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Author Topic: @theymos, we want those sections back to us, new moderators? Updated.  (Read 853 times)
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September 06, 2018, 08:16:45 AM
 #21

We need Mods for those sections / more sections could be added but those are most affected by spamers/:
 
- Bitcoin Discussion - no mod
Since Flying Hellfish became a Mod on Politics & Society, that board is in a better state now than Bitcoin Discussion.
I barely go to Bitcoin Discussion because of the spam. There are a few threads I follow, but most of the bumps result in me reporting that post or getting the user banned for plagiarism.

Quote
- Off Topic - no mod
A strict Mod on this board would probably lead to much more spam on other boards. Be careful what you wish for!
I'm totally fine with ignoring this board, as long as the spammers stay there.

Quote
If you agree I'll make a list with volunteers for each section where we can vote and you will pick the ones you like
I wouldn't mind "pulling a Flying Hellfish" on Bitcoin Discussion. I'd love to claim back that board, and I'm willing to do my share.

I'd like to help moderating the Economics section but I think theymos wants for moderators people who massively report, and I don’t. I’ve only reported 85 times in one year.
With the current level of spam, it's not very difficult to report more posts than you make by yourself. Just report all the useless posts you see, it helps the forum.
I started reporting much more after seeing the report stats from other users. It made me realize I don't have to be restrictive with reports.

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September 06, 2018, 08:25:15 AM
 #22

A strict Mod on this board would probably lead to much more spam on other boards. Be careful what you wish for!
I'm totally fine with ignoring this board, as long as the spammers stay there.

I think Vod will loved being a Mod in that Section Grin
But if Theymos will pick from those who would like to volunteer, maybe I should volunteer too Wink I'm kinda feel like trolling those newbies in that section after all Cheesy
Only gaming and anime topics will be allowed Wink

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September 06, 2018, 09:08:31 AM
 #23

I still don't understand why theymos is being like the One-person company. And he lives in the US.  Undecided

Why should there be trust issues for hiring accountants and professionals? Does it have anything to do with slickage not delivering the new forum as expected or what? And there are people here on this forum who wouldn't run away with a few hundred dollars.


Here is the possible answer...
...we all know the reality for theymos.

...the people you hire turn out not to be trustworthy...


Here are some reality of other famous people:
Mark Zuckerberg - Facebook
Larry Page and Sergey Brin - Google
Steve Jobs - Apple
Bill Gates - Microsoft

PS: Sorry that I did not even care to read rest of the responses on this topic since all these suggestions and stuffs are going to be a waste eventually if theymos do not change his views.


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September 06, 2018, 10:53:28 AM
Merited by dbshck (1), DdmrDdmr (1), bitmover (1)
 #24

The economics board is terrible too.

The entire board is terrible and the longer we leave things the worse it gets and exponentially so. Signature spam has always been an issue here even back when I signed up, but it was never like it is now. The spam was tolerable and few and far between with only a handful of users that over-stepped the mark and when they did they were usually temp banned by BadBear. Now the signature spam is completely embarrassing with it being endemic and spam being the norm consisting mostly of barely comprehensible generic one or two liners made by people who don't even care about bitcoin and can't speak English very well and are only doing so for payment and likely over many multiple accounts. It's become unmanageable, but the people who need to be punished are the ICOs that are paying them to do this. If you go in Bitcoin Discussion probably eight out of every ten posts are mostly generic nonsense churned out by someone who's on an ICO campaign and doesn't really know what they're talking about. As theymos himself says, this forum shouldn't be a welfare system for people, but that's what it mostly is now. There are ways we can stop this, or at least drastically curb it, but doing nothing is only going to make it worse.

I get that theymos is busy and appreciate coding things takes time and he is probably under incredible stress with all the issues he has to deal with being the defacto executive here and there's a lot of things that go on behind the scenes that most people probably don't even consider (accounting, dealing with lawyers, the taxman, and all the other issues this forum has which he is probably doing most of by himself), but that's why he should delegate as many things as he can here to others. I get that it's not always easy handing off things that require a lot of trust but there are plenty of things theymos can do in the meantime that will help clean the board up and all it probably takes is a few clicks and minutes of his time and then others can do the work without bothering him and the forum benefits in the process. Theymos must get annoyed at all the PMs he gets about various issues so why not do things that will solve some of the many issues here and cut down the need for users pestering him which will then free up his time to do the more important things behind the scenes that only he can do? I don't even like messaging him about things these days because he rarely replies and I don't want him to get annoyed at me, but should I just give up? If that happens then the worse things get. I messaged him about adding a mod for Bitcoin Discussion on August 7th and got a response the same day with a list of the top reporters there but he never replied to me after that despite sending about 4 or 5 messages about it every week or so. krishnapramod was the top reporter there and he also busts a lot of copy and pasters so he would probably be good choice for a patroller at least (unless theymos knows something about him I don't). He's also apparently Indian so if that Local board needs another mod then that's another good reason.

If theymos or cyrus don't have the time and/or energy to restore accounts, add more mods, add merit sources or even run the forum ad auctions then that should be stuff that gets delegated to others. Adding more mods or assigning sub board mods should have been done years ago and it doesn't take much of theymos' time do so so and that's one less thing he has to worry about and the forum improves at least a little bit in the process. Also, even if theymos does implement the automatic account recovery process eventually there's still going to be people who won't be able to use it or need further investigation so another admin is probably going to be needed anyway, and at least they can help restore accounts in the meantime until that system goes live. There's also all the account and bot farming issues that need to be looked into like this. Theymos himself said more mods and admins (or demi-admins) are probably a good idea, so why not do these things now instead of putting them off?

Maybe it is a trust matters because handing a new man an authority to be near admin level means there is risk for some things, maybe like account security, etc, but i dont know for sure about that. Maybe, just maybe, hiring accountants and professionals means that

There may or may not be trust issues with adding more admins, but there's ways you can limit the power you give people to minimise the risk of potential abuse, but putting off doing things just because of potential abuse doesn't help and in fact makes things worse. If there's no one trustable here to do certain things then look at alternative ways. Hire someone externally like he has mentioned or try get BadBear back since we know at least he can be trusted to be an admin.

If theymos can't or don't want to recruit new moderator, then theymos should do something else such as disabling signature on boards with lots of spammer to punish spammer.

Such drastic measure like this shouldn't be a first option, but doing this would just push those spammers to other boards where signatures are shown. It doesn't solve the problem but just sweeps the rubbish into a different part of the house.

I'd like to help moderating the Economics section but I think theymos wants for moderators people who massively report, and I don’t. I’ve only reported 85 times in one year.

Well I would say keep reporting, but there are users with thousands upon thousands of reports that are not yet mods. I don't think anyone who does just report a shitload of posts should be automatically made a mod, but I definitely think there are some good candidates amongst those that do (unless theymos knows something about them that I don't).

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September 06, 2018, 11:42:34 AM
 #25

@hilariousetc thanks for the great analysis. I found some free time to read it all and I'm completely agree with your postion.

I'll just say that theymos is trying to reduce the bad consequences from every move he makes but considering the current forum situation I don't really see how the things can get worse even if you make not so good decisions.

Of course some moves will trigger another problems but with those we can deal later again. There's no miracle solution to all the problems no matter how long you think over the things.

And soon actions will be needed




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September 06, 2018, 12:53:49 PM
 #26

It's possible, but it can be avoided if theymos decide to pick people who want to volunteer instead. There's some people who actively combat spam and theymos could recruit them.
I think volunteerism is not enough to be appointed as a moderator. Some people only shows an act of volunteerism in order to gain reputation and later behaves like a scumbag. There should have a screening tool maybe when appointing a moderator just like becoming of a merit source.

Totally understandable, but obviously theymos/moderator review/research those who want to volunteer.

If theymos can't or don't want to recruit new moderator, then theymos should do something else such as disabling signature on boards with lots of spammer to punish spammer.

Such drastic measure like this shouldn't be a first option, but doing this would just push those spammers to other boards where signatures are shown. It doesn't solve the problem but just sweeps the rubbish into a different part of the house.

I only suggest this since there's no indication theymos will solve the problem in better way (or perhaps theymos suddenly introduce/do something again). I partially agree since few/some spammer with low effort will give up and reduce the problem.

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September 06, 2018, 02:34:42 PM
 #27

Mods have to be paid, that might be the issue here. You could find volunteers yes, but volunteers might get overzealous if they don't have the right motivations.

How about making new mods rank up instead of paying them ? And if they do a shitty job, you just fire them and move them back to their former rank.

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September 06, 2018, 03:46:01 PM
 #28

Mods have to be paid, that might be the issue here. You could find volunteers yes, but volunteers might get overzealous if they don't have the right motivations.

How about making new mods rank up instead of paying them ? And if they do a shitty job, you just fire them and move them back to their former rank.

Staff members are volunteers but do get paid also. The issue isn't money as theymos has said numerous times that the forum has more than enough money in reserves, so much so that he's even contemplated getting rid of the forum ad slot which is pretty much the forum's only source of income (which I don't think he should do). There are probably several long-standing and fairly trusted members of the community that could step up and would make great mods and those amongst the highest reporters with several thousands of accurate reports would be on a worthy shortlist. You could also promote some of the existing staff members to dedicated sub board mods but doing both would be more effective.


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September 06, 2018, 04:07:12 PM
 #29

Mods have to be paid, that might be the issue here. You could find volunteers yes, but volunteers might get overzealous if they don't have the right motivations.

How about making new mods rank up instead of paying them ? And if they do a shitty job, you just fire them and move them back to their former rank.
The issue isn't money as theymos has said numerous times that the forum has more than enough money in reserve


Well it's one more thing he would have to deal with and I guess he doesn't have the time to do so.
How about having the current mods do the hiring and rewarding (whichever way it's done) of the new ones ? We would have mods and super mods.

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September 07, 2018, 09:08:52 AM
 #30

I see theymos was here but didn't answer the request.
Hope we get a feedback soon.

Off-topic :
@hilariousetc I sent you a PM with a small issue I saw.

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September 07, 2018, 02:58:47 PM
 #31

I see theymos was here but didn't answer the request.
Hope we get a feedback soon.
...
How you can see that theymos was here?
Is there any setting in the forum to check back later who has viewed the topic/post?
I thought it's not possible, but I don't know all the features of this forum....

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September 07, 2018, 03:53:12 PM
 #32

The economics board is terrible too.

Almost all topics here are created by spammers for spammers.
Like this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3165456.0

What's he best cryptocurrency to invest?

More than 30 pages of spam


There are some good discussions that get lost very quickly.
I don't know how can this situation be controlled. I tried to report here, did about 100-200 reports there, which got deleted... But it's hard to fight against spam


And Bounties? The board consists from posts alike "interesting project". Aren't we tired from this? The forum definitely needs more mods to control spammers and shitposters.

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September 07, 2018, 04:13:27 PM
 #33

I see theymos was here but didn't answer the request.
Hope we get a feedback soon.
...
How you can see that theymos was here?
Is there any setting in the forum to check back later who has viewed the topic/post?
I thought it's not possible, but I don't know all the features of this forum....
No there's no setting like that. It's was probably assumed that theymos was online and was answering other threads, so he must have seen this too.

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September 08, 2018, 10:35:25 AM
 #34

I see theymos was here but didn't answer the request.
Hope we get a feedback soon.
...
How you can see that theymos was here?
Is there any setting in the forum to check back later who has viewed the topic/post?
I thought it's not possible, but I don't know all the features of this forum....

You can't be 100% sure he seen it, but if he's been online he's probably been in Meta and seen a thread that directly addresses him in the title. Theymos' comments are becoming about as rare as unicorn sightings though  Cheesy.

And Bounties? The board consists from posts alike "interesting project". Aren't we tired from this? The forum definitely needs more mods to control spammers and shitposters.

It needs more than just more mods. Without fundamental changes here nothing much will change despite how much manpower your throw at it. You could have an entire office consisting of mods trying to clean up spam and it still probably wouldn't be enough because there's thousands of spammers spamming and hundreds more probably sign up per day. I agree we do need more mods, but we also need to start punishing those who are paying for the spam in the first place. Tackle the problem at the source.

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September 08, 2018, 11:20:25 AM
 #35

~
I sent you a PM regarding an issue with your signature.

Theymos is really like a unicorn, mysterious.
I don't know what he is doing for living, but I'm sure the forum is more like a hobby, and if he is a young man in his late twenties than for sure he has more important things to think of right now because the forum is a big time consumer and responsibility but you cannot give up from your whole career and development just because satoshi choose you to be the admin.

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September 08, 2018, 02:48:23 PM
 #36

I think that the increase in the number of moderators can help the community but I do not think it will change much, even if we add 100 moderators, the spammers can make themselves in a few minutes even 10,000 accounts and spam, so in the end we are in the same situation where a user must report a spam and a moderator must delete the message.

So to conclude with more realistic numbers even if you add 5 moderators we are in the exact same situation.


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suchmoon
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September 08, 2018, 03:29:45 PM
 #37

I think that the increase in the number of moderators can help the community but I do not think it will change much, even if we add 100 moderators, the spammers can make themselves in a few minutes even 10,000 accounts and spam, so in the end we are in the same situation where a user must report a spam and a moderator must delete the message.

So to conclude with more realistic numbers even if you add 5 moderators we are in the exact same situation.

It's not quite like that - 10k accounts would cost the spammers time and possibly money (what with evil IPs etc). But there are definitely some relatively simple changes that could replace the work of (or remove the need to hire) a few moderators. Newbie whitelisting mentioned somewhere in another thread should be quite effective. There are probably some moderation workflow improvements that could help - I think hilarious mentioned that all mod reports go to all global mods, which sounds like a massive internal spam fest on its own.

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September 08, 2018, 10:37:35 PM
Merited by suchmoon (4)
 #38


Press board should definitely be added to the list. It has assigned moderator, jgarzik who was inactive for a long time and came back just to participate in his own altcoin's thread.

If I understand the purpose of that board correctly - posting press hits from mainstream media about Bitcoin - then most of the content is pure spam: non-bitcoin or even non-crypto related links, links to crypto-related news sites (what's the point?) or some niche blog posts, hardly anyone is sticking to the advised format + there's a spam even in sticky posts.


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September 09, 2018, 05:58:10 AM
 #39

Add the following boards to your list:

- Bitcoin > "Project Development"

- And for Local >
a. Hrvatski (Croatian) - A bit of exception (due to how events folded)
~Snipped~
c. 한국어 (Korean) - Also a bit of exception since "theymos posted this"
d. Skandinavisk

If you agree I'll make a list with volunteers for each section
where we can vote and you will pick the ones you like
.
If I get a positive answer here I'll take the responsibility to open a thread with list for volunteers for each section and theymos can decide later which one to pick.
This:
I think volunteerism is not enough to be appointed as a moderator. Some people only shows an act of volunteerism in order to gain reputation and later behaves like a scumbag.

There should have a screening tool maybe when appointing a moderator just like becoming of a merit source.
I'm pretty sure that's the norm...

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September 09, 2018, 07:38:36 AM
 #40

If theymos can't or don't want to recruit new moderator, then theymos should do something else such as disabling signature on boards with lots of spammer to punish spammer.

This would be the ideal solution, if you want genuine and constructive discussion to start.
Since from what theymos was saying, bounty cannot be cut out completely, as they necessary for the sustainment of the forum, at least they could be restricted to certain boards.


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