How many of you have been Zhoutonged?

[cypherdoc]

as in liquidated.

[1713539508]

1713539508

[1713539508]

1713539508

[1713539508]

1713539508

[1713539508]

1713539508

[1713539508]

1713539508

[bitdragon]

I have
Put some back in and now have a realized profit of $90. Still lost overall for now.
I now trade positions smaller than my total bitcoin deposits.
Bitcoin is such a learning experience on many many levels.

[cypherdoc]

I guess no one wants to admit it

[Vladimir]

I guess no one wants to admit it

Lol, hundreds I bet. Most small time, though. Both shorts and longs. Kids do not know that playing with matches and margin is a bad idea.

[OgNasty]

I've been playing with the free dollar he gave me.  I'm up to $1.39.  I'd use the site with large amounts of my own capital if the spread was around 0.03 instead of 0.12.

[Crypt_Current]

I guess no one wants to admit it

Didn't see this til now -- yeah, my $6 was liquidated also... took a looooong time.  I learned that I am horrible (so far) at trading.  (well, horrible at predicting price without any advice from professionals [other than s3052's public info])

[cypherdoc]

I guess no one wants to admit it

Didn't see this til now -- yeah, my $6 was liquidated also... took a looooong time.  I learned that I am horrible (so far) at trading.  (well, horrible at predicting price without any advice from professionals [other than s3052's public info])

No its not you.  With so little liquidity, leverage, such wide spreads, a poor MtGox connection, and the potential to be zhoutonged, everyone loses.

[mjcmurfy]

I have not lost a penny of my money, because I have not gambled any of it away.

I have obtained the total contents of my wallet through some early attempts at mining and then (the majority) by earning it through the provision of a service to the bitcoin community. So no matter the exchange rate to fiat, I still will have a net increase in my wealth quantified by the present and future purchasing power of bitcoin.

Bitcoin margin traders will learn the hard way how NOT to make money.

[Vandroiy]

No its not you.  With so little liquidity, leverage, such wide spreads, a poor MtGox connection, and the potential to be zoutonged everyone loses.

A market where everyone loses doesn't seem very realistic to me. Where does the money go, all eaten by the magical Killa-Zilla?

@mjcmurfy: this thread is about short selling positions that have been automatically terminated (bought back) due to the rise in price today.

@thread: I don't think that short selling is large in Bitcoin, that's why nobody runs around screaming at the rise.

[mjcmurfy]

@mjcmurfy: this thread is about short selling positions that have been automatically terminated (bought back) due to the rise in price today.

I know, but I felt inclined to point out that it is difficult to get liquidated if you earn the coins properly instead of spinning them around, gambling on a leveraged zero sum game. Maybe those getting screwed over by margin trading might have more luck investing in those bitcoin ponzi games that are so popular - at least with those they can only lose what they actually "invest", so at least thats a plus, right?

There seems to be no end to the means by which gullible people are getting robbed of their wealth. You all can keep gambling and "investing" and handing your money over to luckier idiots, but I think I will stick to the traditional method I outlined above.

[Crypt_Current]

I have not lost a penny of my money, because I have not gambled any of it away.

I have obtained the total contents of my wallet through some early attempts at mining and then (the majority) by earning it through the provision of a service to the bitcoin community. So no matter the exchange rate to fiat, I still will have a net increase in my wealth quantified by the present and future purchasing power of bitcoin.

Bitcoin margin traders will learn the hard way how NOT to make money.

The $6 I put into Bitcoinica to play with it, I had converted from mined BTC 

[BitMagic]

I've not really seen any complaints about Bitcoinica, except a few withdraw problems in the main thread. What's the deal?

That's because the few people posting about their automatic liquidation knew what to expect with a service they were learning about. They might not be experts in margin trading, but that's why they're trying it out.

The real reason you're seeing what you're seeing, Holliday, is that most bulls around here love to hype price increases while claiming they're just "supporters" of the currency, not speculators. Probably because they've lost a ton in the last few months. And they know short-selling puts downward pressure on prices, which hurts their (slim) chance to recover their losses.

Basically, the existence of Bitcoinica is a problem for recent losers in the crash from $30 to $3, simply because it offers the option to short. In addition, true believers in bitcoin want to see more price stability, and Bitcoinica pulls more speculators into the mix. While that might not correlate exactly with increased volatility, it's attracting the "wrong" kinds of people to their revolutionary currency.

I don't know about you guys, but I made plenty of cash manually liquidating my short position since $6, and I'm brand new to margin trading. Quit with all the complaining and take your losses like adults.

I have not lost a penny of my money, because I have not gambled any of it away.

I have obtained the total contents of my wallet through some early attempts at mining and then (the majority) by earning it through the provision of a service to the bitcoin community. So no matter the exchange rate to fiat, I still will have a net increase in my wealth quantified by the present and future purchasing power of bitcoin.

Bitcoin margin traders will learn the hard way how NOT to make money.

The $6 I put into Bitcoinica to play with it, I had converted from mined BTC  

You guys are such idiots. It's like you thought mined coins were free, or something. And working for 2BTC/hour was a good deal.  

[BitMagic]

I see. I am a lunatic supporter of Bitcoin but I don't give two shits about the exchange rate or stability. Maybe I should avoid these sub-forums.

Well, you should probably care about stability if you care about the longevity of Bitcoin, since it's a major hurdle for merchants and other non-speculators. But if you truly, truly only care about Bitcoin's chances at being a currency, a rally or crash (excepting complete failure, of course) should mean nothing to your confidence. You won't find that mentality around here. 99% of those holding Bitcoin are praying for higher prices, because they're as profit-minded as the next speculator while saying the opposite out of the side of their mouth. Don't be that person.

[cypherdoc]

what happened to Zhoutong anyway?  he's disappeared for the last day or so. 

ah, i see.  he's busy liquidating.

[tvbcof]

...
I think your percentage is pulled out of your ass, no offense. I would assume some of the more fanatic Bitcoin fans actually enjoy low prices, allowing them to acquire more at this stage of the game.

Totally.  I've currently have several fold more BTC than I ever expected to obtain because I did not expect the price to drop this low.

It is also the case that many alternates to Bitcoin are also not ones that I consider a bastion of stability.  I try to keep my holdings of USD low as long for ethical reasons associated with the actions of the US on the world stage, and I don't have infinite trust in the stability of any fiat currency in these times.  I'm not about to have a lot of paper investments 'protected' the the SEC or the justice department generally who I consider to be blatantly colluding with criminals in the financial sector.  And my 'portfolio' is already heavy in some of the alternatives that I feel to be more sound than a lot of 'mainstream' investments.

I've publicly hoped for a drop in the price of BTC for some time now since it will allow anyone who is interested to obtain a noticeable faction of the entire currency base, and am fairly delighted that it came to be.  I will start to become uncomfortable about the viability of the Bitcoin network at some point as utilization, mining effort, etc, continue to fall off.  So I would like to see some sort of a floor be put in.

[BitMagic]

I think your percentage is pulled out of your ass, no offense. I would assume some of the more fanatic Bitcoin fans actually enjoy low prices, allowing them to acquire more at this stage of the game.

You are obviously missing the point. If you don't care about "making money" through trading Bitcoin, why could you possibly care about how "many" coins you have? The exchange rate will always take care of calculating how many you need for your uses. My point is about how 99% of people on this forum will decry speculative behavior in some form, whether it's complaining about price declines, short-sellers, or bot trading, etc., and then exhibit that behavior by discussing how great it is buying low, rallies, etc.

Can you see the cognitive dissonance?

[bitdragon]

Where did you get the quote "If you don't care about "making money" through trading Bitcoin"
I didn't find someone claiming that. I might well of missed it...

I don't get your point though and do not see the dissonance. Can someone with a dissonance realise his own dissonance?

I don't believe I have complained and appreciate the learning I gain on many levels thanks to bitcoins. I might well be in the 1% crowd but seriously doubt that.

There is no way prices are going to be stable when means of getting money into bitcoins changes all the time and fiat money toyed with intensely in many parts of the world.
My swiss franc just got thrown under a bus a few weeks ago, it's not going to be smooth.
It is a store value and a medium of exchange for goods and services, and for now most of that is done in exchange for USD.

[phelix]

[...]
And my 'portfolio' is already heavy in some of the alternatives that I feel to be more sound than a lot of 'mainstream' investments.
[...]

I would be interested in more specific info about these alternatives...  gold? real estate?

[tvbcof]

I think your percentage is pulled out of your ass, no offense. I would assume some of the more fanatic Bitcoin fans actually enjoy low prices, allowing them to acquire more at this stage of the game.

You are obviously missing the point. If you don't care about "making money" through trading Bitcoin, why could you possibly care about how "many" coins you have?

I care about 'how many' coins I have mostly as a percentage of the currency base.  Bitcoin, like gold and unlike fiat, makes that math very simple.

As for my interest in making money, I see the most ideal outcome being one where holders of the currency in the 'Satoshi' block-chain would be lucky to make a dime because the actual benefit of using currency is distributed to the users and that the Satoshi block-chain merely facilitates this.

A second possible outcome could be that Bitcoin is an ideal way to exploit people and I get stupidly wealthy off my speculation.

The most likely outcome is that the Bitcoin is rendered unusable for any combination of reasons (or was indeed born that way) and I lose everything.

The exchange rate will always take care of calculating how many you need for your uses. My point is about how 99% of people on this forum will decry speculative behavior in some form, whether it's complaining about price declines, short-sellers, or bot trading, etc., and then exhibit that behavior by discussing how great it is buying low, rallies, etc.

I don't.  I don't really see the usefulness of the Satoshi block chain as a replacement for our current fiat systems at this time as they are working fine and have a much more well developed supporting infrastructure (though I could imagine that changing rapidly at some point in the future.)  So, speculation in it's various forms plays a huge role in keeping Bitcoin alive and QA'd and developing.

Can you see the cognitive dissonance?

Yes.

[tvbcof]

[...]
And my 'portfolio' is already heavy in some of the alternatives that I feel to be more sound than a lot of 'mainstream' investments.
[...]

I would be interested in more specific info about these alternatives...  gold? real estate?

I don't see much point in being terribly specific, but those are good guesses