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Author Topic: Count down to Iran invasion  (Read 26144 times)
J603
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August 02, 2013, 01:50:00 PM
 #261

The issue, as outlined in the wikipedia entry, is that they aren't using Federal Reserve Notes to transact their oil internationally.

Of course they don't. We don't trade with them. If the US cares so much about what currency they use, why did we place an embargo on them?

You're saying that it makes sense for the US to invade their country, leading to US deaths, negative public opinion, and a debilitated Iranian economy just so that they use USD instead of the Euro? That is not sound logic.

I think it would make more sense for the US to just lift the embargo. Why go to war?
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August 02, 2013, 02:14:27 PM
 #262

The issue, as outlined in the wikipedia entry, is that they aren't using Federal Reserve Notes to transact their oil internationally.

Of course they don't. We don't trade with them. If the US cares so much about what currency they use, why did we place an embargo on them?

You're saying that it makes sense for the US to invade their country, leading to US deaths, negative public opinion, and a debilitated Iranian economy just so that they use USD instead of the Euro? That is not sound logic.

I think it would make more sense for the US to just lift the embargo. Why go to war?

It's irrelevant whether the United States trades with Iran;  it's a currency issue.  Exporting Federal Reserve notes maintains the value of the US dollar, and the United States uses military force to ensure that the US dollar stays as the world reserve currency through the Petrodollar.
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August 02, 2013, 02:29:16 PM
 #263

The issue, as outlined in the wikipedia entry, is that they aren't using Federal Reserve Notes to transact their oil internationally.

Of course they don't. We don't trade with them. If the US cares so much about what currency they use, why did we place an embargo on them?

You're saying that it makes sense for the US to invade their country, leading to US deaths, negative public opinion, and a debilitated Iranian economy just so that they use USD instead of the Euro? That is not sound logic.

I think it would make more sense for the US to just lift the embargo. Why go to war?

It's irrelevant whether the United States trades with Iran;  it's a currency issue.  Exporting Federal Reserve notes maintains the value of the US dollar, and the United States uses military force to ensure that the US dollar stays as the world reserve currency through the Petrodollar.

No, it is not irrelevant. Currently, Iran has nothing to do with the USD. Were the US to lift its embargo, USD would be traded through Iran. Were the US to invade, the exact same thing would happen, except that Iran's economy would be destroyed and Americans would die.

Explain the benefit of war versus lifting the embargo.
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August 02, 2013, 02:39:24 PM
 #264

I'm not advocating that United States go to war with Iran.  Iran doesn't want to use Federal Reserve notes to sell their oil on the international market. 
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August 02, 2013, 02:46:27 PM
 #265

Maybe this article will be helpful.

http://www.crisishq.com/why-prepare/world-war-3-preserving-petrodollar/

Feel free to disagree with the facts and conclusions, but this is what I'm trying to describe.
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August 02, 2013, 03:27:05 PM
 #266

Maybe this article will be helpful.

http://www.crisishq.com/why-prepare/world-war-3-preserving-petrodollar/

Feel free to disagree with the facts and conclusions, but this is what I'm trying to describe.

Here are the facts:

1. The USD is the currency of the United States.
2. Iran does not trade with the United States, not by its own choice, but because of a US embargo on all Iranian products.
3. Iran cannot trade in USD (from the US) because the US does not allow it.

Iran does not trade in USD because the country that the USD is backed by does not trade with Iran. This is the same reason that Cuba doesn't trade in USD.
The petrodollar theory does not apply because Iran has no choice in the matter. Even if Rouhani decides that he loves the US, he cannot trade in USD because the US has imposed an embargo. The Iranian propaganda department may claim that they are choosing to not trade in USD, but in reality it's not their decision.

If this embargo did not exist, I might agree with petrodollar theory. However, the embargo does exist, and so long as it does Iran cannot trade in USD regardless of what it wants to do.

I am not "disagree[ing] with facts and conclusions". The facts are that Iran is not trading with the USD because of the embargo. This is not a theory like petrodollar, this is the reality of the situation.

My opinion is this: Were the embargo to be lifted, would Iran trade in USD? More than likely yes. Cuba, which has had an embargo for much longer, and has been a much more serious enemy of the US, is still willing to trade if the US imposed embargo is lifted.
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August 02, 2013, 07:36:12 PM
 #267

The issue, as outlined in the wikipedia entry, is that they aren't using Federal Reserve Notes to transact their oil internationally.

Of course they don't. We don't trade with them. If the US cares so much about what currency they use, why did we place an embargo on them?

You're saying that it makes sense for the US to invade their country, leading to US deaths, negative public opinion, and a debilitated Iranian economy just so that they use USD instead of the Euro? That is not sound logic.

I think it would make more sense for the US to just lift the embargo. Why go to war?

It's irrelevant whether the United States trades with Iran;  it's a currency issue.  Exporting Federal Reserve notes maintains the value of the US dollar, and the United States uses military force to ensure that the US dollar stays as the world reserve currency through the Petrodollar.

This. Listen to what he is saying for a second before you convince yourself of your point. The US NEEDS people to use the dollar to trade in oil because that is what backs the value of the USD. Seeing as the USD is fiat with zero backing, the only real way they can force people to use it is via energy cartels which mandate people to use it to trade oil, and therefore accept it in exchange for oil.

This means a constant supply of foreign holders. It doesn't matter of martians trade with us, if they buy oil in USD from ANYONE it props up the dollar, and it certainly needs some propping. That is not even to mention the geopolitical value of the region in regards to proxy war with Russia and China, but all the natural resources located there. I am not advocating war, but these are facts.

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August 02, 2013, 07:38:48 PM
 #268

Hearing lots of rumblings from military personnel that an attack is now imminent within the next few weeks. Fill up your tanks and your cupboard, because this time the problems aren't just going to be over seas. Take care & good luck.  

U.S. Challenged to Explain Accusations of Iran Plot in the Face of Skepticism
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/13/us/iran-sees-terror-plot-accusation-as-diversion-from-wall-street-protests.html?_r=2&hp

Saudis vow revenge for Iran's 'plot' on US soil
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/saudis-vow-revenge-for-irans-plot-on-us-soil-2369658.html

Iran: We had information Israel, U.S. intended to attack us
http://www.haaretz.com/news/iran-we-had-information-israel-u-s-intended-to-attack-us-1.265662

G-8 'fully believes' Israel will attack Iran, says Italy PM
http://www.haaretz.com/misc/article-print-page/g-8-fully-believes-israel-will-attack-iran-says-italy-pm-1.298597?trailingPath=2.169%2C2.216%2C2.217%2C

Obama, McCain: Military option in Iran relevant
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3600171,00.html

Inside Obama's Israel Bomb Sale
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/09/25/obama-arms-israel.html

Iran's alleged Mexican hitman was US drugs informant
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/12/iran-mexico-drug-informant-hitman

The fast and furious plot to occupy Iran
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/10/201110121715573693.html

lmao still not happened

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August 02, 2013, 07:50:42 PM
 #269

The issue, as outlined in the wikipedia entry, is that they aren't using Federal Reserve Notes to transact their oil internationally.

Of course they don't. We don't trade with them. If the US cares so much about what currency they use, why did we place an embargo on them?

You're saying that it makes sense for the US to invade their country, leading to US deaths, negative public opinion, and a debilitated Iranian economy just so that they use USD instead of the Euro? That is not sound logic.

I think it would make more sense for the US to just lift the embargo. Why go to war?

It's irrelevant whether the United States trades with Iran;  it's a currency issue.  Exporting Federal Reserve notes maintains the value of the US dollar, and the United States uses military force to ensure that the US dollar stays as the world reserve currency through the Petrodollar.

This. Listen to what he is saying for a second before you convince yourself of your point. The US NEEDS people to use the dollar to trade in oil because that is what backs the value of the USD. Seeing as the USD is fiat with zero backing, the only real way they can force people to use it is via energy cartels which mandate people to use it to trade oil, and therefore accept it in exchange for oil.

This means a constant supply of foreign holders. It doesn't matter of martians trade with us, if they buy oil in USD from ANYONE it props up the dollar, and it certainly needs some propping. That is not even to mention the geopolitical value of the region in regards to proxy war with Russia and China, but all the natural resources located there. I am not advocating war, but these are facts.

You seem to ignore some of my points. It's kind of annoying.

You have not explained why the US would impose an embargo on Iran, if it's so important that Iran use the USD. Maybe I'm crazy, but wouldn't trading with them force them to use the USD? Are US merchants going to accept rial and start speaking Farsi?

Also, energy cartels? You mean like OPEC, which Iran is a part of but the US is not? The US does not have an "energy cartel". In fact, for the most powerful nation on Earth we are very reliant on others for energy. Interestingly enough, less than 13% of our oil comes from the Middle East.



Finally, proxy war? This is not the Cold War. China is our closest economic partner. If they suffer, we suffer. We are not enemies with Russia either. Remember that the US did not start the Syrian Civil War. Assad was a dictator, and like all dictators his people got fed up. In this case Russian and American interests came in conflict, but it was not a decision made by Russia, the US, or Iran. It was purely the fault of the Syrian government.

This last paragraph is not a reply to the quoted post, but you've been ignoring it every time I say it. Explain why Hamas is exempt from the "mutual defense treaty" but the US is not.
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August 03, 2013, 06:09:22 AM
 #270

The issue, as outlined in the wikipedia entry, is that they aren't using Federal Reserve Notes to transact their oil internationally.

Of course they don't. We don't trade with them. If the US cares so much about what currency they use, why did we place an embargo on them?

You're saying that it makes sense for the US to invade their country, leading to US deaths, negative public opinion, and a debilitated Iranian economy just so that they use USD instead of the Euro? That is not sound logic.

I think it would make more sense for the US to just lift the embargo. Why go to war?

It's irrelevant whether the United States trades with Iran;  it's a currency issue.  Exporting Federal Reserve notes maintains the value of the US dollar, and the United States uses military force to ensure that the US dollar stays as the world reserve currency through the Petrodollar.

This. Listen to what he is saying for a second before you convince yourself of your point. The US NEEDS people to use the dollar to trade in oil because that is what backs the value of the USD. Seeing as the USD is fiat with zero backing, the only real way they can force people to use it is via energy cartels which mandate people to use it to trade oil, and therefore accept it in exchange for oil.

This means a constant supply of foreign holders. It doesn't matter of martians trade with us, if they buy oil in USD from ANYONE it props up the dollar, and it certainly needs some propping. That is not even to mention the geopolitical value of the region in regards to proxy war with Russia and China, but all the natural resources located there. I am not advocating war, but these are facts.

You seem to ignore some of my points. It's kind of annoying.

You have not explained why the US would impose an embargo on Iran, if it's so important that Iran use the USD. Maybe I'm crazy, but wouldn't trading with them force them to use the USD? Are US merchants going to accept rial and start speaking Farsi?

Also, energy cartels? You mean like OPEC, which Iran is a part of but the US is not? The US does not have an "energy cartel". In fact, for the most powerful nation on Earth we are very reliant on others for energy. Interestingly enough, less than 13% of our oil comes from the Middle East.



Finally, proxy war? This is not the Cold War. China is our closest economic partner. If they suffer, we suffer. We are not enemies with Russia either. Remember that the US did not start the Syrian Civil War. Assad was a dictator, and like all dictators his people got fed up. In this case Russian and American interests came in conflict, but it was not a decision made by Russia, the US, or Iran. It was purely the fault of the Syrian government.

This last paragraph is not a reply to the quoted post, but you've been ignoring it every time I say it. Explain why Hamas is exempt from the "mutual defense treaty" but the US is not.

You seem to be operating under the assumption that the government has public interest in mind. This is about protecting private business, and the current corrupt failing financial system long enough for them to collapse it profitably. They don't care about the United States, or its people, or any people or nation for that matter. This is about 1 thing, same as in every other war. Profit. The US, China, and Russia are on an economic and resource based collision course. One or more nations must change its consumption habits quickly or else there will not be enough resources to go around. This is a fact. This is first a game by the capital holders, second the world being made to dance and climb over each other for the privilege of things like clean water and nontoxic food. If they have to burn down the world to make a profit they will.

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August 05, 2013, 05:25:27 PM
 #271


You seem to be operating under the assumption that the government has public interest in mind. This is about protecting private business, and the current corrupt failing financial system long enough for them to collapse it profitably. They don't care about the United States, or its people, or any people or nation for that matter. This is about 1 thing, same as in every other war. Profit. The US, China, and Russia are on an economic and resource based collision course. One or more nations must change its consumption habits quickly or else there will not be enough resources to go around. This is a fact. This is first a game by the capital holders, second the world being made to dance and climb over each other for the privilege of things like clean water and nontoxic food. If they have to burn down the world to make a profit they will.

I was going to go through each point individually, but then I realized I don't have to. Your argument has been that the US will go to war. Your "evidence" is that politicians are evil, and that they're going to somehow make a profit off of a war with Iran. This is not real evidence. It is simply your opinion.

Where is actual proof?

Actually, I don't need actual proof, since I don't think that we'll find it. Instead, I want you to explain how anyone profits from "burn[ing] down the world", as you put it.

I also want an explanation as to why going to war is better than lifting the embargo. Stop ignoring this point.
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August 05, 2013, 07:05:20 PM
 #272

No, I think it has to do with Syria, from the looks of things. Last time I checked, Iran is not the same country as Syria, but I could be wrong. In any case, the major "opponent" of the US in the Syrian Civil War is Russia, but we are clearly not going to go to war with them over this one country.

They have a mutual defense treaty.  The US has been unsuccessful at provoking Iran, so they are trying to start a proxy war through Syria.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/01/us-syria-crisis-iran-idUSBRE88007120120901

would a proxy-provokation (by Israel) do the job?


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August 05, 2013, 07:13:07 PM
 #273

The issue, as outlined in the wikipedia entry, is that they aren't using Federal Reserve Notes to transact their oil internationally.

Of course they don't. We don't trade with them. If the US cares so much about what currency they use, why did we place an embargo on them?

You're saying that it makes sense for the US to invade their country, leading to US deaths, negative public opinion, and a debilitated Iranian economy just so that they use USD instead of the Euro? That is not sound logic.

I think it would make more sense for the US to just lift the embargo. Why go to war?

It's irrelevant whether the United States trades with Iran;  it's a currency issue.  Exporting Federal Reserve notes maintains the value of the US dollar, and the United States uses military force to ensure that the US dollar stays as the world reserve currency through the Petrodollar.

For those who seek some enlightenment on the issue, I suggest listening to John Perkins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oARBdBtGenM

The Europeans also embargoed Iran (pressured by the US). Do you think the US would allow Iran to trade Oil for EUR? No way!

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August 06, 2013, 02:13:39 AM
 #274


You seem to be operating under the assumption that the government has public interest in mind. This is about protecting private business, and the current corrupt failing financial system long enough for them to collapse it profitably. They don't care about the United States, or its people, or any people or nation for that matter. This is about 1 thing, same as in every other war. Profit. The US, China, and Russia are on an economic and resource based collision course. One or more nations must change its consumption habits quickly or else there will not be enough resources to go around. This is a fact. This is first a game by the capital holders, second the world being made to dance and climb over each other for the privilege of things like clean water and nontoxic food. If they have to burn down the world to make a profit they will.

I was going to go through each point individually, but then I realized I don't have to. Your argument has been that the US will go to war. Your "evidence" is that politicians are evil, and that they're going to somehow make a profit off of a war with Iran. This is not real evidence. It is simply your opinion.

Where is actual proof?

Actually, I don't need actual proof, since I don't think that we'll find it. Instead, I want you to explain how anyone profits from "burn[ing] down the world", as you put it.

I also want an explanation as to why going to war is better than lifting the embargo. Stop ignoring this point.

My evidence is that they ARE CURRENTLY in a war with Iran. I have been posting evidence of this from the first post.
I don't know how you define war, but in my book destroying the economy, overthrowing and occupying the surrounding region, blowing up military facilities, reactors, scientists, and generals count as war.

Spend a little more time analyzing the information provided and less time interpreting it  to serve your own confirmation bias. It is a fact war is profitable. What is the number 1 export of the USA after garbage? DEFENSE. They don't need to win a war with Iran to profit, they just have to spend money attacking them in various ways. It is a very convenient system for placing debt on the tax payers (read slaves) that can never be repaid, while funneling money into various defense industries set up by cronies of the people who enacted the legislation to provide the funding from the tax slavers. I know right? It is crazy. Who would have thought that people would get together in a vast conspiracy to make money at the expense of others. Completely unbelievable.

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August 06, 2013, 09:45:28 AM
 #275

The issue, as outlined in the wikipedia entry, is that they aren't using Federal Reserve Notes to transact their oil internationally.

Of course they don't. We don't trade with them. If the US cares so much about what currency they use, why did we place an embargo on them?

You're saying that it makes sense for the US to invade their country, leading to US deaths, negative public opinion, and a debilitated Iranian economy just so that they use USD instead of the Euro? That is not sound logic.

I think it would make more sense for the US to just lift the embargo. Why go to war?

It's irrelevant whether the United States trades with Iran;  it's a currency issue.  Exporting Federal Reserve notes maintains the value of the US dollar, and the United States uses military force to ensure that the US dollar stays as the world reserve currencthrough the Petrodollar.

For those who seek some enlightenment on the issue, I suggest listening to John Perkins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oARBdBtGenM

The Europeans also embargoed Iran (pressured by the US). Do you think the US would allow Iran to trade Oil for EUR? No way!

Very interesting, thanks for the link. Follow the incentive...

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August 08, 2013, 03:37:01 PM
 #276


My evidence is that they ARE CURRENTLY in a war with Iran. I have been posting evidence of this from the first post.
I don't know how you define war, but in my book destroying the economy, overthrowing and occupying the surrounding region, blowing up military facilities, reactors, scientists, and generals count as war.


Show me an example of the US hurting any Iranian. And your source has to be legitimate, not a conspiracy theory. And Israel is not the US, so I don't care what they do.


Quote
Spend a little more time analyzing the information provided and less time interpreting it  to serve your own confirmation bias. It is a fact war is profitable. What is the number 1 export of the USA after garbage? DEFENSE. They don't need to win a war with Iran to profit, they just have to spend money attacking them in various ways. It is a very convenient system for placing debt on the tax payers (read slaves) that can never be repaid, while funneling money into various defense industries set up by cronies of the people who enacted the legislation to provide the funding from the tax slavers. I know right? It is crazy. Who would have thought that people would get together in a vast conspiracy to make money at the expense of others. Completely unbelievable.

Actually, the majority of US domestic money comes from oil, and Walmart. No joke, Walmart is the second highest grossing company in the US, after Exxon Mobil. I guess that Walmart does sell guns, so you're kind of right. Fannie Mae is also up there on the list of "defense" companies that makes the US' money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_States

The US exports mainly industrial machinery and supplies.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/03/14/148460268/what-america-sells-to-the-world

The US exported $8,760,000,000 worth of military equipment last year. This is compared to the $10+ billion worth of military-grade soybeans exported to China alone. The US truly is an exporter of death and destruction, but mostly soybeans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry#World.27s_largest_defense_budgets

Those are some actual facts. Do with them what you will.
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August 09, 2013, 09:57:02 AM
 #277

Show me an example of the US hurting any Iranian. And your source has to be legitimate, not a conspiracy theory. And Israel is not the US, so I don't care what they do.

I can do better, I can show the US hurting MANY Iranians:  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_sanctions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat



Actually, the majority of US domestic money comes from oil, and Walmart. No joke, Walmart is the second highest grossing company in the US, after Exxon Mobil. I guess that Walmart does sell guns, so you're kind of right. Fannie Mae is also up there on the list of "defense" companies that makes the US' money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_States

The US exports mainly industrial machinery and supplies.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/03/14/148460268/what-america-sells-to-the-world

The US exported $8,760,000,000 worth of military equipment last year. This is compared to the $10+ billion worth of military-grade soybeans exported to China alone. The US truly is an exporter of death and destruction, but mostly soybeans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry#World.27s_largest_defense_budgets

Those are some actual facts. Do with them what you will.

Did I say the money comes from defense or did I say our largest export after garbage is defense? While clearly we don't profit from exporting garbage, no one would deny a lot of it leaves US borders. The same goes for defense SPENDING, not sales. Remember it doesn't have to be profitable if they can spend into endless debt tacked onto tax payers who can never repay. The bankers still get their cut from the volume of money flow and various investment instruments. I suggest you look at US military and economic aid, both forms of spending, you will see military aid alone outpaces your soybean export figure. Don't forget that does not include commercial defense sales exports.

https://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s1299.pdf
http://breakingdefense.com/2012/03/16/the-military-imbalance-how-the-u-s-outspends-the-world/

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August 09, 2013, 01:21:35 PM
 #278


I thought we were talking about modern times. And eight years before that the Iranians supported the Nazis, so who started the aggression?

Quote
Did I say the money comes from defense or did I say our largest export after garbage is defense? While clearly we don't profit from exporting garbage, no one would deny a lot of it leaves US borders. The same goes for defense SPENDING, not sales. Remember it doesn't have to be profitable if they can spend into endless debt tacked onto tax payers who can never repay. The bankers still get their cut from the volume of money flow and various investment instruments. I suggest you look at US military and economic aid, both forms of spending, you will see military aid alone outpaces your soybean export figure. Don't forget that does not include commercial defense sales exports.

https://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s1299.pdf
http://breakingdefense.com/2012/03/16/the-military-imbalance-how-the-u-s-outspends-the-world/

Wait, so first it was about profit, but now it doesn't matter if the US profits? I showed that soybeans and Walmart are bigger industries domestic and foreign and you say that doesn't matter?

You said:

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It is a fact war is profitable

But then you turned your argument around:

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Remember it doesn't have to be profitable

If war is not profitable, why do it? Who wins exactly? I thought that the government wanted money. Seems like the best option would be to build Walmarts, not bombs.

After all, Walmart is more profitable. Weapons manufacturers can't compare.

Yes, our spending is high, but that's because we have more than double the gdp of any other country on the planet. Our % spending is more reasonable. It's about the same as Russia (4.7% and 4.4% respectively), another major country. If we compare to the middle east, we spend less money on defense than some countries, such as Saudi Arabia, Oman, UAE, Jordan, and Israel. Syria and Yemen are also very close at 4.0% and 3.9%.

In case you're wondering, Iran does spend much less than us at 1.8%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

It would appear that the US does not spend an unreasonable amount on defense in terms of percentage.

In fact, the highest country is Eritrea at 20.9%. Eritrea, oppressor of all of humanity.
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August 09, 2013, 02:24:47 PM
 #279

The US exported $8,760,000,000 worth of military equipment last year. This is compared to the $10+ billion worth of military-grade soybeans exported to China alone. The US truly is an exporter of death and destruction, but mostly soybeans.

Does that include military equipment that explodes on delivery?

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August 09, 2013, 02:31:13 PM
 #280

The US exported $8,760,000,000 worth of military equipment last year. This is compared to the $10+ billion worth of military-grade soybeans exported to China alone. The US truly is an exporter of death and destruction, but mostly soybeans.

Does that include military equipment that explodes on delivery?

No, it doesn't. Those soybeans however are deadly.
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