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Author Topic: Lauda, MinerJones, Blazed | Missing escrow funds  (Read 25841 times)
suchmoon
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August 24, 2018, 04:48:46 PM
 #161

Dude, you are nuts.  I don't know if you spend too much time drinking the cool-aid or what, but I have earned more trust than anyone else on this site.  I wouldn't risk my reputation to make something up about a documented extortionist who is doing an excellent job of showing his incompetence and inability to be transparent without any assistance from me.

I have provided a couple of examples where your self-proclaimed reputation doesn't mean shit when someone gets under your thin skin.

What part of, "I wouldn't touch this dumpster fire" did you think was me volunteering?  Amazing how this type of situation can happen, and some members want to make it about me.

The part where you insisted that you can be trusted with this. Sorry for misinterpreting that as you willing to do an audit.

In order to get the maximum amount of activity points possible, you just need to post once per day on average. Skipping days is OK as long as you maintain the average.
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vlom
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August 24, 2018, 05:08:51 PM
Last edit: August 24, 2018, 06:17:12 PM by vlom
 #162

The time-stamp for the conversion rates is: 19:00 UTC - 28/06/2017.

The total funds raised per currency:
BTC: 1590.919664
LTC: 7807.588
XRP: 1325280.390
ETH: 6477.095
MAID: 765482
DASH: 1916.643
WAVES: 31145.630
DOGE: 23577240.970
ETC: 4126.090

Conversion rates per currency into BTC*:
BTC: 1
LTC: 0.01688190
XRP: 0.00010822
ETH: 0.12242700
MAID: 0.00019581
DASH: 0.07139310
WAVES: 0.00167559
DOGE: 0.00000109
ETC: 0.00760768

Total BTC raised (at these exchange rates): 3055.120324
Total USD raised at the BTC-USD price (Bitstamp): 7790556.826

This means that any price changes for you, as an investor, no longer matter. You can use these numbers to estimate the number of tokens that you will receive.

Have a look at the amount of ETH.
The amount (6477.095) is the "same" (fees and the amount at this address) as this address (0x3EAE795303522b8FBff85bB113E2EE4eabfAce9A) has sent to Bittrex_2-Wallet.

This address was posted here:
And these are the altcoin escrow addresses, the dates they were created and the initial balances:

CoinAddressDate createdBalance
DASHXvL4uRRnwhwDiCUTSJB4Kp2JeWom9ZBkrC2017-07-02 04:34:381,916.58818631 dash
DOGEDLN2kTLDiMm6qsGoR1uCgPm1sZqa3ouxzF2017-07-04 14:36:3423,580,328.23162458 doge
ETH0x3EAE795303522b8FBff85bB113E2EE4eabfAce9A2017-08-08 06:36:206,478.235883 eth
ETC0x00d3B8f4739870D66383e15C4693CEd012178ba110 Aug 2017, 10:534,126.0107 ETC
LTCLiUAhNeKWXEC2Kj875QGM4inoPEXiPhw2w2017-07-01 22:48:077,807.37375203 LTC
maidsafecoin1Mt7MCS6b6hemmL63hZjAdLtbqxCVmh2CZ11/27/2016 7:42:57 AM765,482 maid
waves3PB7m9gLbUs3VVQEKkSuWL4QTvc4xg3UvGC2017-07-05 11:15:1531,108.76280603 waves
ripplerwdLr5vj7tg63FrEN7hdJaVQVPHieXgBAL2017-08-08 15:451,270,586 xrp


Thats why i think the addresses posted could be the correct ones.

EDIT: outgoing txs made:
380 days 22 hrs ago => August 11th 2017
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August 24, 2018, 05:19:01 PM
Last edit: August 24, 2018, 06:17:41 PM by vlom
 #163

same for
LTC: 7807.588

https://chainz.cryptoid.info/ltc/address.dws?LiUAhNeKWXEC2Kj875QGM4inoPEXiPhw2w.htm
Received   7,807.37375203 LTC   in 5 transactions
2017-07-03 14:08:03 Sent   7,807.37375203 LTC   in 1 transactions
=> LeAMJhCuZzeSU4ujoFMHvu24XmymaeDiZP BITTREX

and
ETC
4126
http://gastracker.io/addr/0x00d3b8f4739870d66383e15c4693ced012178ba1

transactions made 21 Aug 2018 and 22 Aug 2018.

10 => 0xcf3EEEE335532c8774b7F98B5c91FaE367a09959
Rest => 0xFdD5fCE9CF322b707a3DCC08c166C46dEEcB0767

EDIT:
0xFdD5fCE9CF322b707a3DCC08c166C46dEEcB0767 = exchange?
0xcf3EEEE335532c8774b7F98B5c91FaE367a09959 = wallet of escrow?
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August 24, 2018, 05:25:37 PM
 #164

same for
LTC: 7807.588

https://chainz.cryptoid.info/ltc/address.dws?LiUAhNeKWXEC2Kj875QGM4inoPEXiPhw2w.htm
Received   7,807.37375203 LTC   in 5 transactions
Sent   7,807.37375203 LTC   in 1 transactions

and
ETC
4126
http://gastracker.io/addr/0x00d3b8f4739870d66383e15c4693ced012178ba1


You should post the dates of the transfers to an exchange and if you can find it, the /btc price so we can try to calculate the total amount of bitcoin and eventually the amount of missing money.
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August 24, 2018, 05:27:19 PM
 #165

You should post the dates of the transfers to an exchange and if you can find it, the /btc price so we can try to calculate the total amount of bitcoin and eventually the amount of missing money.

or somebody could help so that i dont have to take care of all the altcoins.
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August 24, 2018, 05:43:53 PM
 #166

DASH XvL4uRRnwhwDiCUTSJB4Kp2JeWom9ZBkrC 2017-07-02 04:34:38 1,916.58818631 dash

CryptoID says it's a Bittrex address:

https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/address.dws?XvL4uRRnwhwDiCUTSJB4Kp2JeWom9ZBkrC.htm

Perhaps more likely this is the actual ICO address:

https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/address.dws?XvapsGYttoTw8PhdfhLYLqfVozWrhMDG2w.htm

Which would mean DASH was moved to Bittrex on July 4, 2017. This doesn't tell us when it was sold.

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August 24, 2018, 06:23:19 PM
Last edit: August 24, 2018, 06:51:45 PM by vlom
 #167

Coin   Amount   Exchange   Date
LTC   7807.588   Bittrex   03.07.17
DASH   1916.643   bittrex   04.07.17
DOGE   23577240.97   unknown   04.07.17
WAVES   31145.63   unknown   05.07.17
XRP   1325280.39   bittrex   12.08.17
ETH   6477.095   Bittrex   22.08.17
ETC   4116   unknown   22.08.18
maid         

i hope the altcoins have been sold at the same day they has been transferred to an exchange.
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August 24, 2018, 06:58:16 PM
 #168

and i found this in the https://nvohq.slack.com/



suchmoon
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August 24, 2018, 07:10:14 PM
 #169

and i found this in the https://nvohq.slack.com/

LOL, why did you remove it?  Smiley

Seemed like a list of all users and what they paid in alts and equivalent in BTC/NVST. It doesn't seem to reflect actual conversion rates, but rather the rates that were use to issue the tokens.

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August 24, 2018, 07:13:17 PM
 #170

and i found this in the https://nvohq.slack.com/

LOL, why did you remove it?  Smiley

Seemed like a list of all users and what they paid in alts and equivalent in BTC/NVST. It doesn't seem to reflect actual conversion rates, but rather the rates that were use to issue the tokens.

i did not remove it.
i thought the slack link would not work: https://nvohq.slack.com/files/U55DUK62U/F62JETMME/altstats.csv
i tried to put the content into pastebin. but it is too large.

suchmoon
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August 24, 2018, 07:23:41 PM
 #171

and i found this in the https://nvohq.slack.com/

LOL, why did you remove it?  Smiley

Seemed like a list of all users and what they paid in alts and equivalent in BTC/NVST. It doesn't seem to reflect actual conversion rates, but rather the rates that were use to issue the tokens.

i did not remove it.
i thought the slack link would not work: https://nvohq.slack.com/files/U55DUK62U/F62JETMME/altstats.csv
i tried to put the content into pastebin. but it is too large.

Yeah I tried pastebin and paste.ee - too big for either one.

Not sure how the file helps though. It certainly won't tell us the exchange rates. A quick sum over the BTC column shows 1464 BTC, which seems to match the numbers posted earlier (3055-1591).

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August 25, 2018, 05:08:37 AM
 #172

After reading this topic I got to a few points to say:

1.At first I thought the user Lauda is just using the reputation to get away with the coins.
2.Not offering the coins from any fork, I consider in any way a SCAM.
3.I have realised that Lauda was not the only escrow as so, it is not the person with 3000 BTC, just 1000 (with altcoins also).
4.I have understood and I find normal not to share specifics addresses that might reveal any idendity of investors.
5.There is a complete and continous hate arround the user Lauda.
6.The user OGnasty have no idea how an ICO works, it is just a continous hate towards Lauda.
7.The other "trusted" or older users involved in discussion are not following the logic of any event that happened or what is happening.
8.I joined the ICO telegram and there it seems to be a live and ongoing discussion that makes me to have hope.
9.Probably the problem will find a solution between the Escrows and the Core team.
10.The escrow is here just to offer the coins of the ICO, not to see if it is a success.
11.Using an exchange as escrow, it is a terrible and newbie mistake, I am dissapointed, not for the escrow, for the project owners that they have accepted something like this.

Let's wait for this madness to stop and see the solution, even if the community of the ICO is angry, if they receive the ICO, they have nothing more to complain to the escrow. It's only core team problem to solve the issue. Problems like these are happening everyday, as a developer I heard hundreds of stories but it is the second time someone told about this topic even if personally I DON'T CARE.

The only way to stop the FUD arround, that is getting nowhere and the project itself is hurted is to have public the addresses and the history of the addresses.

BUT AGAIN, I don't find it normal or ok to display any of the personal information of any of the investors, so I beg of you, until certain information or messages are sent from both sides of core team, the CTO and CEO, regarding promoting and sharing investments received information, the investigation of addresses is a bullshit.

Even more, the real ammount raised is under a big question mark and I don't get the real ammount here, regardless the BCH fork or BCI (a few dollars) or Bitcoin Private whatsoever, who had the decission to sell altcoins and why? I find this very strange and no one asked the right question, I never knew that is an escrow job to convert the altcoins to BTC. Why the altcoins were not sent directly to the projects budget?

The idea of transparency is decided in the initial contract with the escrow, if it was not settled why people should cry now about it.

Ethics, that's what is left in this crypto world. Let's not destroy the only thing that matters. Find a solution guys and stop these nonsenses
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August 25, 2018, 06:27:59 AM
Last edit: August 25, 2018, 06:39:56 AM by allahabadi
 #173

After reading all your points you come across as a Rolling Stone that has no stand whatsoever.


After reading this topic I got to a few points to say:

1.At first I thought the user Lauda is just using the reputation to get away with the coins.
2.Not offering the coins from any fork, I consider in any way a SCAM.
So?
Quote
3.I have realised that Lauda was not the only escrow as so, it is not the person with 3000 BTC, just 1000 (with altcoins also).
How did u reach this idea that it was an equal threeway split?

Quote
4.I have understood and I find normal not to share specifics addresses that might reveal any idendity of investors.
They can share escrow ones. I don't think people are interested in all contribution addresses.
Quote

5.There is a complete and continous hate arround the user Lauda.
How did u reach this conclusion? From the trust table; s/he has more greens than reds.

Quote
6.The user OGnasty have no idea how an ICO works, it is just a continous hate towards Lauda.
How does an ICO work?

I don't think there is a formula; it simply works or doesn't.

Quote
7.The other "trusted" or older users involved in discussion are not following the logic of any event that happened or what is happening.
IMHO Because the "trusted" escrows failed to engage or haven't tried to engage constructively.

Quote
8.I joined the ICO telegram and there it seems to be a live and ongoing discussion that makes me to have hope.
I have read in the thread that most people who had contentious questions were booted; so obviosuly it is a happy orgy out there.

Quote
9.Probably the problem will find a solution between the Escrows and the Core team.

And the investors?

Quote
10.The escrow is here just to offer the coins of the ICO, not to see if it is a success.
I didn't know OG or anyone else blamed them for failure of ICO.

Quote
11.Using an exchange as escrow, it is a terrible and newbie mistake, I am dissapointed, not for the escrow, for the project owners that they have accepted something like this.
Ddi the escrows confirm this? I think it was a multisig wallet all along. Do u mean the alts or BTC?

Quote
Let's wait for this madness to stop and see the solution, even if the community of the ICO is angry, if they receive the ICO, they have nothing more to complain to the escrow.
And how will they receive the ICO? They obviously wouldn't complain if they feel that thy have received a fair share.

Quote
It's only core team problem to solve the issue. Problems like these are happening everyday, as a developer I heard hundreds of stories but it is the second time someone told about this topic even if personally I DON'T CARE.
You wrote a mightly lengthy essay for someone WHO DOESN'T CARE. Bugger off.

Quote
The only way to stop the FUD arround, that is getting nowhere and the project itself is hurted is to have public the addresses and the history of the addresses.
Obviously none of the others are demanding cute cat pics of the pussy. People are demanding an audit, which is a one word response to what you are saying.
Quote
Even more, the real ammount raised is under a big question mark and I don't get the real ammount here, regardless the BCH fork or BCI (a few dollars) or Bitcoin Private whatsoever, who had the decission to sell altcoins and why? I find this very strange and no one asked the right question, I never knew that is an escrow job to convert the altcoins to BTC. Why the altcoins were not sent directly to the projects budget?
Most of us have these questions and even OG who doesn't understand things is asking these; so he must be understanding something to ask the right questions of the perpetually hated pussy.  Roll Eyes

Quote
The idea of transparency is decided in the initial contract with the escrow, if it was not settled why people should cry now about it.
I can't read aramaic; Can u?
Quote
Ethics, that's what is left in this crypto world. Let's not destroy the only thing that matters. Find a solution guys and stop these nonsenses
I didn't knew u r a budding politician. Talking things tht have no relevance whatsoever.
In an ethical world; you wouldn't need escrows.


P.S. I'm not an alt.




EDIT:
Quote
You wrote a mightly lengthy essay for someone WHO DOESN'T CARE. Bugger off.

I am the only one here that is bored?

I dunno about that; but definitely the only Bored one who is apparently very interested in commenting on the go.

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August 25, 2018, 06:37:15 AM
 #174

Quote
You wrote a mightly lengthy essay for someone WHO DOESN'T CARE. Bugger off.

I am the only one here that is bored?
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August 25, 2018, 08:32:19 AM
 #175

So alt coins were personally held and exchanged out of multi-sig by any of the three escrows...
Lauda is saying they had the least amount of alts to personally manage.

The escrow coins were moved from one multi-sig to another for an unknown reason.

Nobody is signing any addresses from anything for seemingly logical and at the same time seemingly illogical reasons.

60% was supposed to go to the devs (2 founders) but one founder ended up not wanting his 15% two times in a row...

There was an extra 50% of remaining funds (20% of total funds) gained from forks as lauda said. This would bring the total to 60%, but the other co-founder sounds like he is contractually titled to 30%, unless he said explicitly that he never wanted to have that money at a later time, to which it would then be refund money. The fork money, particularly BCH, seems to have some discrepancy that isn't accounted for even at the lowest possible price or sale. It appears Lauda said that the guy who is in charge of the exchange account (allegedly), who has locked them out (allegedly), wanted 25 BTC to send to 'yani' from the BCH funds...

And nobody has any solid evidence of anything, so this is all literally he said she said and speculative because allegedly the records of the BCH can't be obtained, which is rather concerning just in itself.

So it's looking like a 60% refund will be issued if the other co founder who delayed/refused their 30% does end up getting their 30% of the total funds.

100% - 60% (co founders) + 20% (forked coin) = 60% gross investment

And these numbers are absolutely huge. Even a 1% discrepancy is like $80,000 at current prices LOL. So I assume the accounting will have to be a lot more precise than 100-60+20 when this thing shakes out.

Let me know if I missed anything. And even multi-sig seems to suck complete ass.
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August 25, 2018, 07:45:01 PM
 #176

Coin   Amount   Exchange   Date
LTC   7807.588   Bittrex   03.07.17 14:08
DASH   1916.643   bittrex   04.07.17 15:36
DOGE   23577240.97   unknown   04.07.17
WAVES   31145.63   unknown   05.07.17
XRP   1325280.39   bittrex   12.08.17
ETH   6477.095   Bittrex   22.08.17
ETC   4116   unknown   22.08.18
maid         

i hope the altcoins have been sold at the same day they has been transferred to an exchange.
LTC Low - 0.0177 High - 0.0216 Value - 138.194 - 168.643
DASH Low - 0.06548 High - 0.087383 Value - 125.459 - 167.48
DOGE Low - 90SAT High 103 SAT - Value - 21.219 - 24.28
WAVES
XRP Low - 0.00003496 High - 0.00005027 Value - 46.33 - 66.62
ETH Low - 0.0741 High - 0.085 Value 479.95 - 550.55
ETC - Low - 0.0034117 High 0.003994 Value - 14.04 - 16.43
Total: 895.79 - 994.00 BTC



Above is the low and high prices of the various alts within 7 days of the above stated dates the alts were transferred to an exchange.

A review of the blockchain reveals the BTC likely ended up in this address: 36Uh2ine6UzWGPTDYdENqS6pj6Rzx4Q67R from 3AiGej11G8jUXvEBPvQKPLiHXC7ruUCp1Z originally. There are small amounts of bitcoin beyond what can be traced directly from the original 1590 BTC raised, however they are nowhere near any of the amounts any of the alts would reasonably have been sold for.

So I guess the question becomes, where exactly is the money raised from the altcoins? The deposits appear to be fairly well staggered, so if there was some problem with withdrawals, the deposits would logically have stopped. Further, there appears to be a withdrawal that can account for a portion of the bitcoin cash, although some of this money is also still missing.

None of the escrows have publicly confirmed any information, and have given what is essentially non-answers to questions regarding this situation.

I believe the underlying reason for the lack of transparency is the missing funds from the sale of altcoins. I can somewhat account for the difference between the 1590 in BTC raised and the current 1169 held in 36Uh2ine6UzWGPTDYdENqS6pj6Rzx4Q67R as payments to the founders, as the ICO terms said they would get a certain percentage after the ICO was over, although I would want more evidence and information before saying no bitcoin has been misappropriated.
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August 26, 2018, 05:49:06 AM
 #177



So I guess the question becomes, where exactly is the money raised from the altcoins? The deposits appear to be fairly well staggered, so if there was some problem with withdrawals, the deposits would logically have stopped. Further, there appears to be a withdrawal that can account for a portion of the bitcoin cash, although some of this money is also still missing.

It depends if all the altcoins went to the same exchange account, then. But that is pretty interesting...

I'm still not sure what has happened with the altcoins and the now locked/changed password exchange account. It may be that the personal owner of the account changed the details after the business was done as well...exchanges need identifying information and bank accounts attached to them.
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August 26, 2018, 07:48:53 AM
 #178

I'd help if I had time, and more importantly, if I thought it would actually help accomplish something. But I don't think me doing some sort of audit here would accomplish anything in this situation as it would rely on someone trusting me to accept the information and I doubt all of the astute ICO investors here care much about my opinion. And really, I'd rather not be the sole person enveloping myself in any financial matters that Lauda is involved with, or others for that matter.

Generally speaking, I always prefer escrows using methods which allow for public transparency and being able to show and track the amounts, and movements, of all invested funds.

:-: Bitcointalk Public Information Project (BPIP) :-: New stats, new reports, new design, new parsers, and more!
Don't be obsessed with your desires. The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote, 'A flute with no holes, is not a flute... and a donut with no hole, is a Danish.' He was a funny guy.
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August 26, 2018, 10:01:58 AM
 #179

where the money went after the altcoins have been sold for BTC is a question that has to be answered from the escrows before the make the refund.
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August 26, 2018, 01:43:20 PM
Merited by suchmoon (4), OgNasty (1)
 #180

On page one of this topic I asked how much is left of the coins.  That question has never been answered.  I invested in this project.  So, I have an interest.  I voted for a refund.

Once again.

Lauda, please tell us how much of each coin is currently available for the refund.  A simple accounting of how much was sent to the project (with a date) would be nice.  If alt coins were exchanged into BTC the dates and amounts received would also be nice information to have.  If you can't answer these questions, I have to wonder how your Escrow group (CET) can even exist.  The basic idea of third party escrow is to account for ALL funds. 

If the answer to these questions exists somewhere, please point me in the right direction via a link.

Thank you.
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