★ ZEIT ★ [COMMUNITY & KNIGHTS] [ULTRA LOW INFLATION] [MICRO-PAYMENTS]

[podizzle]

wait you're asking us? 

hey zeit dumper bet you wont do the same thing at comkort!

probably bigfern dumping his staked coins 

[1715381966]

1715381966

[1715381966]

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[1715381966]

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[Zels]

Some questions:

Q1: What exactly is autocombine? Is it a minting feature? If true, what happens to normal transactions (100 coin faucets as an example)?

Q2: How can it work without setting tons of coin blocks to zero age and without losing interest?
Q3: Is it safe to let a wallet make auto-transactions without any approval (wallet is not encrypted then) ?
Q4: Is it an external feature or an intervention in the blockchain.
Q5: How safe is our network if a possible attacker knows the rules (from the source code)?

Cheers

Since you're planning to copy S4C from HBN, take a look to https://github.com/Tranz5/HoboNickels/commit/c9e91a0b800f3e20a1b84d5b7957626c1cb5b445 about -splitthreshold and -combinethreshold or ask Tranz, he will be better than me to explain everything :p

Q1: When coin stake, it's split into 2 input for now like if 500 zeit stake, you'll have 2 inputs of ~250each, and 20 days later, 4 inputs of ~125each, etc
Instead of having many small inputs after some times, once it stake, instead of split, wallet should merge inputs that have same age to form bigger blocks
And having transaction of 100zeit or 1M zeit won't change anything, once they're good to mint

Q2: When coins split when they stake, coin age restart at 0, is the same, but instead of split, it combine them

Q3: It's as safe than us doing this manually with coin control

Q4: It's like when we use coin control to merge our coin to form bigger blocks, but automatic ^^

Q5: I'm not a coder or know anything about potential attack over coin, but looks safe. HBN have this since january and nothing wrong happend to this coin

[atronite]

wait you're asking us?  

hey zeit dumper bet you wont do the same thing at comkort!

probably bigfern dumping his staked coins  

This coin isn't exactly what you'd call "liquid". And 25m isn't exactly a lot, considering there are almost 31b coins out there. Don't blame the guy for wanting to take some profits off the table. Instead, blame people for not having enough buy orders.

At 240 level, there were no buyers of consequence left.

If we want ZEIT to function as a proper market, we need VOLUME and PRICE. What we need is to look at a coin like MOON and ask ourselves WHY they have so much volume and WE DONT.

[Rent_a_Ray]

Q3: It's as safe than us doing this manually with coin control
Q4: It's like when we use coin control to merge our coin to form bigger blocks, but automatic ^^

I don't agree; a rule based code cannot have the same security like manual randomized actions - but I will have a look at Tranz' code. For the moment the evidently POS chaos makes sense for me.
Whatever, 2.0.1.6 will not have such a feature -  but it's bookmarked... ;-)

wait you're asking us?

Who else should I ask? I'm no magician, if someone wants a "autocombine" feature he should be able to explain how it works

Cheers

[kiklo]

And any plan to get auto combine coin when they mint ?

Just checked my wallet, and more than 2000 inputs of about 200 to 700 zeit that are from date between september 2014 to december 2014 for like 3M zeit that will never stake  

With automatic combine coin to a minimal/max amount we wont have to worry about our coins everydays, will limit number of input on our wallet and save some cpu usage, and we won't lost coin that don't stake coz they're too old or too small

Actually there already is a feature in zeit.
If a block does not stake within 40 days of creation, it will not split in 2 blocks, it forms 1 new block with the previous amount and the stake interest is added to it.

As our network changes the amount that will not split will automatically update as our need for blocks change. If you keep small amounts of coins in a block , then leaving the wallet online as much as possible to stake them. I been testing blocks with only 100 per block and leave the wallet up 24x7 and one staked in less then 30 days & split. Since we are competing for stake, leave your wallet open 24x7 until it stakes, or use coin control and merge your amounts into blocks with 50,000 coins per block , those will usually stake within 3 or 4 days after the 20 day mark.

Using automatic combine coin where everyone coins are a set amount say 100 or even 1000 per block, would make little difference, as then everyone's would be competing for stake near the same weight, you would still have to use coin control if you wanted to stake quickly.

 


FYI:
The more blocks staking the more secure our Zeit Network.
Blocks with higher amounts will stake faster, but do not secure the network as much.
Autocombine or Groupstake weakens the security of any coin that uses it, as it automatically lowers the number of staking blocks.

2nd FYI:
Some of those other coins have also implemented Inflation control.
Basically No matter the amount of coins in a block , the stake interest is capped.
So if you have 1 million coins in a block, your max stake  interest would only be on 20,000 coins.
That is their way of trying to make sure their are enough blocks to keep the network secure.
So they have basically made sure your blocks stay under 20,000 coins if you want to earn full stake.
You can't have an autocombine/groupstake without inflation control to try and keep the network secure.
So you can see why we don't need or want autocombine/groupstake as it requires control to be placed elsewhere to keep the network secure. Better to let the network finds it's own balance, than for us to control it.

[Zels]

Wallet is running 24/7 since Zeit was launch a day 1

Still, have inputs that are 6 months old. You was really lucky with your 100 coin block that stake after only 30 days 
I really have better things to do that combine my block myself with coincontrol everyday to avoid having soo much small block.

It's not normal or a nice "feature" to have a wallet who's not able to merge block in bigger amount or if we keep coins for a really long time, most of them won't stake anymore 

I don't care to have block that stake quicker than other users, just want to have all my block to be able to stake in the range of 20 - 30days without using coin control everydays or having half of them not staking coz they're too small if i do nothing.

You want more people to use zeit, provide them a wallet more user friendly that they don't have to monitor everydays
Most of them won't understand anything from coincontrol or why they can't sent xx amount of theyr coin because transactions is too big to be proceeded coz it's full of tiny inputs

Zeit: I have to use coincontrol everydays to combine my block of days -1, and all my old block not stacking that i didn't checked before this week
HBN: Haven't touch coin control for 2 months now and wallet make block of 20(minimum) - 40(max) HBN alone and it's staking really well everydays

[kiklo]

@Zels
Whatever Amount is set for the minimum , will then become the one that does not stake within 30 days.
Because it will be the new low for everyone.
Inflation control will be required, then you will have to keep the amount in the blocks below a certain number so you don't lose stake.
It switches having to watch the lower amounts, to having to the watch the higher amounts.

Coin control would only be needed on yours maybe twice a year , if you set amount per block to 50,000 and let it split until it was below 3,000 per block.

Nothing survives without a little maintenance, the more automatic the wallet is made , the more restrictions that have to be placed on its operations.

Considering coin control only twice per year , verses having to update a checkbook ledger every time you deposit or withdraw, coin control is a whole lot less time consuming.

 

FYI:
The latest version of Hobo with the autocombine & inflation control runs a lot slower IMO opinion, than the version before, also it takes me a lot longer to stake with it since the change.

2nd FYI:
If you follow the process of autocombining in the future , what happens is this:
User has small amount in blocks which don't stake within 30 days ,
User complains manual coin control is too much work,
so dev set autocombine at 100, and sets a max stake interest per block to 20,000 coins
Now everyone at a min of 100 per block ,
after 3 months everyone at it , is not staking in 30 days
User complains, dev set autocombine to 1000, and then sets max stake interest per block to 10,000 coins.
after 3 more months ,
User complains again.
See the problem if you follow this out a few times, at the end you will only be allowed to have a specific number in each block and the rest in it will not be allowed to stake.
Plus other users are going to complain about the Max Stake Limit being to low.
It is a failed process that within 1 year will be apparent to all of the coins pushing it.

@Zeit we look forward , and this autocombine while attractive for now , will become ugly within a few months to a year.

[kiklo]

wait you're asking us?  

hey zeit dumper bet you wont do the same thing at comkort!

probably bigfern dumping his staked coins  

This coin isn't exactly what you'd call "liquid". And 25m isn't exactly a lot, considering there are almost 31b coins out there. Don't blame the guy for wanting to take some profits off the table. Instead, blame people for not having enough buy orders.

At 240 level, there were no buyers of consequence left.

Comkort Trading History
___________________________________________________________________________
Trades history
Date                    Type        Price per 1            Amount (ZEIT)        Total (LTC)
26.02.15 01:14     Buy           0.00000495 LTC   100 ZEIT                       0.000495 LTC
26.02.15 01:14     Buy           0.00000490 LTC   106416.72239089 ZEIT    0.52144194 LTC
26.02.15 01:14     Buy           0.00000349 LTC   375 ZEIT                       0.00130875 LTC
26.02.15 01:14     Buy           0.00000349 LTC   150662.92892048 ZEIT    0.52581362 LTC
26.02.15 01:14     Buy           0.00000348 LTC   253254.07286183 ZEIT    0.88132417 LTC
26.02.15 01:13     Buy           0.00000348 LTC   684410.73313144 ZEIT    2.38174935 LTC
26.02.15 01:13     Buy           0.00000348 LTC   687153.8618166 ZEIT      2.39129544 LTC
26.02.15 01:13     Buy           0.00000348 LTC   689907.98575263 ZEIT    2.40087979 LTC
26.02.15 01:13     Buy           0.00000348 LTC   692673.15082479 ZEIT    2.41050256 LTC
_____________________________________________________________________________

Cryptsy Trading History
Selling @ 180
                                                                              
2015-02-26 00:47:58   Sell   0.00000180      112000.00000000   0.20160000
2015-02-26 00:47:57   Sell   0.00000180      500000.00000000   0.90000000
2015-02-26 00:47:57   Sell   0.00000182      111000.00000000   0.20202000
2015-02-26 00:47:57   Sell   0.00000184      110000.00000000   0.20240000
_______________________________________________________________________________ _

Hmm,
Comkort buys up to 495 ,
Cryptsy sells down to 180.  

Someone failed in trading school.  

 

FYI:
For Failed Trading school guy, you will make more if you sell where there is a higher price than a lower price.  

[Rent_a_Ray]

I really have better things to do that combine my block myself with coincontrol everyday to avoid having soo much small block.

And I have better things to do than adding such a feature ;-)
POS has some security issues which are top on my list.
I was never using (manual) coincontrol and my wallet is running since the very first day. It's minting 24h a day without any break - that's exactly what I want.
I don't care about it. I have a real coin age chaos in my wallet which hopefully protects our network.

[uki]

wait you're asking us?  

hey zeit dumper bet you wont do the same thing at comkort!

probably bigfern dumping his staked coins  

This coin isn't exactly what you'd call "liquid". And 25m isn't exactly a lot, considering there are almost 31b coins out there. Don't blame the guy for wanting to take some profits off the table. Instead, blame people for not having enough buy orders.

At 240 level, there were no buyers of consequence left.

If we want ZEIT to function as a proper market, we need VOLUME and PRICE. What we need is to look at a coin like MOON and ask ourselves WHY they have so much volume and WE DONT.

Atronite, cannot agree more. I am also telling that while it is great to have many exchanges where you can trade ZEIT, what really matters in the end is liquidity. In that aspect ZEIT has still a lot of homework to do, even with respect to one of the first PnD coins ever, MOON. We have practically one exchange with reasonable volume. 36LTC of total 24h volume at Comkort ain't much and this number must improve, to have further sustainable progress.

[kiklo]

wait you're asking us?  

hey zeit dumper bet you wont do the same thing at comkort!

probably bigfern dumping his staked coins  

This coin isn't exactly what you'd call "liquid". And 25m isn't exactly a lot, considering there are almost 31b coins out there. Don't blame the guy for wanting to take some profits off the table. Instead, blame people for not having enough buy orders.

At 240 level, there were no buyers of consequence left.

If we want ZEIT to function as a proper market, we need VOLUME and PRICE. What we need is to look at a coin like MOON and ask ourselves WHY they have so much volume and WE DONT.

Atronite, cannot agree more. I am also telling that while it is great to have many exchanges where you can trade ZEIT, what really matters in the end is liquidity. In that aspect ZEIT has still a lot of homework to do, even with respect to one of the first PnD coins ever, MOON. We have practically one exchange with reasonable volume. 36LTC of total 24h volume at Comkort ain't much and this number must improve, to have further sustainable progress.

After looking at Mooncoin the only reason I could find for their volume was this,  
Nothing else stood out,  

And i Will buy everything next week  

[solarion]

______________________________________________________________________________
Proof of ZeitKnight

Name:                 solarion
Address               MsBwDu3nvBWJED3BuHrmmTHJ6tPNacsimA
Balance               1,265,185,618.254734 Zeit
______________________________________________________________________________

[ZEITCOIN]

@solarion: That was close! Excellent timing. Two days remaining.

@all:
Wallet 2.0.1.6 is available at: www.zeit-coin.net

Cheers,
Ray

[solarion]

@solarion: That was close! Excellent timing. Two days remaining.

been swamped. working for a living isn't as premium as I was led to believe. #disenfranchised

thanks for the new wallet.

[Rent_a_Ray]

solarion has Passed the Test of ZeitKnight!
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/zeit/block.dws?1173286.htm


Welcome you Sir solarion .

[solarion]

...and there was much rejoicing...

[LionOfNarnia]

...and there was much rejoicing...

Welcome to the noble order, Solarion

I did wonder where you'd got to, I must admit.

I'll PM you the essential info for our TeamSpeak channel as soon as I've posted this - there will be another 'meet-and-greet' session on Sunday evening, either 21:00 or 22:00 GMT, keep an eye on this thread for confirmation.

Hope you can join us!

[solarion]

...and there was much rejoicing...

Welcome to the noble order, Solarion

I did wonder where you'd got to, I must admit.

I'll PM you the essential info for our TeamSpeak channel as soon as I've posted this - there will be another 'meet-and-greet' session on Sunday evening, either 21:00 or 22:00 GMT, keep an eye on this thread for confirmation.

Hope you can join us!

thank you good sir knight. I shall endeavor to join the festivities.

[podizzle]

welcome zeit tycoon! also really digging the autocombine discussion.

as far as liquidity im not that impressed with mooncoin. it goes hours without a trade just as zeit does. just more volume when the trades occur. okcoin's btc/cny is the standard when it comes to liquidity. its achieved with bots and 0% trading fees.

[CoinQuest]

That was close! Wink Excellent timing. Two days remaining.

After downloading the snapshot 3 days ago my wallet is still syncing. I hope I make it in time...