Libertarians Are Sociopaths

[cbeast]

Great, so everyone but Red is all for publicly funded education and healthcare. Those two things go a long way to creating a powerhouse economy and a prospering middle class.

Another beautiful fallacy. Being against coercively funded education or healthcare != conservative.

Keep them coming.

I'm also against coercively funded food and shelter, but I bet you are too.

Publicly != coercively. Nice try.

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[Rassah]

There have been dozens of studies like this.

http://psychcentral.com/news/2007/09/10/brains-of-liberals-conservatives-may-work-differently/1691.html

The work, to be reported today in the journal Nature Neuroscience, grew out of decades of previous research suggesting that political orientation is linked to certain personality traits or styles of thinking. A review of that research published in 2003 found that conservatives tend to be more rigid and closed-minded, less tolerant of ambiguity and less open to new experiences. Some of the traits associated with conservatives in that review were decidedly unflattering, including fear, aggression and tolerance of inequality. That evoked outrage from conservative pundits.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/28/conservatives-fear-center-brain/

A study at University College London in the UK has found that conservatives’ brains have larger amygdalas than the brains of liberals. Amygdalas are responsible for fear and other “primitive” emotions. At the same time, conservatives’ brains were also found to have a smaller anterior cingulate — the part of the brain responsible for courage and optimism.

That's conservative. Fuck conservatives with a large pineapple. Communists were conservatives. Libertarians seem anything but conservatives. Pro-let everyone do what they want and be who they want to be is just about as opposite of conservativism as you can get.

[BitterTea]

Publicly != coercively. Nice try.

I assumed by "publicly funded" you meant "tax funded". If you don't think taxes are coercive, what happens when an individual doesn't pay it?

[cbeast]

Publicly != coercively. Nice try.

I assumed by "publicly funded" you meant "tax funded". If you don't think taxes are coercive, what happens when an individual doesn't pay it?

Taxation without representation is immoral. In a Representative Republic, we make laws that require taxes for funding in order to keep society progressive. If you don't pay taxes, then you are expecting to live in a society that provides for your safety and health and offer nothing in return. My momma didn't raise me that way. Did yours?

[BitterTea]

Publicly != coercively. Nice try.

I assumed by "publicly funded" you meant "tax funded". If you don't think taxes are coercive, what happens when an individual doesn't pay it?

Taxation without representation is immoral. In a Representative Republic, we make laws that require taxes for funding in order to keep society progressive. If you don't pay taxes, then you are expecting to live in a society that provides for your safety and health and offer nothing in return. My momma didn't raise me that way. Did yours?

My mom raised me to not use force except in self defense. Not even to raise tax money. Did yours?

[cbeast]

Publicly != coercively. Nice try.

I assumed by "publicly funded" you meant "tax funded". If you don't think taxes are coercive, what happens when an individual doesn't pay it?

Taxation without representation is immoral. In a Representative Republic, we make laws that require taxes for funding in order to keep society progressive. If you don't pay taxes, then you are expecting to live in a society that provides for your safety and health and offer nothing in return. My momma didn't raise me that way. Did yours?

My mom raised me to not use force except in self defense. Not even to raise tax money. Did yours?

What "force" are you talking about? Fines? Bankruptcy? If someone makes an honest mistake and fails to pay taxes, they are rarely jailed. Fraud on the other hand hurts people and should be punished severely.

[MoonShadow]

I currently do so. I do not understand its relevance with regards to my involvement in this thread..

You seemed to express incredulity that education for the poor could be provided voluntarily. I was suggesting that since you and others currently voluntarily do so, or at least would voluntarily do so if they were not forced to do so, that they would continue to do so without being forced.

I expressed incredulity that anyone would be so naive as to think that the little bit of volunteering is anywhere near sufficient to compare to public institutions, or that poor people can afford any sort of education at all.

It worked fine before public funded education took over the religious imperative to educate children.  Still would, if the government would get out of the way.  Public education isn't about education, it's about social indoctrination.  Always has been, and the early proponents were pretty open about that.  They were, predominately, pro-eugenics fascists; before those were "bad".  They honestly believed that the lower classes needed to be 'indoctrinated' and acclimatized to the industrial factory work. 

It sounds like serfdom to me. Anyone who truly believes that the poor can pick up and educate themselves has never spent time in a third world country...or the southeastern united states.

They can and will, if that is what is left to them.  Some will fail, obviously; or be failed by their parents.  There is nought that public education is going to do to stop such trend, if the US is in long term decline.  For that matter, they have been trying to do exactly that since truancy laws were introduced to the US; and moreso since the Department of Education was established, and have always failed.  Try as they (and you) might, with the best of intentions, you cannot educate those who do not see value in it.  I attended a private school my entire childhood, at great expense to my parents, because of the sorry state of publicly funded education; yet the private schools are still modeled after the public institutions.  They end up that way because of efficiency.  My children are homeschooled, mostly by my wife who has a BS in Biology.  They make me look ignorant.  The major difference is that they don't spend hours each day in educational theater, surrounded by peers who do not wish to participate in the soul-crushing day-prison.  Ever wonder how a well behaved child can be a discipline nightmare at school?  It's often a direct result of the educational environment itself.

I would keep doing supplemental tutoring with four children who have nothing. I don't think my meager efforts would save them if they weren't allowed a public education.

Good for you, but don't delude yourself about their education.  Your efforts would be fruitless if not for their own efforts and the desires of their parents.  The average homeschooled child spends only 2-3 hours each day actually working on intentionally educational work.  So if you think about it, the truly successful students who are institutionally educated (public or private) are being homeschooled by their involved parents anyway.  It's just under the direction of the institution.

[MoonShadow]

Publicly != coercively. Nice try.

I assumed by "publicly funded" you meant "tax funded". If you don't think taxes are coercive, what happens when an individual doesn't pay it?

Taxation without representation is immoral.

So is representation without taxation, if you think about it.

[cbeast]

Publicly != coercively. Nice try.

I assumed by "publicly funded" you meant "tax funded". If you don't think taxes are coercive, what happens when an individual doesn't pay it?

Taxation without representation is immoral.

So is representation without taxation, if you think about it.

Whuuuhhhh!?!?

[Red]

So is representation without taxation, if you think about it.

I heard a brilliant lecture about this concept and its relationship to African governments and foreign aid. It basically pointed out that many African countries have representative government without taxation. The government and its salaries are paid with foreign aid. As such, the government tends to answer to foreigners rather the people it was supposed to represent.

[cbeast]

So is representation without taxation, if you think about it.

I heard a brilliant lecture about this concept and its relationship to African governments and foreign aid. It basically pointed out that many African countries have representative government without taxation. The government and its salaries are paid with foreign aid. As such, the government tends to answer to foreigners rather the people it was supposed to represent.

Yeah, they always use extreme examples like war-zones and Hitler. Gimme a break. Now you compare democracies with places like Somalia. Fail.

[Red]

Yeah, they always use extreme examples like war-zones and Hitler. Gimme a break. Now you compare democracies with places like Somalia. Fail.

What randomness are you babbling about? I didn't mention a war zone or Hitler.

The lecture I heard basically pointed out that if Bono in particular goes around pointing out how fucked up Aftrica is. And when the only pictures we see are starving, pitiful looking, victimized people. Then, no company is going to want to invest an Africa. Why on earth would they? You expect them to do their own research to find out that things really aren't so bad? When every "expert" in whole world is telling everyone these people can't possibly take care of themselves.

That means the only money flows in through aid. Which is usually given directly to the government. Which is supposed to represent the people. But what good is representing the people, when if you piss off the aid givers, nobody gets anything. So governments help the aid givers feel good about themselves. And they steal whatever they can when their not looking. Who cares! They're not stealing from the people. There're stealing from foreign governments and rich folks like Bono.

The lecture was from a native born African advocate for Africa. She wanted Bono to show the things that were working. And to encourage foreign business to start trading with local business. That way corrupt governments couldn't steal everything before it got to the people. And curiously she advocated Africans paying taxes so they would have a stake in the government.

[BitterTea]

The lecture was from a native born African advocate for Africa. She wanted Bono to show the things that were working. And to encourage foreign business to start trading with local business. That way corrupt governments couldn't steal everything before it got to the people. And curiously she advocated Africans paying taxes so they would have a stake in the government.

I feel I've seen a similar Ted talk. Was it one of these?

http://www.ted.com/talks/ngozi_okonjo_iweala_on_doing_business_in_africa.html

http://www.ted.com/talks/ngozi_okonjo_iweala_on_aid_versus_trade.html

http://www.ted.com/talks/george_ayittey_on_cheetahs_vs_hippos.html

[cbeast]

I still don't see how "representation without taxation" = immoral. Sub-Sahara African nations are surely war-torn by tribal conflicts. Let's talk about non-extreme areas of Earth, please. Howsabout Northern or Southern African countries? Any examples there where people live peacefully but don't pay taxes to support their country? If not, then on any continent?

[BitterTea]

I still don't see how "representation without taxation" = immoral. Sub-Sahara African nations are surely war-torn by tribal conflicts. Let's talk about non-extreme areas of Earth, please. Howsabout Northern or Southern African countries? Any examples there where people live peacefully but don't pay taxes to support their country? If not, then on any continent?

You'll probably get further in life if you do your own research to support your conclusions.

[cbeast]

I still don't see how "representation without taxation" = immoral. Sub-Sahara African nations are surely war-torn by tribal conflicts. Let's talk about non-extreme areas of Earth, please. Howsabout Northern or Southern African countries? Any examples there where people live peacefully but don't pay taxes to support their country? If not, then on any continent?

You'll probably get further in life if you do your own research to support your conclusions.

Are you denying tribal warfare in many Sub-Sarah African countries? That's the only assertion I have made. I am asking for any evidence that  representation without taxation" = immoral. I did not make that claim.

[RandyFolds]

I still don't see how "representation without taxation" = immoral. Sub-Sahara African nations are surely war-torn by tribal conflicts. Let's talk about non-extreme areas of Earth, please. Howsabout Northern or Southern African countries? Any examples there where people live peacefully but don't pay taxes to support their country? If not, then on any continent?

You'll probably get further in life if you do your own research to support your conclusions.

Are you denying tribal warfare in many Sub-Sarah African countries? That's the only assertion I have made. I am asking for any evidence that  representation without taxation" = immoral. I did not make that claim.

In another thread, he was arguing with me and seemed to be all for tribal warfare. It's self governance, after all.

[BitterTea]

In another thread, he was arguing with me and seemed to be all for tribal warfare. It's self governance, after all.

[Citation needed]

Hint: you're attributing positions to me which I do not hold.

[RandyFolds]

In another thread, he was arguing with me and seemed to be all for tribal warfare. It's self governance, after all.

[Citation needed]

Hint: you're attributing positions to me which I do not hold.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49179.0

This retarded thread.

[BitterTea]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49179.0

This retarded thread.

Your participation didn't help the situation. Care to point out where I advocate for tribal warfare?