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Author Topic: Merit abuse. 50+12 merits received within 1 day and 1 minute.  (Read 1152 times)
kruglikov
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June 19, 2018, 09:45:23 PM
Last edit: June 19, 2018, 10:16:33 PM by kruglikov
 #1

On June 10 User 1miau https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2143453 received 50 merits (33+17) from a mod of a German board phantastisch https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=18312 for a topic called  Übersetzungs-Spam gefunden? Hier könnt ihr ihn berichten (Translation = Found a translation spam ? Here you can report it.) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4415262.msg39318850#msg39318850 Also he received 12 merits within 1 minute on June 14 for the same topic from the user qwk https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=24140. I think this is a record for merits giveaway from two profiles to a single profile in that short period of time for a REGULAR TOPIC. This people are either fiends or 1miau is just their alt account, that is pushed to Full Member status via merit abuse. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=2143453
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1miau
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June 19, 2018, 10:06:15 PM
 #2

OP, please have a look again, who gave me the Merits and for which posts! There is no merit abuse or are you jealous?

I think it's a hard accusation to say the German Mod or qwk (a legendary registered in 2011) are Merit abusers.

And regarding yourself: do we have tagged a google-translate spam of you? Fine! This is how the topic should work!

kruglikov
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June 19, 2018, 10:08:59 PM
 #3

OP, please have a look again, who gave me the Merits and for which posts! There is no merit abuse or are you jealous?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=2143453

https://imgur.com/a/k6B1cXW
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June 19, 2018, 10:23:13 PM
Last edit: June 19, 2018, 11:46:44 PM by 1miau
 #4

It's very strange: today a russian guy entered the translation thread complaining about his shady translate ANN was deleted. His complaints are written in worst german translated with a translation tool. There is nothing wrong to report ANN translated by Google Translate or similar to the Mod. We make a list of abusers and so everyone gets to know them. This will be more easy to find them faster.

I don't know if you are an alt of Curare (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2159516) or why are you so interested in the German section? Have some translate-spam there?!  Cheesy

kruglikov
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June 19, 2018, 10:23:37 PM
 #5

OP, please have a look again, who gave me the Merits and for which posts! There is no merit abuse or are you jealous?

I think it's a hard accusation to say the German Mod or qwk (a legendary registered in 2011) are Merit abusers.

And regarding yourself: do we have tagged a google-translate spam of you? Fine! This is how the topic should work!

Nobody cares who they are an when are they registered. All of us are following forum rules here.  You received 33 and 17 merits in one day (June 10) for a just a regular topic. There was nothing  special in that post. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4415262.msg39318850#msg39318850 And on June 14 you received 12 merits in the same topic within ONE MINUTE 10.42; 10.42; 10.43; 10.43; 10.43 https://imgur.com/a/k6B1cXW That actions are clear merit abuse and you must be red tagged for that. P.S I never participated in any translation company.
1miau
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June 19, 2018, 10:36:41 PM
 #6

Do you understand the german posts there? If not:

33 Merits were given for the entry post about how to find translation-cheaters using Google Translate or similar. In addition I've launched a transparent reporting system everyone can report to. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4415262.0

The post 17 Merits were given is about a list I want to update if someone reports new posts. Having a look at the list everyone can recognize the translation-cheaters and report new Google-Translate-ANNs faster for issues in the future. There are some candidates having accumulated 16 fake ANNs (or bounties). https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4415262.msg39796150#msg39796150

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June 19, 2018, 10:50:01 PM
 #7

Do you understand the german posts there? If not:

33 Merits were given for the entry post about how to find translation-cheaters using Google Translate or similar. In addition I've launched a transparent reporting system everyone can report to. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4415262.0

The post 17 Merits were given is about a list I want to update if someone reports new posts. Having a look at the list everyone can recognize the translation-cheaters and report new Google-Translate-ANNs faster for issues in the future. There are some candidates having accumulated 16 fake ANNs (or bounties). https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4415262.msg39796150#msg39796150

Let us wait for Default trust members. Only they can decide, if that was the merit abuse or not. A lot of people are trying to post something valuable, to get some merits and believe me, for a newbie and even a junior, it can take months if not years, to achieve just a full member status. And you suddenly are getting almost 70 merits for some posts in 2 page topic about translation spam? That is completely unfair and that's why I reported you (I never reported anyone before that) Anyway that was nothing personal and I wish you a good luck. Cheers.
1miau
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June 19, 2018, 11:02:00 PM
 #8

I agree it can be hard to earn Merit, but if you post good quality (not only one post, the whole posting history is important) you can get a nice bunch of them. It's a mixture of good content, help and creativity.
And yes, your posts have to be noticed by people giving merit. If you post in a spam megathread your quality post will be covered immediatedly.

Finally this is not unfair I received the merit for, it's a big problem in the German section because we have no subforums for ANNs and Bounties. The result is all the ANNs are bumped all the time covering important topics. And if there are every time translation cheaters bumping their ANNs too, it's very annoying. In addition ANN-cheating is against the rules.

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June 19, 2018, 11:27:56 PM
Merited by TMAN (5), DarkStar_ (2)
 #9

Let us wait for Default trust members. Only they can decide, if that was the merit abuse or not.
Actually, as far as I recall, DT users have no say in the question of merit abuse.
But I guess the mods might have a look at my presumed "wrongdoing" Cool

A lot of people are trying to post something valuable, to get some merits and believe me, for a newbie and even a junior, it can take months if not years, to achieve just a full member status.
Actually, it's not really hard to receive a lot of merit.
Contribute something meaningful to the forum, write an FAQ for users, answer serious questions not with one-liners, but with meaningful, insightful and correct, researched information, and you'll rake the merit in.
At least that's the standard I require for giving merit.

1miau showed a meaningful contribution to the forum by actively fighting google translated spam on the German subforum.
I credited that with some merit and promised to credit further reports with more.

And you suddenly are getting almost 70 merits for some posts in 2 page topic about translation spam? That is completely unfair and that's why I reported you (I never reported anyone before that) Anyway that was nothing personal and I wish you a good luck. Cheers.
You seem to fail to understand why it's not the length of a post that makes it merit-worthy.
I happen to understand that the research work behind 1miau's (and others') reports is more than trivial, which is why I consider it a good idea to award such work for the good of the forum with some merit.

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June 19, 2018, 11:29:20 PM
 #10

I definitely agree it's not the standard behavior. They are a newly created member within the last month which is strange to be getting so much merit so soon and a lot from just a couple people. However, I'm tending to think that the non-english boards try and get a lot of their native speakers to stick around and grow that part of the forum, so they will issue their merit out a lot more. That, and I've received a lot of merit from one user myself without asking for any.

Doesn't convince me entirely of abuse, but good job being a little suspicious! Continue your work for evaluating strange merit scenarios.

Merit needs a rework anyways Grin
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June 20, 2018, 03:32:25 AM
Merited by 1miau (1)
 #11

Right now translation spam is a problem . The fact that it stays in local threads worsens it more since we can only look out only in that language section which we understand.  I think it is not a regular thread but it is a very good and important thread for reporting spammers. Also it drives an idea for others to start something like this in their own section which will help in weeding out such problems from local threads. Something like this should be encouraged which qwk and phantastisch did by sending huge merits.

From my point of view I don't find it is a merit abuse as it's not like that they are giving it to their alts or trading it for money. It's totally upon them to how much to send merit based on how they value the thread/post.

And btw this thread should be in Meta since the matter is related to merit abuse.

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kruglikov
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June 20, 2018, 06:25:53 AM
Last edit: June 20, 2018, 06:43:03 AM by kruglikov
 #12

it's a big problem in the German section because we have no subforums for ANNs and Bounties.  

There are no child boards (subforums) for bounties in Russian thread as well and in many others.

In addition I've launched a transparent reporting system everyone can report to. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4415262.0

For reporting bounty cheaters, translation cheaters scammers and spammers there is a scam accusation board on this forum and if there will be a need for child boards (subforums as you call them) Theymos will make decision about that.  

It's totally upon them to how much to send merit based on how they value the thread/post.

Then why a lot of people are tagged for that reason ? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2823221.0

Research work behind 1miau's (and others') reports is more than trivial, which is why I consider it a good idea to award such work for the good of the forum with some merit.

Theymos (The admin of this forum) received 45 merits only once https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=35 and of course he never received 12 merits in ONE MINUTE from one account and 50 merits in ONE DAY from another.

OgNasty DT1 member received 25 merits only once https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=18321

Same story is with other DT members. NOR OF THEM received such amount of merits in a such short period of time.  BTW YOU YOURSELF  qwk never received more then 10 merits for your post from one account https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=24140

So, I guess 1miau is more valuable member of community then admin of this forum, all DT members and all of us, because he found some German translator scammers and opened a thread for reporting them......

OP, please have a look again, who gave me the Merits !
I think it's a hard accusation to say the German Mod or qwk (a legendary registered in 2011) are Merit abusers.


This is the most important point. 1miau is thinking that nobody will punish the mod of German board and a "Donator+Legendary+DT member"

I'm out of this thread because as I can see there are "UNTOUCHABLE" forum members here and they are allowed to do whatever they want.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=2143453

https://imgur.com/a/k6B1cXW

Have a nice day.  
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June 20, 2018, 07:45:32 AM
 #13

It's totally upon them to how much to send merit based on how they value the thread/post.

Then why a lot of people are tagged for that reason ? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2823221.0


Are they tagged just because of sending huge chunk of merit to a user? Give a look at it again  Wink


I'm out of this thread because as I can see there are "UNTOUCHABLE" forum members here and they are allowed to do whatever they want.

Yeah there are unless a conclusive and solid proof is available to take them down.



Merit abuse is not regarding for which post you send it or how you send  it(all at once or bit by bit) or  how much you send it. It's regarding to whom you send it (abuse if sent to alt) or if you are buying/selling merits .

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June 20, 2018, 10:30:10 AM
 #14

OP, please have a look again, who gave me the Merits and for which posts! There is no merit abuse or are you jealous?

I think it's a hard accusation to say the German Mod or qwk (a legendary registered in 2011) are Merit abusers.

And regarding yourself: do we have tagged a google-translate spam of you? Fine! This is how the topic should work!
If people like Darkstar could check this forum and didnot see nothing wrong. I think the OP was indeed jealous and in other for him to own some merit he have to raise this issue so he can be compliment for it. I'm saying this cause I was sort of jealous of you either Smiley

.
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June 20, 2018, 01:02:03 PM
 #15

1miau

I read this post in German. It was not translated by Google translator. You say bullshit. I'll tell you more. In the German section there are much lower quality translations. I'm not a specialist in German. And nevertheless, it is clear to the newcomer that you are abusing the merit.

Perhaps you have an agreement with the moderator. Or maybe you just managed to get to him in a good position. Anyway, Either way, it also seems suspicious your growth merit. You have 42 posts, but 92 merit. Hardly I know another such person in our forum, who would also quickly and easily receive a merit. I have no doubt that you receive a fraudulent merit. If the author of the topic will complain about you to the administration, I will understand it.

Merit is generally a stupid and absurd rule. It annoys me, too. But since it exists, I want people to get it honestly, and not through buying or negotiating with a moderator.

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June 20, 2018, 01:06:51 PM
 #16

Yes, it really looks like a purchase. The person has 42 messages, but 91 merits. Other people create great themes and get 1-2 merit for it. I for all time on the forum received 1 (!) merit, although I tried to actively support topics and help new users.

I understand people who are just buying merits. this rule is really absurd. But, 1miau, you must try to do it more imperceptibly Wink
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June 20, 2018, 02:43:33 PM
 #17

That's kinda suspicious for 62 Merits earned in a day. some are really giving big amounts of merits. you can make some clarifications if the post is really worth the merits given or not.


Merit needs a rework anyways Grin
You're right Merit does need a rework. it's kinda unfair for most members but there is a good thing with Merits is making the useless posters not obtain any higher if they don't post with sense.



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June 20, 2018, 03:29:31 PM
 #18

I have a confession to make:

Indeed, I bought merit.
On at least three occasions did I pay BTC for merit from other users of the bitcointalk forum.
That includes one occasion where I traded BTC for merit with an administrator of this forum, using a fake persona (a.k.a. alt account).

Conclusive proof of my crimes against this forum:

Exhibit A:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4432338.msg39570236#msg39570236
in which qwk receives 10 merit for stating the obvious of being a so-called "Donator", from an administrator of the forum, disguised behind the fake persona
theymos_away, obviously in return for a payment of 10 BTC barely a few years earlier.

Exhibit B:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1954571.msg25267824#msg25267824
in which qwk receives 20 merit from user 600watt in return for a so-called "donation" towards an alleged "worthy cause", for which not further proof other than (most likely photoshopped) pictures of grateful children are given.

Exhibit C:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=368601.msg3936987#msg3936987
further evidence of monetary contributions from the side of qwk towards user 600watt, who led users to believe that he was preparing a so-called "BTC1K-Party" which actually never took place. Part of the contributions to the party have never been returned, e.g. qwk's payment for 2 tickets (which obviously was repaid in the form of aforementioned 20 merits).

You may now turn your sarcasm detectors off again. Hadn't turned it on? Read again!

All free men, wherever they may live, can use Bitcoin, and, therefore, as a free man, I take pride in the words "Ich bin ein Bitcoiner!"
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June 20, 2018, 04:09:19 PM
Last edit: June 20, 2018, 04:23:57 PM by qwk
 #19

he received 12 merits within 1 minute on June 14 for the same topic from the user qwk
Just to give you an explanation, though I don't actually believe you deserve one:
I tend to "speed-read" threads where I find some valuable postings and just drop some merit to anyone I deem "worthy".
E.g., see the thread 2018 wird das Jahr von ? ? ?
I happened to stumble over that thread a few days ago and noticed some (medium) quality content by quite a few users.
So I decided to just "let it rain" and poured out 16 individual merits to posters in said thread over the course of some 10 minutes (took me a while to speed-read all the 16 pages of the thread).

All of us are following forum rules here.
I'm not so sure if you do. You're posting an obvious off topic thread in "Trading Discussion > Scam Accusations".

And you suddenly are getting almost 70 merits for some posts in 2 page topic about translation spam? That is completely unfair and that's why I reported you
So you're actually confessing that you used the "report to moderator"-feature out of jealousy?

it's a big problem in the German section because we have no subforums for ANNs and Bounties.  
There are no child boards (subforums) for bounties in Russian thread as well and in many others.
The same problem most probably exists in most local subforums.
There's no reason why the local communities shouldn't adopt their own respective ways to deal with it.
This is one of the ways we "Germans" try to handle it.

For reporting bounty cheaters, translation cheaters scammers and spammers there is a scam accusation board on this forum and if there will be a need for child boards (subforums as you call them) Theymos will make decision about that.  
"Scam Accusation" is not for "forum abuse".

Research work behind 1miau's (and others') reports is more than trivial, which is why I consider it a good idea to award such work for the good of the forum with some merit.
Theymos (The admin of this forum) received 45 merits only once https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=35 and of course he never received 12 merits in ONE MINUTE from one account and 50 merits in ONE DAY from another.

OgNasty DT1 member received 25 merits only once https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=18321

Same story is with other DT members. NOR OF THEM received such amount of merits in a such short period of time
Seriously, most of them couldn't care less and would rather have merit given to "good newbies" than wasted on them.
Also, being a DT member doesn't necessarily make you a "quality poster".

BTW YOU YOURSELF  qwk never received more then 10 merits for your post from one account https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=24140
Untrue. I once received 20 merit, but that's more than 120 days ago, which is why you can't see it Smiley
And yes, sometimes I feel it's a little unfair how little merit I receive for some of my "major works" like the German taxation FAQ.
But then again, what am I gonna do with the merit? Become Legendary^2?
So please, don't waste your merit on me, give it to newbies, members, Full members, Hero members etc. who deserve to "rank up" eventually.

So, I guess 1miau is more valuable member of community then admin of this forum, all DT members and all of us, because he found some German translator scammers and opened a thread for reporting them......
In my opinion, yes. A newbie who goes the extra mile of doing the forum a service deserves merit more than all of the above.

nobody will punish the mod of German board and a "Donator+Legendary+DT member"
Not unless there's a good reason.

Just ask yourself one question:
Why would qwk & phantastisch "sell merit" to a newbie or "push an alt"?
Doesn't really make sense to me.
Pushing an alt is something you usually do for money.
I'm not even participating in paid signature programs etc.
So, obviously, I'm not in it for the money.
Where's the motive?


I would like to conclude this post with just one last statement, if I may:
If you find anything wrong with the merit given from qwk & phantastisch to 1miau, accuse them!
It's us who might have been selling merit / pushing an alt, whatever.
Leave 1miau, one of the few "good newbies", alone!

edit: corrected a few typos.

All free men, wherever they may live, can use Bitcoin, and, therefore, as a free man, I take pride in the words "Ich bin ein Bitcoiner!"
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June 20, 2018, 06:15:01 PM
 #20

Let us wait for Default trust members. Only they can decide, if that was the merit abuse or not. A lot of people are trying to post something valuable, to get some merits and believe me, for a newbie and even a junior, it can take months if not years, to achieve just a full member status. And you suddenly are getting almost 70 merits for some posts in 2 page topic about translation spam? That is completely unfair and that's why I reported you (I never reported anyone before that) Anyway that was nothing personal and I wish you a good luck. Cheers.

Merely sending or receiving merits is not proof of anything. If you have actual proof that these accounts are alts or colluded in some way AND they send merits to each other - that might be something to look into.

Let's say I send you 50 merits. What does that mean?

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