Do you think Doctors lie?

[Brigalabdis]

Recently i went to the hospital to check see the doctor and i was told the doctor to attend to me will be back soon, while waiting, he came in and from the look of things he had gone to smoke, it got me thinking, can it be that they are telling us not to do this and that and if you follow them you wont eat anything because everything is bad to health, no drinking of alcohol, smoking of any kind and the list is endless, why would a doctor now turned around and go smoking?

It's not hard to listen right? and it's not a lie, its just a warning for you but then again we all have a choices so whether you accept the fact that all of it should limited or avoid , it's for our own sake. Also their have their own life likewise every people has or have a choice, a freedom of will , a freedom to lie.

[Direwolve735]

Doctors don't study medicine any more, they study propaganda from the Big Pharma companies. Once you realse this, you can see that they don't lie, they are just misguided.

I don`t think it`s correct to talk about all the doctors in general. Everything depends on the country in which the doctor lives and works. For example, there are countries like China, where "natural" medicine and homeopathy play a huge role. This knowledge is transmitted within their culture; they cannot be acquired at Western universities. Therefore, the approaches to treatment there are completely different. And we can`t say that they no longer study medicine, but study propaganda from the Big Pharma companies.

[@kprodip230]

It has been given for a long time that when a doctor-patient interaction comes, one can not always be honest with each other. Some sensitive questions are raised in patients, research shows that it happens rather often. In Massachusetts General Hospital, 11 percent of 11 percent of the 1,800-plus doctors surveyed admitted that they were lying and 55 percent said that they described a patient in a more positive light to the patient than the patient's correctness

[tvbcof]

Is It Time to Retire the Hippocratic Oath?

  https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/873756 [annoy-walled by Medscape]

And as a follow-up, does it even matter?

All vows we are likely to make, all oaths and pledges we are likely to vow, or swear, or consecrate, or prohibit upon ourselves between this Yom Kippur and the next Yom Kippur, we publicly renounce. Let them all be relinquished and abandoned, null and void, neither firm nor established. Our vows are no longer vows, our prohibitions are no longer prohibitions, and our oaths are no longer oaths.
...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD2d7-TQ5eU

[vv181]

It is becoming the norm in my countries(Indonesia) to doesn't trust blindly a doctor except that is a very trustable doctor. It is advisable to consult another doctor to seek a second opinion to make a conclusion for us. I heard a story from a patient that stick with one doctor for his illness, he keeps using a prescription given by the doctor, but without any significant result obtained. He started to seek to another doctor then follow the prescription given, and surprisingly the sickness is getting away significantly.

[ASHLIUSZ]

Doctors have learned to give prescription on drugs and medicines for each and every abnormal things happening with one's body. Apart from this, they are just human beings with all sort of feelings and emotions. In this way they too lie and there is a telling in my town that you should not lie to doctors and lawyers. This is told because, upon the truth we say about our body they'll give medicines. With lawyers we're supposed to say the truth, oy then they can argue with the offender for us.

[dippididodaday]

... BTW, people working in the health care sector are the worst. They don't care about their health, they take drugs without visiting (other) doctors, they are the worst patients to treat.

I find these facts very disturbing. Why should I, a reasonable human being, wanting a healthy life above all else, entrust my most precious condition, to a bunch of skewedly informed, hypocritical self entitled idiots who would not follow suit and do the same?

[tvbcof]

It is becoming the norm in my countries(Indonesia) to doesn't trust blindly a doctor except that is a very trustable doctor. It is advisable to consult another doctor to seek a second opinion to make a conclusion for us. I heard a story from a patient that stick with one doctor for his illness, he keeps using a prescription given by the doctor, but without any significant result obtained. He started to seek to another doctor then follow the prescription given, and surprisingly the sickness is getting away significantly.

In the US today I would HIGHLY suggest that if you are above about 62 years old and need to visit the doctor for a semi-serious condition, bring along someone who at least pretends to care about you.  If you are seen as someone who doesn't have family support you will very possibly be prescribed drugs that will ultimately kill you.

I've seen this happen with my own eyes at least three times involving my own family, and that included my father.  I saved his ass from certain death by doing a little bit of research and finding that the prescription he was issued by his neurologist after having a stroke was killing him in exactly the manner documented.  And fast.  I moved him to different care and got him off those meds and he had another 4 pretty good years.  This was 20 years ago.  More recent experience tells me that the problem (or 'solution') is even worse now.

In my area it is common for a doctor to refuse to take you as a patient unless you sign a document promising to take whatever medicine he/she might prescribe without fail and without question.  My mother struggled with this issue just recently.

My own strategy is to simply leave the country, but it's not practical for most Americans, and it only works well for me because I've no medical issues yet.  I'm laying the ground-work for when I am however.  Glad to see that people are wising up in Indonesia.  Keep it up and I may be paying you guys a visit (and be paying you guys some rupiah.)

[baobao2000]

Doctors are human too, they will get sick and lie just like other people. I have bad and good experience with doctors in the past, some of them are pretty bad, only focus on earn money and don’t really care patient health. Off course there are also good doctors too, and really know what they do and have good knowledge.

[eann014]

Recently i went to the hospital to check see the doctor and i was told the doctor to attend to me will be back soon, while waiting, he came in and from the look of things he had gone to smoke, it got me thinking, can it be that they are telling us not to do this and that and if you follow them you wont eat anything because everything is bad to health, no drinking of alcohol, smoking of any kind and the list is endless, why would a doctor now turned around and go smoking?

A doctors also have their addiction, even they know that the cigarette are not good to their lungs, they still smoke because they are addicted, maybe because they are already addictedd before they've got their license from being a doctor but for sure they have their maintenance for that lifestyle of them. Yes, they can still lie to us, they are also a human like us right? People are not perfect.

[vv181]

~snip
In my area it is common for a doctor to refuse to take you as a patient unless you sign a document promising to take whatever medicine he/she might prescribe without fail and without question.  My mother struggled with this issue just recently.

My own strategy is to simply leave the country, but it's not practical for most Americans, and it only works well for me because I've no medical issues yet.  I'm laying the ground-work for when I am however.  Glad to see that people are wising up in Indonesia.  Keep it up and I may be paying you guys a visit (and be paying you guys some rupiah.)

What a pathetic way of a healthcare system, you are forced to agree to take any prescription given by the doctor without any reason or whatsoever. I'd think there is nothing wrong if a patient or their relatives want to know about the prescription, and I believe they deserved an explanation.

Nah, Indonesian people are far away from wising. That scenario I posted actually only apply to some class of society especially the bourgeoisie one. It is becoming established in their circle to share their trustable doctor, and as expected the cycle continues.

Majority of Indonesian is aware of the problem, but most of them are sticking with a broken healthcare insurance system created by the governments. Capital is their problem, they are forced to use the insurance even though the service for people using the insurance is awful. And also don't forget, There are still a lot of people that believe using alternative medicine that obviously far away from common sense and science.

[Mometaskers]

It is becoming the norm in my countries(Indonesia) to doesn't trust blindly a doctor except that is a very trustable doctor. It is advisable to consult another doctor to seek a second opinion to make a conclusion for us. I heard a story from a patient that stick with one doctor for his illness, he keeps using a prescription given by the doctor, but without any significant result obtained. He started to seek to another doctor then follow the prescription given, and surprisingly the sickness is getting away significantly.

Not just a second but even a third opinion. Especially if the first doctor is recommending a something invasive. There have been cases of people getting unnecessary operations and just getting worse. Doctors are human after all and can make a wrong diagnosis.

[tvbcof]

Nah, Indonesian people are far away from wising. That scenario I posted actually only apply to some class of society especially the bourgeoisie one. It is becoming established in their circle to share their trustable doctor, and as expected the cycle continues.

Majority of Indonesian is aware of the problem, but most of them are sticking with a broken healthcare insurance system created by the governments. Capital is their problem, they are forced to use the insurance even though the service for people using the insurance is awful. And also don't forget, There are still a lot of people that believe using alternative medicine that obviously far away from common sense and science.

I didn't know the Indonesia had the same insurance stuff going on in their 'health' system.  From another currently active thread on this board:

...
The goal of the vaccine program is not to kill people.  Quite the opposite.  When it happens it is usually an accident since because of variations in the population it's hard to get the dosing right.  The batches cooked up for use within 'developed' countries rarely cause mass problems.  'Developing' countries are not always so lucky.

The goal of these vaccines is to create a 'franchise' for various different ailments.  The franchise is more lucrative if the victim is well enough to drag their asses to work.  They can be kept working like slaves without bargaining power if they are sick because it's the only realistic way for most people to afford insurance which, if they have the right set of ailments, they cannot do without.
...

[BADecker]

It is becoming the norm in my countries(Indonesia) to doesn't trust blindly a doctor except that is a very trustable doctor. It is advisable to consult another doctor to seek a second opinion to make a conclusion for us. I heard a story from a patient that stick with one doctor for his illness, he keeps using a prescription given by the doctor, but without any significant result obtained. He started to seek to another doctor then follow the prescription given, and surprisingly the sickness is getting away significantly.

Not just a second but even a third opinion. Especially if the first doctor is recommending a something invasive. There have been cases of people getting unnecessary operations and just getting worse. Doctors are human after all and can make a wrong diagnosis.

... especially when they want to.     

[tvbcof]

It is becoming the norm in my countries(Indonesia) to doesn't trust blindly a doctor except that is a very trustable doctor. It is advisable to consult another doctor to seek a second opinion to make a conclusion for us. I heard a story from a patient that stick with one doctor for his illness, he keeps using a prescription given by the doctor, but without any significant result obtained. He started to seek to another doctor then follow the prescription given, and surprisingly the sickness is getting away significantly.

Not just a second but even a third opinion. Especially if the first doctor is recommending a something invasive. There have been cases of people getting unnecessary operations and just getting worse. Doctors are human after all and can make a wrong diagnosis.

... especially when they want to.     

And when the whole family gets a vacation in Hawaii by moving enough of a certain kind of prescription drug...  On first-class seats if they really go above and beyond in their sales.

On the flip side, doctors rely on a single entity for their license to practice their trade in 'mainstream' settings.  In my country it is the AMA.  If they don't play the AMA's game they don't eat...and most of them have gigantic debts from med school, land rovers, kids at an ivy-legue university, etc.  The choice which most normal people will make is pretty obvious and understandable.  It's relatively easy to avoid information about the damage they might be doing to the peeps, or find a way to justify it if little snippets get through.  Humans are relatively good ad such things.

[BADecker]

It is becoming the norm in my countries(Indonesia) to doesn't trust blindly a doctor except that is a very trustable doctor. It is advisable to consult another doctor to seek a second opinion to make a conclusion for us. I heard a story from a patient that stick with one doctor for his illness, he keeps using a prescription given by the doctor, but without any significant result obtained. He started to seek to another doctor then follow the prescription given, and surprisingly the sickness is getting away significantly.

Not just a second but even a third opinion. Especially if the first doctor is recommending a something invasive. There have been cases of people getting unnecessary operations and just getting worse. Doctors are human after all and can make a wrong diagnosis.

... especially when they want to.      

And when the whole family gets a vacation in Hawaii by moving enough of a certain kind of prescription drug...  On first-class seats if they really go above and beyond in their sales.

On the flip side, doctors rely on a single entity for their license to practice their trade in 'mainstream' settings.  In my country it is the AMA.  If they don't play the AMA's game they don't eat...and most of them have gigantic debts from med school, land rovers, kids at an ivy-legue university, etc.  The choice which most normal people will make is pretty obvious and understandable.  It's relatively easy to avoid information about the damage they might be doing to the peeps, or find a way to justify it if little snippets get through.  Humans are relatively good ad such things.

Most doctors are compassionate, loving, caring human beings. By the time they realize how widespread medical criminality is, they have a wife, a couple of kids, and a big mortgage. They are caught between a rock and a hard place that they never dreamed of in their pre-med years.

Some doctors are finding the answer in private membership associations (PMA). DuckDuckGo search on "private membership association" to see how doctors and other medical people are offering their services by private contract to their private contract clients. All this without the ability of the AMA or FDA to stop them legally from using unorthodox treatments that work.

PMA might be small, now, but they are emerging. They just might run Big Pharma into the ground, someday.

[tvbcof]

Most doctors are compassionate, loving, caring human beings. By the time they realize how widespread medical criminality is, they have a wife, a couple of kids, and a big mortgage. They are caught between a rock and a hard place that they never dreamed of in their pre-med years.

Some doctors are finding the answer in private membership associations (PMA). DuckDuckGo search on "private membership association" to see how doctors and other medical people are offering their services by private contract to their private contract clients. All this without the ability of the AMA or FDA to stop them legally from using unorthodox treatments that work.

PMA might be small, now, but they are emerging. They just might run Big Pharma into the ground, someday.

The PMA tip is a good one.  I DDG'd it but found relatively little.  It's a good idea, and yes, I would expect it to be attacked viciously by everyone with a vested interest in the status quo.*

I don't fool myself into thinking that there is less corruption in overseas medical systems, but the economics are different.  I don't doubt that the .01% can and do get decent care by going around the pleb system, but they pay dearly for it I'm sure, and leverage other connections that I don't care to try to tap into.

The U.S. medical/industrial complex is so lucerative that there is a lot of money spend on policing in order to make sure it runs as-is.  A run-of-the-mill SE Asian country just doesn't have the kind of private wealth needed to warrant keeping doctors on the straight-and-narrow.  Thus, I expect that I'll be able to afford 'specialized' medical care for probably less than it would cost me to be killed here.  Time will tell.

---

(*) A friend of mine just broke her arm ice skating.  The fracture was such that they did not immobilze the elbow, but they did put some metal in so, to be fair, it wasn't completely trivial...or at least the treatment chosen for it was not.  She was out of the hospital on the same day and she has no other medical complications.

The total bill for my friend's broken arm is going to be North of $50,000.  That would be 700,000,000 Indonesian Rupiah or 2,500,000 Philippines Peso.  ...or slightly under 13 Bitcoin

---

Edit:  Here's an update on the broken arm for anyone who is interested in medical costs in the U.S....potentially for the purposes of capitalizing on the 'medical tourism' opportunities which it may open up...

Only one of the bones in the arm was fractured, and it was a very 'clean' break (which actually may be why a metal rod could have made some medical sense.)  Not sure if it was the radius or ulna which was broken.  The total time in the hospital was under 3 hours.  The surgery took about 40 minutes and the bill for that was $32,000 dollars.  Not sure if that includes the surgery required for the rod to be removed or not.  Probably not, I would guess, since I don't think they pre-bill for such things.  The total bill is expected to be WELL North of $50,000 dollars.

Looks like I better get set up with a 'PMA' here at home if I can find one since I do do rather dangerous work which risks injury from time to time.  I'll certainly be going overseas for any medical work which can be scheduled.

[peonminer]

People have free will. The Dr probably knows smoking is bad for you, proven fact. They just don't care because their addiction or stress out weighs the risks.

[natalia stark]

Recently i went to the hospital to check see the doctor and i was told the doctor to attend to me will be back soon, while waiting, he came in and from the look of things he had gone to smoke, it got me thinking, can it be that they are telling us not to do this and that and if you follow them you wont eat anything because everything is bad to health, no drinking of alcohol, smoking of any kind and the list is endless, why would a doctor now turned around and go smoking?

that depends on the person himself you are visiting for the treatment and recommendation because there are so many good and best doctors who think the profession is a sacred duty to perform and help people. But some times doctors are stopping you from the things that they are donig themselves. Like most common example is the smoking. almost all the doctors smoke but they stop you from that thing.

this is not loyalty to the profession. they should be honest about everything they say and they should not do thing they stop you from.

[BestSSS]

Recently i went to the hospital to check see the doctor and i was told the doctor to attend to me will be back soon, while waiting, he came in and from the look of things he had gone to smoke, it got me thinking, can it be that they are telling us not to do this and that and if you follow them you wont eat anything because everything is bad to health, no drinking of alcohol, smoking of any kind and the list is endless, why would a doctor now turned around and go smoking?

Doctors are people too and often they are just simply doing their job. Each person has positive traits and bad habits from which even doctors can not get rid of knowing that it is harmful.
If you come to the doctor you do not have to complain about the fact that what he forbids you he does himself, because sometimes it is that what you contraindicated to another person will benefit.
We are all different and sometimes you just have to listen to the other person and not look at what he does.