SolidCoin 2 Release - Monday 10th October 23:35 UTC

[Explodicle]

I can confirm that sd has solid evidence about what he is telling.
Unfortunately, it is closed source at the moment, so you get to take my word on this one.

Cool, I have some hard evidence also. Take a look at the new SolidCoin v2.0 interface and see the improvements it has to make things easier for everyone. Now you can just tell your mother or sister to download one thing and in two clicks she is mining or sending money to others. Neat isn't it.

That's evidence of a feature-rich client, but not evidence of a secure client.

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[CoinHunter]

CoinHunter just failed bigtime, trying to post under sockpuppet but accidently as himself:

Err why wouldn't I want to post that as me? Haha, put a tinfoil hat on.

You always talk about yourself in third person?

You just failed by posting under your own account while wanting to post under one of your sockpuppet's account.
You made a fool of yourself, again.

If you could read, you would see I mixed both third and first person together. If it was a so called sock puppet account why would I do that? Oh snap I was so careful up to this point to not mix my first and third persons.  

Check out the new SolidCoin send dialog with it's fee calculation.

[MaGNeT]

CoinHunter just failed bigtime, trying to post under sockpuppet but accidently as himself:

Err why wouldn't I want to post that as me? Haha, put a tinfoil hat on.

You always talk about yourself in third person?

You just failed by posting under your own account while wanting to post under one of your sockpuppet's account.
You made a fool of yourself, again.

If you could read, you would see I mixed both third and first person together. If it was a so called sock puppet account why would I do that? Oh snap I was so careful up to this point to not mix my first and third persons.  

Some Sherlock already find out you are bulanula (among others).
Your mistake revealed this.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Now you can just tell your mother or sister to download one thing and in two clicks she is mining or sending money to others. Neat isn't it.

And 10% of what they mine goes to you.  Funny how that works.

The funniest part is consumers don't give a crap about mining/hashing.  Not everyone using Visa for example wants to run a Visa processing node.  There is no need for anyone's mother or sister to become a miner.  A crypto-currency can have its hashing power sufficiently decentralized even if only 1% are providing the network power.

Of course if your goal isn't to develop a functional economy and instead to simply collect as much as you can via your 10% tax well then you want everyone and their mother mining 24/7.  More miners = more skimmed off the top.

[freequant]

Those who absolutely demand source code before they run anything will have to wait a few more days for v2.01 or v2.02.

Why not release v2.00?
Anything questionnable in it that you plan to remove in v2.01 or 2.02?

[spndr7]

Of all cryptocurrencies SC 2 have been undoubtedly the most user friendly inbuilt miner for any newbies to p2p currency world.

[sd]

Of course there is and Coinhunter/Bulanula/Viperjbm knows he has no choice but to release the code now as it is being universally rejected by vendors and businesses, so clean out as much as possible of the trojans, triggers,etc....and release a sanitized version.

CH must really believe people are stupid.

CH knows people are stupid. Sad as it is a lot of them are. His mistake was to abuse BitCoin users who are mostly technically literate.

CH wants the kind of people who spend a fortune on premium gold-plated HDMI cables to get a better color balance on their TV. Those kind of people are not going to be cryptocurrency early adopters.

[sd]

Yep, I realized that very early on in SC1 that Coinhunter seemed to forget more than 90% of his entire user base was above average technical savvy people.

I am even more stunned to say the least that after the grand failure of SC1, that Coinhunter actually has the gall to come here and tell experienced coders, haxx0rs and other software types that "Closed source is fine, trust me"

With a closed source client isn't he now in violation of the oracle berkley DB license?

[DeathAndTaxes]

Good catch.

The our open source license permits you to use Berkeley DB, Berkeley DB Java Edition or Berkeley DB XML at no charge under the condition that if you use the software in an application you redistribute, the complete source code for your application must be available and freely redistributable under reasonable conditions. If you do not want to release the source code for your application, you may purchase a license from Oracle. For pricing information, or if you have further questions on licensing, please contact us at berkeleydb-info_us@oracle.com.

So technically CH could be sued by Oracle for using their intellectual property without proper license.  ROFL.

I shot an email to piracy@oracle.com (just took a guess most companies use a piracy@ email address to handle stolen software).

[johnj]

I shot an email to piracy@oracle.com (just took a guess most companies have a piracy@ email address to handle stolen software).

You guessed correctly

[DeathAndTaxes]

So Solid Coin 2.0 works on implicit trust model.  

You must trust that Coin Hunter doesn't do anything wrong with the 1.2M SC he siphons off from the SC economy each year (stealing electricity from miners).  
You must trust he didn't include any nefarious code in the closed source client.
You must trust he is the world's first perfect programmer and introduced no bugs, exploits, or flaws in the code as you can't verify it yourself.
You must trust that he is telling the truth and the 12M SC premine can't be used.
You must trust he wouldn't suddenly change the rules in the future (20% tax instead of 10%, reboot launch SC 3.0, kill entire network, etc).

Without trust SC 2.0 is dead.  Everything relies on complete trust of the glorious leader......

Now we find out he is committing MASSIVE software piracy.  Distributing thousands of copies of Berkeley DB without commercial license.

This is the person everyone is trusting with their mined scam coins?
This is the network which is going to replace Bitcoin?
Companies are going too use SolidCoin (also known as PiracyCoins) for payment and being linked w/ CH software piracy?

Oh man this story just keeps getting better and better.

[sd]

Google for 'berkeley DB license violation'. It might not be the same where you are but I get SolidCoin as the top link.

[Deprived]

Isn't it against the forum rules here to advertise and distribute pirated software?

[DeathAndTaxes]

I think so.  Any mod want to comment on bitcointalk policy on advertising & promoting pirated software?

BTW here is the Berkeley DB License.

/*
 * Copyright (c) 1990-2009
 *      Oracle Corporation.  All rights reserved.
 *
 * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without
 * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions
 * are met:
 * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright
 *    notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
 * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright
 *    notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the
 *    documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.
 * 3. Redistributions in any form must be accompanied by information on
 *    how to obtain complete source code for the DB software and any
 *    accompanying software that uses the DB software.  The source code
 *    must either be included in the distribution or be available for no
 *    more than the cost of distribution plus a nominal fee, and must be
 *    freely redistributable under reasonable conditions.  For an
 *    executable file, complete source code means the source code for all
 *    modules it contains.  It does not include source code for modules or
 *    files that typically accompany the major components of the operating
 *    system on which the executable file runs.
 *
 * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY ORACLE CORPORATION ``AS IS'' AND ANY EXPRESS
 * OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED
 * WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR
 * NON-INFRINGEMENT, ARE DISCLAIMED.  IN NO EVENT SHALL ORACLE CORPORATION
 * BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR
 * CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF
 * SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS
 * INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN
 * CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE)
 * ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF
 * THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE.
 */

SolidCoin 2.0 is in violation of both provisions 2 & 3 and thus is not licensed to use the Berkeley DB, property owned by the Oracle Corporation.  As SolidCoin 2.0 does use and distribute this software without a valid license those involved in SolidCoin project (Coin Hunter et al) are engaging in software piracy which is a crime in some jurisdictions and subject to financial damages by Oracle in many jurisdictions where it is not a crime.

[wobber]

Stop talking about solidcoin and it will die away. Your thinking is far too precious to waste on a delusional aussie that proclaim himself God of the Cryptocoins and gather a massive number of brainwashed followers to praise his every keystroke.

[Maged]

I think so.  Any mod want to comment on bitcointalk policy on advertising & promoting pirated software?

Are we sure that he isn't licensed? Does SolidCoin even use BDB (I wouldn't know, since I don't have it installed)?

Since I somehow doubt that you can prove a negative, we won't be able to do anything about it until we hear from someone at Oracle. If it turns out that he is pirating BDB, though, I would suspect that policy would be to remove every link that points directly or indirectly (one hop) to the client. Most links to solidcointalk would be safe, since fortunately there isn't a big download button on each forum page.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Yes I am sure PiracyCoin uses BDB.  I used a hex editor and opened the dat files.  They match Berkeley DB format.  I used Oracle's tool db_dump to dump the contents of wallet.dat file.  It is indeed valid Berkeley DB.  He didn't even change the structure very much from Bitcoin.  Both the file/folder structure and internal database structure are nearly identical to Bitcoin.

It is possible albiet highly improbable that he has a license but it is my understanding that a commercial licenses from Oracle start in tens of thousands of dollars.  Had SolidCoin community obtained such a high value license one would imagine there would be something, a post, a blog entry, a forum thread, a press release, a line in the FAQ, something.  My guess is Real Solid didn't even realize he couldn't ripoff other people's work, make it close source and keep using BDB for free.  Berkeley DB is Oracle commercial property.  Due to the roots of the project Oracle left an exception to encourage OPEN SOURCE PROJECTS not closed source and proprietary solutions.  While you are right I can't disprove a negative I can use this thread to seek confirmation or denial from someone (other than Oracle) who would know.

So I am asking it unambiguously:

Coinhunter have you obtained a commercial license to distribute Berkeley DB in SolidCoin 2.0?  
Potential users have a right to know if they are engaging in piracy by downloading software that you unlawfully bundled with Commercial Oracle software.

On edit:
Obtained a pricelist from Oracle.  The cheapest license available for Berkeley Db is $800 per CPU
http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/technology-price-list-070617.pdf

If anyone wants to verify it themselves db_dump is an Oracle tool to dump the contents of any Berkeley database.  It is part of the berkeley db development package here (annoyingly Oracle makes you signup first)
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/database/berkeleydb/downloads/index.html

So with 1,200? CPU in SolidCoin network that would mean CoinHunter either paid Oracle ~$1 million or has already engaged in $1 million of software piracy.

[Maged]

Yes I am sure it used BDB.  I used hex editor and opened the dat files.  Likely wasn't necessary because his ripped the entire structure from bitcoin.

He may have a license but my understanding is that commercial licenses from Oracle start in tens of thousands and for something as widely distributed as ScamCoin likely are in the hundreds of thousands.  Had SolidCoin community obtained such a high value license one would imagine there would be something, a post, a blog entry, a forum thread, a line in the FAQ, something.

My guess is Real Solid didn't even realize he couldn't ripoff other people's work, make it close source and keep using BDB for free.

Again, I can't make that assumption, as unlikely as it may be to be wrong, without proof. At the end of the day, all it would do is cause more work for the mods and remove a few links. We wouldn't ban CH, since this would just be considered a single infraction. We also wouldn't ban discussing SolidCoin. In many ways, the topics would become quite similar to Silk Road threads, and I HATE Silk Road threads since that means I always have to read every post to make sure nobody starts linking to it, or otherwise tell people how to find it, and also that nobody mentions specific deals.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Again, I can't make that assumption, as unlikely as it may be to be wrong, without proof. At the end of the day, all it would do is cause more work for the mods and remove a few links. We wouldn't ban CH, since this would just be considered a single infraction. We also wouldn't ban discussion SolidCoin. In many ways, the topics would become quite similar to Silk Road topics, and I HATE Silk Road topics since that means I always have to read every post to make sure nobody starts linking to it, or otherwise tell people how to find it, and also that nobody mentions specific deals there.

I understand completely that you can't act without confirmation.

You could ask him.  Users of bitcointalk have a right to know if they are engaging in piracy when downloading SolidCoin client.  

While I may not be fond of Coin Hunter I doubt he would directly lie to a mod.  He tends to obfuscate, mislead, providing incomplete information and change the topic a lot but to my knowledge he rarely lies.  If he does lie and it is later confirmed to be a lie in the future I would assume that would be ground for a ban.

The question "Have you obtained a commercial license from Oracle to redistribute the Berkeley Database with Solid Coin 2.0?" could resolve this question and ensure Bitcointalk users aren't engaging in piracy because they aren't informed of the risks.

[Maged]

Are you trying to kill this forum? I've told you why it was bad to pursue this, but you have persisted. Now that I have read your reply, I may be legally obligated to do exactly what you asked. Of course, CoinHunter doesn't really have to tell me the truth. However, if we are ever approached by Oracle with information that contradicts his response, we might be legally obligated to ban his account.

God damn it.