Theymos is taking illegal ads from a ponzi scheme - MakeBtc.org

[alani123]

No cental authority remember?

Who said that ponzi scemes run by bitcoin are illegal? 

[flower1024]

No cental authority remember?

Who said that ponzi scemes run by bitcoin are illegal? 

at least the forum does have enough money, so i'd be interested to see the outcome if anyone tries suing them

[Silverspoon]

@SaltySpitoon
I don't know if Ponzi schemes are legal in Congo or Zimbabwe, and I doubt you do, either.  This sort of bottom-scraping mentality, "It might be legal somewhere, so Bitcoin's all over that shit" is not the image I wish to project, how about you?

Accepting Ponzi ads on a pro-Bitcoin forum is stupid in just about every way.  Just weigh the extra bitcoins the ads bring (which this forum needs like a lardass needs another bucket of KFC) against the potential for negative attention -- from the press, various TLAs, and the forum's own members.  Possibly running afoul of laws while making us look retarded is just the icing on the cake.

[SaltySpitoon]

@SaltySpitoon
I don't know if Ponzi schemes are legal in Congo or Zimbabwe, and I doubt you do, either.  This sort of bottom-scraping mentality, "It might be legal somewhere, so Bitcoin's all over that shit" is not the image I wish to project, how about you?

Accepting Ponzi ads on a pro-Bitcoin forum is stupid in just about every way.  Just weigh the extra bitcoins the ads bring (which this forum needs like a lardass needs another bucket of KFC) against the potential for negative attention -- from the press, various TLAs, and the forum's own members.  Potentially running afoul of laws while making us look retarded is just the icing on the cake.

They are (google). The image I don't want to project is that we must take all of the laws of every country and become so restricted that Bitcoins can't be used for anything. I consider Ponzi schemes to be gambling. Online gambling is illegal in a ton of countries too, so should we ban all gambling sites from advertising as well? I resent it when government regulations place restrictions to "protect" me because I'm too stupid to make my own decisions. It is up to the users to make sure what they are doing isn't illegal in their own jurisdiction if they care, it is up to the users to do adequet research to make sure that their odds of winning in the ponzi scheme are on par with their expectations, and we shouldn't have to filter content for people because they aren't smart enough to make their own decisions. If you don't like ponzis, don't use them, if you don't like gambling, don't use them, if you don't like smoking/drinking, don't use those substances, but why disallow content that others may want to see/use just because some don't wish to? If you make the choice not to participate in ponzis, great. But what if I want to participate in ponzis? (I don't, I don't like gambling at all) but why should I say that you cant?


(Ponzi falls under this category)

[theMiracle]

Not sure what you wish to suggest by posting a list of countries where Ponzis are illegal -- does it even claim to be an exhaustive list?*
If you really wish to get down into the mud, I'll point out that "..the act of buying, selling, or offering to sell something is enough to be considered transacting business and to convey jurisdiction."
 /backyard lawyering.

If you feel that refusing to advertise a product you don't agree with is a form of censorship, that's simply absurd.  Theymos is free to accept or deny any ad.  Forbes, for instance, does not advertise giant dildos, which are undeniably more legal than Ponzis.   Do you consider that odd?

*edit: does the word "including" give you a hint?

[alani123]

at least the forum does have enough money, so i'd be interested to see the outcome if anyone tries suing them

The forum has MORE than enough money. But I'm still grateful those guys are still runing the forum no matter what. But maybe, I say maybe they should put some more effort on protecting the forum users. This is the heard of your community, people come here to learn. Ponzi sceme ads won't help.

[SaltySpitoon]

Not sure what you wish to suggest by posting a list of countries where Ponzis are illegal -- does it even claim to be an exhaustive list?*
If you really wish to get down into the mud, I'll point out that "..the act of buying, selling, or offering to sell something is enough to be considered transacting business and to convey jurisdiction."
 /backyard lawyering.

If you feel that refusing to advertise a product you don't agree with is a form of censorship, that's simply absurd.  Theymos is free to accept or deny any ad.  Forbes, for instance, does not advertise giant dildos, which are undeniably more legal than Ponzis.   Do you consider that odd?

*edit: does the word "including" give you a hint?

Theymos however will advertise giant dildos, however just not direct links to nsfw sites. My point is, if we take the accumulation of laws from everywhere and put them all on here to protect every single user within their own jurisdictions, this will be a sad and incredibly regulated place. I'd rather not step in that direction. I'd rather people took personal responsibility, and didn't partake in ponzi schemes if they are illegal in their own jurisdiction or if they just dont wish to use them, and not limit those that can or want to. 

[RiverBoatBTC]

So your telling me he will not advertise porn but he will sell rubber shlongs? WTF lol
I am not understanding this what makes porn non acceptable but a ponzi ok?
azzz backwards

[SaltySpitoon]

So your telling me he will not advertise porn but he will sell rubber shlongs? WTF lol
I am not understanding this what makes porn non acceptable but a ponzi ok?
azzz backwards

Porn is acceptable, it just wont be directly linked.

Ads may not link directly to any NSFW page.

Also, I did not add the italics, that is in every advertising auction thread.

I still fail to see the difference between a ponzi and any other gambling site? Statistically everyone will lose (applies to gambling and ponzis), Lucky players stand to gain money, which is why they play (applies to both), the similarities are countless. What is wrong with a ponzi, as long as the site operators tell you its a ponzi, so you can weigh your chances fairly, in the same way that you can with a dice or card game site?

Again, for the record, I don't use any gambling sites as I'm not the gambling sort. I'm a bit too impulsive for my own good to gamble. I just don't see why people shouldn't use ponzis if they wish to? If you are getting tricked into a ponzi scheme, like the Pirate Passthrough, thats one thing, but with the name Ponzi right in the advertisment, no one is going to end up putting money into it that doesn't know that its a ponzi scheme.

[theMiracle]

So your telling me he will not advertise porn but he will sell rubber shlongs? WTF lol
I am not understanding this what makes porn non acceptable but a ponzi ok?
azzz backwards

Porn is acceptable, it just wont be directly linked.
...

So Theymos is a bit of a prude, huh?  No direct links to pr0nz, but direct links to Ponzis?  Can't be too careful about accidently titties, I guess...

BTW, have you read press coverage on Bitcoin lately?  We're the butt of every joke, even techies like Ars and Virge stop just short of finishing Bitcoin articles with or "ROLF!"
As revolting as this is to watch, I'm mainly concerned with the fallout from all of this "muh freedomz to Ponzi muh friends" stuff.  I'm not trying to impinge on what consenting adults do to each other, no matter how freakishly repulsive -- even if that happens to be exploiting each other's greed and stupidity with Ponzi schemes.

[theymos]

I think it's a bit ridiculous that you'd put that disclaimer rather than simply remove the ad. Just add a few lines to terms of conditions of the advertisement auctions to deal with situations like this.

If I knew for sure that it was a scam, I would have removed it. But I wasn't sure in this case, and in fact it turned out that the site was not a scam (for now).

[nrd525]

How do you know that it isn't a scam? 

They don't call themselves a gambling website.
And they have no business model for making money. 

[EFS]

How do you know that it isn't a scam?

How do you know that it is a scam?

[nrd525]

How to Identify a Ponzi
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=100696.0

And the fact that I'll do an escrowed bet on it being a scam.  I'm not rich, but I'd do 1 BTC at 50/50 odds on it being proven a scam within 3 years.

[Korbman]

If I knew for sure that it was a scam, I would have removed it. But I wasn't sure in this case, and in fact it turned out that the site was not a scam.

[E.exchanger]

They can display any add on the forum as far as its paying them well and is not illegal or related to drugs lol BTW should notice this, Iam putting in quotes

"Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction."

[EFS]

If ponzi scheme is illegal in everywhere, why are there a lot of ponzi threads on Gambling board? Either ban all ponzi threads and ads or allow them. If threads are allowed, ads should be allowed too.

[nrd525]

If the website clearly stated that it was a gambling website, I'd have no problems with it.

But as it claims to be an investment website, I think they are engaged in misleading people and fraud.   This is very obvious when they claim that the project will exist as long as bitcoin is used for transactions. They're making a promise they do not intend to keep.  Their intention is to defraud people of money under false pretenses.

[Silverspoon]

If ponzi scheme is illegal in everywhere, why are there a lot of ponzi threads on Gambling board? Either ban all ponzi threads and ads or allow them. If threads are allowed, ads should be allowed too.

There are things that people try not to do, without needing laws to specifically prohibit them.  Farting at the theater is one such thing.  Advertising Ponzis is another.  I swear, this is like arguing with a 4-year-old.

[apsvinet]

If ponzi scheme is illegal in everywhere, why are there a lot of ponzi threads on Gambling board? Either ban all ponzi threads and ads or allow them. If threads are allowed, ads should be allowed too.

There are things that people try not to do, without needing laws to specifically prohibit them.  Farting at the theater is one such thing.  Advertising Ponzis is another.  I swear, this is like arguing with a 4-year-old.

Yeah, I absolutely feel like I'm arguing with a 4 year old when I'm replying
to your endless hate posts. Nothing wrong has been done here, if you don't
like it, go somewhere else. That's how life works. Nobody is forcing you to
use a forum that's advertising something you dislike.