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Author Topic: "Failure to Understand Bitcoin Could Cost Investors Billions" (Bitcoin's flaws)  (Read 42868 times)
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AnonyMint
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March 13, 2014, 11:13:44 AM
 #321

Btw, I have tried living like that here in the Philippines (where that photo was probably taken) and trust me, you don't want that "prosperity".

Gains in prosperity are not a zero-sum game. We can produce more energy. There is no limit. The Second Law of Thermodynamics assures us that entropy trends to maximum. Even Einstein said that law is fundamental.

Anarchy is not only people living in the jungle like rabbits. It is also the decentralized internet. You conflate poverty with decentralization. There is always a mix of top-down and bottom-up organization in society. It is when this balance skews too far to top-down that socialism is peaking in a big heap of debt and corruption.

I know you would really like a Dark Age, but sorry you won't get one inspite of the fact that the collectivism has f8cked everything up pretty severely this time around. The reason is because the internet is too powerful as a knowledge liberating tool. And I am particularly adept at seeing what needs to be done now.

The at-home 3D printing revolution will mean we can be self-sufficient and autonomous and void the 'aliens' leeches with their large capital and factories. The 3D printer can even print itself!

That is the last post I will allow from you that repeats the nonsense that all progress came from collectivism. In fact, all progress came from individual discoveries! You don't even understand the basic definition of knowledge:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=355212.msg3829608#msg3829608

He defines knowledge here
Information is Alive


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=355212.msg3804181#msg3804181
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=355212.msg3831144#msg3831144
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=355212.msg3804256#msg3804256

Take the time to read those link posts above otherwise don't bother to reply.

Communication and network effects are not collectivism. Collectivism is making promises to each other and binding each other in futures contracts. This is slavery, because nobody can predict every micro-event in the future. The futures contracts prevent the local annealing that optimizes the economy. I first learned this concept from Jason Hommel. Ignoring the Biblical points, you can still find the mathematical wisdom of his point:

http://silverstockreport.com/2009/greenspan-misapplied.html
http://www.silverstockreport.com/essays/Freedom_from_Usury.html

I expound on the fact that only maximization of degrees-of-freedom, thus optimal fitness, via local real-time annealing is what creates prosperity:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=355212.msg4576810#msg4576810

collectivism = promises = futures contracts = slavery = boom&bust

You can find that theme throughout my archives. Whereas collectivism stomps on and tries to prevent fitness and prosperity.

Re-read my prior post, I added to it.

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March 13, 2014, 06:10:07 PM
 #322

Armstrong says government is going along with Bitcoin because that is what they want so they can track all the wealth and tax it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WyGfBsBxW0#t=2700

(video should begin playing at 45:00 mins so you can hear the sound bite immediately)

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March 13, 2014, 06:14:55 PM
 #323

This Armstrong is probably the most intelligent person alive in the western world. For refusing to join the PTB, he was put to prison for 12 years in his advanced age.
What is PTB?
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March 13, 2014, 06:33:15 PM
 #324

powers-that-be

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March 13, 2014, 06:39:06 PM
 #325

powers-that-be
Was not aware that this guy ended in prison for some time, wow...
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March 13, 2014, 06:46:32 PM
 #326

powers-that-be
Was not aware that this guy ended in prison for some time, wow...

Summary:

A link to open source software would be nice but given Armstrong's alleged history, that's unlikely to happen.

Alleged ? Come come Blah Blah - the man was convicted in a court of law Wink.

You are too lazy to learn what really happened. Such as being held in jail for 7 years on a contempt charge by the Kangeroo courts because he had information that the banksters wanted and he would not give it to them, so they fabricated bogus charges and refused to allow him to present evidence at the trial. He eventually did a plea deal, so he could get out of prison, but this was no admission of guilt. Armstrong has covered this in great detail in his writings on his blog...

...

...Your A.I. model wouldn't have sufficient training data.

Armstrong spent and collected $10s of millions of data from archaeology, sending researchers to newspaper archives all over the world, etc..

At least $100 million would be required to recreate his model, and also there are things he discovered along the way such as the 4th dimensional wave structure...

He has written about all of this on his blog over the past year.

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March 13, 2014, 07:03:08 PM
 #327

Productivity increase and output increase is the result of tax/tribute and its derivative: the debt/interest.

Moderators, must we be forced to have my thread inundated with such incredulous nonsense?!!?  Huh Angry Cry

If he actually bothered to look at the marginal increase in GDP for each $dollar of debt added, he would see it is declining. Thus mathematically, he is factually incorrect!




Unfortunately Zarathustra is filibustering this thread. That means every time I delete his post, he reposts it. Thus I have no moderation power if I don't reload the page continuously.

I have emailed the moderators about this and asked if they can ban him from posting in the thread.

If they can't, then I won't be able to leave the thread open for others to post.

The reason I am deleting his post, is he repeats the exact same points he has made in the prior several posts, without addressing any of the points that have been made against him.

He is simply trolling (and I rarely use that word, search my archives) in the most aggressive and abusive way in that he purposely intends to either consume all my precious time or cause everyone to lose their ability to post in this thread.

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March 13, 2014, 07:28:39 PM
 #328

I've unlocked the thread, as a moderator replied to me and I assume explained to him that you can't filibuster self-moderated threads.

I will allow him to post if he makes any new points.

I am not censoring his points. But I will not let him repeat them over and over again ad nauseum.

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March 13, 2014, 07:35:31 PM
 #329

Productivity increase and output increase is the result of tax/tribute and its derivative: the debt/interest.

Moderators, must we be forced to have my thread inundated with such incredulous nonsense?!!?  Huh Angry Cry

If he actually bothered to look at the marginal increase in GDP for each $dollar of debt added, he would see it is declining. Thus mathematically, he is factually incorrect!




Unfortunately Zarathustra is filibustering this thread. That means every time I delete his post, he reposts it. Thus I have no moderation power if I don't reload the page continuously.

I have emailed the moderators about this and asked if they can ban him from posting in the thread.


Very good charts. They are true. They present a diminishing marginal effect of additional debt within a debt driven business cycle. Do you - great censor - know what an effect is? The effect of additional debt is additional GDP, until the tipping point is reached and a collapse is imminent.

In an environment beyond the state/tribute/tax/debt one can not find societies that produce additional GDPs. That's anarchy. No state - no economy, but self-sufficiency.
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March 13, 2014, 07:39:12 PM
 #330

Can anyone tell me if this is legit concerns??

As far as I'm concerned, these guys are arguing about how many bitcoins can fit on the head of a pushpin.  They both have data on their sides, and both of them seem to get some rather significant details very wrong.  They both think they are the smartest person in the room, while the smartest people don't bother to respond to them anymore.  You'll have to make your own decisions about whom to trust.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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March 13, 2014, 07:44:01 PM
 #331

Zarathustra,

You miss the point that marginal productivity is declining as debt load increases, thus your argument that the lasting gains in productivity that we have now come only from debt can't possibly make sense as they would all reverse when the debt defaults come.

2016 won't be the first global debt collapse in history. Happens over and over in history.

But the fact is that lower middle class people (and even many poor people in the 3rd world countries) live higher quality lives than Kings did a couple of centuries ago.

This is because of technology.

It is true that the capitalist+socialist system drains most of the wealth back to the capitalists, but the fact is the remaining portion which is the technology, they can't take it away from us.

The proof is that even people here in the Philippines don't live shivering in a cave without electricity any more. They drive motorcycles, they use chainsaws to cut trees faster.

Here in this dinky subdivision where I am currently staying, they are even building the concrete houses using steel preforms, so they can pour all the walls in one pour.

That is technology! Much improved than laying it hollow block by block just several years ago.

Everyone here has a cell phone and smart phones (computers) are proliferating.

Etc, etc, etc..

Please take your Malthusian foolishness to some other thread.

You are wasting my time.

P.S. Up to now, there is has been no way to separate capitalist+socialist system. But if we can stop taxation with anonymity, then we can remove the power vacuum that forces those two things to meld. That is one of the main motivations of my points about anonymity, but not the only point. Note we will never eliminate all taxes. This is about keeping the government out of the knowledge age realm and let them tax the physical economy, so the capitalists get their world and we (hitech workers) get our world. So the collapsing government won't tax and confiscate us into a Dark Age. And also so capitalists can't just capture the taxation power again to leech on all of us. Note I am not against capitalists. What I am against is when capital gets so large it can only grow by corrupting the government. We need to recycle that capital back to the entrepreneurs and smaller capitalists continously (but gradually). This is what the perpetual debasement of an altcoin is all about.

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March 13, 2014, 07:49:43 PM
 #332

Armstrong says government is going along with Bitcoin because that is what they want so they can track all the wealth and tax it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WyGfBsBxW0#t=2700

(video should begin playing at 45:00 mins so you can hear the sound bite immediately)

How is it different than fiat then?
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March 13, 2014, 07:51:18 PM
 #333

If you are really serious to read high quality discussion then AnonyMint, tortilla, DeathAndTaxes, and others make more rational discussions over at:

cryptocrypt.org

You can join by invitation only. You can send tortilla a request for invitation I suppose, if you've exhibited a high signal-to-noise ratio in your posts on this forum.

"Tortilla" is me Smiley
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March 13, 2014, 08:00:54 PM
 #334

Armstrong says government is going along with Bitcoin because that is what they want so they can track all the wealth and tax it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WyGfBsBxW0#t=2700

(video should begin playing at 45:00 mins so you can hear the sound bite immediately)

How is it different than fiat then?

There are many pros and cons that could be made about this. I hope others express their logic.

I will simply say I am grateful Bitcoin exists, otherwise it would be nearly impossible to launch altcoins within the ecosystem that attempt to improve upon the situation at hand.

In short, I think Bitcoin is more than what the government thinks it is. Psst. Don't tell them. Don't wake up Goliath too soon.  Lips sealed

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March 13, 2014, 08:16:11 PM
 #335


Zarathustra,

You miss the point that marginal productivity is declining as debt load increases,

I don't miss that. I confirm that. It's a debt driven business cycle with the diminishing effect of additional debt, until the point is reached where the effect dives below zero.

Quote
thus your argument that the lasting gains in productivity that we have now come only from debt can't possibly make sense as they would all reverse when the debt defaults come.

Tribute was the first debt. This was the beginning of the compulsion to produce ever growing surpluses for the gluttonous masters and rulers.

Anarchist, stateless communities don't produce growing surpluses, because there is simply no need there.


Quote
But the fact is that lower middle class people (and even many poor people in the 3rd world countries) live higher quality lives than Kings did a couple of centuries ago.

This is because of technology.

Non-collectivized people in the rain forests live higher quality lives than Kings and Internet-Children.

This is because they don't have technology.

The highest suizid rates among children is found in the developed world, South Korea, Japan et al.

Quote
The proof is that even people here in the Philippines don't live shivering in a cave without electricity any more. They drive motorcycles, they use chainsaws to cut trees faster.

Here in this dinky subdivision where I am currently staying, they are even building the concrete houses using steel preforms, so they can pour all the walls in one pour.

That is technology! Much improved than laying it hollow block by block just several years ago.

Everyone here has a cell phone and smart phones (computers) are proliferating.

Yes, fully brainwashed by the collectivist parents, masters and rulers. The system is 10'000 years old and anarchy survived at some few territories on this planet only. But there will be a rebirth of true anarchy. Kontratjeff cycles are only small ones. There are much bigger ones to come.

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March 13, 2014, 08:27:28 PM
 #336

Warning I am not going to go tit-for-tat with you because I have programming work to do and you are filibustering something very important!

So I will just be forced to delete your nonsense.

Here is one last attempt to explain to you...


You miss the point that marginal productivity is declining as debt load increases,

I don't miss that. I confirm that. It's a debt driven business cycle with the diminishing effect of additional debt, until the point is reached where the effect dives below zero.

But if productivity was only debt that we pay back to our masters, then we wouldn't have any sustained rewards. Yet that is not the case as we live better than Kings did.


thus your argument that the lasting gains in productivity that we have now come only from debt can't possibly make sense as they would all reverse when the debt defaults come.

Tribute was the first debt. This was the beginning of the compulsion to produce ever growing surpluses for the gluttonous masters and rulers.

Anarchist, stateless communities don't produce growing surpluses, because there is simply no need there.

You haven't refuted the point I made. You are angry about surpluses for the rich, but it still didn't reverse the permanent gains for the masses in that we live better than Kings did in past centuries. We live longer, less disease, have electricity, refrigeration, internet, combustion engines, etc..

I mean you would have to be an obstinate fool+troll not to admit that!


But the fact is that lower middle class people (and even many poor people in the 3rd world countries) live higher quality lives than Kings did a couple of centuries ago.

This is because of technology.

Non-collectivized people in the rain forests live higher quality lives than Kings and Internet-Children.

Bullshit. Leave us and go live there then. Why are you on this internet?

I tried it. You want to be itchy always? You want to have no refrigeration? You want to spend all your time doing manual labor and very little time to do something productive with your creative brain?

I realize most of the debt zombies don't have freedom, but I am my own boss and can do what ever I want every day. This is what technology has afforded me. Because I am a knowledge worker.

The knowledge I am producing isn't financed from debt. It is financed from my savings, because programmer allows me to be very productive (when I am not wasting my time debating with you).

Now leave the internet now. Do you need an introduction to a native tribe? I am Cherokee. Or I can introduce you to one of several dozens of tribes here in Mindanao. I have friends Matasalog, Banobo, Manobo. I even had a gf Manobo. There are 91 languages here in the Philippines. Malaria, dengue fever, etc.. Come on over...

I had dengue fever twice and almost died in 2012.

If you continue posting on the internet, you are a hypocrite.

The proof is that even people here in the Philippines don't live shivering in a cave without electricity any more. They drive motorcycles, they use chainsaws to cut trees faster.

Here in this dinky subdivision where I am currently staying, they are even building the concrete houses using steel preforms, so they can pour all the walls in one pour.

That is technology! Much improved than laying it hollow block by block just several years ago.

Everyone here has a cell phone and smart phones (computers) are proliferating.

Yes, fully brainwashed by the collectivist parents, masters and rulers. The system is 10'000 years old and anarchy survived at some few territories on this planet only.


So go to the jungle now.

The jungle is here about 500 meters from me. Come here and I will teach you a lesson. Do you know how dangerous it is in the jungle?

You are now banned from this thread. Do not post here again.

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March 13, 2014, 09:00:42 PM
 #337

Warning I am not going to go tit-for-tat with you because I have programming work to do and you are filibustering something very important!

So I will just be forced to delete your nonsense.

Censors are censors because they have no arguments.

Quote
But if productivity was only debt that we pay back to our masters, then we wouldn't have any sustained rewards. Yet that is not the case as we live better than Kings did.

Until the collectivist society collapses again.
Again and again. But this time is different.
Collapsing nuclear plants and fuel pools instead of pyramids.

This is because of collectivist technology. Really great.

Quote
You haven't refuted the point I made. You are angry about surpluses for the rich, but it still didn't reverse the permanent gains for the masses in that we live better than Kings did in past centuries. We live longer, less disease, have electricity, refrigeration, internet, combustion engines, etc..

I am not angry about surpluses for the rich. I am angry about the stupidity of the collectivists who believe that this destructive life is a better life than an anarchist one. The sixth great extinction is man made. Or, better spelled: citizen made.
"Staat nenne ich's, wo alle Gifttrinker sind, Gute und Schlimme: Staat, wo alle sich selber verlieren, Gute und Schlimme:
Staat, wo der langsame Selbstmord aller – »das Leben« heisst."


Quote
Bullshit. Leave us and go live there then. Why are you on this internet?

Because self-sufficient communities are destroyed here and I grew up as a paternalized cartoon of a human. Same as you. We can't survive without the Internet as long as a majority doesn't want to. Either we form self-sufficient communities, or we collapse as a society.

Quote
I tried it. You want to be itchy always? You want to have no refrigeration? You want to spend all your time doing manual labor and very little time to do something productive with your creative brain?

Materialist questions are not the questions that true anarchists ask. They ask: Do you want to be dependent on labor division and interaction with aliens?

Quote
I realize most of the debt zombies don't have freedom, but I am my own boss and can't do what ever I want every day. This is what technology has afforded me. Because I am a knowledge worker.

It is not relevant what some of us are able to do in this system of labor division.

Quote

So go to the jungle now.

The jungle is here about 500 meters from me. Come here and I will teach you a lesson. Do you know how dangerous it is in the jungle?

I have to do some work: I have to help destroying your beloved society of citizens (collectivism).

Quote
You are now banned from this thread. Do not post here again.

So spoke The Great Dictator ...
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March 13, 2014, 11:33:16 PM
 #338

Quote
You haven't refuted the point I made. You are angry about surpluses for the rich, but it still didn't reverse the permanent gains for the masses in that we live better than Kings did in past centuries. We live longer, less disease, have electricity, refrigeration, internet, combustion engines, etc..

I probably should leave this argument alone, but the highlighted part is debatable.  Certainly we live much longer than the tribal cultures that Zarathustra considers to be the high mark of anarchist socites, but it can be reasonablely argued that simply understanding germ theory, which such a tribal society could understand and incorporate into their culture, did the greatest good.  It's also arguable that one of the reasons that European & Asian cultures managed to acheive such high population concentrations was due to the simple fact that both European & Asian cultures had long ago incorporated the use of plates, bowls and utensils that were made of metals or alloys that were self-sterilizing.  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligodynamic_effect)  Which, of course, tribal cultures in the Americas and Africa did not use.  One of the best alloys for this effect is the common Admiral Brass used all over British sailing ships for hundreds of years.  Because the stuff is mostly copper, the surfaces of admiral brass were hostile to pathogens that could be spread through touch vectors.  As we enter the post-antibiotic age, some hospitals are remodeling and including copper alloys for common touch surfaces (door knobs, push plates, countertops, chair arms, serving trays, etc.) because it's so effective that Multiple Resistant Staphylococcus Aureus is killed within 2 hours whether or not the metal was cleaned, and some studies have concluded that no Staph could be found on an innoculated surface after only 45 seconds for pure copper.

Quote
Malaria, dengue fever, etc.. Come on over...

I had dengue fever twice and almost died in 2012.

Of course, such touch surfaces would have done nothing for these tropical maladies, since they are spread by insect bites.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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March 13, 2014, 11:44:14 PM
 #339

Collapsing nuclear plants and fuel pools instead of pyramids.


Hmmm;  large artifical structure, built in the middle of a desert, obviously not intended for habitation, built by a culture with mathmatics and measurement skills that we couldn't match without laser measurement tools; using methods for quarying, transporting and elevating multi-ton stone blocks that we still can't replicate, and built before the most advanced culture known to exist before our own (Egyptian) and with similar structures built half a world away (Mayan).

Prove that they weren't spent fuel storage structures that have outlived their containment needs.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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March 14, 2014, 02:50:31 AM
 #340

Zarathustra's solution to the power vacuum of collectivism is to tell us to go back to being cavemen.

But what he doesn't acknowledge is cavemen still bludgeoned each other to death with cruder weapons.

Anarchy here in Mindanao during the 1800s was that every person carried 5 or 6 knives. Women were afraid to roam far, as they would be kidnapped and impregnated by the opposing tribes.

My solution which I am busy working on now, is to make it impossible for the collective to tax us (the virtual knowledge workers), because they won't be able to see what we are doing nor know who we are.

My solution is moving forwards towards greater technology and prosperity.

There is no perfect solution, but competition is the name of the game.

And all of us men share to some extent those dreams of just wanting to be left alone so we can live happily, so I am saying to you...

What is your plan to accomplish it?

I have my plan. I am competing.

We are legion. We are not beta-males.

P.S. I will repeat again for those who are sending me private messages. AnonyMint will not be announcing any altcoin, nor will he be telling you which altcoin he likes. It is up to you to figure out which features such a great altcoin will have.

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