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Author Topic: Lauda, MinerJones, Blazed | Missing escrow funds  (Read 25841 times)
Quickseller
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August 26, 2018, 10:22:14 PM
 #181



So I guess the question becomes, where exactly is the money raised from the altcoins? The deposits appear to be fairly well staggered, so if there was some problem with withdrawals, the deposits would logically have stopped. Further, there appears to be a withdrawal that can account for a portion of the bitcoin cash, although some of this money is also still missing.

It depends if all the altcoins went to the same exchange account, then. But that is pretty interesting...

I'm still not sure what has happened with the altcoins and the now locked/changed password exchange account. It may be that the personal owner of the account changed the details after the business was done as well...exchanges need identifying information and bank accounts attached to them.
Do you have any quotes or statements from any of the escrows (or anyone else involved in the project) that are discussing the locked exchange account? If coins were sent to an exchange and are now not accessible, this is entirely the fault of the escrow agent who sent the coins to the exchange, and he needs to cover these losses out of his personal funds.

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August 27, 2018, 03:29:03 PM
Last edit: August 27, 2018, 03:44:59 PM by Max199131
 #182

On page one of this topic I asked how much is left of the coins.  That question has never been answered.  I invested in this project.  So, I have an interest.  I voted for a refund.

Once again.

Lauda, please tell us how much of each coin is currently available for the refund.  A simple accounting of how much was sent to the project (with a date) would be nice.  If alt coins were exchanged into BTC the dates and amounts received would also be nice information to have.  If you can't answer these questions, I have to wonder how your Escrow group (CET) can even exist.  The basic idea of third party escrow is to account for ALL funds.  

If the answer to these questions exists somewhere, please point me in the right direction via a link.

Thank you.

Good luck with getting answers from Lauda&co, I've been for days asking clarifications about the amount of funds left in escrow... I never got an answer...

https://i.imgur.com/nyWfDGs.jpg

We have to be patient though, it's for our own "safety" that's she isn't telling us where the funds are...
https://i.imgur.com/9TVgzOm.jpg
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August 27, 2018, 04:21:19 PM
 #183

Have any of the escrows publicly stated the amount of recovery that will be refunded?
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August 27, 2018, 04:43:32 PM
 #184

Have any of the escrows publicly stated the amount of recovery that will be refunded?

Nop... or at least not precisely

We just know there should be 1,169.37330367 BTC left on the address 36Uh2ine6UzWGPTDYdENqS6pj6Rzx4Q67R, the escow didn't told us but that's what we found out looking at the blockchain.

Then lauda told us that the amount of left funds should be "~1400BTC" and is an approximate value  since the value of alts is fluctuating... but no exact amount or addresses where the coins are sitting has ever been told to us investors...
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August 27, 2018, 04:46:41 PM
 #185

On page one of this topic I asked how much is left of the coins.  That question has never been answered.  I invested in this project.  So, I have an interest.  I voted for a refund.

Once again.

Lauda, please tell us how much of each coin is currently available for the refund.  A simple accounting of how much was sent to the project (with a date) would be nice.  If alt coins were exchanged into BTC the dates and amounts received would also be nice information to have.  If you can't answer these questions, I have to wonder how your Escrow group (CET) can even exist.  The basic idea of third party escrow is to account for ALL funds.  

If the answer to these questions exists somewhere, please point me in the right direction via a link.

Thank you.

Good luck with getting answers from Lauda&co, I've been for days asking clarifications about the amount of funds left in escrow... I never got an answer...



We have to be patient though, it's for our own "safety" that's she isn't telling us where the funds are...


quoting for the pictures.
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August 27, 2018, 04:56:10 PM
 #186

Have any of the escrows publicly stated the amount of recovery that will be refunded?

Nop... or at least not precisely

We just know there should be 1,169.37330367 BTC left on the address 36Uh2ine6UzWGPTDYdENqS6pj6Rzx4Q67R, the escow didn't told us but that's what we found out looking at the blockchain.

Then lauda told us that the amount of left funds should be "~1400BTC" and is an approximate value  since the value of alts is fluctuating... but no exact amount or addresses where the coins are sitting has ever been told to us investors...
The etherum alone is worth 265BTC,  at current depressed prices. There isn’t any reason to transfer the ETH to an exchange if the intent was not to immediately sell for bitcoin. However with the current value of the raised eth plus the bitcoin, the total amount exceeds 1400, it is 1434 btc.

One you add in the value of the ltc (66 btc), the total is 1500 btc and is no longer “~1400”
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August 27, 2018, 04:58:18 PM
 #187

On page one of this topic I asked how much is left of the coins.  That question has never been answered.  I invested in this project.  So, I have an interest.  I voted for a refund.

Once again.

Lauda, please tell us how much of each coin is currently available for the refund.  A simple accounting of how much was sent to the project (with a date) would be nice.  If alt coins were exchanged into BTC the dates and amounts received would also be nice information to have.  If you can't answer these questions, I have to wonder how your Escrow group (CET) can even exist.  The basic idea of third party escrow is to account for ALL funds.  

If the answer to these questions exists somewhere, please point me in the right direction via a link.

Thank you.

Good luck with getting answers from Lauda&co, I've been for days asking clarifications about the amount of funds left in escrow... I never got an answer...

https://i.imgur.com/nyWfDGs.jpg

We have to be patient though, it's for our own "safety" that's she isn't telling us where the funds are...
https://i.imgur.com/9TVgzOm.jpg

quoting for the pictures.

Thank you.
I would like to add too that the first quoted message from the CEO "Ton" was "If you believe escrows wait for the spreadsheet from them", together with "Do you believe escrows or random people"...

In my opinion isn't something so risky to tell us exactly how many alts are left, but Lauda wouldn't do that for our "safety"... Is that a logic reason?

https://s33.postimg.cc/nfxktbqsf/photo5773958771100462491.jpg


And the message when we asked Lauda to tell "us" to which address/addresses the milestone were released...
https://i.imgur.com/A4aLCKL.jpg
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August 27, 2018, 05:12:49 PM
 #188

Coin   Amount   Exchange   Date
LTC   7807.588   Bittrex   03.07.17
DASH   1916.643   bittrex   04.07.17
DOGE   23577240.97   unknown   04.07.17
WAVES   31145.63   unknown   05.07.17
XRP   1325280.39   bittrex   12.08.17
ETH   6477.095   Bittrex   22.08.17
ETC   4116   unknown   22.08.18
maid         

i hope the altcoins have been sold at the same day they has been transferred to an exchange.

this "is" the minimum BTC they got when they sold the alt coins: 1016.943816 BTC

COIN   AMOUNT   DATE   EXCHANGE RATE   BTC
ETH   6477.095   11.08.17   0.089   576.461455
LTC   7807.588   03.07.17   0.016   124.921408
ETC   4126   22.Aug.18   0.0019   7.8394
DASH   1916.643   July 4, 2017   0.07   134.16501
DOGE   23577240.97   04.07.17   0.000001   23.57724097
WAVES    31145.63   05.07.17   0.0017   52.947571
XRP    1325280.39   12.08.17   0.000053   70.23986067
maid   765482   23.08.18   0.000035   26.79187

plus the BTC collected: 1590.919664
=> 2'607.86348
PLUS forks.

@ escrows: if you think this is not correct. then for god's sake show us what you have done.
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August 28, 2018, 03:52:22 AM
 #189

Wow, Viacoin MAN read this while at work

TL;DR Version
>bear market makes investors emotional and impatient
>be 1% and project agrees to refund
>proper steps take time and this sucks so people call Lauda a scam
>blame the escrow for not recklessly proceeding
>everyone pretending they wouldn't rage dump

Investors should have gotten worried when the CTO declined his stake, is he really too good of a guy to take the funds, or was it stage setting?

Who knows.

Facts are, obviously funds are safu and investors have anxiety
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August 28, 2018, 04:17:57 AM
 #190



Facts are, obviously funds are safu

I am not sure why you say this. None of the escrow agents have even acknowledged where the bitcoin is being held (it can be reasonably inferred based on the Blockchain). There appears to be about 1,000 btc unaccounted for which is worth nearly 7 million dollars.
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August 28, 2018, 02:16:16 PM
 #191

Wow, Viacoin MAN read this while at work

TL;DR Version
>bear market makes investors emotional and impatient
>be 1% and project agrees to refund
>proper steps take time and this sucks so people call Lauda a scam
>blame the escrow for not recklessly proceeding
>everyone pretending they wouldn't rage dump

Investors should have gotten worried when the CTO declined his stake, is he really too good of a guy to take the funds, or was it stage setting?

Who knows.

Facts are, obviously funds are safu and investors have anxiety


Non-sense.



Single line version

You might get merits; try again and harder.

It's funny how 0 merit accounts keep popping here for paw-licking merits and acting like psychophants.
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August 28, 2018, 02:33:07 PM
 #192

Wow, Viacoin MAN read this while at work

TL;DR Version
>bear market makes investors emotional and impatient
>be 1% and project agrees to refund
>proper steps take time and this sucks so people call Lauda a scam
>blame the escrow for not recklessly proceeding
>everyone pretending they wouldn't rage dump

Investors should have gotten worried when the CTO declined his stake, is he really too good of a guy to take the funds, or was it stage setting?

Who knows.

Facts are, obviously funds are safu and investors have anxiety


Non-sense.



Single line version

You might get merits; try again and harder.

It's funny how 0 merit accounts keep popping here for paw-licking merits and acting like psychophants.
I don’t think this is about merit. I think it is more likely this is trying to create a false narrative about the situation.
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August 28, 2018, 03:33:48 PM
 #193

Wow, Viacoin MAN read this while at work

Why you talk of yourself in 3rd person? Which kind of problems you have?

Just for your info, it's one month that this charade is going on and we still havent got the amount of BTC we will be entitled to receive...
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August 28, 2018, 03:44:31 PM
 #194



and the website did not have an update. why? i think they will blame nemgun or say that they have to wait for the return of yanni.


and now this on telegram "Ton" wrote:
Quote
escrows are trying to process it fast but we have an important problem
the domain NVO.io needs be under the control of escrows while they are processing the refund. It's under imed boudali's ownership right now
we need to file a complaint to the registrar to take it down so it can't be abused while the refund is processed and everyone is updated through 1 channel
some people still check the website for updates and they may not know this is going on. It's seriously problematic.
If people don't know about the current situation they will come back thinking they received random BTC out of nowhere, NVST can still be traded and come back to see another crowdsale being done through the NVO.io website fraudulently.
This is a security risk we cannot overlook. We need the domain back to make sure NVST can't be traded after the refund and everyone is updated regarding the situation

=> Delay.
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August 28, 2018, 04:25:21 PM
 #195

I have nothing to do with this ICO or escrow.

Just a couple of observations and suggestions that have already been mentioned in this thread:

These escrows must have been chosen for a reason - combined reputation of many trades and escrows.

I understand at least most of the funds are in a multisig account.

Perhaps a time-frame should be set for an audit to be completed. (If one hasn't been set already)

Multiple currencies were involved and some were traded on exchanges. So it is a bit more complex than it sitting in a single account.

Perhaps a list of known values that can be easily verified can be compiled from the information already available in the thread.

Then someone senior could be appointed to audit the rest in the agreed time-frame.

A list of values with edited out details could be provided - that wouldn't involve identifying anyone.

Delays can be annoying but I cannot see these escrow agents risking their long-term reputation.


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August 28, 2018, 05:11:49 PM
 #196

Wow, Viacoin MAN read this while at work

Why you talk of yourself in 3rd person? Which kind of problems you have?

Just for your info, it's one month that this charade is going on and we still havent got the amount of BTC we will be entitled to receive...
An Alt of merit abuser, may be he losing his reputation on the original account.

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August 29, 2018, 06:15:55 AM
 #197

I have nothing to do with this ICO or escrow.
Me Too

Quote
Just a couple of observations and suggestions that have already been mentioned in this thread:
These escrows must have been chosen for a reason - combined reputation of many trades and escrows.
True; they do have good rep.
Quote
I understand at least most of the funds are in a multisig account.
Assumption; not confirmed.

Quote
Perhaps a time-frame should be set for an audit to be completed. (If one hasn't been set already)
Good point; but escrows don't look to be cooperating on this front as apparently they haven't discussed an audit in this thread even though suchmoon made quite a few good observations on this point.

Quote
Multiple currencies were involved and some were traded on exchanges. So it is a bit more complex than it sitting in a single account.
Very True
Quote
Perhaps a list of known values that can be easily verified can be compiled from the information already available in the thread.
None of the info available here is verified by escrows; all is deduction or hearsay. Also, the escrows ain't willing to give any concrete detail; which compounds the suspicion.

Quote
Then someone senior could be appointed to audit the rest in the agreed time-frame.
Any suggestions? Also, will the escrows agree?

Quote
A list of values with edited out details could be provided - that wouldn't involve identifying anyone.

Apparently, the escrows are not in the mood for any transparency on this front. I dunno why or how it can compromise the identity.

Quote
Delays can be annoying but I cannot see these escrow agents risking their long-term reputation.
They shouldn't be risking their reputation by operating in convoluted secrecy; security of funds is a priority; but an audit wouldn't involve handing over the pvt keys. Dunno why escrows are silent on this. Huh
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August 29, 2018, 05:52:08 PM
 #198


They shouldn't be risking their reputation by operating in convoluted secrecy; security of funds is a priority; but an audit wouldn't involve handing over the pvt keys. Dunno why escrows are silent on this. Huh

They are silent because they have decided to be shady, to don't make any audit or give us (investors) any proof whatsoever of their behaviour...

it's news from yesterday that Lauda "communicated" the amount we will be entitled to receive... No proof, nothing... just a number that as much as I know can be totally made up, no answers to my question... I just asked politely if it was true that the alts were sent to bittrex and other exchanges within one month from ICO end, no answer...
According to her this thread and accusation is just garbage made up from the NVO discord members...


If you ask questions in the telegram chat, the trolls from Ton and Ton himself will start bashing and insult you like you are some retarded kid... I have been personally called troll by the "CEO" and then banned...
I told him I was gonna give him proof that I hold more than 10k nvst in my wallet... to which he replied insulting me a bit more...
I sign a message from my counterpary wallet with my nvst address attached and sent it to the community manager... I'm still banned in that chat...
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August 29, 2018, 06:01:13 PM
 #199

well, the refund "will" happen.

Quote
ton, [29 Aug 2018 at 00:21:11]:
The final refund amount is 1,393.94415407 BTC[1], which correlates to the initial estimate of ~1400 BTC. The *official* timeline is as follows:

1) Thursday, August 30 - Vote closes.
2) Friday, August 31 - Snapshot[2].
3) Saturday, September 1 - Refunds begin[3].
Notes:
[1] Once I have a total transaction fee estimate, this amount will be appropriately truncated at a certain decimal. This will also be mentioned in one of the following posts.
[2] The snapshot time will be random (i.e. exact time of day will not be announced) to prevent any adversary from gaming the system. Everyone is advised to remove any sell orders that you might have on the market and/or move to an appropriate wallet if necessary. If you own the private key to the address where your NVST is, then you are good to go. You, and only you, are liable in the event that you fail to adhere to adhere to this. The snapshot will be archived and a link to it will be provided to the public.
[3] The amount of time for all refunds to be processed can not be estimated. I'll be available every single day until this is completed, but each transaction requires another signatory. Every transaction will be created and verified manually. There is no room for errors.

Appendix:
1) The address 1HF9qmvVz6EMu5ihjkbstpBwAVb9jdm9Lh will be excluded from the refunds. On it are unallocated tokens which can't be distributed. This issue stems from a chain of events which led to essentially what I'd call, theft of both the NVO domain and the database. The amount on it is 449,660.58536489 NVST, which represents 2.9977372357659333% of the supply. The exact percentage of the refund balance, which is 41.78678295 BTC will be set aside until a solution to this issue is found. I have decided to not let this issue delay the refund.
2) Therefore, the amount of issued tokens is 15 000 000 - 449,660.58536489 = 14 550 339.4146. The amount of BTC that will be refunded over this amount is 1,393.94415407 - 41.78678295 = 1352.15737112. This represents a rate of 0.00009292961 BTC/NVST. Example ~ refund amounts:
1k NVST -> 0.09292961 BTC.
10k NVST -> 0.9292961 BTC.
100k NVST -> 9.292961 BTC.

From Lauda, escrow

what is still missing is the prove that this is the correct amount.

i dont care about the money. telegram is full of messages that you get XX.XX$ and that this is more than you have invested. But in BTC you lost 55%.
and i dont really care about this neither.

i just cant stand the ignorance and the arrogance of the escrows. and what is even worth is that a lot of people just say: "hey, I get some money back. I dont care how this was handled and calculated".

to give some money back is just a loop hole.
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August 29, 2018, 07:35:47 PM
 #200

what is still missing is the prove that this is the correct amount.

i dont care about the money. telegram is full of messages that you get XX.XX$ and that this is more than you have invested. But in BTC you lost 55%.
and i dont really care about this neither.

i just cant stand the ignorance and the arrogance of the escrows. and what is even worth is that a lot of people just say: "hey, I get some money back. I dont care how this was handled and calculated".

to give some money back is just a loop hole.

Ya, that amount is literally hundreds of BTC away from what has been determined in this thread, correct?

It seems nobody was happy with the development, so no more than 30% of the BTC should have ever been released.  They said that one of the recipients refused their share, so the amount should have actually been lower.  Then you have all the altcoins and forked coins, which made up a hefty sum that should have resulted in most of the BTC if not all being recovered for investors, no?  How they could lose 55% of their BTC while in escrow with no product to show for it is insane.  Escrows walking away with a payday in this scenario is absolutely fraudulent.  I really hope they decide to do the right thing in the end, but as has been stated on Lauda's trust feedback long ago, "Sometimes hope for betterment is wasted."


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