[RETURN] Announcing CoinReturn Financial IPO!

[Dingir]

First of all great work you are doing there! Great dividends being paid, I hope this continues

Regarding the Sale of Share:

Im trying to invest since several days approx. 5 BTC into your Business which is rather complicated. Gladdly somebody sold me approx. 150 Shares from his private stock, but since then it has been rather hard to attain further Shares at a reasonable Price.
Currently I have over 2.5 BTC in your Orderbook (at a resonable Price lvl), which makes me very unconfortable, because of one reason:  Vircurex!!
If I were you I would never allow so much potential Investment in your Company on the Orderbook of CryptoStocks i.e. Vircurex, i.e. Kumala...

So my sugesstion is:

IPO - 534 Shares - 0.01BTC- for one week and then freemarket again.
The remaining Shares will be split into Groups of 500, and sold at different lvls:
500 - Shares - 0.015 BTC
500 - Shares - 0.02 BTC
500-  Shares - 0.025 BTC
500 - Shares - 0.030 BTC

and so on...

Like this the People who paid now so high Prices for your Stock have the short chance to get some lower ones at 0.01 BTC. On the Otherhand, People who are willing to invest higher amount of BTC also have the chance to actually build up their Portfolio, and not leave so many BTC on a vircurex related site...

anyhow! if anybody is interested in selling me his stocks i am currently around the orders 0.0096 Please fill it up!! 
Wish you all a nice Weekend! tanati Istar

[johny08]

First of all great work you are doing there! Great dividends being paid, I hope this continues

Regarding the Sale of Share:

Im trying to invest since several days approx. 5 BTC into your Business which is rather complicated. Gladdly somebody sold me approx. 150 Shares from his private stock, but since then it has been rather hard to attain further Shares at a reasonable Price.
Currently I have over 2.5 BTC in your Orderbook (at a resonable Price lvl), which makes me very unconfortable, because of one reason:  Vircurex!!
If I were you I would never allow so much potential Investment in your Company on the Orderbook of CryptoStocks i.e. Vircurex, i.e. Kumala...

So my sugesstion is:

IPO - 534 Shares - 0.01BTC- for one week and then freemarket again.
The remaining Shares will be split into Groups of 500, and sold at different lvls:
500 - Shares - 0.015 BTC
500 - Shares - 0.02 BTC
500-  Shares - 0.025 BTC
500 - Shares - 0.030 BTC

and so on...

Like this the People who paid now so high Prices for your Stock have the short chance to get some lower ones at 0.01 BTC. On the Otherhand, People who are willing to invest higher amount of BTC also have the chance to actually build up their Portfolio, and not leave so many BTC on a vircurex related site...

anyhow! if anybody is interested in selling me his stocks i am currently around the orders 0.0096 Please fill it up!! 
Wish you all a nice Weekend! tanati Istar

YEAH, THAT WOULD BE GREAT./irony TO THE MOON!

My pricemedian is 0.0078 and I thought thats pretty high already. Less as half of the shares were sold for 0.006.

[Dingir]

YEAH, THAT WOULD BE GREAT./irony TO THE MOON!

My pricemedian is 0.0078 and I thought thats pretty high already. Less as half of the shares were sold for 0.006.

well if you take one of the "better" dividends, e.g. 0.00015610 per Share, with an Investment of 0.0078 per share, you make an Return of +/- 2% every two days! that basically means 1 % every day, which means 365% in a fuckin year! :-D
so you still think 0.0078 per share is high? at the current dividends not even 0.03 is high... (off course always depending on the dividends...) dunno where you can find that in the "real" world. I personally own Bank obligations which give me 3% interest in a whole fuckin a year!! ;-)

The People who got their Shares only at 0.006 where the risktakers, because the Listing was totally new at that time, not knowing if it was a complete scam... so Bonne Chance to them!!

Anyhow, my main Point, was more to emphasize the risk of keeping funds on cryptostocks and thus CoinReturn has to find a way to enable the "Long-run-fishes" in the Ocean to get 100+ Shares at once, whilst the others in for a quick buck  can push them Prices up or down with their 1 Share bids...
Thats why have a free market but with a quantity of Shares available at a Point above the current market value...

would be nice to hear CoinReturns thoughts on it... not just somebody complaining about my first post I ever made in such a Forum not just BTC related, ever... :-D

[johny08]

YEAH, THAT WOULD BE GREAT./irony TO THE MOON!

My pricemedian is 0.0078 and I thought thats pretty high already. Less as half of the shares were sold for 0.006.

well if you take one of the "better" dividends, e.g. 0.00015610 per Share, with an Investment of 0.0078 per share, you make an Return of +/- 2% every two days! that basically means 1 % every day, which means 365% in a fuckin year! :-D
so you still think 0.0078 per share is high? at the current dividends not even 0.03 is high... (off course always depending on the dividends...) dunno where you can find that in the "real" world. I personally own Bank obligations which give me 3% interest in a whole fuckin a year!! ;-)

The People who got their Shares only at 0.006 where the risktakers, because the Listing was totally new at that time, not knowing if it was a complete scam... so Bonne Chance to them!!

Anyhow, my main Point, was more to emphasize the risk of keeping funds on cryptostocks and thus CoinReturn has to find a way to enable the "Long-run-fishes" in the Ocean to get 100+ Shares at once, whilst the others in for a quick buck  can push them Prices up or down with their 1 Share bids...
Thats why have a free market but with a quantity of Shares available at a Point above the current market value...

would be nice to hear CoinReturns thoughts on it... not just somebody complaining about my first post I ever made in such a Forum not just BTC related, ever... :-D

sorry, I were not complaining. I am just thinking that 0.02 or 0.03 is a very high price, because trading is a risky business. Completely not comparable with obligations. Therefor a good trader is makinig 30 % a month and Tom & Jeff are good in my eyes, so they can make it. Supporting a project from the beginning is kind of less risk, because in trading you are coming to a point  making a huge loss, its like the probability of a win in lottery, but kind of opposite.

I am also invested in full return swaps with 20 % a year. When you have obligations, thats maybe what you search for too.

cryptostocks is a cashcow, i dont think vircurex is going to slaughter it. Its really a problem to buy alot of shares at ones. I was also complaining about that and it seems there is no possibility to buy 10% of the coinreturn fund at once. thats good and bad at the same time.

[pekv2]

I gave it a shot, I got hit by asic.coop scammer. But this time it's a lot cheaper for shares, I bought in @ two shares. I seen how dividends are paid, looks well. The graph looks somewhat stable and well it looks like you made it this far so I said why not. This is, btc that was collecting dust. If it does turn out bad, it's not much I'll lose out. I'd get more but that's a dif. story going on.

[SamboNZ]

Can you please post under your real bitcointalk name and not under an alt with 1 post and 0 activity so we know who's behind the listing.

I (Tom) personally don't have an account here. I think one or both of the other founders have accounts established here and I sent them a txt passing along the message and have them post with theirs.

Thanks for the input.

Tom, I don't think I've seen posts from either of the other 2 founder's real accounts.  Any chance of getting this to happen soon?

[coinreturn]

Thanks for all the input on the share selling issue so far, looks like we don't have much agreement but we're working it out. Maybe we'll try to boil it down to like three options and see what you guys think and maybe put it to a shareholder vote? One thing we'd like to do is maybe set a definite limit on total shares for at least a year---say have a maximum of 20,000 shares through 2014; maybe add some kind of lifetime limit too. This way investors know we aren't going to suddenly release 500,000 shares and kill the value, you guys think this is a good idea?

As for today's dividend payment it's going to be a stinker (we're posting this pretty much simultaniously with the dividend payment). If you look at charts of the value of BTC/LTC in the past 2 days there has been pretty much zero volatility; sell high, buy low doesn't work to well when the high/low is only 3% apart. Sorry if we let you guys down, the market usually seems to get moving on mondays though so we're optimistic for the next dividend.

[coinreturn]

Can you please post under your real bitcointalk name and not under an alt with 1 post and 0 activity so we know who's behind the listing.

I (Tom) personally don't have an account here. I think one or both of the other founders have accounts established here and I sent them a txt passing along the message and have them post with theirs.

Thanks for the input.

Tom, I don't think I've seen posts from either of the other 2 founder's real accounts.  Any chance of getting this to happen soon?

I (Jeff) don't have access to the email I used to signup anymore. I think I last logged in around 2012 back when I last did any mining and I think I might have only had like 2 (maybe even 0) posts on it anyway. Sorry it took me so long to respond. Tom doesn't have one and Tony is (if you guys haven't figured it out by now) too antisocial on the internet to have a forum account anywhere (at least that's what me and Tom are guessing ;P)

-Jeff

[johny08]

Thanks for all the input on the share selling issue so far, looks like we don't have much agreement but we're working it out. Maybe we'll try to boil it down to like three options and see what you guys think and maybe put it to a shareholder vote? One thing we'd like to do is maybe set a definite limit on total shares for at least a year---say have a maximum of 20,000 shares through 2014; maybe add some kind of lifetime limit too. This way investors know we aren't going to suddenly release 500,000 shares and kill the value, you guys think this is a good idea?

As for today's dividend payment it's going to be a stinker (we're posting this pretty much simultaniously with the dividend payment). If you look at charts of the value of BTC/LTC in the past 2 days there has been pretty much zero volatility; sell high, buy low doesn't work to well when the high/low is only 3% apart. Sorry if we let you guys down, the market usually seems to get moving on mondays though so we're optimistic for the next dividend.

Thats cool. Its better as rising the shareprice as a ponzi.

20.000 in 2014. The limit is like connected to a limited price of a share, so you can trade with reasonable numbers as XBT and altcoins are a limited market (sorry for the word repetition limit). So i guess its usefull to make a XBT IPO max definition instead of shares max count.

Today they are 700 Shares in the bid and the price rised over 30 % in two days. Thats alot. Do you consider releasing more shares today so I can buy next week stil my 2 shares for a reasonable price and dividend, please. Thanks

[pekv2]

Forget to update the OP with dividends payed or is there a delay?

Date                 Total dividend  Number of shares    Dividend per share    
27 Apr  08:58     0.43860880     6,566                      0.00006680   BTC


Thanks.

[HowlingMad]

Jeff,
I think you might be over-thinking price manipulation.  I and an investment club may be responsible for the price fluctuations you are seeing.  My recent purchase of 90 shares may have been a little much and subsequently have caused some of this fluctuation. 

My club has determined that your stock is one of the better investments at Crypto, and we probably rushed into it too fast.  I will mention it to the group and ask that people buy in blocks of 20-30 shares at a time. 

As you will notice the price is currently dropping towards the .01 range and will probably drop further because of the poor dividend.  Some investors have that 'sky is falling' attitude at the least little problem.  It has been this way for the last 30 years in the 'real world' stock market. 

We are in this for the long haul and not 'pump and dump' pukes.  Naturally, you must understand that success normally brings increased pricing!

Keep up the excellent work! 

 

[pekv2]

$10.39 for my two shares vs $18 earlier. lol. go fig. glad it's play money.

[johny08]

Great work and compliment to the Fund Management.

1.
My question is, if you could make premium verification on Cryptostocks. However, every project started after 10. April require this type of verification for listing. That would give the project a boost in liability and reputation.

Maybe, you could consider that for a vote, because not everybody is really giving to the verification attention.

2.
My second proposal (sent a PM) is giving out Options for median share price of the last 10 - 30 days, so bulk buyer (300 shares up) can get shares for a reasonable price.

Best regards and thanks for estblishing a trading fund in XBT

[johny08]

If you are the owner of any of the first 295 shares bought and still hold them, you've now received more in dividends than you paid for those shares.  I'm surprised Tom or Jeff didn't mention this today.  That's a milestone worth noting!

Keep up the good work guys.

Yeah, you are right. the price for the first (lets say) 4000 shares was about the original market share price 0.006. I hoped in because the ROI was about 30% a month. With collecting money with 0.01 a share this ROI should jump up to 40%.

The most important thing is the Fund itself, how the IPO is organised is quite not the most important thing.

I can just warn people from investing more as they lose. before pushing it, i need to be sure and for that an inside view into the work of the fund create trust (Just my 50 cents).

EDIT:
Good we are today almost back to normality at 0.008. Next big support is on 0.006 and we could stop there.

[ajw7989]

I hope coinreturn will not release anymore shares for a while. I think the price drop is scary for some investors and if coinreturn keeps releasing shares tomorrow it is going to plummet more. You guys should cool off for 3-4 days and stop releasing anymore shares. Let the price stabilize first

[noobthegreat]

I hope coinreturn will not release anymore shares for a while. I think the price drop is scary for some investors and if coinreturn keeps releasing shares tomorrow it is going to plummet more. You guys should cool off for 3-4 days and stop releasing anymore shares. Let the price stabilize first

I'm not so sure about that. I'd like to think the average investor savvy enough to jump on board with CoinReturn would be fairly diligent, enough to keep up with the information the founders have also been diligent about giving out here and on CS.

We're at a good price right now, maybe we can go higher but the sudden jump scared me more than the drop, especially as someone who wants to reinvest their gains. I definitely want to stay with the project and see where it goes

[coinreturn]

Sorry on the lack of updates the past couple days, we managed to break our ATP while attempting to do some updates and normally we'd just revert to a backup but we managed to overwrite our backup code with this broken version (ouch!). So we've had to do alot of (mostly) manual trading, which is time consuming and basically requires one of us to be trading/market watching all the time. We've basically rebuilt the ATP, but we're running in a simulation mode which doesn't actually trade but tells us the outcomes as if we did. We need to have this running for a while to get a good sized log to review for any missed opportunities or bad trades (i.e. we don't want it to sell a dozen btc for $440 and buy in 30 min later at $445, stuff like that). So we've had our hands full with that.

As for the share price maybe the value rose a bit too high too fast and combined with overall market conditions: a bit of a dip in price of btc and volume on CS down to 140btc overall. Fortunately for us our trading strategies do best when bitcoin's value falls so our dividends are likely to rise in a bad market and hopefully negate these factors... However we're well aware btc's price has only a limited effect on our price. We're still around .01btc and it's still a bit early to really react yet but our initial thinking is that this is indeed just a correction from us being overbought last week. If so then the price should stabilize. If not then we'll update here as to any actions we'll take.



Last, we'll be making an announcement which will be cross-posted on CS as well. The announcement will cover: That we're going to be announcing a set share maximum similar to what was discussed in earlier posts. When, how many, and if we'll be creating any new shares and how we're going to sell shares (i.e. all at once, x per day, IPO on/off, etc). We don't want to jump the gun but we can say that this will be implemented/active/starting on or before 5/14, with the "official" announcement well before that. This will finally be a set plan for share distribution that we're going to avoid deviating from like deviation and back-pedaling is the plague(no more, 'okay now we're going to change plans and start selling x shares at x time' stuff!)
We might announce the maximum share limit thing separate, before that just so things don't get too confusing, but either way: in the next 10 days or less everyone will know how shares will be sold. Sorry it's taken us this long to get sorted out and that we didn't have this figured out from the very start. We think we've arrived at a solution that should be acceptable to all parties involved.

Thanks for your patience and feedback, we've been reading your posts and messages just haven't had a chance to get back to everyone.

-Your CoinReturn team

[Chef Ramsay]

At some point it would seem like we'd want to allow the free market to set the share price, as in what someone is willing to pay to receive such a service/investment. W/ consistent returns like this I can see people willing to pay a hefty (fill in the blank) price per share especially as more money comes in through newer shares thus bolstering returns even further. Perhaps I'm missing something tho to which I'd be thrilled to hear more.

[johny08]

I hope coinreturn will not release anymore shares for a while. I think the price drop is scary for some investors and if coinreturn keeps releasing shares tomorrow it is going to plummet more. You guys should cool off for 3-4 days and stop releasing anymore shares. Let the price stabilize first

I'm not so sure about that. I'd like to think the average investor savvy enough to jump on board with CoinReturn would be fairly diligent, enough to keep up with the information the founders have also been diligent about giving out here and on CS.

We're at a good price right now, maybe we can go higher but the sudden jump scared me more than the drop, especially as someone who wants to reinvest their gains. I definitely want to stay with the project and see where it goes

I wrote several times about the crazy rise up to 100% - 300%, so they should supply the IPO more flexibel.

I guess there are more investors, which are going to bomb the price down, the same way it was pushed up. I can just repeat myself 4000 shares were sold for 0.006, so its logical, when someone want to reinvest, he will first bomb down the price. Lets see if they are investors out there with bitcoins in spare and want the price pump up to dump their expensive shares at higher regions.

I am still sceptical to ipo-market-share-price experiments. Some people lose, some win. Ok, there is an emotional show and the losers are paying for that and the winners are gaining. Thats trading pure, but investors intend not to trade they want to invest, because they cant trade, they have a different point of view . So lets see.

The most important thing is that tom and jeff feeling good doing their thing. I support everything they do, its their project, even when sometimes I sound unpolite.

EDIT:
Someone running the bot is making good arbitrage money .

[pekv2]

wow. 0.008000 for a share. i paid for mine @

Code:

2 x
Buy Order
RETURN - CoinReturn Financial
1@0.014998 BTC

My stocks are worth shit on a boot. "play gone money" LOL