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Author Topic: Thread comparison between Beginners and serious discussion  (Read 346 times)
Jet Cash
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August 23, 2018, 08:54:00 AM
 #1

On the 3rd august I started a thread in serious discussion about the Canaan mining TV,
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4812479.0
The thread received 17 replies and 169 views. 7 sMerits were awarded to posts in that thread.

On the 13th August a similar thread about the same TV was started.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4884683.0
The thread has received 104 replies and 354 views. No merits were awarded.

As a very rough guideline, for average threads that have been active for a few days, the views:posts ratio is usually around 10:1
This is a very rough guide, but I think it gives some indication of the thread quality and interest, and the significance of the board hosting the thread. Both threads contain replies from legendaries down to juniors in ranking. Obviously the beginners thread also includes newbie posting.

Should these threads have been included in either of these boards? Well they are general interest, so the answer is probably yes. I started this thread to give a possible idea of the value of the two boards for advertising revenue for the forum, and also to indicate the problems that new members have in their hunt for merits. Obviously the merit awarders may not be reading the threads on the beginners board.

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bitmover
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August 23, 2018, 10:36:40 AM
 #2

Not all posts that deserveerit receive merits. And most of them does not receive all merits they deserve.

Some of your meritable posts will be merited, but most won't.

I think this is natural.

I don't think it's a flaw on the system. Merit is something that is very subjective and sources can't read all posts, so it will happen all the time.

 the lack of sources probably intensifies this, as few people need to read lots of posts.


Should these threads have been included in either of these boards? Well they are general interest, so the answer is probably yes

Posting the same thread in more than one board? Isn't this against the rules?
I think moderators may delete one of your posts.


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Don Pedro Dinero
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August 23, 2018, 10:49:16 AM
 #3

Posting the same thread in more than one board? Isn't this against the rules?
I think moderators may delete one of your posts.

If you had clicked on the links, you would have seen that the two threads were started by two different people: Jet Cash started the one on the Serious Discussion Board and this guy started the other one.
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August 23, 2018, 11:01:15 AM
 #4

View/post ratio is good indicator of discussion's quality, when views are at least 7x higher, this means there is less spam. See other threads, there are usually 3:1 ratio.
To my mind those threads had to be in mining discussion because mining is mining and source doesn't matter.
If you want merit, then understand that when you post in thread which is abused, your quality post will get out of sight.

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August 23, 2018, 11:30:05 AM
 #5

<..>

Does it show two things: if you want to get merit, stay away from anything relevant to newbie and the curent situation of the forum: quality vs quantity?
First thread, by a legendary ranked member, 7 merits awarded, more quality comments. Second thread, by a junior ranked, double number of views, 6 times number of replies while only a half time of existence and of course ratio of quality comment over total comments is lower.

Whether you like it or not, this is what happening in the forum. Meritocracy followers prefer quality; boycott newbies & junk posters. Low ranked members try hard to earn merit, rank up, increase posts or whatsoever and care more about quality.

I started this thread to give a possible idea of the value of the two boards for advertising revenue for the forum

Not sure what an advertiser would want between quality vs quantity but I lean on the latter. Only poor for theymos, he has to balance everything.
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August 23, 2018, 12:04:37 PM
 #6

On the 3rd august I started a thread in serious discussion about the Canaan mining TV,
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4812479.0
The thread received 17 replies and 169 views. 7 sMerits were awarded to posts in that thread.

On the 13th August a similar thread about the same TV was started.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4884683.0
The thread has received 104 replies and 354 views. No merits were awarded.
Is this the new trend of merit hunters, creating a thread in a different board by following a hot potato topic from the "Serious discussion" board? We shall follow the Serious discussion board since its less spam and more informative (even though it is subjective), but creating a similar kind of thread is not ethical (at least for me). What should have been done is share the link of the original post and discuss its pros and cons, suggestions of other members while giving your views regarding that topic. Comparison of merits given away for the two threads is not proving anything to me. Because it is subjective from user to user. Sometimes reputation, user brand name what impact they have done throughout their career for the forum matters, most importantly the users who are active in the Serious discussion board are the users having more knowledge and experience in the crypto field. Just imagine what would happen if AlexTF.CCN created the Cannan mining TV thread at first place? Will that thread able to get 8 sMerits (including the OP)? I don't think so. Actually, that is the bitter truth that everybody didn't want to express. I am a fan of that truth and I'm a believer of "reputation matters" (but not in every scenario)

Quote
As a very rough guideline, for average threads that have been active for a few days, the views:posts ratio is usually around 10:1
This is a very rough guide, but I think it gives some indication of the thread quality and interest, and the significance of the board hosting the thread. Both threads contain replies from legendaries down to juniors in ranking. Obviously the beginners thread also includes newbie posting.
Isn't that bolted part dilutes the value of views: posts ratio?

Quote
Should these threads have been included in either of these boards? Well they are general interest, so the answer is probably yes. I started this thread to give a possible idea of the value of the two boards for advertising revenue for the forum, and also to indicate the problems that new members have in their hunt for merits. Obviously the merit awarders may not be reading the threads on the beginners board.
I think the thing that we should consider is which side is heavier when we put general interest of members and the problems created by merit hunters in a scale.
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August 23, 2018, 12:35:05 PM
 #7

Well, here is what happen today in the Beginners and Help section as one guy decided to repost the sncc's security guide.
See this >
this is not my post, i copy this post for beginers to. original post - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4920096.0
~

At least he mention the source in a way but still, I don't think this is acceptable, it's more like hunting for merit with someone else's work.
Seems like the new trend for merit hunters. If you translate it and post it the local section, with the permission of the author, it's OK.

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August 23, 2018, 12:38:45 PM
 #8

View/post ratio is good indicator of discussion's quality, when views are at least 7x higher, this means there is less spam. See other threads, there are usually 3:1 ratio.
I get much higher ratios in my threads, from 20:1 to more than 100:1 here. But most of my threads aren't meant for discussions, and my self-moderated delete button probably scares away most spammers before they post.

I didn't look at this ratio before, but I would have expected it to be much, much higher! A 3:1 ratio means barely anybody reads, and they only post for the sake of posting. But we knew that already of course.

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August 23, 2018, 12:55:45 PM
 #9

The Beginners board probably gets a lot more traffic than the Serious discussion board. If you check out the replies on both of the threads you posted, you will probably find some merit worthy replies in the one that is posted in Beginners section as well, but as you said, there aren't a lot of people carrying sMerits in that section to Merit those posts because most of the times people ignore these threads assuming they will be full of crap, which is true most of the times. On the other side, some people who frequently visit Beginners & Help section and they too have sMerits on them but they probably don't care to reward the posts that at least deserve to be appreciated.

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Jet Cash
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August 23, 2018, 02:09:35 PM
 #10

Thanks for the replies. Most of them seem to focus on the merit aspect of my post, and in fact that is the least interesting point for me, and I wonder if I should have included it, as it deflects attention from the signature impression point.  Most signatures here are for sig spam promotions, but I believe paid signatures should be used for affiliate promotion, and payment should be based on resulting sales. This tends to promote higher quality posting, and much better vetting of the products members promote. The 10:1 view ratio is for average/indifferent threads, and, as LoyceV points out, better posters generate more views, and those views are probably of a much higher quality. His signature obviously has a much higher earnings potential than many others.

I don't believe that the second poster in my OP used my post as a base for his thread. The link is to a different site describing the TV, and I doubt if he is even aware of my serious discussion thread.

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August 23, 2018, 04:09:55 PM
 #11

Well, here is what happen today in the Beginners and Help section as one guy decided to repost the sncc's security guide.
See this >
this is not my post, i copy this post for beginers to. original post - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4920096.0
~

At least he mention the source in a way but still, I don't think this is acceptable, it's more like hunting for merit with someone else's work.
Seems like the new trend for merit hunters. If you translate it and post it the local section, with the permission of the author, it's OK.

Actually he put it  up the original source reference so that everybody knows. I found some people deliberately put it at last even they are copying  and even forget to put it at last.

By the guidelines , all of them can be reported it is just quoting of source text (and with link) without any addition thought by OP.

The Beginners board probably gets a lot more traffic than the Serious discussion board. If you check out the replies on both of the threads you posted, you will probably find some merit worthy replies in the one that is posted in Beginners section as well.
Sometime good articles come in Beginner and help Board but they got lost with somebody asking a generic (may be dumb) questions and a rat race to answer that.  There are so many topic created in that board that lies in category of "Can be trashed " due to their duplicity but they do not got trashed.
Every Month I read same 75% duplicate  (approx) only 25% look brand new.

@JetCash
I think , if you repeat the same experiment with Serious Discussion Vs Ivory Tower, your result of views will be same.

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August 28, 2018, 04:40:16 AM
 #12

On the 3rd august I started a thread in serious discussion about the Canaan mining TV,
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4812479.0
The thread received 17 replies and 169 views. 7 sMerits were awarded to posts in that thread.

On the 13th August a similar thread about the same TV was started.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4884683.0
The thread has received 104 replies and 354 views. No merits were awarded.

I thought by posting the same thread about Bitcoin TV, at first I thought the same topic, after I read there was a difference between thread 1 and 2,
The first to discuss, this

1. WORLD’S FIRST BITCOIN MINING TV LAUNCHED BY CANAAN

And the second one discusses this.

2. Bitcoin This Week: Bithumb Suspends New Accounts, Crypto TV Will Mine While You Watch And More.

Both are almost the same but different,
So I conclude that both are very useful in Bitcoin science to beginners.
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August 28, 2018, 03:21:51 PM
Merited by Jet Cash (2), Silent26 (1), iasenko (1)
 #13

<...>

That' s due to the difference between the "quality" in both boards. As you have pointed out, in the B&H board a lot of posts are made with the only goal of counting activity, either for signature or ranking purposes. Nevertheless, the Serious Discussion board-mostly- reflects a true preoccupation in engaging in the debate, by some good posting behaviour, for posts count isn't increasing on that one.

Now, it was truly interesting to me to see the stats last week and compare the merit ratio per number of post and board. We were debating about how the Serious Discussion one is the more merited per number of posts. (More info in that discussion: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4730614.msg44566912#msg44566912)

Don' t you think that, probably, the people are just trying to copy the Serious Discussion board threads ideas because they've actually seen how merited they are? (I'm not talking about this example, but in general) Being the SD one the most merited per number of posts, then maybe a lost person can actually think that, by copying the idea and presenting it in a different board, it will be rewarded as well.

However the initial intention of the second poster was, the difference between the quality of the quotes is almost hilarious, but I am not surprised, to be honest. When joining a conversation with the only goal of gaining some activity, it is natural to see nonsense or non-worked replies. The information this very example provides us it quite obvious: when "just working" in here, the users are not willing to think, to elaborate a good speech or to work hard (time is money, I'm afraid!!!); when just "joining for pleasure" a conversation, it is obvious how the quality differs.
Besides, and despite the merit ratio wasn't your primordial approach to the matter, this example actually shows that the system is working pretty fine too: most elaborate posts, more merits. And that' s just fine.

Thanks for sharing such a great example. It illustrates really well some of the discussed problems in here.
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August 28, 2018, 03:57:18 PM
 #14

That' s due to the difference between the "quality" in both boards.
That's absolutely right. If we will just compare the topic made in Serious Discussion and Beginners&Help, even though the topic made in B&H received more replies than the one in Serious discussion, it's pretty obvious that most replies in B&H were absolutely trash. There's no doubt that some from those users just used the opportunity to post for their posts count. Though, I've read some posts that were relevant to the topic.

Also another reason is, there are only few user who were visiting Serious discussion unlike B&H which become a perfect hangout for spammers.


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T 
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Helana
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August 29, 2018, 12:37:04 AM
 #15



Also another reason is, there are only few user who were visiting Serious discussion unlike B&H which become a perfect hangout for spammers.

Precisely, to invalidate the post count seems like the very best tool to avoid spammers. Maybe it should be implemented in meta too.  Grin
haiconthanlancon
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September 09, 2018, 02:03:16 PM
 #16

I find the problem of merit really difficult for beginners. As you say "The thread received 17 replies and 169 views. 7 sMerits were awarded to posts in that thread." And me have a created of a topic, it received 1600 views and over 400 replies but no merit was given. What are the motivations for new people like me to continue to post?
Steamtyme
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September 09, 2018, 02:12:47 PM
 #17

^^

Why is your motivation tied to receiving Merits for your posts? If you come here to learn or have discussions shouldn't that be motivation enough?

That statement sounds like someone who hates their "Job" because they are not advancing  Roll Eyes

Edit: After checking out your thread, no wonder it received no merit. You have helped in providing a glaring comparison in thread quality.

LoyceV
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September 09, 2018, 02:12:50 PM
 #18

And me have a created of a topic, it received 1600 views and over 400 replies but no merit was given.
Has it crossed your mind to lock (lower-left) the thread? You're facilitating spammers to spam their signature.

Quote
What are the motivations for new people like me to continue to post?
Judging by your post history, your motivation is earning from spamming. I wouldn't mind if you get demotivated to continue.

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