why do the "anthropomorphic fox penises" get all the attention?  What about us cats?

Say, I wonder when Bitcoin will become big with the furry crowd.  

Yeah, I MUCH prefer felines to foxes, too. As for when? I'm hoping before the next giant convention next Summer (AnthroCon). A lot of furs seriously hate PayPal, because their TOS forbid using their service to sell pornography, and a lot of artists who have been selling comissions had their accounts frozen and their money taken (stolen) by PayPal. Considering that fandom is quick to adopt new technologies (SecondLife linden were accepted by some artists years ago, and I saw a lot of Square devices this year), I wouldn't be surprised to see some adoption within a year, and mass adoption within two. Though since a lot of furries are more left-leaning democrats, they likely won't go for it for the libertarian reasons so prominent on this forum. Though I did learn about it from Jay Naylor, and he's quite a self-described Objectivist.

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September 18, 2011, 04:20:31 AM
 #88

That's the other thing I don't get. What gives Jesus the right to forgive transgressions against others? If I hit you, I have hurt you, not Jesus. It's you I would need forgiveness from, not him. If a murderer killed my mother, asked Jesus for forgiveness instead of me, and Jesus forgave him, am I supposed to assume everything is ok now? If it was your parent or friend who was murdered, can I forgive the murderer in your place?
And why did god have to kill Jesus, anyway? Couldn't he just have just done all that without the showmanship and torture?

Jesus does not forgive on behalf of others.  

"And the King will say, 'I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were doing it to me!"

You are free to forgive or not, and human law is free to punish or not.  
But, if someone robs me, thus breaking one of the commandments, and I forgive them, but they they never ask god for forgiveness, won't they still be punished in hell? And if Jesus does not forgive on behalf of others, why do people ask him to forgive their sins? Plus, again, how can someone claiming universal love and infinite forgiveness, condemn someone to torture for all eternity? You really don't question things much, do you?
It always struck me as odd that the people who are so vocal about wanting to have personal freedoms, liberty, choice, and freedom from opression by tyrants or kings, are also the ones who are so ready to subjugate themselves to one specific tyranical king, and give up the greatest single freedom of all, that of thought. The tea party reenacting the sentiment of "Down with Kings!" while wanting the country to obey and worship their king, is almost as crazy as those peple with the "Keep your government hands off my Medicare" signs.


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All furries should be executed imo

It's also quite disturbing to witness such a cavalier attitude towards death.  At a recent political debate one of my personal heroes, Dr. Ron Paul, was asked a question about healthcare and if someone who decided not to purchase care even they could afford it should be allowed to die.  He replied no, but several people in the crowd cheered "Yes!"

The correct answer to that question should have been "If you want to help him, no one will stop you." Yes, I somewhat agree, if that person didn't have insurance, didn't have anyone to care about him, and was a waste of life (lazy, self-destructive, unproductive), then it would be better for him to die. If he was otherwise productive and capable, likely someone would have fronted the money to treat him in exchange for him working for them. Either way, if someone doesn't buy insurance, and dies as a result, it'll be a pretty good lesson for everyone else not to make the same mistake.

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September 18, 2011, 04:36:40 AM
 #89

But, if someone robs me, thus breaking one of the commandments, and I forgive them, but they they never ask god for forgiveness, won't they still be punished in hell?

When they rob you, they rob God.  They should ask forgiveness from both.  If they choose not accept him as their savior, they will spend eternity outside of his presence if they so choose.  The fire and brimstone imagery somewhat misses the point.  If you think God is not someone you want to associate with or who does not exist, you should have nothing to fear from hell.  All it is is the absence of his presence.

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It always struck me as odd that the people who are so vocal about wanting to have personal freedoms, liberty, choice, and freedom from opression by tyrants or kings, are also the ones who are so ready to subjugate themselves to one specific tyranical king, and give up the greatest single freedom of all, that of thought. The tea party reenacting the sentiment of "Down with Kings!" while wanting the country to obey and worship their king, is almost as crazy as those peple with the "Keep your government hands off my Medicare" signs.

Kings and governments don't ask for your dedication, they take from you by force.  God gives you free will.   For religious libertarians the two philosophies are not in conflict.  God grants us free will, our own systems of authority should do the absolute best to make sure they do the same.

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September 18, 2011, 05:10:11 AM
 #90

When they rob you, they rob God.  They should ask forgiveness from both.  If they choose not accept him as their savior, they will spend eternity outside of his presence if they so choose.  The fire and brimstone imagery somewhat misses the point.  If you think God is not someone you want to associate with or who does not exist, you should have nothing to fear from hell.  All it is is the absence of his presence.

Ah, excellent. So, atheist hell is essentially atheist reality, a world where god doesn't exist?
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It always struck me as odd that the people who are so vocal about wanting to have personal freedoms, liberty, choice, and freedom from opression by tyrants or kings, are also the ones who are so ready to subjugate themselves to one specific tyranical king, and give up the greatest single freedom of all, that of thought. The tea party reenacting the sentiment of "Down with Kings!" while wanting the country to obey and worship their king, is almost as crazy as those peple with the "Keep your government hands off my Medicare" signs.

Kings and governments don't ask for your dedication, they take from you by force.  God gives you free will.   For religious libertarians the two philosophies are not in conflict.  God grants us free will, our own systems of authority should do the absolute best to make sure they do the same.

But Christian religion does teach that those who "chose" to follow God's decree will be rewarded, and those who do not will be punished, does it not? So, although we may "chose" freely, we are still comanded to do as he wishes "or else." And how can it be free will if he knows what will happen? How can he settle all of humanity with original sin, when he created Satan, created the tree of life, and planted it right where Adam and Eve could easilly get to it, knowing full well what the outcome would be? It was rather snide of him to act surprised and angry about that, if the bible was true about that part. It also sounds as if you're rather liberal in your interpretation of the bible. Is it God's infaliable word, or just an set of ideas you are free to interpret how you wish?

BTW, little bit of background, it's my ex boyfriend who is mostly the reason I lost my faith. We fell in love, but his step father was a rather violent alcoholic homophobe, and EXTREMELY Christian to boot. He used quite a lot of biblical passages to argue his points and forced my bf and his mom to attend church with him, while in the evenings would often drink, yell, and beat up his mom, while all my bf could do was hide and cry while I kept him company over the phone or online. I still remember the many nights I stayed up late into the night consoling him. We were just small kids back then, and I couldn't understand how my pure, passionate, unconditional, and devoted love could supposedly be so hated and considered to be so sinfull by Him (btw, no, we were not having sex, and in the two years we were together at most we kissed. We were rather young still). Actually, that was sort of the thing that "broke the cammel's back" as it were, and made me turn against god. It resulted in me hating and rejecting him and what he stood for, befofe realizing there was nothing to hate. The things that started to make me question him in the first place were the previous years of similar stories with my friends and aquaintances, including things like a 14yo girl I was friends with who took her life because she couldn't deal with the stress of liking other girls, and being so rejected by her religious parents for it. There were way too many rather dark stories like these back then (though only one successful suicide that I know of). Somehow I ended up the person people would come to talk to, and heard these dark fucked up storries since i was 12 or so, having too many of my friends and aquaintances confide in me. This was also the reason why my initial career interest was psychiatry. I felt I was good at listening to people and helping them deal with their problems, wanted to help people with psychological pain, and is the reason I have so many psychology classes on my record (I switched to Business Finance later, and all those psych classes became just "electives").

tl;dr
 I still remember my very first question that started my "journey." It was "How can god, in his supposedly infinite power and compassion, let this happen to innocent children, and in his name no less?" My second question was "how can this love be sin?" It all starts with questions.

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September 18, 2011, 05:30:20 AM
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Ah, excellent. So, atheist hell is essentially atheist reality, a world where god doesn't exist?

The problem is that God does exist, so they do not truly understand what this concept truly entails.  They will still have a chance of salvation at their judgement though, I doubt many would make the choice to live without him.

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But Christian religion does teach that those who "chose" to follow God's decree will be rewarded, and those who do not will be punished, does it not?

I think I have explained the concept of hell at this point and the distinction between punishment and your own free will to decide to accept or reject salvation.  God does not punish anyone, you make the choice.

Quote
BTW, little bit of background, it's my ex boyfriend who is mostly the reason I lost my faith. We fell in love, but his step father was a rather violent alcoholic homophobe, and EXTREMELY Christian to boot. He used quite a lot of biblical passages to argue his points and forced my bf and his mom to attend church with him, while in the evenings would often drink, yell, and beat up his mom, while all my bf could do was hide and cry while I kept him company over the phone or online. I still remember the many nights I stayed up late into the night consoling him. We were just small kids back then, and I couldn't understand how my pure, passionate, unconditional, and devoted love could supposedly be so hated and considered to be so sinfull by Him (btw, no, we were not having sex, and in the two years we were together at most we kissed. We were rather young still). Actually, that was sort of the thing that "broke the cammel's back" as it were, and made me turn against god. It resulted in me hating and rejecting him and what he stood for, befofe realizing there was nothing to hate. The things that started to make me question him in the first place were the previous years of similar stories with my friends and aquaintances, including things like a 14yo girl I was friends with who took her life because she couldn't deal with the stress of liking other girls, and being so rejected by her religious parents for it. There were way too many rather dark stories like these back then (though only one successful suicide that I know of), and I've had too many of my young friends confide in me and cry on my shoulder. Somehow i ended up the person people would come to, and heard these dark fucked up storries since i was 12 or so. This was also the reason why my initial career interest was psychiatry. I felt I was good at listening to people and helping them deal with their problems, wanted to help people with psychological pain, and is the reason I have so many psychology classes on my record (I switched to Business Finance later, and all those psych classes became just "electives").
 I still remember my very first question that started my "journey." It was "How can god, in his supposedly infinite power and compassion, let this happen to innocent children, and in his name no less?" My second question was "how can this love be sin?" It all starts with questions.

You are confusing the actions of people with the actions of God.  God is about a celebration of life and love.  You should love everyone around you.  That doesn't mean you should give in to your perverted desires to use the gifts he has given you to create suffering and disease through homosexuality and pseudo-bestiality, but it certainly does not approve of a failure to protect children in your care either.   When I had my troubles my Dad didn't act with hate towards me, he helped me find God again so I could be straightened out.  Love and prayer are the solutions, not giving in to misguided carnal desires.  You can't answer one sin with another.

Free will defines what it means to be human, it condemns us all to a life of suffering in some ways but life would not be meaningful without it. 

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September 18, 2011, 05:49:04 AM
 #92

you never know whats gonna happen on this forum, but you can *bet* its gonna be weird.
someone pass the popcorn.... Smiley

I agree lol.

I think Matthew's been quiet because he's now working on this:

Thanks to the recent discussion on religion.
I'm actually surprised this is still going lol.
Wen't from bashing me, to furries to the Catholic Church and in that order.
I've actually been sitting here with a bag of popcorn and a bottle of Dr. Pepper watching everything unfold, and it's been quite amusing.
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September 18, 2011, 06:07:20 AM
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Ah, excellent. So, atheist hell is essentially atheist reality, a world where god doesn't exist?

The problem is that God does exist, so they do not truly understand what this concept truly entails.  They will still have a chance of salvation at their judgement though, I doubt many would make the choice to live without him.
Well, ignorance is bliss as they say. I doubt any atheist will be able to force themselves to believe, if god does't show himself, since believing in god at that point is about as likely as it is for a Christian to make themselves believe in Santa Claus or Thor. And if he does show himself to be real at that point, I will definitely have some choice words for him, and yes, will chose to live without him.

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But Christian religion does teach that those who "chose" to follow God's decree will be rewarded, and those who do not will be punished, does it not?

I think I have explained the concept of hell at this point and the distinction between punishment and your own free will to decide to accept or reject salvation.  God does not punish anyone, you make the choice.

What is the choice exactly? I chose to spend eternity in torture and damnation, because I chose not to accept or not to believe in him? A choice where I know my actions will result in either punishment or reward is not really a choice. More importantly, being subjected to a punishment or a reward by someone else for what they believe is right is not exactly freedom, either. Also, why is your version of hell the correct one? It's certainly not the one most Christian religions and preachers espouse.

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You are confusing the actions of people with the actions of God.  God is about a celebration of life and love.  You should love everyone around you.  

To me, his action through inaction is monstrous. A loving omnipotent being who is claming to celebrate life and love should not be able to sit idly by and allow such things to happen, unless that being didn't care, or worse. And if god IS just sitting there and allowing lives to be destroyed, especially lives of innocent children, and especially in his name, then his love is just empty words. Meaningless. I would go so far as to say that I know how to love better, and have higher morals, than god, since I would never sit idly by when I know I can help someone in extreme pain.

Quote
That doesn't mean you should give in to your perverted desires
This here tells me that you have never truly been in love. Sadly, a lot of younger anti-gay Christians have never fallen in love, so any attempt to explain to them about it being just falling in love is fruitless Sad It's especially ironic when they keep proclaiming pure love for Jesus. You don't have perverted desires towards Jesus, do you?

Quote
to use the gifts he has given you to create suffering and disease through homosexuality and pseudo-bestiality,

And this part is sadly just misguided bs. Whoever told you this in those words has lied. Homosexuality doesn't cause disease. Promiscuous unprotected sex, with any gender, does. Committed monogamous relationships, even same sex ones, do not magically make diseases appear out of nowhere. Also, pseudo-bestiality... isn't that just wanking to furry porn? Not sure how masturbation can cause diseases, either.

Quote
When I had my troubles my Dad didn't act with hate towards me, he helped me find God again so I could be straightened out.
One doesn't need hate to do harm due to lack of understanding or negligence. What WAS your trouble, anyway? Were you losing faith, or were you starting to get interest in a female friend of yours? For some reason you don't really strike me as a lesbian or bi. If it was something between you and your friend though, honestly, I feel most sorry for your friend.

Quote
Love and prayer are the solutions, not giving in to misguided carnal desires.  You can't answer one sin with another.

Eventually, you may live long enough to realize that prayers are never answered. They never helped me when I asked for help, and they never helped my friends when I prayed so hard for them. They didn't save that girl, either. Delusions help, maybe. Hard work helps. Rarely dumb luck helps. Millions of people pray for the same things for decades with no result. Like for same-sex marriage to go away. I don't think god was ever listening.
And, as I said earlier, I did not give into carnal desires. I gave into loving someone totally and unconditionally, wishing to devote myself to them and spend my life with them. There were no carnal feelings involved, and it's rather sad that you associate love with sex and carnal feelings like that. That almost suggests to me that somewhere along the path of your life your view of love was rather badly broken. Badly hurt by a boy? abused by your parents (even if psychologically)? brainwashed into fearing physical contact maybe?... I don't know. You're not the first person with this problem I've come across, either, and it seems strangely comon among girls. Sorry...

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September 18, 2011, 06:10:07 AM
 #94

Wen't from bashing me, to furries to the Catholic Church and in that order.
I've actually been sitting here with a bag of popcorn and a bottle of Dr. Pepper watching everything unfold, and it's been quite amusing.

To be fair, I wasn't bashing your furiness, and if it seemed like it, I'm sorry. It's also pretty much impossible to bash me. So, no furries have been bashed  Wink

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September 18, 2011, 07:02:18 AM
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What is the choice exactly? I chose to spend eternity in torture and damnation, because I chose not to accept or not to believe in him?

It sounds to me like you are creating your own definition of a life without the presence of God, not one that I have given you.

Quote
To me, his action through inaction is monstrous. A loving omnipotent being who is claming to celebrate life and love should not be able to sit idly by and allow such things to happen, unless that being didn't care, or worse. And if god IS just sitting there and allowing lives to be destroyed, especially lives of innocent children, and especially in his name, then his love is just empty words. Meaningless. I would go so far as to say that I know how to love better, and have higher morals, than god, since I would never sit idly by when I know I can help someone in extreme pain.

God never turns away from suffering, he offers comfort to those who pray to him and eternal salvation to those who wish it.  

Quote
One doesn't need hate to do harm due to lack of understanding or negligence. What WAS your trouble, anyway? Were you losing faith, or were you starting to get interest in a female friend of yours? For some reason you don't really strike me as a lesbian or bi. If it was something between you and your friend though, honestly, I feel most sorry for your friend.

A girl who I thought was a friend took advantage of me and deceived me into doing something I knew later I didn't truly want to do.  I didn't quite realize it at the time, I hope someday you come back into the light as well.

Quote
Eventually, you may live long enough to realize that prayers are never answered.

My prayers already were, at some point though you need to take responsibility for your own actions.  God doesn't always send a lightning bolt to save you, you have to trust in his love and guidance to show you the way.

Quote
And, as I said earlier, I did not give into carnal desires. I gave into loving someone totally and unconditionally, wishing to devote myself to them and spend my life with them. There were no carnal feelings involved, and it's rather sad that you associate love with sex and carnal feelings like that. That almost suggests to me that somewhere along the path of your life your view of love was rather badly broken. Badly hurt by a boy? abused by your parents (even if psychologically)? brainwashed into fearing physical contact maybe?... I don't know. You're not the first person with this problem I've come across, either, and it seems strangely comon among girls. Sorry...

If you are not having homosexual sexual relations or giving in to your anthropomorphic pseudo-bestiality urges, you are simply expressing the love we should have for every fellow person, but I don't believe that is the case.  Is it?

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September 18, 2011, 08:55:52 AM
 #96

you never know whats gonna happen on this forum, but you can *bet* its gonna be weird.
someone pass the popcorn.... Smiley

I agree lol.

I think Matthew's been quiet because he's now working on this:

Thanks to the recent discussion on religion.
I'm actually surprised this is still going lol.
Wen't from bashing me, to furries to the Catholic Church and in that order.
I've actually been sitting here with a bag of popcorn and a bottle of Dr. Pepper watching everything unfold, and it's been quite amusing.

Amen, brother! Amen!
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September 18, 2011, 01:56:58 PM
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So a guy who thinks he's a pony, and a guy who thinks he's a cat, are trying to cheer up/bash a guy who thinks hes a fox.

With me so far?

Okay, but the guy who thinks he's a pony also believes in a god.  The guy who thinks he's a cat finds that absurd.  They've forgotton about the guy who thinks he's a fox.

So then the guy who thinks he's a cat starts bashing the establishment of the god in whom the guy who thinks he's a pony believes.  The guy who thinks hes a pony doesn't take kindly to the guy who thinks he's a cat poking fun at his beliefs.

The fox eats popcorn.

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September 18, 2011, 02:31:33 PM
 #98

So a guy who thinks he's a pony, and a guy who thinks he's a cat, are trying to cheer up/bash a guy who thinks hes a fox.

With me so far?

Okay, but the guy who thinks he's a pony also believes in a god.  The guy who thinks he's a cat finds that absurd.  They've forgotton about the guy who thinks he's a fox.

So then the guy who thinks he's a cat starts bashing the establishment of the god in whom the guy who thinks he's a pony believes.  The guy who thinks hes a pony doesn't take kindly to the guy who thinks he's a cat poking fun at his beliefs.

The fox eats popcorn.
You missed that the pony claims to be a seventeen year old girl which would mean she lacks the life experience to pass such judgments on others

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September 18, 2011, 02:34:35 PM
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So a guy who thinks he's a pony, and a guy who thinks he's a cat, are trying to cheer up/bash a guy who thinks hes a fox. With me so far?
Okay, but the guy who thinks he's a pony also believes in a god.  The guy who thinks he's a cat finds that absurd.  They've forgotton about the guy who thinks he's a fox.
So then the guy who thinks he's a cat starts bashing the establishment of the god in whom the guy who thinks he's a pony believes.  The guy who thinks hes a pony doesn't take kindly to the guy who thinks he's a cat poking fun at his beliefs.
The fox eats popcorn.

Yup lol, and for the record i'm non-denominational Christian.


To be fair, I wasn't bashing your furiness, and if it seemed like it, I'm sorry. It's also pretty much impossible to bash me. So, no furries have been bashed  Wink
No, no you weren't. If you received it as that, I am sorry as well.
dayfall
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September 18, 2011, 04:39:04 PM
 #100

The problem is that God does exist, 

The problem is Yahweh doesn't exist. 
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