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Author Topic: [ActiveMining] Official Shareholder Discussion Thread [Moderated]  (Read 629451 times)
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February 19, 2015, 11:46:20 PM
Last edit: February 20, 2015, 01:59:22 AM by zumzero
 #5261

I absolutely agree that for those of us who invested and lost money there are lessons to be learned.  I have learned from this experience myself. I have no issues whatsoever in admitting when I've been scammed.  For me that was Labcoin and NeoBee (others not included due to minimal losses incurred), but not AMC.  Ken is as predictable as shit, and it comes as no surprise he has fallen far short of the minimun expected from a defense team. There you have that reliant whiff of ineptitude that follows everything he does.  I stand by my point that he never set out to create a scam. His actions throughout the process give some credence to those who argue that a scam might be the inevitable outcome of a flailing business, however I strongly disagree with that notion.  I genuinely believe that Ken set out with an American dream however things didn't work out for him for numerous reasons, not least of all the rise in difficulty, unexpected Moon-shot missed trajectory and the untimely hash per chip offered by rivals which forced a rethink in strategy. Against all odds he kept the dream alive way beyond it's expirey date.  THAT IS A FACT.

It's important to understand that this venture actually held real promise and it's unfair to beat oneself up over lost opportunity as it was Ken's arrogance and unwillingness to take on board and react to advice given by the Board of Advisors which would ultimately lead to it's demise. Ken failed to capitalise early on when the numbers looked exceptionally promising (likely way before the butt-hurt-quick-fix-loud-mouth brigade and accompanying trolls got boners) and as time progressed it all started to inevitably cloud over.

My part in all of that was to try and delay the storm in the hope that we'd all get to collect a pot of gold IF the fractal appeared, although in hindsight I became more like Cnut the Great and the only rainbows we got to see were those offered by our little sociopath ponies.  

And by the way, I am defending no-one.  I am voicing my opinions.  He is accountable and has to live with his failure and I sincerely hope he can learn from this and move forward as hopefully the rest of you are doing.  I lost £10,000 not $10,000 and it hurt (past tense).  I pick up the pieces and move forward undeterred.  I believe in this technology and have no issues with losing more than I can afford on my next gamble with the expectation that I'll dine guests on my yatch and bore them senseless with stories of how the bitcoin community were once honoured by Volcanic Eruptor's tantrums.  Grin

Jump into bed with the state all you want, but you can't have it both ways.  I know what side my bread is buttered and I know how to get to the Southern Ocean with a reinforced hull.  What will you do with your bitcoin?

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February 20, 2015, 05:44:19 AM
 #5262

I absolutely agree that for those of us who invested and lost money there are lessons to be learned.  I have learned from this experience myself.

What have you learned?

Quote
I genuinely believe that Ken set out with an American dream however things didn't work out for him for numerous reasons, not least of all the rise in difficulty, unexpected Moon-shot missed trajectory and the untimely hash per chip offered by rivals which forced a rethink in strategy. Against all odds he kept the dream alive way beyond it's expirey date.  THAT IS A FACT.

American dream my ass. An American dream doesn't mean that your investors should blindly follow you while you do not provide one single hard proof of what you are trying to do.
Quote
My part in all of that was to try and delay the storm in the hope that we'd all get to collect a pot of gold IF the fractal appeared, although in hindsight I became more like Cnut the Great and the only rainbows we got to see were those offered by our little sociopath ponies.  

Thanks for admitting that you knew that this was a failure and that you only tried to delay the inevitable. I guess that makes you a accomplice to Ken's lies and thievery.

Quote
He is accountable and has to live with his failure and I sincerely hope he can learn from this and move forward as hopefully the rest of you are doing.
 

You are greatly mistaken here. Ken has a past of failed businesses and from the looks of it the only think that he learned was how to perfect in his lies. Please prove me otherwise. As for the "accountable" part I can only laugh because I don't see him as being accountable at all. He is all fine and dandy.
Quote
I lost £10,000 not $10,000 and it hurt (past tense).  I pick up the pieces and move forward undeterred.  I believe in this technology and have no issues with losing more than I can afford on my next gamble with the expectation that I'll dine guests on my yatch and bore them senseless with stories of how the bitcoin community were once honoured by Volcanic Eruptor's tantrums.  Grin

No! You lost 10k pounds and you kept/keep defending the guy that made you lose that money instead of hunting him down.

You believe in the technology, but you want other people to dedicate their time and resources just so you can be on a yacht instead of trying to participate. It's the "lottery" mindset which brings nothing to the table and which allows scumbags like Ken to exist.

H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622998.0
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February 20, 2015, 05:10:54 PM
 #5263

^very well put. its funny-bordering-on-sad that zumzero is still hanging around trying to act like some misunderstood champion of those who were shafted by ken, when virtually the exact opposite was true up until maybe a month ago.

I lost maybe 10% (~0.25BTC) of what i invested in ACTM, and bailed out when i saw all the signs of failure weeks before the cryptsy problems and the total loss of share value. All the signs were there that it would fail:
- no real proof for most of ken/ACTM claims
- hashrate (when it was at a known address/site) was sporadic, often offline or below the expected value
- hardware wasnt shipping on time or at all
- it took well over a month to finally get an admission that the hardware ken was buying to deploy and sell was actually hashfast liquidation parts
- the DC built with hashfast equipment took weeks longer to deploy then promised, and failed to reach a single goal (originally wasnt 170TH promised, and the highest hashrate ever achieved was ~70TH?)

my guess is that it was a sham from the start. If it worked, ken would have been a hero, maybe paid back returns, and walked away rich. Instead, nothing ken did worked out for shareholders bagholders, and theres almost nothing happening to him other than a court process which has dragged out for months already without anythin useful coming of it.

seriously, is shawn haggardy of the MSD even a real person? its hard to believe the real MSD wouldn't have stepped in and frozen assets at this point, possibly laid charges. Instead, ken is likely hanging out in big houses and nice cars with the guys from BFL and GAW

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February 20, 2015, 05:42:47 PM
Last edit: February 22, 2015, 02:44:23 PM by gogxmagog
 #5264

I've been wondering if Shawn Hagerty is a real person too

EDIT- phoning him Monday...if he sounds Scottish i will hang up

ooeer action comix and up yr arsenal
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February 24, 2015, 10:14:21 PM
 #5265

I haven't seen this talked about here:

http://www.sos.mo.gov/securities/orders/AP-14-09b.pdf
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February 24, 2015, 11:51:23 PM
 #5266

I haven't seen this talked about here:

http://www.sos.mo.gov/securities/orders/AP-14-09b.pdf


what's the TL;DR?
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February 25, 2015, 12:17:02 AM
 #5267


Part 1:
Ken didnt show up for several court appearances, his counsel claimed they went 6 weeks without contact from him, court determines he failed to show up for either his interrogatories or depositions, rspondants fail to show up several more times, court charged the respondants for the missed court dates and attourney fees worth at least $1115 as on Janruary 2nd.

Part 2:
describes ken and his relation to AMC/VMC/etc companies and thier operation out of missouri, he never sought approval to register or sell securities, he never registered as an agent w/ the state. Explains bitcoin/mining, bitcoin stocks, VMC stocks/offerings, and claims that ken made publicly (on the forums or websites) including gems like:

Quote
a. VMC shares were trading on Bitfunder and BTCT;
b. shareholders “will receive 100% of the monthly profits after all expenses [are
deducted] until the total dividends paid is equal to .0005 BTC per share;”
c. investors will “see big benefits when [VMC] develops” its own Application
Specific Integration Circuit (“ASIC”) chip and “VMC creates its Fast-Hash series
of Bitcoin Mining machines;”
d. the “Net Estimated ROI” (i.e., return on investment) for the VMC Stock could be
“2,812% [in] 24 months;” and
e. the “Net Estimated ROI” on the future issuance of VMC Stock could be “562%
[in] 24 months.”

a. VMC would merge into AMC Belize;
b. in 2013, VMC had sold mining equipment in excess of $6,000,000;
c. shares of AMC Belize Stock were trading on Bitfunder, BTCT, and
CryptoStocks;
d. investors could receive “100% return” from the “global profits” of AMC Belize;
e. investors have “the privilege of getting all profits until [a dividend of] 0.0025
BTC/share is paid;” and
f. investors could self-certify their “accredited investor status” by “creating an
account on the virtual stock exchange and using Bitcoins to purchase the [AMC
Belize Stock].”

a. VMC Stock could be exchanged on Bitfunder and BTCT;

b. early investors would be given “a priority in getting back 100% return of their
investment;” and
c. early investors would have the privilege of “getting all profits” until a dividend of
0.0025 Bitcoin per share was given.

ken collected ~4200,000 worth of bitcoins for stocks.

in addition is focus on amc belize shares which had poor risk disclosure among other shady features or lack thereof.


Quote
D. Omissions and Misstatements
46. VMC, AMC Belize, and/or K. Slaughter failed to disclose to investors and potential
investors, among other things, the following:
a. that K. Slaughter was not registered or exempt from registration as an agent in the
State of Missouri;

3
 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=252531.0 8
b. that shares sold were not registered or exempt from registration in the State of
Missouri;
c. that K. Slaughter and his previous company, Active Internet Communications,
Inc., had complaints that prepaid services were not rendered; and/or
d. that there were risks associated with using a virtual currency to transact business
including, but not limited to, the following:
i. virtual currencies are not backed by a central bank and are not insured;
ii. virtual currencies can be hacked or stolen with little or no recourse;
iii. there is no way to reverse a virtual currency transaction;
iv. virtual currencies are highly volatile;
v. this volatility may greatly reduce the funds raised in a securities offering
tied to these currencies and make financial projections difficult;
vi. securities offerings that are tied to virtual currencies may be highly
dependent upon the growth and acceptance of the virtual currency market;
and/or
vii. that the liquidity of virtual currencies may be highly dependent upon the
growth and acceptance of the virtual currency market.
47. VMC, AMC Belize, and/or K. Slaughter misrepresented to investors and potential
investors, that Bitcoin industry was “highly-regulated” at both State and Federal levels.


TLDR is limited from here to the conclusion - theres about 10 pages i dont cover


Final Orders:
-rules were violated
- profits created by any violations will be seized
-Ken pays $10,000 civil penalty
- both VMC and AMC pay $1000 civil penalty each
- all respondants pay $10,000 civil penalty each
- all respindants jointly pay $1,115.15 fees for failures to attend
- respondants pay all thier own attourney costs and fees






TLDR; ken, AMC, and VMC all owe significant penalties and will have any profits seized. Theres no information regarding how/when the penalties will be collected, or if those he scammed will be able to place claims.


either way, ken's scamming caught up to him, and will result in bankruptcy (how much does he have buried away to cover this? probably not enough) and permenantly puts his companies out of business. either that, or he flees the state

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February 25, 2015, 07:32:47 PM
Last edit: February 27, 2015, 12:44:58 AM by knybe
 #5268

thanks klondike_bar, very much appreciated.
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February 26, 2015, 01:09:22 AM
Last edit: February 26, 2015, 09:14:39 AM by gogxmagog
 #5269

By the looks of things Ken has left the state a while ago. Not even talking to his council, that's a "cut bait and run" move right there.
How does this work out in terms of American law? When does his constant negligence become a federal problem? If he's hiding in Panama then what? I hear it's a lovely place to retire with even far less than one million usd, he seems old enough to give up and enjoy our hard earned btc lying in the sun.
Does Panama have extradition treaties with the USA?
I know there are bounty hunters who will travel down south to nab their prey, I'd love to see Kenny in chains.

Seems
Like Ken owns a 3 bedroom house at 1951 south oak grove in Springfield Missouri. It's the address registered to AMC in that MSD document. It's kind of a pos but estimated at around 100k.
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February 26, 2015, 11:34:51 PM
 #5270

Thanks for the update!

Prepare to enter a world of stress
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February 27, 2015, 10:06:42 PM
 #5271

Stubbing out progress where seeds are sown
Killing off anything that's not quite known
Sitting around in a nice safe home
Waiting for the witch hunt

Idle plans for the idol rich
Knitting the economy, not dropping a stitch
Destroying anything that doesn't quite fit
Waiting for the witch hunt

Still living with the english fear
Waiting for the witch hunt here
Still living with the english fear
Waiting for the witch hunt here

Changing your course for another way
You better stop that or be willing to pay
Never mind son, you'll come around some day
Under pressure from the witch hunt

http://youtu.be/9CF6us3_vVc

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February 27, 2015, 11:13:09 PM
Last edit: February 27, 2015, 11:34:31 PM by zumzero
 #5272

Alright pop pickers, here's another track from your favourite British non-gangsta band, The Mob.

"I wish I could.... [insert appropriate verb for eroding anothers belief system]"

E to C, all the way.

http://youtu.be/wWeJa9H8u54

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February 28, 2015, 12:22:05 AM
Last edit: February 28, 2015, 01:03:11 AM by zumzero
 #5273

I'm not going to sit idly by and watch you lot rewrite the history books.  No, not a chance.  The sad reality is that these detractors are the same ones who have had it in for this project since day one (excluding those of you who were genuine investors and have a legitimate beef with kslaughter and his shortcomings) and are either sad fucks who get an ego boost from upping their post count on this monstrosity of a forum and likely never owned shares or are simply incapable of free thought and jump on the back of like-minded morons who keep the cycle of hatred going.  Pft!

To the others, get over yourselves and accept you lost your money by investing in a high risk business which did not succeed.  Want a few dimes back by watching Ken getting done for operating 'shady' securities, be my guest, but understand your contradiction as an alleged Bitcoin enthusiast.

We don't know the full history so there is nothing to rewrite. All we know is what Ken has told us, and the posts from Bar's investigation efforts which unfortunately did not expose Ken's real intentions. Thank you for trying Bar, of all the investors, you were the best hope of discovering Kens intentions albeit too late for many of us to do anything about it had we found out at the time. Still thank you for at least trying.  

I really cannot believe you are still defending this, his lawyer dropped him. Do you think that was because Ken only failed at the business? I doubt it, a lawyer would likely stay around for the trial if thats the case. He either found something that made him give up, Ken ran out of funds, or realized that working with Ken was like working with a hand tied behind his back since Ken was not being forthcoming with all the information he needed. If a lawyer you hired drops you thats a really really bad sign.

I would love to believe this was just a failed business, but given how this has played out so far it seems very very unlikely and I really doubt any BTC will be returned to any shareholder.

And finally, to those that understand what went on, well, they've all left and I'm here to be their voice.   Wink

Really? you represent those who just put their heads into the sand and are screaming lalalalalala it was not a scam! You are thinking if it was a scam then I really screwed up? Well guess what, all of us that invested in this did screw up. We made a bad investment decision and we have to deal with the consequences. Trying to convince yourself and others that this was not a scam to make yourself feel better is not going to allow you to learn from your mistakes and move on. If anything this was a lesson in how to spot a scam even when things seem to be legit. I lost about $3k on this but I've learned some valuable lessons I would not have without following and investing in this venture.

Finally, a level headed post from a genuine person. To start, my comment on the "re-writing of history books" was to mean that left unapposed, and had I have left this thread, anything said by any of the detractors would be accepted as gospel and would remain unchallenged and thus feed the frenzy of hatred.  I do not think that is fair.  There are two sides to every coin and I therefor feel obliged to offer the opposing view whether I agree with it or not.

If a lawyer drops you perhaps its because you have not honoured your part of the agreement, but that doesn't imply a guilty verdict and anyone who thinks differently is likely in favour of the death penalty. Ken is, and we'll all agree, very unreliable.  He'll stick his head in the sand as a defence mechanism when the reality of his situation finally dawns upon him.  Ken's safe mode was denial and was apparent throughout the history of AMC/VMC/ActM and was something I have always been accutely aware of.  I am speaking in terms of his inability to man up and face his shareholders rather than his quite admirable tenasity as a buisness man.  And here is the crux.  Ken was brilliant in someways and totally inept in others.  Was there not talk of a condition that might explain a lot?  Asperger syndrome perhaps?

Again, I'll say this, Ken did not premeditate a scam.  I believe that a 'scam' can only be a scam if it is premeditated and certainly do not adhere to the false belief that a scam can exist as a result of an outcome. In order to prove this was a scam you would need to provide evidence to suggest that Ken had planned for this outcome rather than the outcome being as a result of a comedy of errors.  Do that and I'm on your side.  I have been wrong before and I will be wrong again, but as a numbers man I'm feeling rather sure.

How do we not know that the guy has gone off grid because he's depressed and suicidal?  We dont.  We owe it to ourselves to be decent human beings and remove the blinkered constraints placed upon us since birth, by our parents, our peers and the machine.

http://youtu.be/wWeJa9H8u54

What to gain from persecuting the common man?

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February 28, 2015, 01:53:58 AM
Last edit: February 28, 2015, 02:53:51 AM by zumzero
 #5274

Here's a cracker for the newley apponted The Mob fans.  The Cold War 80's paranoia infiltrated every household and gave birth to such bands.  Nuclear winter was a reality.  Fear, strikes and civil unrest were the norm.  That was 30 years ago and our present leaders have perfected control of the masses through fear ever since.

I have nothing on topic to say, just want an excuse to play "No Doves Fly Here".  Sharing is in my nature although I'm not convinced some of you even deserve this treat..

http://youtu.be/bQHeLUkk6xI

The sky is empty and it's turning different shades of colour,

It never did before and we never asked for war.

My mind is empty and my body different shapes of torture,

It never was before and we never asked for war.

No-one is moving and no doves fly here,

No-one is thinking and no doves fly here,

No-one remembers beyond all this fear,


No doves fly here


The buildings are empty and the countryside is wasteland,

It never was before and we never asked for war.

The playgrounds are empty and the children limbless corpses,

They never were before and they never asked for war.

No-one is moving and no doves fly here,

No-one is thinking and no doves fly here,

No-one remembers beyond all this

Fear,


No doves fly here

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February 28, 2015, 05:05:15 AM
 #5275

zumzero...loses 10k pounds, supports the one that stole his money and comes here to post retard shit. Only in Bitcoin land.

H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622998.0
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February 28, 2015, 03:18:14 PM
 #5276

He's a lot easier to listen to "ignored"
Nice to hear he lost a few pounds though. He fat piece of shit.
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February 28, 2015, 04:48:42 PM
Last edit: February 28, 2015, 05:02:57 PM by zumzero
 #5277

This is my thread you daft cunts so fuck off and go start your own somewhere else.  Tongue

He's a lot easier to listen to "ignored"
Nice to hear he lost a few pounds though. He is a fat piece of shit.

FIFY

zumzero...loses 10k pounds, supports the one that stole his money and comes here to post retard shit. Only in Bitcoin land.

No-one stole my money.  I invested in a high risk, high reward tech startup which did not succeed.  I did not invest more than I could afford to lose and I sleep well at night because of that.  I continue to invest in this space and am confident the future is peaches and cream all the way.

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February 28, 2015, 05:16:36 PM
 #5278

No-one stole my money.  I invested in a high risk, high no reward tech startup scam which did not succeed.
FIFY

Or perhaps is should be, "No-one stole my money. I am Ken."
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February 28, 2015, 05:26:03 PM
 #5279

zumzero...loses 10k pounds, supports the one that stole his money and comes here to post retard shit. Only in Bitcoin land.

No-one stole my money.  I invested in a high risk, high reward tech startup which did not succeed.  I did not invest more than I could afford to lose and I sleep well at night because of that.  I continue to invest in this space and am confident the future is peaches and cream all the way.

Show me a single hard proof that Ken hasn't scammed you or that he actually tried to create his own ASIC chip. Just one proof. Solid! Please. If you do not have that then those money were stolen.

H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622998.0
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February 28, 2015, 09:34:14 PM
 #5280

No-one stole my money.  I invested in a high risk, high no reward tech startup scam which did not succeed.
FIFY

Or perhaps is should be, "No-one stole my money. I am Ken."

You got me.  I am Ken.  Huh

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