EveryDice.com | 0.99% Edge - Instant Cashout - Invest - Referral - Mobile - Fair

[Cryptopher]

ed, how is the progress, can i get my coins soon?

I offer to buy your account for 4 BTC if you're interested.

And reduce a massive payout to a sum that is, relatively speaking, peanuts? Seems a bit suspicious to me.

Nope, I sustained extreme losses from this site. I just want to do a lil' arbitrage, get the rights to his account, only ask for my losses+ whatever I give him. And then I'm out of here.

The rest can go to healing investors. If ED and 1Dice do a deal on their own, it would be like ED couldn't pay out 1Dice and no one will gamble; then site withers away. ED is saying the rolls seem a little suspect with the possibility of a seed leak. After all, he's twice as lucky as Nakowa who was already a freak of nature. So, taking a bit of a financial(non fatal) hit  would be a lot better than forcing ED to run away with everyone's coins.  I'd use escrow for this deal.

If this deal actually goes through, ED can change its commision structure, reduce the max profit to 0.5%, and everyone's happy.
The most serious investors would probably pull out after this scandal.. but it may heal as time goes by.

tl;dr: I really don't give a shit, I just want my coins back.

P.S. I got the idea from Mt.Gox BTC <---> Real BTC exchanges.

And don't you feel that it will end up being the same outcome as the Gox situation? Well I suppose you do having valued those BTC as only 4 real BTC haha.

Before agreeing to pay for it, I'd get an escrow, like I said. Have Edward agree to my deal, then he sends 15+4 BTC, to a neutral escrow, I send 4 BTC to 1Dice, and escrow sends it to me. Bingo.

So wait a second, that means that 1Dice gets 4 BTC instead of his due amount, you get the 15 bitcoins that you wanted, and Edward gets to write off a massive payout?

Seems like 1Dice would be getting screwed, you would be at evens and Edward would be dodging a bullet Matrix style.

Why doesn't Edward just send 4 BTC to 1Dice? Or even still why doesn't he send 19 BTC to him. I don't understand why you would need to be in the equation.

Perhaps I've misread something, but it doesn't appear to make sense.

Because the whole thing was my idea. The way things are headed,  ED will shut down with everyone's coins included. If ED does pay off 1Dice a smaller amount than owed directly, it would imply that ED can't really pay off his debts ala coinbet.cc. At least with my deal, ED can save face and say "ooh, we're legit, herpy derp". My take on this is ED didn't mean to scam. The 1% kelly created an unexpected variance that nearly destroyed the bankroll. IF he takes my deal, ED can fix things by reducing the max profit to 0.5% kelly and reworking the commission system and this shit wont happen again.

While I'm sure that you have good intentions, and of course wish to use this opportunity to get even, I still think that you are an unnecessary agent within such a deal.

I mean the deal would be more likely to happen if Edward just dished out the 19 BTC to 1Dice, or if they come to some arrangement in which payment was send over time. Though that would mess around with the books a bit.

Damage is being done to the reputation of the site, users will be losing faith. The site looks good though. Perhaps it should be sold and rebranded.

[1713958635]

1713958635

[1713958635]

1713958635

[1713958635]

1713958635

[1713958635]

1713958635

[1713958635]

1713958635

[jaysabi]

I don't know why anyone would trust the site at this point. It seems the promised "bankroll" was not as high as advertised. Did ED ever publish proof they held such reserves? Freezing 1Dice1 but allowing other people to redeem gave investors time to flee. Now there is certainly not enough to cover the losses.

This bet "verification" ED is talking about sounds only like an attempt to find an reason not to pay. If someone lost money to ED and requested a "verification" of all the bets, how do you think that would have went down? Everyone would have accused them of just being butthurt over losing money and there would have been a whole lot of "well you knew the risks of gambling, yada yada..." What a ridiculous double standard. ED advertises "provably fair" so how is there a need for verification in a provably fair system? In the event of a site leak or whatever everyone is on about, that's the site owner's fault. You can't tell gamblers "you knew the risks of gambling, it's your loss for being bad at it" then not tell the site owner "you knew the risks of running a gambling website, it's your loss for being bad at it."

In short, this is total garbage. If anything, this should push all other dice sites to publish proof they hold the reserves they say they do if they don't already.

[dooglus]

Did ED ever publish proof they held such reserves? Freezing 1Dice1 but allowing other people to redeem gave investors time to flee. Now there is certainly not enough to cover the losses.

I've seen these two addresses mentioned in the JD chat:

(70707) <Ruru> 1EDCWwzPzuT5v9hmxCwrW5hCDWFyGcdpeg and 1EDCWx4aJ5bT3ztma8wqT3CyTRbd9uSA8K

They seem to be "ED Cold Wallet" vanity addresses, and so probably are.

You don't seem to understand how the site is meant to work.

If there's 300 invested and a player wins 100, there's then 200 invested and 100 in the player's balance.  If the remaining investors pull out 180, there will be 20 invested and 100 in the player's balance.

You'll look at the site and say "the player is trying to withdraw 100 but there's only 20 in the bank, oh noes!" but that's a misunderstanding.  The site has the 100 still - as soon as the player won it, it was taken from the bankroll and put into the player's balance.  It was no longer available for the investors to divest.

So there *should* be enough to cover the losses, even if the invested amount goes to zero.

tldr: the site is supposed to have enough coins to cover the total invested PLUS the total in player balances

[jaysabi]

So you addressed the first part of my point. I stand corrected on that. Assuming those are the ED cold wallet addresses, then the "bet verification" is still a problem. Three days of no withdrawal for 1Dice1 now. I don't see how ED can refuse payment and walk away with any shred of credibility. If you're bad at gambling, that's your loss. If you're bad at running a gambling website, that's also your loss. And of course, that's assuming that 1Dice somehow gamed the system. I think the real problem here is ED had a faulty set-up (house edge lower than max win % of BR) and suffered from a lack of traffic so that it was possible for a whale to take them down. There is not enough gambling on ED to make up for 1Dice wins. On a populated site, 1Dice losses would have been felt but absorbed by gambling activities from other players.

[littlebox]

with CrowdDice.com, house will never get a hit like this, since winning & lossing is strictly between game creators and players.

oh I forget, there's actually no house 

[deadley]

ed, how is the progress, can i get my coins soon?

ah, You did not got money yet. ED ruining its reputation by delaying your payment.

[C.Steven]

It is not about the amount wins, but about the percentage of such case happening. Which in this case is even higher than Nakowa's JD.

I agree that you should check the bets are processed correctly, but the "percentage of the wins" is not really relevant IMO.
If I make a 0.01% bet and win, you can't say "it is too rare to happen" and stop paying me.
Similarly, if I make a 98% bet and lose, or if I lose 20 times consecutively in martingale , I can't say "you should refund me as it is too rare to lose".

[C.Steven]

Checking that provably fair system is works might not take a long time, but other than that we did many things. One of the example is the leak of site seed, this not only involve technical checking and ensure our server has not been compromised, but also questioning all team member involved in the project. We cannot assume this is the case (and lets not), but it is better to be safe than sorry.

As you might noticed, few hours ago the site profit goes down ~50 BTC again, this happened after some manual withdrawal. We know that the previous bet event is mathematically unrelated to the future event, so thinking that site will win after losing is fallacy, however, this is quite much for a coincidence. We are really sorry for the inconvenience, but for a moment we will have to ensure everything is legit. The roll function of P-4747 and 1DiCe1 also has been disabled.

First, as doog suggested, you should limit the number of people having access to the seeds, rather than sharing the seeds with your whole team.
Second, even if you seed is leaked, I don't think it is right to assume 1Dice1's win must be related to it.
Third, if you suspect the seeds have been leaked, you should change them now, rather than just disabling roll function of two big players.
 

[dooglus]

So you addressed the first part of my point. I stand corrected on that.

I agree with you on the rest of your point:

This bet "verification" ED is talking about sounds only like an attempt to find an reason not to pay. If someone lost money to ED and requested a "verification" of all the bets, how do you think that would have went down? Everyone would have accused them of just being butthurt over losing money and there would have been a whole lot of "well you knew the risks of gambling, yada yada..." What a ridiculous double standard. ED advertises "provably fair" so how is there a need for verification in a provably fair system? In the event of a site leak or whatever everyone is on about, that's the site owner's fault. You can't tell gamblers "you knew the risks of gambling, it's your loss for being bad at it" then not tell the site owner "you knew the risks of running a gambling website, it's your loss for being bad at it."

It's not my place to address that.  I run the biggest BTC dice site, Just-Dice.com;  I first came up with the idea of having visitors bankroll the site which everydice and many others have copied (and usually messed up), so when I saw you misunderstanding how that works I stepped in to explain it better.

As for regularly proving solvency, of course that's a good idea.  Any site that doesn't do it should be treated with suspicion.  It's easy to do, so why not do it?

Every Sunday Just-Dice publishes a list of investor balances, so you can check that your investment is included in the total, and we keep the coins in a well known address which we have signed with a message proving it is ours, so you can check that we really do have them all.

[jaysabi]

Every Sunday Just-Dice publishes a list of investor balances, so you can check that your investment is included in the total, and we keep the coins in a well known address which we have signed with a message proving it is ours, so you can check that we really do have them all.

That's the way to do it.

Does JD take a percentage of all wagered bets (win or lose) like ED did, or only percentage of profit?

[MICRO]

Anybody getting cashouts from them atm ?

[zahra4571]

I think everyone is missing the point here. Doog as well, 1Dice1 does not care about any of what you write here, all he want's is his money and nothing else, he got screwed and you guys should help him. Seems no one get's bigger point, people will lose trust into all sites if ED runs away and doesn't pay and this includes JD as well. This should be fixed, site will be f***** but eventually will recover. ED should pay and let 1Dice1 decide what he wan't to do with is BTC, invest or leave.

Seems someone should start a new thread about this issue until it's resolved.

[Cryptopher]

Seems no one get's bigger point, people will lose trust into all sites if ED runs away and doesn't pay and this includes JD as well.

That's a bit of a bold statement. EnjoyDice has only been running a couple of months therefore it should be treated with the risks of anything that is not proven over time.

There are a fair few other, established dice games out there that protect themselves from this happening. If the owner of EnjoyDice does a runner with his funds then that damages the reputation of ED only, not the other, more established dice games.

[Salmon1989]

I think everyone is missing the point here. Doog as well, 1Dice1 does not care about any of what you write here, all he want's is his money and nothing else, he got screwed and you guys should help him.

I agree ED should pay 1Dice1, and 1Dice1 want to get his money.
But how can we help him? We can't really force ED to pay him or stop ED from running away...

[Cryptopher]

I think everyone is missing the point here. Doog as well, 1Dice1 does not care about any of what you write here, all he want's is his money and nothing else, he got screwed and you guys should help him.

I agree ED should pay 1Dice1, and 1Dice1 want to get his money.
But how can we help him? We can't really force ED to pay him or stop ED from running away...

The only thing that people can do is lose a load of bitcoins over at EveryDice and hope that the owner magically decides to release the payout request. Don't think boycotting would achieve much.

[jaysabi]

Maybe unnecessary to point out, but name is "EveryDice," not "EnjoyDice."

If the owner of EnjoyDice does a runner with his funds then that damages the reputation of ED only, not the other, more established dice games.

But I agree with you, it doesn't necessarily damage the reputation of other dice sites. Maybe a good opportunity for smaller site to swing in and save the day, make a name for itself, good PR by covering some of 1D1's losses. But this is maybe unreasonable to assume.

[Salmon1989]

Seems no one get's bigger point, people will lose trust into all sites if ED runs away and doesn't pay and this includes JD as well.

That's a bit of a bold statement. EnjoyDice has only been running a couple of months therefore it should be treated with the risks of anything that is not proven over time.

There are a fair few other, established dice games out there that protect themselves from this happening. If the owner of EnjoyDice does a runner with his funds then that damages the reputation of ED only, not the other, more established dice games.

I kind of understand zahra's point.
After gox is down, everyone are more aware of the problem of storing bitcoin on exchanges and they kind of trust bitstamp, btc-e and all other exchanges less.

Similarly, if ED runs away with all bitcoin, people may be more hesitated to invest their money in bankroll of JD or other casinos.

[Cryptopher]

Seems no one get's bigger point, people will lose trust into all sites if ED runs away and doesn't pay and this includes JD as well.

That's a bit of a bold statement. EnjoyDice has only been running a couple of months therefore it should be treated with the risks of anything that is not proven over time.

There are a fair few other, established dice games out there that protect themselves from this happening. If the owner of EnjoyDice does a runner with his funds then that damages the reputation of ED only, not the other, more established dice games.

I kind of understand zahra's point.
After gox is down, everyone are more aware of the problem of storing bitcoin on exchanges and they kind of trust bitstamp, btc-e and all other exchanges less.

Similarly, if ED runs away with all bitcoin, people may be more hesitated to invest their money in bankroll of JD or other casinos.

Fair enough point about the bankroll aspect, but after Gox went tits up did people stop using BTC-E, Bitstamp, Huobi etc? Of course not. Did people stop storing funds on these exchanges? Probably a few, but the majority of users won't have flinched.

I think that EveryDice's reputation is in tatters now, at least for those who are witnessing this unfold. I don't know how 1Dice amassed so much in winnings so soon, but assuming it is legit then ED is dead in the water.

[KingOfSports]

See I personally don't think everydice is looking into rolls, they are considering the ethical decision at hand:

1. Run with the funds since no one knows their identity.
2. Payout 1dice1 and the site ends cause no one trusts them and no one thinks the site is fair or whatever.

Either way the site goes down. So how much guilt is the point where they won't scam is the real question? For 300 BTC thats quite a hefty sum for someone who no one knows and could disappear with.

[byt411]

See I personally don't think everydice is looking into rolls, they are considering the ethical decision at hand:

1. Run with the funds since no one knows their identity.
2. Payout 1dice1 and the site ends cause no one trusts them and no one thinks the site is fair or whatever.

Either way the site goes down. So how much guilt is the point where they won't scam is the real question? For 300 BTC thats quite a hefty sum for someone who no one knows and could disappear with.

I agree. That's why I quickly divested my investment and cashed out 2 days ago, when 1Dice won 100 BTC.