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Author Topic: The new rule (1 Merit for Jr. Member) is already reducing spam  (Read 3360 times)
LoyceV
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September 18, 2018, 06:21:07 PM
Last edit: January 01, 2019, 10:07:05 AM by LoyceV
Merited by Foxpup (6), suchmoon (4), bones261 (4), dbshck (2), TMAN (2), o_e_l_e_o (2), paxmao (2), Lauda (1), mocacinno (1), pawel7777 (1), krishnapramod (1), finaleshot2016 (1), TheBeardedBaby (1), DdmrDdmr (1), LimLims (1), mazdafunsun (1), Cosette (1)
 #1

Totally revised version (original quoted at the end of this post)!
This makes adding new data less work Smiley

Theymos announced the "Enhanced newbie restrictions & requirements" in post 45810047. This was on Sep 17 06:27 (Dutch time).

Post 44746501 was made 3 weeks (plus 60 minutes) earlier. In 3 weeks (+60 minutes) before the announcement, 1063546 posts were made. On average, in 3 weeks before the announcement, the forum saw 353813 new posts per week. This is the number I'll use to compare results with.

Post 46096455 was made 1 week later.
Post 46376958 was made 2 weeks later.
Post 46636652 was made 3 weeks later.
Post 46900337 was made 4 weeks later.
Post 47140676 was made 5 weeks later.
Post 47380721 was made 6 weeks later.
Post 47600410 was made 7 weeks later.
Post 47818184 was made 8 weeks later.
Post 48033319 was made 9 weeks later.
Post 48232805 was made 10 weeks later.
Post 48410472 was made 11 weeks later.
Post 48569803 was made 12 weeks later.
Post 48714784 was made 13 weeks later.
Post 48854475 was made 14 weeks later.
Post 48978781 was made 15 weeks later.
That means:
  • In the first week after the announcement, 286408 posts were made (-19.05%).
  • In the second week after the announcement, 280503 posts were made (-20.72%).
  • In the third week after the announcement, 259694 posts were made (-26.60%).
  • In the fourth week after the announcement, 263685 posts were made (-25.47%).
  • In the fifth week after the announcement, 240339 posts were made (-32.07%).
  • In the sixth week after the announcement, 240045 posts were made (-32.15%).
  • In the seventh week after the announcement, 219689 posts were made (-37.91%).
  • In the eighth week after the announcement, 217774 posts were made (-38.45%).
  • In the nineth week after the announcement, 215135 posts were made (-39.20%).
  • In the tenth week after the announcement, 199486 posts were made (-43.62%).
  • In the eleventh week after the announcement, 177677 posts were made (-49.78%).
  • In the twelfth week after the announcement, 159331 posts were made (-54.97%).
  • In the thirteenth week after the announcement, 144981 posts were made (-59.02%).
  • In the fourteenth week after the announcement, 139691 posts were made (-60,52%).
  • In the fifteenth week after the announcement, 124306 posts were made (-64,87%).



My old OP:

I was curious:
Theymos announced the "Enhanced newbie restrictions & requirements" in post 45810047. This was on Sep 17 06:27 (Dutch time).
Post 45752895 was made 24 hours earlier, and post 45853867 was made 24 hours later.
Post 45705944 was made 48 hours earlier, post 45894771 was made 48 hours later.
Post 45469471 was made 1 week (plus 7 minutes) earlier, post 46096594 was made 1 week (plus 7 minutes) later.
Post 45113538 was made 2 weeks (plus 19 minutes) earlier, post 46377227 was made 2 weeks (plus 19 minutes) later.
Post 44746501 was made 3 weeks (plus 60 minutes) earlier, post 46637557 was made 3 weeks (plus 60 minutes) later.
That means:
  • In 24 hours before the announcement, 57152 posts were made.
  • In 24 hours after the announcement, 43820 posts were made.
  • In 48 hours before the announcement, 104103 posts were made.
  • In 48 hours after the announcement, 84724 posts were made.
  • In 1 week (+7 minutes) before the announcement, 340576 posts were made.
  • In 1 week (+7 minutes) after the announcement, 286547 posts were made.
  • In 2 weeks (+19 minutes) before the announcement, 696509 posts were made.
  • In 2 weeks (+19 minutes) after the announcement, 567180 posts were made.
  • In 3 weeks (+60 minutes) before the announcement, 1063546 posts were made.
  • In 3 weeks (+60 minutes) after the announcement, 827510 posts were made.
In 24 hours, that's 23.3% less posts.
In 48 hours, that's 18.6% less posts.
In 1 week, that's 15.9% less posts.
In 2 weeks, that's 18.6% less posts.
In 3 weeks, that's 22.2% less posts.



When I click Show unread posts since last visit., I can now see some actual real threads again! There is still ANN and BOUNTY pollution, but in between are real topics (I have no boards on ignore on this account).


Update: theymos posted data on the number of posts per day in the past 30 days.


Update: My list of new Merit receivers (including both abusers as well as innocent users): List of demoted Jr. Members who were ranked up again.

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September 18, 2018, 06:27:54 PM
 #2

So looks like the change from Theymos on the ranking system has done good things about spam posts !

And also nice to read what easy changes can do to the whole Forum !




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September 18, 2018, 07:00:19 PM
 #3

Are you able to calculate how many jr.members were born from yesterday to today and from who were born?
For example, if a person gave the birth to 10 or 20 or 30 Jr.Members can starts to be suspicious!

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September 18, 2018, 07:03:22 PM
 #4

Are you able to calculate how many jr.members were born from yesterday to today and from who were born?
For example, if a person gave the birth to 10 or 20 or 30 Jr.Members can starts to be suspicious!

Are you talking location wise, or IP?
There's really no way to determine "from who were born" unless the accounts are linked together (using a script of some sort)

Admins may have more information, but this would be difficult to achieve w/ public information.

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September 18, 2018, 07:03:51 PM
 #5

Are you able to calculate how many jr.members were born from yesterday to today and from who were born?
I can, but mocacinno is planning something similar already.

Quote
For example, if a person gave the birth to 10 or 20 or 30 Jr.Members can starts to be suspicious!
o_e_l_e_o is chasing those abusers.

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September 18, 2018, 07:16:10 PM
 #6

Newbie accounts are useless right now and most of real users will try to enhance the quality of their posts to get out of the imposed restrictions.
Another option is to buy copper membership or try to buy some smerit in the dark which isn't profitable at all for auto-bots managers.
So yeah, +1 merit is effective and it will remains for the next few months at least.

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September 18, 2018, 07:22:34 PM
 #7

For example, if a person gave the birth to 10 or 20 or 30 Jr.Members can starts to be suspicious!
o_e_l_e_o is chasing those abusers.
Still hard to connect which account owns what account/s especially if the account farmer is cautious on sending out merits to their own farmed accounts. Right now just by looking at the recent merit page you will see a lot of members handing out 1 merit consecutively to different users (who just became Jr. Members) but if you look at the post it is either in a different language (which is hard to judge the quality of the post) or somewhat a worthy post for one merit. But the thing that surprises me is these accounts who have received 1 merit are mostly newbie members who just became Jr. Members with that one merit. Which tells me that they are just receiving merits just to rank up to a rank where they can wear a signature again.

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September 18, 2018, 07:57:22 PM
 #8

You have to believe the real problem scammers will be able to obtain a single merit.  I feel like there may be a shelf life on this fix.  As they flip accounts 1 by 1 from Newbie to Jr. Member the shit posts will continue. 

I do believe the low intelligence spammer was just completely wrecked due to this new rule.  You can see it in the forum posts.  I think the rule was good.  Very abrupt for the unaware (I suck and never even knew about the META section until the new rule set off a massive posting glut and everyone was talking about it.)

I have a serious desire to see a 3 merit for Jr. Member limit set  (even though it will set me back).  A Jr. Member account will be much more valuable than previously so it seems like a good trade for the real posters and a disaster for the spammers. 

Glad to have found the META section as this is a fascinating situation being discussed. 

I'm a recovering semi shit poster that didn't even realize what was the score was concerning how or what to post.  I was just firing away opinions and answers.  Never been on a forum with money making tied in so I never imagined all the rules for posting.  I tried to be relevant but I'm now upping my contributions and elaborating on my ideas.


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September 18, 2018, 08:13:22 PM
Last edit: September 19, 2018, 03:07:02 AM by vphasitha01
 #9

Are you able to calculate how many jr.members were born from yesterday to today and from who were born?
I can, but mocacinno is planning something similar already.
I think @mocacinno will be able to scraped all the newbies who ranked up to Jr. Member from yesterday to today, but he won't(at least take lot of scraping) catch up the Jr. members who demoted yesterday but ranked up again within the same day.

Another thing we can't take decisions just by trusting our gut feelings as mentioned by @mocacinno. I don't know why people so bothered about to find out those demoted users and try to make a relationship between that one merit they got assuming only from a merit abuser. Why people couldn't create any script to catch the big fishes who awarded Merits with big numbers in perticulary in ANN threads rather finding needle in a haystack. I know abuse is an abuse wether it's one or few but we are playing waiting game when it comes to the big numbers.

Quote
Quote
For example, if a person gave the birth to 10 or 20 or 30 Jr.Members can starts to be suspicious!
o_e_l_e_o is chasing those abusers.
I'm totally agreed with that statement and those persons who gave sudden births to be banned if they found guilty.
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September 19, 2018, 07:53:35 AM
 #10

I think @mocacinno will be able to scraped all the newbies who ranked up to Jr. Member from yesterday to today, but he won't(at least take lot of scraping) catch up the Jr. members who demoted yesterday but ranked up again within the same day.
Scraping all accounts that received Merit isn't much work, especially if you only scrape the once that recently received their first Merit.

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September 19, 2018, 08:02:03 AM
 #11

From your calculations, it is clear that after the announcement of new ranking system posts in the forum has slightly reduced. It will help reducing spam posts too in the upcoming days. Maximum Jr.Member will try to collect 1 Merit from now but we expect their merit collection will be improving post quality.

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September 19, 2018, 08:11:02 AM
Merited by o_e_l_e_o (1), paxmao (1)
 #12

I still believe that the best option would have been as follows. -

Brand new - no posting requirement and no merit. No signature
Newbie - one post and <10 merit - no signature
Junior - <30 posts and <10 merit - simple text sig with no URL or site reference
Member - >29 posts and >9 merit - basic signature.

This would encourage the better new members to become juniors by participating in the forum activities.

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September 19, 2018, 08:14:36 AM
 #13

Newbie accounts are useless right now and most of real users will try to enhance the quality of their posts to get out of the imposed restrictions.
Another option is to buy copper membership or try to buy some smerit in the dark which isn't profitable at all for auto-bots managers.
So yeah, +1 merit is effective and it will remains for the next few months at least.

I agree with you sir, This is not permanent solution because if their intention to be a Junior Member to participate in bounty then today or tomorrow they will achieve it. If anyone give 1 merit on a simple post we will not take it seriously. Now we observe it very seriously because of current situation, think 20 or 30 days ahead we people will forget it and they will get a merit easily with a good post or they will buy. After get 1 merit they (spammer) will never try to post to get another merit because they already achieve their goal. Their goal is to ware a signature to earn some money to participate in bounty.
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September 19, 2018, 09:28:35 AM
 #14

When I click Show unread posts since last visit., I can now see some actual real threads again! There is still ANN and BOUNTY pollution, but in between are real topics (I have no boards ignoring on this account).
Short Answer: Yes, for a limited period.
It's only a temporary period, there have been a lot of posts because of wearing signatures. I expect members to be more engaged with campaign managers than posting in the forum.
Also, Jrmembers's accounts was sold, so many create more accounts to sell it "because it was rank-up based on activity."
Over time the number of posts will be reduced until those members find a way back to that rank and then post again.





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September 19, 2018, 10:03:00 AM
 #15

With the current that the admins are doing from yesterday to this has reduced a lot of new people can not write articles. minimize spam
The groups are discussing a lot about the new policy

what the fuck is this nonsense?

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September 19, 2018, 10:16:07 AM
Last edit: September 19, 2018, 03:06:46 PM by jademaxsuy
 #16

Are you able to calculate how many jr.members were born from yesterday to today and from who were born?
For example, if a person gave the birth to 10 or 20 or 30 Jr.Members can starts to be suspicious!
This is a really hard work and a full time job right here. I cannot do like this and definitely I rather go home early and be with my kids and my wife.

Another option is to buy copper membership or try to buy some smerit in the dark which isn't profitable at all for auto-bots managers.
So yeah, +1 merit is effective and it will remains for the next few months at least.
This is what theymos has said that the brighter side on implementing the +1 merit requirement for every newbie rank to rank up to jr. member is equally fair and reasonable. Yet, it should remain +1 merit requirement since I had only 2 on my profile and for somehow I get scared so I should be serious this time taking my posts to next level.

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September 19, 2018, 10:22:19 AM
 #17

Are you able to calculate how many jr.members were born from yesterday to today and from who were born?
For example, if a person gave the birth to 10 or 20 or 30 Jr.Members can starts to be suspicious!
This is a really hard work and a full time job right here. I cannot do like this and definitely I rather go home early and be with my kids and my wife.

~

LOL. What are you talking about. Nobody does it by hand.
It is a matter of creating a script and using "snapshots" calculations from differences and some otputs, which is feasible for those with skills in this field. Nobody reads the profiles one by one manually. Once the script it's done is just press one botton.

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September 19, 2018, 10:51:39 AM
 #18

It's reduced the amount of posts, doubt that the average quality has changed that much. I see just as much junk posted from high level accounts as from Jrs.
Giving old accounts a lot of merit when the system was released was a mistake, they've since mostly been giving merit out to eachother.

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September 19, 2018, 11:03:44 AM
Merited by Vod (5), bones261 (2), paxmao (2)
 #19

--snip--
I think @mocacinno will be able to scraped all the newbies who ranked up to Jr. Member from yesterday to today, but he won't(at least take lot of scraping) catch up the Jr. members who demoted yesterday but ranked up again within the same day.

Another thing we can't take decisions just by trusting our gut feelings as mentioned by @mocacinno. I don't know why people so bothered about to find out those demoted users and try to make a relationship between that one merit they got assuming only from a merit abuser. Why people couldn't create any script to catch the big fishes who awarded Merits with big numbers in perticulary in ANN threads rather finding needle in a haystack. I know abuse is an abuse wether it's one or few but we are playing waiting game when it comes to the big numbers.
--snip--

I wasn't aware off this thread yesterday, but since i accidentally stumbled upon this thread today, i wanted to take the time to reply.

My script CAN and WILL find all users that:
  • were junior members before theymos's rule change
  • AND were demoted because of theymos's rule change
  • AND received exactly 1 merit AFTER they were demoted in order to be promoted again

The only timestamp that's important is the exact unix timestamp on which Theymos made the code change... All other factors are unimportant. It doesn't matter if the newbie re-promotes the same day, or 3 days later... My script will filter them out.
The script works on LoyceV's full merit history to filter out potential abusers, after this step, it'll make 1 request per potential abuser. Even if 2000 people are filtered out, the script should still finish in about an hour  (2 seconds sleep every iteration in order not to overload bitcointalk's server).

Also, i wanted to mention that i never proposed to automise a gut feeling by automising neg repping or ignoring. My script will filter out all POTENTIAL abusers and that's it (nothing more, nothing less). Since i'm pretty sure that a lot of those POTENTIAL abusers are in fact false-positives (since i'm pretty sure a lot of demoted users will have re-promoted on legitimate grounds).
My proposition was to filter out potential abusers using my script, then manually verify the list and only punish those that received merits for posts that are complete garbage... If there is any doubt wether or not somebody received a merit legitimately, the user should be left alone (i'd even go as far as proposing we go trough his/her post history and see if there were other merit-worthy posts aswell).

Last but not least: catching the "big fishes" (the people that sent 1 merit to loads of demoted users) is also pretty easy to do... As a matter of fact, my script already keeps a list of the senders to potential abusers. It's just a matter of counting how many times each sender's uid pops up in the senders list... I haven't implemented this yet, but this implementation would just be 3 or 4 extra lines of code... No biggie...

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September 19, 2018, 11:13:38 AM
 #20

My proposition was to filter out potential abusers using my script, then manually verify the list and only punish those that received merits for posts that are complete garbage...
This leaves the possibility the shitposter received Merit without buying it. The sender on the other hand is for sure guilty in this scenario.

Your project deserves it's own thread!

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