Theymos is taking illegal ads from a ponzi scheme - MakeBtc.org

[apsvinet]

I think it is pretty funny how people are defending the right of this forum to promote fraud and mislead people.  Given the fact that fraud, hacking, and ponzis are already systematic in bitcoin - you'd think people wouldn't want to encourage them.

It's all fine and good until you lose your own money - just see all the people who lost money on MtGox.

it's hardly misleading or fraudulent when the ad clearly states it's a ponzi.

fraud: Any act of deception carried out for the purpose of unfair, undeserved and/or unlawful gain.

no deception here

How can you be stupid enough to invest in a ponzi and then blame whoever linked it for your stupidity? What the hell.

[1714038161]

1714038161

[1714038161]

1714038161

[1714038161]

1714038161

[1714038161]

1714038161

[Silverspoon]

-Bitcoin?  Isn't that the weird money they use it fo drugz and shit?
-No way bro, that's totally last year.  It's all srs and legit nao.  They use it to Ponzi!

Not only is advertising Ponzi schemes horrible PR for Bitcoin, it's also illegal for an American operating from American soil.

[apsvinet]

-Bitcoin?  Isn't it the weird money they use it for drugz and shit?
-No way bro, that's totally last year.  It's all srs and legit nao.  They use it to Ponzi!

Not only is advertising Ponzi schemes horrible PR for Bitcoin, it's also illegal for an American operating from American soil.

You had to make a new account to post this? Psch.
If you don't like it, get out. Simple as that. Bitcoin
already has a 'bad reputation' in mainstream media
cause people connect it to illegal actions.

[yatsey87]

-Bitcoin?  Isn't that the weird money they use it fo drugz and shit?
-No way bro, that's totally last year.  It's all srs and legit nao.  They use it to Ponzi!

Not only is advertising Ponzi schemes horrible PR for Bitcoin, it's also illegal for an American operating from American soil.

Ponzis and scams will exist as long as Bitcoin does. With that being said I don't think this site should promote them.

[Korbman]

I'm all for viewing banner advertisements to support the forum, but the moment I saw a known Ponzi scheme was being advertised was the moment I disabled ads. Regardless of the common libertarian and caveat emptor ideals on this forum, it's still concerning that anything can be advertised so long as Theymos is paid. At the very least, it's bad PR for the forums.

So with this on the table, I've got a question:
If a person were to create a piece of malware that does a drive-by install by clicking on a link, would they be able to advertise that link so long as they put in the disclaimer "Clicking on this link gives you malware"? If not, why not?

[apsvinet]

I'm all for viewing banner advertisements to support the forum, but the moment I saw a known Ponzi scheme was being advertised was the moment I disabled ads. Regardless of the common libertarian and caveat emptor ideals on this forum, it's still concerning that anything can be advertised so long as Theymos is paid. At the very least, it's bad PR for the forums.

So with this on the table, I've got a question:
If a person were to create a piece of malware that does a drive-by install by clicking on a link, would they be able to advertise that link so long as they put in the disclaimer "Clicking on this link gives you malware"? If not, why not?

I absolutely think they would have every right to advertise it with a disclaimer.
Without one? No way. But if you're stupid enough to click it, it's your fault.
They're not the ones giving you the virus, your stupidity is.

[Silverspoon]

-Bitcoin?  Isn't it the weird money they use it for drugz and shit?
-No way bro, that's totally last year.  It's all srs and legit nao.  They use it to Ponzi!

Not only is advertising Ponzi schemes horrible PR for Bitcoin, it's also illegal for an American operating from American soil.

You had to make a new account to post this? Psch.
If you don't like it, get out. Simple as that. Bitcoin
already has a 'bad reputation' in mainstream media
cause people connect it to illegal actions.

Oic.  If I don't like people shitting up Bitcoin, I shoud stfu, walk away, and let the shittening continue?
Lol no.

*Try to understand that it's not just my coin that gets lousy press because of this stupidity.  The same press hurts your coin too.  The more bad press, the more excuses for regulators to jump in and regulate the fuck out of us.  I'm not here to stop people from pulling cons, all I'm asking is we take down the billboards that advertise those cons.

[apsvinet]

-Bitcoin?  Isn't it the weird money they use it for drugz and shit?
-No way bro, that's totally last year.  It's all srs and legit nao.  They use it to Ponzi!

Not only is advertising Ponzi schemes horrible PR for Bitcoin, it's also illegal for an American operating from American soil.

You had to make a new account to post this? Psch.
If you don't like it, get out. Simple as that. Bitcoin
already has a 'bad reputation' in mainstream media
cause people connect it to illegal actions.

Oic.  If I don't like people shitting up Bitcoin, I shoud stfu, walk away, and let the shittening continue?
Lol no.

*Try to understand that it's not just my coin that gets lousy press because of this stupidity.  The same press hurts your coin too.  The more bad press, the more excuses for regulators to jump in and regulate the fuck out of us.  I'm not here to stop people from pulling cons, all I'm asking is we take down the billboards that advertise those cons.

The day mainstream media writes about bitcointalk, and that it's advertising ponzis…
I don't see that day within the nearest 5 years, to say the least.
There are some reports about bitcoins in mainstream media at the moment, but
it's always outdated / half-wrong fact, and every single article connects
bitcoins to drug trade.
When we reach a point when mainstream media cares about a bitcoin ponzi or a
bitcoin forum, bitcoins will already have passed the stage of being just an internet
currency for a small % of the world.

[Silverspoon]

TL;DR:
Mainstream press already bashes Bitcoin, so let's make sure the bashing's justified -- give them real facts!
And let's make sure it's something really pathetic and embarrassing, like
"We're not greedy idiots, we built a closed economy!  We sell Ponzi schemes.  To each other!"

[Korbman]

So with this on the table, I've got a question:
If a person were to create a piece of malware that does a drive-by install by clicking on a link, would they be able to advertise that link so long as they put in the disclaimer "Clicking on this link gives you malware"? If not, why not?

I absolutely think they would have every right to advertise it with a disclaimer.

While I appreciate your opinion, I'm actually looking for answers from someone who has a deeper understanding of how advertisements are chosen (e.g. moderators).

Without one? No way. But if you're stupid enough to click it, it's your fault.
They're not the ones giving you the virus, your stupidity is.

Technically only partially true. Their assistance promoting the malware may constitute aiding and abetting in known criminal activity.

[apsvinet]

So with this on the table, I've got a question:
If a person were to create a piece of malware that does a drive-by install by clicking on a link, would they be able to advertise that link so long as they put in the disclaimer "Clicking on this link gives you malware"? If not, why not?

I absolutely think they would have every right to advertise it with a disclaimer.

While I appreciate your opinion, I'm actually looking for answers from someone who has a deeper understanding of how advertisements are chosen (e.g. moderators).

Without one? No way. But if you're stupid enough to click it, it's your fault.
They're not the ones giving you the virus, your stupidity is.

Technically only partially true. Their assistance promoting the malware may constitute aiding and abetting in known criminal activity.

Aha, I read your question a bit wrong, I thought you wanted public opinions on if it was morally right to have that as an advertisement, rather than an actual question to the people in charge if they would allow it. My bad.

[apsvinet]

TL;DR:
Mainstream press already bashes Bitcoin, so let's make sure the bashing's justified -- give them real facts!
And let's make sure it's something really pathetic and embarrassing, like
"We're not greedy idiots, we built a closed economy!  We sell Ponzi schemes.  To each other!"

Wow, how much money did you lose to a ponzi mate? You're in denial about your own responsibility.
There are people buying drugs with US dollars as well as there are people buying drugs with BTC, the difference is that mainstream media always jumps to the conclusion that things they don't understand are dangerous. Illegal or not, I'm 100% sure ponzi schemes exists with 'real currency' investments, even where they are in fact illegal. Does that say USD are dangerous and are given a bad reputation? No.

[01BTC10]

This forum ban blackmarkets advertisement or even link posting. Why would it allows ponzi schemes? If the forum really wants to abide to libertarian philosophy then it should allow blackmarkets as well. Some of those drugs and weapons might even be legal in some jurisdiction.

[RiverBoatBTC]

Technically only partially true. Their assistance promoting the malware may constitute aiding and abetting in known criminal activity.

The test of aiding and abetting for SEC
To establish aiding and abetting liability, the SEC must show the existence of a securities law violation by the primary party, knowledge of this violation on the part of the aider and abettor, and “substantial assistance” by the aider and abettor in the achievement of the primary violation.

Does advertising ponzi's allow for "substantial assistance"?

What do you think the SEC would say about that?

[Silverspoon]

TL;DR:
Mainstream press already bashes Bitcoin, so let's make sure the bashing's justified -- give them real facts!
And let's make sure it's something really pathetic and embarrassing, like
"We're not greedy idiots, we built a closed economy!  We sell Ponzi schemes.  To each other!"

Wow, how much money did you lose to a ponzi mate? You're in denial about your own responsibility.
There are people buying drugs with US dollars as well as there are people buying drugs with BTC, the difference is that mainstream media always jumps to the conclusion that things they don't understand are dangerous. Illegal or not, I'm 100% sure ponzi schemes exists with 'real currency' investments, even where they are in fact illegal. Does that say USD are dangerous and are given a bad reputation? No.

I have lost exactly zero coins to Ponzis.  I also have never been raped, but (and you might find this odd) I'm against promoting rape on this forum.

No, Ponzis aren't unique to Bitcoin.  But if you must ape degenerate stuff from the fiat world, please do so quietly.  Idiots promoting their petty crimez shit things up for everyone using Bitcoin, not just you.

[malevolent]

This forum ban blackmarkets advertisement or even link posting. Why would it allows ponzi schemes? If the forum really wants to abide to libertarian philosophy then it should allow blackmarkets as well. Some of those drugs and weapons might even be legal in some jurisdiction.

You can sell whatever you want as long as it's legal in the buyer's and the seller's country.

[Silverspoon]

...
it's hardly misleading or fraudulent when the ad clearly states it's a ponzi.
...

...and now we gots the new, improved disclaimer:

[Stunna]

...
it's hardly misleading or fraudulent when the ad clearly states it's a ponzi.
...

...and now we gots the new, improved disclaimer:

I think it's a bit ridiculous that you'd put that disclaimer rather than simply remove the ad. Just add a few lines to terms of conditions of the advertisement auctions to deal with situations like this.

[SaltySpitoon]

Its also actually illegal to wear masks in public in a lot of countries. Shall we ban people selling masks in order to preserve Bitcoin's good name? Some laws are stupid and vary from place to place. If you are in the U.S or another country where ponzi schemes are illegal, don't use them. If you are in Zimbobwe, the Congo, or a few other assorted countries where no one cares about ponzi schemes, have at it. The forums doesn't restrict content just because its illegal or "bad" in someone's jurisdiction, Bitcoin is a global project, it would be stupid to limit it based on individual country's jurisdictions. If you want to obey your country's laws, great. Don't expect people not in your country to also respect those laws.

[flower1024]

Its also actually illegal to wear masks in public in a lot of countries. Shall we ban people selling masks in order to preserve Bitcoin's good name? Some laws are stupid and vary from place to place. If you are in the U.S or another country where ponzi schemes are illegal, don't use them. If you are in Zimbobwe, the Congo, or a few other assorted countries where no one cares about ponzi schemes, have at it. The forums doesn't restrict content just because its illegal or "bad" in someone's jurisdiction, Bitcoin is a global project, it would be stupid to limit it based on individual country's jurisdictions. If you want to obey your country's laws, great. Don't expect people not in your country to also respect those laws.

as most countries forbid advertising of illegal stuff (eg weed, ponzis) it is also important where the bitcointalk server resides

but i do totally agree with you about self-responsability