If merit is like A lottery jackpot then it could be so hard to acquire!

[jademaxsuy]

Hello guys!

I still observe that merit is a hot issue in this section after seeing many posts started by the lower ranks that was being discussed over and over again. I know it is annoying but I could not help but to encourage them to be good and do what is right here in the forum.

So, here is my little way on convincing them to stop posting regarding on merit looking thread.

Let us consider if merit is like a lottery jackpot then basing on the data gathered from this post 2 MILLION users and their STATS probably you will know how hard on getting 1 merit over the number of users in the forum which 2 million users scraped by mazdafunsun.

See how huge is the number of the new users (Newbie - Jr. members)

Since PIE charts are the most common and one of the most intuitive charts to read, here are the distribution of bitcointalk ID's from 1 to 2'000'000 .

I quickly made a table to show the data of user ranks and their chance to get merits if we will consider merit as jackpot on winning lottery. I include the newbie and jr. members number of users in addition to 78,755 number of users from member to legendary rank presented by mazdafunsun here..

Code:

Rank            N = users     (% of users per rank)  (% chance on getting 1 merit / N # of users)
Legendary 	2140  	         0.3                                333.33
Hero Member	4140             0.7                                142.86
Senior Member	8999             1.67                               59.88
Full Member	18170 	         3.37                               29.67
Member     	27621            5.12                               19.53
Jr. Member      60389            11.20                              8.92
Newbie		417,536          77.46                              1.29
	
Total           538,997          100

Legendary rank has 333.33 % chance on getting 1 merit for it has only few number of users reaches this rank. Newbie and jr. member has the lowest chance of getting merit with only 1.29% and 8.92 chance on getting 1 merit respectively.

It clearly shows that if merit is like a Lottery Jackpot then newbie and jr. member ranks would hardly get merit. This because newbie and jr. member rank has the largest number of users in the forum. It has only a slight chance on getting merit. I will include also that the newbie/jr. member rank has the greatest number of posts activity stated in this post.


Luckily, getting merit is not like a lottery jackpot because merit could be given anytime to those users that has shown unique and constructive posting skills. I could be attest to the demoted to newbie rank users and now was able to rank up to member. It was grateful that merit source had done rightfully to the lower ranks and this could be seen here. Those people are extending help to motivate each users to post constructively and to behave in the forum.

Challenge is still to contribute and to be part meaningfully in this forum. I do hope that other lower ranks would realize how great it is to be part on cryptocurrency discussions. One should stop looking for merits and instead helping one another should be our priority.

So instead of complaining or starting a post to gain merit, it should be joining discussions actively and contribute meaningfully. We (lower ranks) should limit in starting a low quality post in this section instead we can participate actively in the discussions and learn.

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[AverageGlabella]

The fact of the whole thing is that people would rather moan about the system than actually try out the system and find out its actually not that bad. Its doing exactly what it was implemented for and thats finding the low quality members and stopping them from earning whilst spamming. Its already stopped account farming and Bitcointalk is becoming a better place.

I'm happy and I think the merit system is the best thing to happen to this forum period. Its not perfect by a long stretch but its done more good than harm.

[lrvjvt]

I disagree with your statistics. In fact, there may be more than 70% of bots in 2 million users, and 20% are farming accounts. Real users may be less than 10%.
For bots and agricultural accounts, I don’t think they are reasonable to get merit.
For users with broken English, posting a few high-quality posts in a local section is still very easy to get a merits，at least I think so. If you can't post at least 1 high-quality post in the local section, then you don't deserve to get a merit.

[JetAid]

The merit system is not a lottery, and it is only considered to be so by those who seem incapable of writing meritable posts.

[Gloverwrt]

I can hardly see why you would draw up a statistic just to disprove it.
As you have argued and proven, merit is not a lottery and everyone has an equal chance if getting it.

Luckily, getting merit is not like a lottery jackpot because it could be given anytime to those users that has shown unique and constructive posting skills

Well maybe not too equal, other members are naturally skeptical about new members and they would not automatically rain merits on you, and you have to gain acceptance gradually, like in every community.

I have noticed that the higher you go the more freely and generously other members merit you. As your intention on the forum would have become well defined.

New users should also approach the forum with similar skepticism, this is an online platform and everyone has an opinion.
Analyse all the contents available here and filter out those that are not beneficial to you.

I'm happy and I think the merit system is the best thing to happen to this forum period. Its not perfect by a long stretch but its done more good than harm.

I would argue that the trust system is a better addition. And has more practical use on the forum.

[Don Pedro Dinero]

I can hardly see why you would draw up a statistic just to disprove it.

To get merit.

[r1s2g3]

   
Legendary rank has 333.33 % chance on getting 1 merit for it has only few number of users reaches this rank. Newbie and jr. member has the lowest chance of getting merit with only 1.29% and 8.92 chance on getting 1 merit respectively.

From Piggy Database

Code:

Select count(*) from (
Select u.username,sum(m.merit) from userdata u,Meritdata M where u.rank='Legendary' and u.userid=m.toid group by u.username )A;

count come as 1185.  So even having 333.3% more chances , only 56% of legendary are able to get merits.
For Jr.Member it is 100% because new system make you Jr.Member When you get one merit.

I could be attest to the demoted to newbie rank users and now was able to rank up to member.

Are you sure? I am seeing you as Jr. Member

[jademaxsuy]

Are you sure? I am seeing you as Jr. Member

Well there were data posted here already from someone who had made some statistics on demoted newbie that was able to rank up again. I was trying to look on that thread but could not found it here.

But, basing on the old system where merit system is not required then probably I am full member now or even senior member basing on my activity (294 activity and posts 511).

The merit system is not a lottery, and it is only considered to be so by those who seem incapable of writing meritable posts.

This is why merit system could be given to any users that has shown meritable posts. I was just only encouraging newbie and jr. members like me to encourage quality posting and contribute meaningfully in the forum stating that merit is not a lottery jackpot that could be hardly to acquired.

I disagree with your statistics. In fact, there may be more than 70% of bots in 2 million users, and 20% are farming accounts. Real users may be less than 10%.

I only quoted the statistics here and made a table to present the data. I am not a computer programmer that could gather data statistically instead I was just only using someone's post as a reference on the data presented in the table.

[Lauda]

99% of those brand new users/newbies/jr. members are shitposting baboons. Therefore the distribution is fine.

It clearly shows that if merit is like a Lottery Jackpot then newbie and jr. member ranks would hardly get merit. This because newbie and jr. member rank has the largest number of users in the forum. It has only a slight chance on getting merit. I will include also that the newbie/jr. member rank has the greatest number of posts activity stated in this post.

False. That's the conclusion that you've come to in order to support your own biased narrative (self-confirmation bias) due to you running a superficial analysis. You can't make any good (such) conclusions on merit distribution without running a quality analysis on all of groups (something which is not possible to do without some very complex machine learning).

[jademaxsuy]

False. That's the conclusion that you've come to in order to support your own biased narrative (self-confirmation bias) due to you running a superficial analysis. You can't make any good (such) conclusions on merit distribution without running a quality analysis on all of groups (something which is not possible to do without some very complex machine learning).

Yes you are right, I forget to add up that all the data presented are for a chance of receiving merit (for probability). This post should not look on how the merit distribution looks like. I do only presented it way that merit is not that hard to acquired for it is not like a lottery that could be difficult to acquired. Sorry for the mess.

[cryptohunter]

Merit seems to be working in a positive way. It is stopping account farmers leveling up and selling accounts. It does not stop the worst bunch of scum which are ico pumping spammers who are getting more inventive with their schemes and fake conversations. This is the main issue on the alt board. However the fact that it is doing some good is reason enough to keep it for sure.

If you are a new poster posting in the alt section you will have a very low probability of getting merit regardless of your post quality compared to if you post in meta.

Meta is now it seems the place a lot of posters have retreated to from the old alt discussion board.  I have no idea why they have not retreated to the serious discussion which seems dead.

Meta though does sadly attract a lot of the sort of people you wanted to kick up the ass at school. Those nitpicking sniveling wretches who want to appeal to authority in the hope of some crumbs of respect over reporting pathetic and counter productive crap from those that make honest mistakes or don't act within their overly PC ideology that does not stand up to logical and reasonable analysis.

Here sadly they can congregate to reinforce on each other that (although in the real world they are mostly pariahs due to normal persons feeling ill after spending much time in their company) they are vital to impose their illogical and unreasonable views upon others. Worse still those types will try to support and enforce obviously unfair and incorrect decisions by those that they perceive to be in power and crave just single merit from them. Again that does not apply to all persons in meta.

I agree that the board should be a place of general pleasantness where at all possible. However sneaky scammers deserve no such consideration it is totally okay to speak to those as you please. Hate of scams and scammers is actually essential. Since meta is a place where most ass lickers congregate looking to shove their noses deep in rectums then you sadly go from an environment of scammers alt discussion board to an environment with a high proportion of ass licking overly PC gimps (not all persons in meta but already i located several).

The best  solution  would be to create junior boards for the bitcoin and alt discussion boards leaving the current btc and alt boards as more senior boards that required  x merits to post on.

Junior boards would be like the old noob jails with a decentralised voting elevation from other members who can then spend their time positively rewarding merit to new good posters and not negatively reporting scammers.  Sadly most would likely remain in meta rewarding each other but still some would probably go there and do a few hours now and then helping genuine and honest good posters gain access to the senior boards. Also no sigs for junior boards. Also instead of bans there could be relegation to junior boards ( certain merit deletions ) for old members who can be shown to be guilty of minor to mid level wrong doing (obviously scamming should be a ban anyway if proven).  

[DdmrDdmr]

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The Lottery %chance table is all wrong, but I really have no intention on going into the specifics. Just seeing that any rank has more than 100% speaks for itself. We really need to be careful presenting numbers as facts.

Lottery is based on having a set of components, each of which has an equal contribution to the draw. That is not so on the forum, as each one’s content contribution is different from the next, this it cannot even begin to be compared to a lottery. Merit is not random based but essentially content based (and a few other elements). In summary, you can talk about distributions, but not chances.

Any Newbie/Jr.Member/whatnot, who has more than two neurons, and puts effort and time into his posts is likely to get merit sooner than later.

[Infinixhot1996]

Merit is,and cannot be a sort of lottery,just as you and all others have said, now, what's the purpose of putting so much work into what you,i,and the two million users on this forum are all aware of

[Marcel666]

Meta is now it seems the place a lot of posters have retreated to from the old alt discussion board.  I have no idea why they have not retreated to the serious discussion which seems dead.

The serious discussion board permits only Jr members and above to post or reply. And it does not allow any kind of signature advertisement, nor does posts made there count to a users post counts.
I believe that's why most users do not post there

The ivory tower has stricter restrictions and only allows full member and above.

[cryptohunter]

Meta is now it seems the place a lot of posters have retreated to from the old alt discussion board.  I have no idea why they have not retreated to the serious discussion which seems dead.

The serious discussion board permits only Jr members and above to post or reply. And it does not allow any kind of signature advertisement, nor does posts made there count to a users post counts.
I believe that's why most users do not post there

The ivory tower has stricter restrictions and only allows full member and above.

Thanks for the reply and I think you have a point for sure.

However a lot people whom I notice from the old alt days are probably not held back by these things I'm not sure why they have mostly moved to meta. Although for sure meta seems an easier place to interact with people that are not primarily interested in promoting icos.

[Marshall14]

Any Newbie/Jr.Member/whatnot, who has more than two neurons, and puts effort and time into his posts is likely to get merit sooner than later.

You're definitely correct,and it's basically this simple:while some users happen to be more knowledgeable than some, hence earn a higher percentage of merits than the others,but really one doesn't need so much knowledge to earn at least one merit which will move one up to the Jr member rank(not like they should be satisfied with this rank)...

Earning one merit should be a point of discussion really,except one isn't ready to contribute on the forum

[krishnaverma]

If you can't post at least 1 high-quality post in the local section, then you don't deserve to get a merit.

Reality is that many members do not have even that much capability. There are various reasons responsible for this but the primary one in my opinion is bad communication skills. This forum has members from all over the world and some people might not have that much good English and thus could not write impressive.

[JetAid]

Knowledge comes from reading and asking questions, so, even if you start with little or no knowlege, you shoud be able to grow if you are an active and constructive memberof the forum. No merits means that either you are posting in the wrong neighbourhood, or you aren't a seeker of knowledge.

[cryptohunter]

Knowledge comes from reading and asking questions, so, even if you start with little or no knowlege, you shoud be able to grow if you are an active and constructive memberof the forum. No merits means that either you are posting in the wrong neighbourhood, or you aren't a seeker of knowledge.

the part about wrong neighbourhood.... is totally correct. However given time I think the alt board will once again become a place you can use.

not sure about not being an active seeker of knowledge but there are several factors that prevent good posts getting extra merit they deserve if compared to posts made in the right place at the right time by the right person.

[petyang12]

not sure about not being an active seeker of knowledge but there are several factors that prevent good posts getting extra merit they deserve if compared to posts made in the right place at the right time by the right person.

Yes, you're right some person post good quality thread but not getting merit at all. I don't find any reason why a forum user not merited even though he/she did contribute in the forum.