Do we realy need NXT / Ripple ?

[crocko]

Bitcoin may not be perfect but it's good enough. Period.

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[BazkieBumpercar]

100% premined- and corporate-owned coins are a step back towards oldskool fiat. And we wanted to get away from that in the first place, because of disadvantages like that, didn't we?

So yeah - something may replace Bitcoin at some point, but it sure as hell won't be Ripple or NXT.

[ervalvola]

Bitcoin may not be perfect but it's good enough. Period.

I really don't know so much about NXT (i will when i'll have time) but the purpose of ripple isn't to replace bitcoins but rather to complement it.

Right now you can buy bitcoins throught ripple with so many gateways, some of them let you to use credit card (it was peercover.com, don't know if that feature is still alive), other have various physical locations (more than 20000 in the US, just google ripple-zipzap)... and we're just at the beginning. Ripple is a great opportunity to make bitcoin ubiquitous.
You can pay in bitcoin independently from the currency chosen by merchants, because of the p2p integrated currency-market. You send BTC, merchants receive pesetas
Transaction are offchain and very cheap and so on...

XRP have other purposes, I just don't see any competition between bitcoins and ripples.

[anth0ny]

XRP have other purposes, I just don't see any competition between bitcoins and ripples.

If everyone accepted payments through Ripple, what would be the point of Bitcoin? I guess it'd still be an investment asset, but if all I want is an investment asset there are a lot less risky options than Bitcoin.

If it were easy for everyone to exchange BTC with their local currencies, what would be the point of Ripple? Buy BTC with my currency, transfer the BTC to the seller, let the seller sell the BTC for her currency.

I don't know what the purpose of Ripple was, but the two definitely compete with one another.

[Voluntold]

The differences between Ripple and Nxt are huge. First off, Premined does not = scam. Ripple is centralized, and I don't believe it is open source. Nxt's main complaint seems to be about the initial distribution, which so far is better than bitcoin, so I don't see where people can be complaining there. Look, you can either put 10k-20k in mining equipment and try to get rich, or put 10k-20k in a stake in Nxt and try and get rich. Personally, I think Nxt has HUGE potential. I think the people that are butthurt about Nxt, are mostly the people that already have thousands of dollars worth of mining equipment, and are now upset to see that you can support the NXT network on a solar powered Raspberry Pi...

[Wipeout2097]

Hold on a second...

So, you Nxt'ers and others are not competing with fiat or with Paypal? You want to actually beat/replace Bitcoin?

[ervalvola]

If everyone accepted payments through Ripple, what would be the point of Bitcoin? I guess it'd still be an investment asset, but if all I want is an investment asset there are a lot less risky options than Bitcoin.

No, i believe that, supposed the "freedom of choice", the principle that make me choose a currency or another could be of various kind.
For sure bitcoin have an "ideological backing" that XRP miss. You can mine bitcoin and you can't mine ripple; the vision is completely different but inside ripple sending bitcoins is as simple as sending XRP.

XRP are needed to link different gateways and as anti-spam measure. They are a speculative asset thought for businesses and market-makers, I believe.

If it were easy for everyone to exchange BTC with their local currencies, what would be the point of Ripple?

Ripple actually makes easier to exchange bitcoins with local currencies, that's its point ; )
Really, I believe that much of the hate for ripple will blow up when people will see its usefulness; the federate payment system is very powerfull. Right now you can open a gateway and if you are good at market making you consumers can buy with their currency in everyshop accepting bitcoins and ripple.

Actually you can buy everything with PPC XPM NMC LTC NXT and even with DOGECOIN; thx to ripple

[Come-from-Beyond]

Bitcoin may not be perfect but it's good enough. Period.

I see u r not an open-minded person...

[anth0ny]

Ripple actually makes easier to exchange bitcoins with local currencies, that's its point ; )

As far as I can tell it doesn't do that.

I want to buy a BTC with US dollars. How does Ripple make it easier for me to do that?

Ultimately I have to send my US dollars to someone I trust. OK, so I send it to Coinbase and buy my BTC.

Again, how does Ripple make things any easier?

[anth0ny]

Actually you can buy everything with PPC XPM NMC LTC NXT and even with DOGECOIN; thx to ripple

Who cares? No one accepts PPC XPM NMC LTC NXT or DOGECOIN.

Besides, I don't need Ripple to exchange BTC for some coin-no-one-cares-about. I can do that on BTC-E.

The only part that's somewhat of a hassle is exchanging USD with BTC. But with Ripple the hassle is finding someone who will extend trust to me in USD, and that's harder than finding someone to exchange USD/BTC.

[ervalvola]

Actually you can buy everything with PPC XPM NMC LTC NXT and even with DOGECOIN; thx to ripple

Who cares? No one accepts PPC XPM NMC LTC NXT or DOGECOIN.

No one needs to accept DOGE.
You send DOGE - the merchants receive USD (or Bitcoin, or swensencoin or cipstercoin or whatever).

Rly you should try ripple, is a nice software.

The only part that's somewhat of a hassle is exchanging USD with BTC. But with Ripple the hassle is finding someone who will extend trust to me in USD.

NO no, no1 needs to trust you
Trust is needed only for gateways ; )
NEVER give trust to individual unless you are a very expert of the system!

[anth0ny]

Actually you can buy everything with PPC XPM NMC LTC NXT and even with DOGECOIN; thx to ripple

Who cares? No one accepts PPC XPM NMC LTC NXT or DOGECOIN.

No one needs to accept DOGE.
You send DOGE - the merchants receive USD (or Bitcoin, or swensencoin or cipstercoin or whatever).

Rly you should try ripple, is a nice software.

I have tried it. Got nowhere and accomplished nothing.

The only part that's somewhat of a hassle is exchanging USD with BTC. But with Ripple the hassle is finding someone who will extend trust to me in USD.

NO no, no1 needs to trust you
Trust is needed only for gateways ; )
NEVER give trust to individual unless you are a very expert of the system!

I don't know what the stupid terminology is. All I know is that it was a lot easier to spend BTC than it is to use Ripple. I didn't have to send a money order to someone I didn't know. I didn't have to meet with anyone in a dark alleyway. I gave my bank information to Coinbase and they hooked me up with BTC.

[pinarello]

Bitcoin may not be perfect but it's good enough. Period.

 

Op what is your agenda?

[pinarello]

Hold on a second...

So, you Nxt'ers and others are not competing with fiat or with Paypal? You want to actually beat/replace Bitcoin?

Yes nothing less. period.

[instacalm]

The differences between Ripple and Nxt are huge. First off, Premined does not = scam. Ripple is centralized, and I don't believe it is open source. Nxt's main complaint seems to be about the initial distribution, which so far is better than bitcoin, so I don't see where people can be complaining there. Look, you can either put 10k-20k in mining equipment and try to get rich, or put 10k-20k in a stake in Nxt and try and get rich. Personally, I think Nxt has HUGE potential. I think the people that are butthurt about Nxt, are mostly the people that already have thousands of dollars worth of mining equipment, and are now upset to see that you can support the NXT network on a solar powered Raspberry Pi...

Good post -- I can only add that a lot of individuals who happen to be mad about NXT (or Ripple) unfortunately fail to understand both. They babble "scam" but do not grasp the concept of PoS or in the case of Ripple, its nature of a p2p payment network.

[ervalvola]

Ripple actually makes easier to exchange bitcoins with local currencies, that's its point ; )

As far as I can tell it doesn't do that.

I want to buy a BTC with US dollars. How does Ripple make it easier for me to do that?

Ultimately I have to send my US dollars to someone I trust. OK, so I send it to Coinbase and buy my BTC.

Again, how does Ripple make things any easier?

It does! ; )
Let's imagine that, for example, coinbase act as a ripple gateway. YOu could send USD to coinbase and buy bitcoins from Bitstamp, RippleChina, TheRockTrading, or wherever you want, if the price are lower or it's easier to cash out.
Actually you can send USD to SnapSwap (or deposit locally through ZipZap locations) and buy bitcoins from bitstamp inside the ripple wallet.
It federates the various money-transmitting business; could be very disruptive.


Btw, I'm not so crazy about ripple, it's just a good software which, I believe, could be very usefull.

[anth0ny]

Ripple actually makes easier to exchange bitcoins with local currencies, that's its point ; )

As far as I can tell it doesn't do that.

I want to buy a BTC with US dollars. How does Ripple make it easier for me to do that?

Ultimately I have to send my US dollars to someone I trust. OK, so I send it to Coinbase and buy my BTC.

Again, how does Ripple make things any easier?

It does! ; )
Let's imagine that, for example, coinbase act as a ripple gateway.

No. I don't want to use my imagination. How does Ripple actually make things any easier?

Coinbase doesn't "act as a ripple gateway", and I see no reason to believe they ever will.

YOu could send USD to coinbase and buy bitcoins from Bitstamp, RippleChina, TheRockTrading, or wherever you want, if the price are lower or it's easier to cash out.
Actually you can send USD to SnapSwap (or deposit locally through ZipZap locations) and buy bitcoins from bitstamp inside the ripple wallet.

If I trusted Bitstamp or RippleChina or TheRockTrading or wherever then I'd just go with them directly.

I trust Coinbase. So I send my USD to Coinbase. And I get my BTC.

Ripple doesn't make that any easier.

(By the way, why in the world would Coinbase facilitate buying your BTC from some other company at a lower price?)

[ervalvola]

Ripple is young. You couldn't buy anything in the first year with BTC.

Btw, if you don't like ripple, nobody is forcing you to use, lol

[anth0ny]

Ripple is young. You couldn't buy anything in the first year with BTC.

Yeah, but the potential was there, at least.

Btw, if you don't like ripple, nobody is forcing you to use, lol

I'm not sure how anyone would force me to use it since I'm unable to use it!

Yes, I guess I don't like Ripple. But what I really don't like is when people try to say that Ripple isn't competitive with Bitcoin.

"Bitcoin may not be perfect but it's good enough." Damn straight. I hope the vast majority of us can focus on getting Bitcoin accepted everywhere rather than wasting time with also-rans like Ripple.

[ervalvola]

Yes, I guess I don't like Ripple. But what I really don't like is when people try to say that Ripple isn't competitive with Bitcoin.

It's the truth however...
actually ripple helps bitcoin...

[anth0ny]

Yes, I guess I don't like Ripple. But what I really don't like is when people try to say that Ripple isn't competitive with Bitcoin.

It's the truth however...
actually ripple helps bitcoin...

That's the line. But I've already explained how it's nonsense.

If Ripple becomes ubiquitous, you don't need Bitcoin. If Bitcoin becomes ubiquitous, you don't need Ripple. Both want to be ubiquitous.

That's competition.

[ervalvola]

Btw, if you don't like ripple, nobody is forcing you to use, lol

I'm not sure how anyone would force me to use it since I'm unable to use it!

This doesn't make you honor  

[escrow.ms]

Bitcoin is a masterpiece and first decentralized crypto currency.  So frankly it doesn't matters if people are launching alternative coins now. They can't replace bitcoin.  
We have found so many shiny stones till now but hey diamond is still there..

As for nxt and other coins.. We actually need them.. To attract more people.. to spread knowledge about cryptocurencies..To get better ideas and to find solutions for the flaws in our current crypto currencies..

who knows maybe satoshi might come back in some years and release Bitcoin 2.0

[anth0ny]

Btw, if you don't like ripple, nobody is forcing you to use, lol

I'm not sure how anyone would force me to use it since I'm unable to use it!

This doesn't make you honor  

Huh?

[ervalvola]

Bitcoin is a masterpiece and first decentralized crypto currency.  So frankly it doesn't matters if people are launching alternative coins now. They can't replace bitcoin.  
We have found so many shiny stones till now but hey diamond is still there..

As for nxt and other coins.. We actually need them.. To attract more people.. to spread knowledge about cryptocurencies..To get better ideas and to find solutions for the flaws in our current crypto currencies..

who knows maybe satoshi might come back in some years and release Bitcoin 2.0

much quote!

[ervalvola]

Btw, if you don't like ripple, nobody is forcing you to use, lol

I'm not sure how anyone would force me to use it since I'm unable to use it!

This doesn't make you honor  

Huh?

It was a joke mate, never mind!

[Come-from-Beyond]

who knows maybe satoshi might come back in some years and release Bitcoin 2.0

He already did. And called it "Nxt".

[Wipeout2097]

Hold on a second...

So, you Nxt'ers and others are not competing with fiat or with Paypal? You want to actually beat/replace Bitcoin?

Yes nothing less. period.

Yet you shit pumpers need BITCOINtalk.org to "market" it!  

Good luck, I guess...

[anth0ny]

Bitcoin is a masterpiece and first decentralized crypto currency.  So frankly it doesn't matters if people are launching alternative coins now. They can't replace bitcoin.  
We have found so many shiny stones till now but hey diamond is still there..

As for nxt and other coins.. We actually need them.. To attract more people.. to spread knowledge about cryptocurencies..To get better ideas and to find solutions for the flaws in our current crypto currencies..

who knows maybe satoshi might come back in some years and release Bitcoin 2.0

For most of the alt-coins I agree with this.

For Ripple I think there's a danger that this inferior solution could win. And the name of that danger is Google Ventures.

The fact that the Ripple pumpers keep trying to embrace and extend Bitcoin is especially worrisome.

[anth0ny]

Btw, if you don't like ripple, nobody is forcing you to use, lol

I'm not sure how anyone would force me to use it since I'm unable to use it!

This doesn't make you honor  

Huh?

It was a joke mate, never mind!

Can you (or someone else) translate?

[escrow.ms]

who knows maybe satoshi might come back in some years and release Bitcoin 2.0

He already did. And called it "Nxt".

Then why it has Java and .Net dependencies.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Then why it has Java and .Net dependencies.

Good point. Real Satoshi would use Assembler.

[timmyd]

We deff need NXT for when btc becomes regulated and centralized

[Wipeout2097]

We deff need NXT for when btc becomes regulated and centralized

We need alts for when btc becomes regulated and centralized. We don't need an IPO'ed shitcoin to replace it

[Isildur23]

Average Joe is asking "Do we need BTC? FIAT are not perfekt but they work fine..."
People who like the technology and are openminded will accept it first. Speculators will keep trying all forms of black marketing and keep on with their prejudices until they completely miss the train...

[Eadeqa]

who knows maybe satoshi might come back in some years and release Bitcoin 2.0

He already did. And called it "Nxt".

Then why it has Java and .Net dependencies.

What .Net dependencies?

Java is open source (GPL licence) platform.

[wakasaki808]

The average person is saying the exact same thing with regards to BTC. Go around the streets and ask people. There are a lot of people that just feel its a fad that will die. They don't see the value in Bitcoin because of it being a digital currency. Some of my friends all feel why should they use it when Credit cards/Paypal work just as well, if not better, other than it being centralized. If one doesn't care about that then yeah...

The people I talk to like it as a commodity (aka Gold equiv.) but not as the equiv of the USD, Euro, etc. They like the potential rise of their investment more than anything.

[Wipeout2097]

The average person is saying the exact same thing with regards to BTC. Go around the streets and ask people. There are a lot of people that just feel its a fad that will die. They don't see the value in Bitcoin because of it being a digital currency. Some of my friends all feel why should they use it when Credit cards work just as well other than it being centralized. If one doesn't care about that then yeah...

Considering that even Bitcoin has struggled for years, how the hell do you expect that yet another obscure altcoin (in hundreds now), like Nxt to get some traction, huh?

[wakasaki808]

The average person is saying the exact same thing with regards to BTC. Go around the streets and ask people. There are a lot of people that just feel its a fad that will die. They don't see the value in Bitcoin because of it being a digital currency. Some of my friends all feel why should they use it when Credit cards work just as well other than it being centralized. If one doesn't care about that then yeah...

Considering that even Bitcoin has struggled for years, how the hell do you expect that yet another obscure altcoin (in hundreds now), like Nxt to get some traction, huh?

Bitcoin struggled for years because it was new. NXT and others are followups and as more people become interested in what are Cryptos more investments will start to come in. I joined last November because of all the media coming out about it from which I started to become interested after a few years of investing into stocks.

Who knows we may be seeing the day of Bitcoin and the like become the digital versions of Gold and such.

Competition is always good to drive the market forward. Its never good to stand still.

[Eadeqa]

The average person is saying the exact same thing with regards to BTC. Go around the streets and ask people. There are a lot of people that just feel its a fad that will die. They don't see the value in Bitcoin because of it being a digital currency. Some of my friends all feel why should they use it when Credit cards work just as well other than it being centralized. If one doesn't care about that then yeah...

Considering that even Bitcoin has struggled for years, how the hell do you expect that yet another obscure altcoin (in hundreds now), like Nxt to get some traction, huh?

Nxt did pretty well in 1 month since "official" launch.  It will get some traction by offering new features (faster transactions, messages, aliases, decentralized asset exchanges/market place, etc).

[Alphi]

Really, I believe that much of the hate for ripple will blow up when people will see its usefulness; the federate payment system is very powerfull. Right now you can open a gateway and if you are good at market making you consumers can buy with their currency in everyshop accepting bitcoins and ripple.

Actually you can buy everything with PPC XPM NMC LTC NXT and even with DOGECOIN; thx to ripple

if ripple is centralized and many bad actors get involved and start money laundering.. what is to stop the US govt from shutting it down like they did with liberty reserve?

same goes for NXT... if the US govt decides to shut it down by locking up the 71 original investors then what happens?

with bitcoin yes ofcourse any government could hunt down the people with the most coins.. but even if you took 90% of the coins out of circulation there are still enough coins in place to support the infrastructure that has been built around BTC.. so the system keeps working.

from what I can see NXT on the other hand does not have the infrastructure in place.. it relies mostly on being exchanged into LTC and BTC.

(this is the problem with most other altcoins too btw)

this is why the widest possible initial distribution is so very very important,

any kind of concentration is bad for ANY crypto coin.. even BTC.

[crocko]

LOL 

NXT :: descendat of Bitcoin   [ https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.0 ]

NEM :: Descendant of Nxt    [ https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=440185.0 ]

[Eadeqa]

same goes for NXT... if the US govt decides to shut it down by locking up the 71 original investors then what happens?

How would  the US govt find those 71 "investors"? It's not as if they are sitting in one office in New york. It was open invitation here on bitcointalk.org and everyone was free to join.  They might be in different countries.  

Besides, those 71 accounts have been selling/distributing their shares. The number of accounts are now over 20,000. That number will keep growing at very fast rate.

Nxt is decentralized

[ilccoin]

we might need altcoins but not those two

[Come-from-Beyond]

we might need altcoins but not those two

Looks like u registered just to post ur competent opinion. 

[Alphi]

How would  the US govt find those 71 "investors"? It's not as if they are sitting in one office in New york. It was open invitation here on bitcointalk.org and everyone was free to join.  They might be in different countries.  

Besides, those 71 accounts have been selling/distributing their shares. The number of accounts are now over 20,000. That number will keep growing at very fast rate.

Nxt is decentralized

thank you you just made my point for me.

bitcointalk has been hacked so many times.. you think the NSA dont know who is who on here?

just as an example for you... many many users of the silk road.. YES people using TOR encryption and Mixers to hide their tracks.. have been arrested and many more to come.

this is only hypothetical but IF the major players in an Alt coin such as NXT were found to be money laundering OR facilitating a Ponzi scheme then you can bet that US govt agencies would go after them.. and find most of them.


people assume too easily that Pseudonyms protect them.. they don't.

as I already stated I'm not alleging that NXT IS doing anything wrong.. just saying that it could easily be torn apart if bad actors were found to be involved in its creation. same goes for any coin that has any kind of concentration of power (in any form) and does not have the broader infrastructure in place..

[Come-from-Beyond]

bitcointalk has been hacked so many times.. you think the NSA dont know who is who on here?

USA can't get even Snowden...

[Alphi]

bitcointalk has been hacked so many times.. you think the NSA dont know who is who on here?

USA can't get even Snowden...

knowledge is power... you think snowden escaped on his own? he is being protected by very very powerful players.... are you? am I? I doubt it.

[Come-from-Beyond]

bitcointalk has been hacked so many times.. you think the NSA dont know who is who on here?

USA can't get even Snowden...

knowledge is power... you think snowden escaped on his own? he is being protected by very very powerful players.... are you? am I? I doubt it.

I'm protected by the power of a country that will use every opportunity to show that it f*cks the USA.  

[Eadeqa]

How would  the US govt find those 71 "investors"? It's not as if they are sitting in one office in New york. It was open invitation here on bitcointalk.org and everyone was free to join.  They might be in different countries.  

Besides, those 71 accounts have been selling/distributing their shares. The number of accounts are now over 20,000. That number will keep growing at very fast rate.

Nxt is decentralized

thank you you just made my point for me.

bitcointalk has been hacked so many times.. you think the NSA dont know who is who on here?

just as an example for you... many many users of the silk road.. YES people using TOR encryption and Mixers to hide their tracks.. have been arrested and many more to come.

Silkroad was one guy (or a group of guys) running a website on Tor network. He got caught by his own stupidity by leaking his personal info.  When/if Nxt is distributed widely, let's say 100,000 accounts in various countries. How on earth would the US be hunting random 100,000 people in the world? You are talking nonsense. SIlk road wasn't decentralized. It was one site run by one person.  

[crocko]

we might need altcoins but not those two

+1

Bitcoin as a currency will survive because they're actually rewarding miners to keep the thing up.  Even if Bitcoin lost 50% of it's value overnight somehow, a year from now it will still be around, and probably more valuable than it is currently.  If a coin like NXT lost 50% of it's value in a flash crash (which probably will happen due to horrendous distribution), you would probably never see the coin again after a week.

[Come-from-Beyond]

we might need altcoins but not those two

+1

Bitcoin as a currency will survive because they're actually rewarding miners to keep the thing up.  Even if Bitcoin lost 50% of it's value overnight somehow, a year from now it will still be around, and probably more valuable than it is currently.  If a coin like NXT lost 50% of it's value in a flash crash (which probably will happen due to horrendous distribution), you would probably never see the coin again after a week.

Sorry for cross-post but still...

I heard a Bitcoin mining virus is on round, that once installed in your machine, doing no harm, except taking your CPU power to mine for others. - True ?

Not 100% true. It attacks brain of people and makes them to mine proof-of-work currencies. It's easily detectable though, just ask opinion of these people about any proof-of-stake coin. Asking about Nxt, which is 100% PoS, gives the best level of detection.

[startselect]

Bitcoin is not good enough because it's so slow. How frustrating is it to need to buy lets say NXT when the price is low, when time is crucial and then having to wait and wait.

Also, OPs comment is so closed minded. I can't imagine him coming up with an innovative concept. 

[extee]

we might need altcoins but not those two

+1

Bitcoin as a currency will survive because they're actually rewarding miners to keep the thing up.  Even if Bitcoin lost 50% of it's value overnight somehow, a year from now it will still be around, and probably more valuable than it is currently.  If a coin like NXT lost 50% of it's value in a flash crash (which probably will happen due to horrendous distribution), you would probably never see the coin again after a week.

NXt has crashed and lost more than half of its value overnight at least two times...and it survives and infact gets stronger as the coin gets wider distributed .
by the way your OP is like saying "myspsace is good enough we don't need innovation".....and myspace was used by 60 million ppl at some point. and look where it is now.
in technology it is all about innovation. nxt is one of the only few coins around which actually innovates  and you discredit it .
and the fact that you refer as mining as bitcoin's biggest strength just shows how clueless you are.......if you spent any time in the development/technical forums you'll see that mining is the n.1 problem and n.1 threat to the bitcoin ecosystem. mining at the present moment is not  decentralized....and there doesn't seem a solution for this. bounties for true p2p mining are just ending in dead holes.
the expensive and wasteful infrastructure that currently holds bitcoin up cannot afford to see the value plummet...if that happens it would be a disaster of epic proportions and people would jump ship.
not sure if that ship would be Nxt....but sure as hell would not be another miners coin to end up down the same dead end road.

[DeadlyEskimo]

All alts benifit BTC by brining money to the crypto world. So do we need them? Yes, to think that BTC is the final product in a new industry your blind. PERIOD.

[Alphi]

When/if Nxt is distributed widely, let's say 100,000 accounts in various countries. How on earth would the US be hunting random 100,000 people in the world? You are talking nonsense. SIlk road wasn't decentralized. It was one site run by one person.  

that's the point, as I understand it the addresses with the most NXT are the ones who get the most newly created NXT coins so there is no incentive for Nxt to be distributed widely.

Nxt addresses work like gravity.. the bigger they are the more coins they attract from the mining process.
this process alone tends towards centralization of the currency into a few large addresses over time.

authorities OR criminals from any persuasion do not need to go after 100,000 people they just need to target the top addresses. once they control the largest addresses the majority of newly mined coins naturally flow to them.. they don't even have to work to get more coins..

if I understand how NXT works correctly this IS a fundamental flaw.
it is much more dangerous than a %51 attack which can only allow attackers to spend 1 or 2 blocks worth of coins before the miners start rejecting the transactions.

if you look a the bitcoin richlist for example... address with the most BTC was actually seized from the Silk Road.

(if this site is correct)
http://bitcoinrichlist.com/top100

now in BTC world that doesn't matter because those coins are taken out of circulation and the owner of that address, the biggest miners and the most powerful devs are NOT the same people. so the miners keep mining and the devs keep on working new coins get created and spread around.

if that situation were to occur in NXT land.... then that seized address would simply keep growing because by virtue of it being locked nobody can spend the coins.
ask yourself this.. who is going to mine or buy NXT if most of the new coins will go to the FBI for example...

please correct me if my understanding of the underlying NXT model is incorrect but to me that seems to be how it works.

[ewhenn]

We need alts, but NXT isn't it.

Things I know about NXT:
1) It's 100% PoS.  Basically the rewards from the mining process only go to those that hold it.   IE. the rich get richer and the poor get squat.  
2) Since the reward is based on holding it you are deterred form spending it as not only do you exchange it out now, you also lose future earnings.  
3) Combine that with the fact it's 100% pre-mine.. and just LOL!  Shit, I think I'm going to open up my monopoly game, stick my face on the bills, then say "I'll only give more to the people that buy now" and sell them for $1000 USD each. lol. Any "investors" out there?

NXT = trash.

[relm9]

When/if Nxt is distributed widely, let's say 100,000 accounts in various countries. How on earth would the US be hunting random 100,000 people in the world? You are talking nonsense. SIlk road wasn't decentralized. It was one site run by one person.  

that's the point, as I understand it the addresses with the most NXT are the ones who get the most newly created NXT coins so there is no incentive for Nxt to be distributed widely.

Nxt addresses work like gravity.. the bigger they are the more coins they attract from the mining process.
this process alone tends towards centralization of the currency into a few large addresses over time.

authorities OR criminals from any persuasion do not need to go after 100,000 people they just need to target the top addresses. once they control the largest addresses the majority of newly mined coins naturally flow to them.. they don't even have to work to get more coins..

if I understand how NXT works correctly this IS a fundamental flaw.
it is much more dangerous than a %51 attack which can only allow attackers to spend 1 or 2 blocks worth of coins before the miners start rejecting the transactions.

if you look a the bitcoin richlist for example... address with the most BTC was actually seized from the Silk Road.

(if this site is correct)
http://bitcoinrichlist.com/top100

now in BTC world that doesn't matter because those coins are taken out of circulation and the owner of that address, the biggest miners and the most powerful devs are NOT the same people. so the miners keep mining and the devs keep on working new coins get created and spread around.

if that situation were to occur in NXT land.... then that seized address would simply keep growing because by virtue of it being locked nobody can spend the coins.
ask yourself this.. who is going to mine or buy NXT if most of the new coins will go to the FBI for example...

please correct me if my understanding of the underlying NXT model is incorrect but to me that seems to be how it works.

First, I don't know what you mean by "newly created coins" as NXT isn't inflationary. The coins aren't generated from thin air - they come from fees.

Second, the seized funds from Silk Road haven't been taken out of circulation, the FBI is planning to sell them.

Third, a 51% attack isn't possible with NXT, an attacker would have to get like 90% of the coins, which seems impossible. It's more likely the government will build its own ASIC network to try and take over Bitcoin if you want to engage in those kind of theories.

[NWO]

The average person is saying the exact same thing with regards to BTC. Go around the streets and ask people. There are a lot of people that just feel its a fad that will die. They don't see the value in Bitcoin because of it being a digital currency. Some of my friends all feel why should they use it when Credit cards work just as well other than it being centralized. If one doesn't care about that then yeah...

Considering that even Bitcoin has struggled for years, how the hell do you expect that yet another obscure altcoin (in hundreds now), like Nxt to get some traction, huh?

Nxt did pretty well in 1 month since "official" launch.  It will get some traction by offering new features (faster transactions, messages, aliases, decentralized asset exchanges/market place, etc).

It was manipulated... Pretty easy to do when a small group owns a large majority of coins.

[Alphi]

First, I don't know what you mean by "newly created coins" as NXT isn't inflationary. The coins aren't generated from thin air - they come from fees.

Second, the seized funds from Silk Road haven't been taken out of circulation, the FBI is planning to sell them.

Third, a 51% attack isn't possible with NXT, an attacker would have to get like 90% of the coins, which seems impossible. It's more likely the government will build its own ASIC network to try and take over Bitcoin if you want to engage in those kind of theories.

Firstly... "newly created" and "generated" mean the same thing... you are just arguing semantics

Secondly.. seized funds.. yes they are taken out of circulation for a time. the FBI has control of them and has NOT sold them yet that is the point. If those coins were NXT the FBI holdings would be increasing in number without them having to do anything.

Thirdly.. 51% was talking about BITCOIN.... i said the concentration of coins is fundamentally is WORSE than a 51% attack in the context of NXT because the concentration acts like gravity attracting more coins. essentially those people who control the largest amount of coins control the entire market of not just existing coins but the creation of new coins.. this is very dangerous indeed. this is the fundamental flaw of any entirely PoS system.


you missed the point of my post completely due to lack of understanding both BTC and NXT.

[Bitventurer]

who knows maybe satoshi might come back in some years and release Bitcoin 2.0

He already did. And called it "Nxt".

+1440

[extee]

First, I don't know what you mean by "newly created coins" as NXT isn't inflationary. The coins aren't generated from thin air - they come from fees.

Second, the seized funds from Silk Road haven't been taken out of circulation, the FBI is planning to sell them.

Third, a 51% attack isn't possible with NXT, an attacker would have to get like 90% of the coins, which seems impossible. It's more likely the government will build its own ASIC network to try and take over Bitcoin if you want to engage in those kind of theories.

Firstly... "newly created" and "generated" mean the same thing... you are just arguing semantics

Secondly.. seized funds.. yes they are taken out of circulation for a time. the FBI has control of them and has NOT sold them yet that is the point. If those coins were NXT the FBI holdings would be increasing in number without them having to do anything.

Thirdly.. 51% was talking about BITCOIN.... i said the concentration of coins is fundamentally is WORSE than a 51% attack in the context of NXT because the concentration acts like gravity attracting more coins. essentially those people who control the largest amount of coins control the entire market of not just existing coins but the creation of new coins.. this is very dangerous indeed. this is the fundamental flaw of any entirely PoS system.


you missed the point of my post completely due to lack of understanding both BTC and NXT.

sorry but you're totally clueless.

in bitcoin the more mining power you acquire the more coins you create the more fees rewards you get and on top of that the 51% issue
in Nxt the more stake you have the more fees rewards you get . PERIOD (nothing else)
stakes are pretty much virtual mining chips....but which only take care of transaction/fees.

and btw i think there's also a cap in place  above 1 million or something....where your chances of getting fees rewards don't increase past that (not sure thouigh)

in any case the total of coins are already allocated. it is just fees rewards (recycled coins spent in trasanction costs) . which let me tell you....it ain't that much of big business.


soon  pooled forging might be in the protocol (CfB said they was working on that)....so removing the chance/lottery thing which i don't like(with the big stakeholders currently having more chances as they hold more tickets)...so with pooled forging pretty much all tarnsactions fees would be redistributed with same % . so any wallet running a node would be like some saving account giving same % return to all.
so if i have 100 nxt after an year i might have 103 nxt.....and if someone has 1000 he would then have 1030....and so on.
you can even have a stakeholder with 80% of all nxt...and it won't ruin in any way the ecosystem for the the other 20%. he can't do shit apart from dumping on an exchnge and affecting the price.....same as a big bitcoin holder can do....but that only distributes the coins and ....that's what's been happening for the past 3 months....the big original stakeholders are becoming less and less and the coin is becoming ever more distributed. infact it is currently more evenly distributed than bitcoin.

[relm9]

Thirdly.. 51% was talking about BITCOIN.... i said the concentration of coins is fundamentally is WORSE than a 51% attack in the context of NXT because the concentration acts like gravity attracting more coins. essentially those people who control the largest amount of coins control the entire market of not just existing coins but the creation of new coins.. this is very dangerous indeed. this is the fundamental flaw of any entirely PoS system.


you missed the point of my post completely due to lack of understanding both BTC and NXT.

Nope. Read up on how transparent forging works in NXT. I didn't miss your point, you claim someone will buy up a ton of coins and eventually control the entire supply through forging. I don't think this is possible unless, as I said, the attacker acquired over 90% of the coins. The fees generated from forging wouldn't be enough to increase their stake size to 90% if they had say 60, 70% of the coins, which already would be VERY hard to get.

Also, if the attacker misses his chance to create a block his forging power is penalized for that round and his fees would go to other stakeholders. So a possible attack would assume he is forging at all times and never misses a block (very  unlikely). In that sense even a 90%+ attack may not be successful.

That's why I said it's more realistic that the government or some entity would just build a massive ASIC network to take over Bitcoin. Much easier...

[Ortegon]

I can't understand - is there a coin ripple as an independent coin and cryptocurrency, or it's just a platform to make p2p burse?

[Sukrim]

I can't understand - is there a coin ripple as an independent coin and cryptocurrency, or it's just a platform to make p2p burse?

It is both:
XRP ("ripples") are the native unbacked currency that reside on the Ripple payment network/exchange.

[Bluestreet]

It's a massive scam, besides bitcoin and litecoin, I am looking into iCoin, just making sure the developer is legit.

[superresistant]

Bitcoin was an amazing experiment that never fixed its flaws after 4 years of existence. It is eternity in crypto-currency.

The ponzi-mining-scheme is absurd and is going nowhere.

Nxt is one of the only crypto that have guts to face problems and provide solutions.

I will not talk about Ripple because it is not a crypto but a centralized IOU exchange, learn the difference please.

[Ortegon]

I can't understand - is there a coin ripple as an independent coin and cryptocurrency, or it's just a platform to make p2p burse?

It is both:
XRP ("ripples") are the native unbacked currency that reside on the Ripple payment network/exchange.

Thanks a lot!