[ANN] AIRcoin

[mine2slow]

Moderated thread? Deleting post's huh?   SCAM

[1714813132]

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[AIRCOINDEV O]

This coin looks promising, but does contain a number of issues that could harm the viability of the coin. A few suggestions for the developer:

1. difficulty re-targeting - A 24 hour re-target period is going to be razed by multipools. This should be changed to Kimoto's gravity well for re-targeting. If the change does not occur the coin is dead before it ever started.

2. lack of pools - As of right now this is not much of an issue, but as soon as the difficulty creeps up past 1, solo mining will no longer be feasible for an average miner. An official pool will go a long way to alleviate this issue.

3. Maturation time of blocks - A block maturation time of 6 minutes (3 confirms) allows for miners to easily pump & dump coins. It also can lead to an increase in transaction malleability, as coins people think they have mined may suddenly disappear from their wallets. It may be wise to increase the amount of time a block has to mature before it becomes spendable.

I think with these adjustments this coin can do very well. In the current state though, it has a large number of flaws that will hamper it's ability to become truly successful.

Thank you for the favorable review, and we appreciate the feedback in general!  Increasing dialogue (as opposed to "we want this NOW" or "SCAM" from miners and "we CAN'T do this" or "we'll get back to you on that, but we won't specify why" from developers) is another underappreciated avenue to a successful implementation of crypto currencies in everyday life.
  
                                                                          In response to:
Point 1: I have already discussed Kimoto's gravity well (http://www.reddit.com/r/dogecoin/comments/1wc0sr/why_arent_we_discussing_implementing_kimotos/)
with a few other co-developers and developing consultants (including ISAWHIM).  This is something that seems to be "in vogue" currently, but I cannot deny its effectiveness.  We are already working on implementing it into the test net, but we are currently open to discussion about it as a permanent change.

Point 2: We are waiting on current miners to take the pool initiative for the still outstanding bounty.  But then again, it has only been about one day since miners could use the Windows wallet.  An official pool is in the works and will be released soon, and a Mac wallet as well.

Point 3:  This is something that is more of a conceptual issue.  Pumping and dumping by miners is covered in Alexander's original posts (and several following thereafter).  Transaction malleability is no laughing matter, as you have correctly pointed out: http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2014/02/21/bitcoin-transaction-malleability/.  I am specifically here to recognize such "technical details" as Mr. Anderson pointed out.  Increasing the maturity to up to 10 minutes is something the AIRcoin community will have to discuss, after which the AIA and its consultants will take appropriate action based off of the community's responses.  6 minutes confirming should work fine with a 2 minute block time though.

  

[MsCollec]

Moderated thread? Deleting post's huh?   SCAM

I like the stuff you are on, Good stuff The thread is not self-moderated

[AIRCOINDEV O]

You wanna tell me I spend 2 days mining for relaunch?  

There is no planned relaunch (and, consequently, re-launch date).  ISAWHIM meant that to be a (humorous?) suggestion I believe.  There will be updates to the wallet, however.

Quick, re-release it with "Zero premine", it's not too late yet... it will be in a month...
Oh, and sources... Tongue

Live off donations for services. Not our un-earned value, which we have not added to the network yet.

Perfect time to start-over... after you fix the node issue.

Then make an official post... Usually starts with the title... "[ANN][AIR] AIRcoin", not "/AIRcoin"...That threw me off at first. (Also kill the / as it will screw-up things. Not sure why it is there, just looks like a type-o. Hard to search for it too... looks like a folder.)

The official tag suggestion is noted.  The AIR is an inherent part of the design concept.  The node issue has been resolved for some time, and in fact a second node has been brought up by Shadow_Runner and a third node (by us) is in the works.  Alexander has addressed the source code release concern by pointing out sussex's virus scan post on page 3 of this thread:

https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/a5c6b40a171ef632fcbf7ea641f9f5ff3c9be6319509c966fee54947f2ec0e95/analysis/

[Shadow_Runner]

Okay then.
Still mining it solo and found few blocks more.

[sq]

AIRcoin was added to AltCoinCalendar.info.  
AIRcoin was added to AltCoinCalendar.info twitter.

Check Coin CountDown and informations                  

Keep up good work!

[Shadow_Runner]

Moderated thread? Deleting post's huh?   SCAM

I like the stuff you are on, Good stuff The thread is not self-moderated

 

[splawik21]

when will be expected some exchange ?

EDIT: what net hash rate is for all AIR coin?

[Isotactic]

Thank you for the favorable review, and we appreciate the feedback in general!  Increasing dialogue (as opposed to "we want this NOW" or "SCAM" from miners and "we CAN'T do this" or "we'll get back to you on that, but we won't specify why" from developers) is another underappreciated avenue to a successful implementation of crypto currencies in everyday life.
  
                                                                          In response to:
Point 1: I have already discussed Kimoto's gravity well (http://www.reddit.com/r/dogecoin/comments/1wc0sr/why_arent_we_discussing_implementing_kimotos/)
with a few other co-developers and developing consultants (including ISAWHIM).  This is something that seems to be "in vogue" currently, but I cannot deny its effectiveness.  We are already working on implementing it into the test net, but we are currently open to discussion about it as a permanent change.

Point 2: We are waiting on current miners to take the pool initiative for the still outstanding bounty.  But then again, it has only been about one day since miners could use the Windows wallet.  An official pool is in the works and will be released soon, and a Mac wallet as well.

Point 3:  This is something that is more of a conceptual issue.  Pumping and dumping by miners is covered in Alexander's original posts (and several following thereafter).  Transaction malleability is no laughing matter, as you have correctly pointed out: http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2014/02/21/bitcoin-transaction-malleability/.  I am specifically here to recognize such "technical details" as Mr. Anderson pointed out.  Increasing the maturity to up to 10 minutes is something the AIRcoin community will have to discuss, after which the AIA and its consultants will take appropriate action based off of the community's responses.  6 minutes confirming should work fine with a 2 minute block time though.

  

Hi DevO,
Thanks for the response. It is reassuring to know that you are considering miners suggestions on how to improve the coin. Just further follow up to your response:

1. Gravity well has been shown to be highly effective at difficulty re-targeting, which explains why it is considered "in vogue" currently. There are plenty of other options for difficulty adjustments, but few so eloquently solve the issue.

2. Unfortunately the technical knowledge required for of solo-mining will steer people away. An easy to access pool will allow for many more people to join in and strengthen the network. The pool set up by developers does not even need to be a traditional pool, rather it could be set up as a p2pool, thereby strengthening the network and effectively eliminating the need for other pools.

3. I hope I was clear enough with my first statement, I was specifically referring to the maturation of newly minted blocks, not confirmation of transactions. 3 confirmations is on the exceptionally low side, even an hour or two for newly minted blocks to fully mature would help decrease wild swing in hashrate and exchange rates.

[ISAWHIM]

I was actually serious... but also being funny about it.

WARNING: TLDR below!

Honestly, I don't like premines at all. Or insta-mines. This is my (Opinion), both in positive and negative, for that reason.

1: The coins in hand, are held by (some guy/entity), beyond our say of where they get spent.
2: It is impossible to provide real proof of payment, when paying-off ghost-services (self), or rewarding (self) for legitimate services.
3: The money (value) that person is spending, is ours, not his. He is giving away our BTC/USD value, which is cashed-out on our previously deposited value. Taking potential earnings from us.
4: Takes no effort to give away a thousand or a million, of our future value. Not willing to spend his own earnings on the expenses himself. (or entity)
5: The premine/insta-mine will not be nullified until at-least an equal amount has been mined. Thusly, rewarding the person who "cashes-out" fastest, the most. Turning the average "value" of the mined coins of equal volume, by 50%, before it is even mined.
6: Abandonment... Dev walks away, still has funds, does not pass-on to new devs, or the community... cashes-in upon exit. Makes a new coin, repeats...
7: 0.25% of the 1000-year/100-year life... Not sure what entitles anyone to that massive volume. Not even a developer. (or entity)
8: Morale untrust, from day one. Continues into week one, month one, year one... Five years from now, if all those coins are cashed-out, that would appease some, but lingering untrust continues for years later. (Look at ________ coin.) Insert name of premined/insta-mined coin. Why do they keep mining it... in hopes of being on the peak of a big pump, before the dumps that always follow.
9: Seriousness... Serious investors actually invest their own money. Getting serious investors to fork-over into starting negative gains, is hard to swallow. Remember, they are investors. They are already seeing what I see.

However... Even if audited, and only spent on "voted things", while providing actual proof of some kind, as to who is taking the funds, and where they are going... The overall outlook is starting negative still.

On the positive side. This allows us, unable to "provide these services", the early adopters who are sacrificing our potential gains (actually paying for the coins being given out), a chance to add value to the coin directly, by investing. (Buying the coins from the people you are giving them to, for free. Thus, paying for "your" coin to be "our" coin... but not actually being "ours", since we don't get a say where the coins go. Just like a govt. or a bank.)

The hope that you know what you are doing, needs to be stronger than the fear that you are just throwing our value around. From the tone of your writing, that is just about balanced. However, not overpowering to trust in another "noob coin". (No offence there. But noob status and noob coin = instant mistrust levels being high.)

It is obvious that you (or entity) have thought some of this out. Though, not enough to appease fears and provide comfort. Thus, my "humorous" statement, with seriousness behind it... to restart with a "fair launch", for all investors. Not just for you (or entity).

Otherwise, in my eyes, and I am sure in most others (by the obvious lack of initial participation), this coin has already hit unforeseen limitations, that should have clearly been seen by such creative people. (Not encouraging.)

So, to refresh... Yes it was serious.

You also have to remember... (HAVE TO)... That this is not your coin. It is ours, if you want us to use it and mine it and invest in it. If you want it to be "yours"... Go ahead mine away! Have a blast for the next 1000 years regulating your own value of your own mined coin.

Unless this is closed-source, not using the open-source BTC/LTC-code... You will have an even shorter coin-life than you ever expected.

If we demand purple heart icons... You might want to put them in there, or we will just find another dev to do it, and take the coin over. But wait... we would not extend that effort, knowing "you" (or entity) hold all those coins, ready to dump on us, when "your coin" is not what "we want". (Unless we make those blocks invalid, and screw-over everyone you paid, with our value... or just locked out the remaining value.)

Ok, dick-mode over... Still mining it. If I don't like it, I will just dump, like everyone-else does with the rest of the coins we don't like, when devs get full of themselves and try to control "us". Don't go that path. There is potential here. (Beyond the premine/insta-mine thing.)

P.S. This is tough love.. not disgruntlement or slamming... Just wanted to make that clear.

Exactly how long will we have to mine before we have mined 0.25% of the total coins, to turn your premine of 0.25%, into about half-value? Thus the initial 0.5% is starting off at only 50% of whatever any mining estimator claims for daily estimates mining.

Make the coin for us, and we will use it... It is that simple.

P.P.S. Still only have one connection... not even sure if I am on the right chain, without a block-chain explorer.

[komije5363]

is it Source??

[ISAWHIM]

Just thought of this too...

Lets say you have a fund of 10,000 BTC and 10,000,000 AIR... and you are regulating the market... (so to speak)...

Now I know this, and want to cash-out... and just take your BTC. I only have to come and start cashing-out, until your traders dive-in and start feeding me high-value cash-outs of BTC. Same respect on the other end... If I want all your AIR cheap, I just got to start feeding you BTC, and your traders come and "regulate", feeding me nice low valued AIR in bulk... Then I just slowly pump the market with a few coins, and get above your trade-regulation limit, and dump the same way. (Replace me with you or with "your traders", and you have some laundering happening.)

Now... For those trying to "gain"... when you see the price "too high" in your opinion... instead of "us" getting it, you come take that pump-value. Then pour it back into the market when "we" might otherwise be getting our discount coin orders filled... justifying it as "balance", by taking those orders over ours.

Using our coins, does not add value to our coins. That only removes value. Even if you are using our coins to buy BTC, because that BTC value now goes back to the coins you just devalued. Still not seeing how "the coin" itself, would make the difference. I can see how it spreads "poor trading loss" across the majority holders. But that is already done by the exchange, without any intervention. (Just more added expense to pay for, which only decreases value further.)

[AIRcoin]

Just thought of this too...

Lets say you have a fund of 10,000 BTC and 10,000,000 AIR... and you are regulating the market... (so to speak)...

Now I know this, and want to cash-out... and just take your BTC. I only have to come and start cashing-out, until your traders dive-in and start feeding me high-value cash-outs of BTC. Same respect on the other end... If I want all your AIR cheap, I just got to start feeding you BTC, and your traders come and "regulate", feeding me nice low valued AIR in bulk... Then I just slowly pump the market with a few coins, and get above your trade-regulation limit, and dump the same way. (Replace me with you or with "your traders", and you have some laundering happening.)

Now... For those trying to "gain"... when you see the price "too high" in your opinion... instead of "us" getting it, you come take that pump-value. Then pour it back into the market when "we" might otherwise be getting our discount coin orders filled... justifying it as "balance", by taking those orders over ours.

Using our coins, does not add value to our coins. That only removes value. Even if you are using our coins to buy BTC, because that BTC value now goes back to the coins you just devalued. Still not seeing how "the coin" itself, would make the difference. I can see how it spreads "poor trading loss" across the majority holders. But that is already done by the exchange, without any intervention. (Just more added expense to pay for, which only decreases value further.)

It is very unlikely that more than about 10000/A will ever be used to pay for services, since we can do most of our development in-house. The premine is used almost in its entirety to regulate the price. We will release weekly updates of what the premine has been spent on with clear amounts to show the growth of our pool, once we have reached an exchange.

When people rush in to Buy AIR, parts of the premine get sold off for BTC or USD. This BTC is then taken into other markets, and on a day-to-day, minute-to-minute basis, traded against other currencies by our traders. This means that if someone pumps, say, Pandacoin for a 50% gain, a portion of that sold AIR will likely be put into the coin carefully at the right moment, and then will jump 50% in size. As the price comes down, our dilligent traders know to sell. As time goes on, we'll be able to release information on how this pool grows and its effect on the long-term exchange rate.

Then, that 50% increased amount is used to buy back AIR at set a new, higher equilibrium price. This continues until no other markets are increasing faster than AIRcoin.

This means that the AIRcoin price is usually a fuction of the highest possible price % gain available in all cryptocoins. That function is determined by how good we are at trading. In an ideal world, you could just tally up all of the % gains in the entire market (200+ coins) and find the highest ones, and over that time period that would be how much the AIRcoin price would increase. Since we only invest in coins that we are certain of (that's the reason we've hired traders, to make those calls) it's generally safer than even an index investment because we know to pull out of coins that are going to decrease.

You could also think of it as an index of "fastest growing coins", or a coin that shifts your own personal trading gain to an expert trader for you.

The rest of the non-traded coins set up barriers that "smooth" the price movements. Instead of bouncing between two walls, we just apply slightly heavier resistance up and down on the price. This is mostly formulaic. This means that, in your scenario, the larger the volume you would try to move, the less and less profitable it would become. It would be very bad to simply enter and "regulate" as you said, rather, we always have some hand squeezing the market on a point-float system, but allowing free market movement in a narrow range.

Lastly, we don't need to sell the premine to make money. We just take a small fee off the top of the gains we do make, the rest go back in the market. We are fully accountable to our actions and will report any gains we make. By comparison, it makes pump and dump schemes look crude. All of this is outlined in our FAQ page. The size of the premine is designed to both deal with large trading volume, and ensure that only 1% - 5% gains are needed to grow the exchange rate, instead of 20%-30% on a smaller amount.

If those who download our wallets are like the citizens of a nation, and that nation is theirs, then we (the AIA) are its army. Like the army, the citizens have to accept the fact that there is a lot of power in our hands, but you also have to accept the fact that like the army we are accountable, under constant surveillance through the blockchain, and are the only group with the real power to make the coin last for a long time.





On a side note, and I do not mean this with offense, you use of the word "value" in your last few posts is very, very incorrect. Value is seen as the highest price available that a person will pay for an item. If the negotiated price is higher than the value, no sale will happen. Example, if you bought a banana for $5, $5 is not its value. If I could have sold it to you for $500, then $500 is its value, from you.That tells me that you're willing to give up, at most, $500 for this bananas. It is impossible to "Add" value in any way other than convincing people that they want something more than they did before. However, there is a limit, since people generally only have so much resources to give to exchanging an object. This is the core of the concept of "utility". Like utility value must always be considered on a person-by-person basis. Otherwise you have to make assumptions and averages (losing accuracy) in order to make economic decisions based on concepts of value.

What you seem to be talking about is "added value", which is a very different concept outlined by Karl Marx (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_added) this is a controversial definition, but generally does not work well in small-scale economics and is reserved for large-scale economics where a single individual's demand has less impact on the ultimate calculations. It is generally not accepted as academically correct, for what its worth.

The "value" of an item is what someone is willing to pay, nothing more. Putting years of work into something does not make it more valuable. However, that act may convince people that they would want it more, which would (as a secondary effect) increase the value. But that is a secondary, non-dependent effect that does not hold in all cases.

"Utility", which is a perceived usefulness that someone would obtain from something, can be looked at as the continuum from the lowest price to the highest price someone would be able to pay for something. Unless they get benefits from spending money (See: Giffen goods) that is usually from 0 (lowest) to Value (highest).

Exactly how long will we have to mine before we have mined 0.25% of the total coins, to turn your premine of 0.25%, into about half-value? Thus the initial 0.5% is starting off at only 50% of whatever any mining estimator claims for daily estimates mining.

Make the coin for us, and we will use it... It is that simple.

P.P.S. Still only have one connection... not even sure if I am on the right chain, without a block-chain explorer.

At the current rate, the premine is overtaken by the mined coins in exactly 2.54 years. However, the block reward does change once on an exchange, and in the event of a price rise, the block reward will increase high enough that the premine will be overtaken at a faster rate.

All the wallets we have tested have between 3-6 connections right now.

when will be expected some exchange ?

EDIT: what net hash rate is for all AIR coin?

We have received offers to enter exchanges, and we could open any time we want. However, we will likely not open on an exchange until dialogue between us and some of the larger, more reputable exchanges is finished. For this coin to work, it is imperative that we enter a large, reputable exchange with an excellent API and low market latency.

Hashrates are currently at 21,700,000H/s.

[UrsaMajorisBeta]

Hoping so!

[fudge]

addnode=107.170.20.200 - not reachable

any other nodes??

[AIRcoin]

Our development team has decided to Subsidize pool fees to encourage many pools being set up.

We will pay 10/A per day to pools for the next 3 weeks, If they charge 1% fees or lower and have a hash rate below 40% of the entire network hashrate.

Pool fee subsidies will be based on the share of the network hashrate and the pool fee, and will calculated as the "equivalent" payment that 1% pool fees would constitute, according to the following formula:

(720 * 3.72* %OFNETWORK * .02) - (720* 3.72* %OFNETWORK * .01)

Or, in english, we will pay the profit that they would get by charging a 2% fee instead of a 1% fee.

Pools over 40% of network hashrate will not receive any subsidy. Pool managers are welcome to set up multiple pools and can recieve multiple subsidies as long as each pool fits the criteria.

So for a pool charging a 2% fee, at 33% block share they would get (720*3.72*.33*.02)= 17.67744/A from fees.
For a pool charging a 1% fee or lower, with our subsidy, they would get (720*3.72*.33*.01) + 8.83872 = 17.67744/A from fees.

So for a pool charging a 2% fee, at 18% block share they would get (720*3.72*.18*.02)= 9.64224/A from fees.
For a pool charging a 1% fee or lower, with our subsidy, they would get (720*3.72*.18*.01) + 4.82112 = 9.64224/A from fees.

This promotional will run for the next two weeks to help raise hashrates before entering an exchange. To Claim, they must send me an email (Alexander@teamaircoin.org) or a private message here every day, with a link to the pool, AIRcoin wallet address, and verification of being the pool's manager (such as a notice on the pool's website or through a designated contact) after which we will check their hashrate, and then distribute the coins to the address provided within the following 24 hours if they meet our requirements.


Additionally, we are beginning dialogues with the following exchanges to begin campaigns for adoption, and we want to know what those of you who have supported us early would prefer this coin to open on. We believe that it is better to be on a few, strong exchanges than be listed on many weak ones, even though the latter may require less effort. The four exchanges we have identified as acceptable are:

1. Cryptsy
2. Bter
3. Poloniex
4. BTC-E

But we are willing to pursue and focus our campaign on whatever exchange that the users consider the best, ideal choice for opening the coin on.

We are looking for exchanges with high volume, many coins, and an exceptional API. Which of those four exchanges (or ones that we have overlooked) do you feel is best suited for AIRcoin?

We should note that any and all exchanges must conform to the laws within their state and country regarding cryptocurrency exchanges.

[AIRCOINDEV O]

New node!

Code:

addnode=188.226.182.21

Everyone, please add this to your config files.

[sussex]

Our development team has decided to Subsidize pool fees to encourage many pools being set up.

For pools with hashrates over 15M/H on that day:



1. Cryptsy
2. Bter
3. Poloniex
4. BTC-E

But we are willing to pursue and focus our campaign on whatever exchange that the users consider the best, ideal choice for opening the coin on.

We are looking for exchanges with high volume, many coins, and an exceptional API. Which of those four exchanges (or ones that we have overlooked) do you feel is best suited for AIRcoin?

We should note that any and all exchanges must conform to the laws within their state and country regarding cryptocurrency exchanges.

Coinmarket.io and Mcxnow are both very responsive sites, a joy to use, and I think they are both bigger than Poloniex.

Cryptsy is always lethargic and sometimes unusable, I'm not that keen on them. Getting coins in and out of Cryptsy is always slow in my experience.

BTC-E has a very limited coin market choice, I wouldn't really consider them major in that sense.

Bter is just strange and often problematic - withdrawals can be painfully slow.

I do like Poloniex, but it is rather low volume.

[r3s]

Can someone test my wallet please

AU9yzjXZtWaQJNL53RDkuh5MY24GxPU7gJ

Thanks.

[ISAWHIM]

My quote of "value", was attempting to imply that there is no (quote)value(/quote)... (Singular form).

Eg, some of us are mining for "dollar value", others are mining for "AIR value", others still for "BTC value"... However, the "regulation", as you state, will be strictly limiting/regulating "value"... (Which in your eyes/opinion, is BTC value. A singular "value". If you don't put a value on it, you can't regulate it. You have chosen one value, of the many desires.)

Again, not implying that "you" (or entity), will knowingly harm our value. However, there is no mention of what protections will be in place to stop purposeful leaching of this "regulation". Which can easily tap-out all resources available for regulation.

Have your "regulators", tried this on any existing markets? If they are that good, then we should see this regulation in effect, and you could instantly be able to show us actual rewards, on that "demo market". (Again, this is a new member, with a new coin, simply saying, "trust us".) No credentials, but lots of white-papers written by others.

{NOTE: Still, none of this actually matters to me. I am just throwing the thoughts rolling out of my head. I am more concerned with final application and execution, not history. However, proof is always better then concept on white-paper.}

Ask the hard/stupid questions now... makes it easier to answer them again later, as they crop-up.

I would like to see a demo of this regulation in action... Do it to a coin with a difficult challenge. "Emerald Coin". That coin has a horribly nice 20-second block-time and is super-sensitive to hoppers and price changes. Would not take much effort to get direct feedback, and returns, with that coin as a test of ability. It is essentially on the bottom, yet, amazingly not on the bottom.

Also, you have a 100-1000 year business plan all set into place, for the ones who take-over regulation once you guys are gone? Since there will still be miners, and reward-regulation will still be a required element of the coins mining-returns.

Gotta love my lame 20-questions... I think I have like 5 more left... xD

Doing good at beating me down, by the way... Real professional responses. (That's another +10 in my book.)