Theymos please review Legendary account perma banned

[33bitcoin]

Seems like he was only posting helpful annoucements, it's not like he was deceiving people with stolen content. A perm ban seems unfair imo.

[bones261]

Seems like he was only posting helpful annoucements, it's not like he was deceiving people with stolen content. A perm ban seems unfair imo.

     I agree, I would think a commercial service would not mind that their announcement is being disseminated, even "plagiarized." Isn't that what going "viral" is all about? The only thing that they would have issue with is if the person modified the links to direct to a phishing website or other scam.
    However, it appears that the post that was actually reported was not an announcement but a direct copy paste of another user's brief analysis.

[cryptohunter]

Seems like he was only posting helpful annoucements, it's not like he was deceiving people with stolen content. A perm ban seems unfair imo.

I agree, I would think a commercial service would not mind that their announcement is being disseminated, even "plagiarized." Isn't that what going "viral" is all about? The only thing that they would have issue with is if the person modified the links to direct to a phishing website or other scam.

Is this what happened there ? or are you just giving an example of what we need to be careful about?

I mean I am willing to help people who have through nobodies fault really been struck off ( i mean reporters do good work i know this but we just need to make sure some done accidentally become snagged by the well meaning net)

I have not examined the entire post history but on these examples he seems to not be the kind of person we are desperate to rid the board of.

I hope staff will have another look at him and see what can be  done.

[bones261]

I agree, I would think a commercial service would not mind that their announcement is being disseminated, even "plagiarized." Isn't that what going "viral" is all about? The only thing that they would have issue with is if the person modified the links to direct to a phishing website or other scam.

Is this what happened there ? or are you just giving an example of what we need to be careful about?

    Here is the post that was reported and acted upon.

As above, plagiarism. This was the post that was reported:

this looks like something like a DPoS chain where, delegates are Provisioners but in this case Blocks generation isn't a delegate's task but there other light nodes doing that. I've yet to understand why is more efficent then a DPoS system

I think I saw something similar in Multiversum blockchain project: it looks like something like a DPoS chain where, delegates are Provisioners but in this case Blocks generation isn't a delegate's task but there other light nodes doing that, but I've yet to understand it correctly...

I suppose that it is a nice touch that the OP was more specific as to the project. However, he could have just put together his own words instead of copying someone's post and then modifying it. Even a ftfy quote would have been more appropriate.

[cryptohunter]

Please study this carefully. I have a lot of sympathy for these particular copy and pastes the more I read them. I think he deserves another chance here. Or actually on the basis of these he is being misunderstood especially on some of them.

You're missing the point of why plagiarism is bad. It's not because the content is worthless. It might be very useful or even meritorious as you pointed out. It's because of the attempt to pass it as their own.

Had the OP added quote tags and source it would have been fine.

Okay but a clear annoucement from  cryptopia ..... is clearly not your own work.

I do not think pasting relevant news from the project owners social media or alerting a bunch of people to fact their coins are about to get stolen in a swap by posting the exchanges announcement to the thread is something we should even consider worth a ban.

Are you saying we should ban some legend on the basis of this announcement copying and pasting to appropriate communities? Is this your serious opinion? Please tell me why you think this? Disregard any other factors at this time.

[Lafu]

Here is our offical released link from Cryptopia about the Swap and the post  !

https://support.cryptopia.co.nz/csm?id=kb_article&sys_id=dac63ed8dbc4e74032a664a14a961953

[mainconcept]

Seems like he was only posting helpful annoucements

Please clarify, do you mean helpful posts like this one?


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2401104.msg39934903#msg39934903

June 12, 2018, 10:12:58 AM

Great Project!, I love StakeIt!

Big wishes for this project to gain a massive success!

Original: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2401104.msg32949393#msg32949393 archived

March 23, 2018, 05:32:18 AM

Great Project!, I love StakeIt!

Big wishes for this project to gain a massive success!

As a longstanding member, you probably know this rule already, but just in case:

25. Ban evasion (using or creating accounts while one of your accounts is banned) is not allowed.[e]

Means you can't use your alt safariwave (and other alts) anymore:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2165660.msg21700004#msg21700004 archived

wallet address : 14rAVwzVbZYkgdyHiJj1uYGbehVNcYdM4b

14rAVwzVbZYkgdyHiJj1uYGbehVNcYdM4b

[cryptohunter]

Seems like he was only posting helpful annoucements

Please clarify, do you mean helpful posts like this one?


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2401104.msg39934903#msg39934903

June 12, 2018, 10:12:58 AM

Great Project!, I love StakeIt!

Big wishes for this project to gain a massive success!

Original: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2401104.msg32949393#msg32949393 archived

March 23, 2018, 05:32:18 AM

Great Project!, I love StakeIt!

Big wishes for this project to gain a massive success!

As a longstanding member, you probably know this rule already, but just in case:

25. Ban evasion (using or creating accounts while one of your accounts is banned) is not allowed.[e]

Means you can't use your alt safariwave (and other alts) anymore:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2165660.msg21700004#msg21700004 archived

wallet address : 14rAVwzVbZYkgdyHiJj1uYGbehVNcYdM4b

14rAVwzVbZYkgdyHiJj1uYGbehVNcYdM4b

I don't think there is any need to have a go at this guy. He was commenting on the evidence provided.

We have all claimed airdrops at one time perhaps.

I remember I claimed 6 million US dollars once  for posting a couple of words here once.  I think we all copy and paste each other saying  I actually thought my own words up (since I didn't have mouse and was using a laptop i was not aware that the time that control c and v could do such things imagine when i found control z this is a life saver) "sounds awesome"  those days we were sensible about crediting prior art

However on this case I can spare no more time right now. Seems a minor offender and some of his copy and paste could have saved people losing their coins...I hope whatever the outcome it will be fair.

[bones261]

Seems like he was only posting helpful annoucements

Please clarify, do you mean helpful posts like this one?


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2401104.msg39934903#msg39934903

June 12, 2018, 10:12:58 AM

Great Project!, I love StakeIt!

Big wishes for this project to gain a massive success!

Original: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2401104.msg32949393#msg32949393 archived

March 23, 2018, 05:32:18 AM

Great Project!, I love StakeIt!

Big wishes for this project to gain a massive success!

Wow, that is just plain lazy.

[suchmoon]

Okay but a clear annoucement from  cryptopia ..... is clearly not your own work.

I do not think pasting relevant news from the project owners social media or alerting a bunch of people to fact their coins are about to get stolen in a swap by posting the exchanges announcement to the thread is something we should even consider worth a ban.

Are you saying we should ban some legend on the basis of this announcement copying and pasting to appropriate communities? Is this your serious opinion? Please tell me why you think this? Disregard any other factors at this time.

I'm not fighting your army of straw people. Multiple copy-pasta examples have been provided. It costs nothing for the poster to add quotes and references. It is absurd to rely on some undefined potential leniency instead.

Again, the ban is not for the content. It's for the improper use of the content. If you plagiarize a college essay you're not getting away with a B- and a slap on the wrist if you get caught, even if you copy it from your BFF with her permission. So unless theymos explicitly tells us that posting announcements and other shit from external sites without references is acceptable - we should continue to assume that it's not.

Seems a minor offender and some of his copy and paste could have saved people losing their coins...I hope whatever the outcome it will be fair.

See that's why your whole "1 in 1000" defense is so fallacious. You get 1, 2, 3, 4 examples of copy pasta and it's still "a minor offender". You're wasting everyone's time by arguing these hopeless cases. Go and report a few hundred posts instead. There is no need to encourage shitposters.

[cryptohunter]

Okay but a clear annoucement from  cryptopia ..... is clearly not your own work.

I do not think pasting relevant news from the project owners social media or alerting a bunch of people to fact their coins are about to get stolen in a swap by posting the exchanges announcement to the thread is something we should even consider worth a ban.

Are you saying we should ban some legend on the basis of this announcement copying and pasting to appropriate communities? Is this your serious opinion? Please tell me why you think this? Disregard any other factors at this time.

I'm not fighting your army of straw people. Multiple copy-pasta examples have been provided. It costs nothing for the poster to add quotes and references. It is absurd to rely on some undefined potential leniency instead.

Again, the ban is not for the content. It's for the improper use of the content. If you plagiarize a college essay you're not getting away with a B- and a slap on the wrist if you get caught, even if you copy it from your BFF with her permission. So unless theymos explicitly tells us that posting announcements and other shit from external sites without references is acceptable - we should continue to assume that it's not.

Let's stay civil if possible,.  forget whether you consider it a strawman. I just want to know if you have an opinion. I mean you are not a bot right so you have a human mind that can form an opinion of your own.


can you answer my question ? I am just interested in your answer. There is no reason not to answer and make your position clear.

Do you want to see legends/anyone banned for copy and pasting an announcement that is very useful to members of their community and is quite clearly not their own work and is simply a copy and pasted announcement from an exchange ?

Yes you think they should be banned or NO you do not think they should.

How much copy and paste or paraphrasing is allowed. I mean are you saying if you can prove what is copy and paste spliced with own words originates with another party then they should be banned?

2 questions contained.

To answer your second point this does not crush my 1 in 1000 offences idea. I do not think the cryptopia announcement would count as anything other than being useful. The other one where he admitted he was lazy would. As they stack up I guess it gets harder to make a case but so far I see nothing to say he is dangerous of creating a problem with the forum.

Guides helping people prevent loss of investment and reducing his own stake is not posting "other shit"  this is preventing people getting burned and leaving this arena feeling cheated and disillusioned.

Honestly I believe people who are meta hermits have not got a complete understanding of this environment. That is not being nasty to anyone this is honestly what I think. You need to have experience of being is many different positions as a supporter of multiple projects and experience many different scenarios which most will have not experienced from dealing with just btc or living in meta.

To understand how useful or not useful something is sometimes requires you to have been in a position where such information could have been presented to you is. These are sometimes not obvious unless you have had to find out the hard way for yourself.

[suchmoon]

Do you want to see legends/anyone banned for copy and pasting an announcement that is very useful to members of their community and is quite clearly not their own work and is simply a copy and pasted announcement from an exchange ?

I hate long-winded contrived loaded questions but I'll humor you on this one.

Under the current rules - yes, they should be banned. It should not be up to moderators to try and figure out the "usefulness" or some other merits (no pun intended) of copy-pasta.

In an ideal world I would prefer castration signature removal or a 500 merit penalty as an alternative punishment for the first offence. That way a truly accidental/unintentional 1-in-a-1000 infraction would not be fatal but 2 or 3 would be.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I am sad you lost your legend account. I was trying to help you but it seems there are too many instances for me to try to build a case in your favour.

I don't know why you're spending time trying to defend these people anyway.  Anyone with a Legendary account ought to know the rules and even if they didn't, they still ought to know plagiarism is wrong.

You are definitely a bleeding heart on a forum where there needs to be more strictness and less tolerance of crap like this, because plagiarism/account sales/shitposting/greed/stupidity are all rampant.  No need to mourn the loss of a Legendary account unless it's your own.  That's just my opinion, and don't take that as an attack on you personally.  We had a major disagreement over the Rambotnic situation, but most of these other cases are pretty cut and dried.

I respect the fact that you don't want to see injustice, but if a ban is handed out wrongly, more likely than not Theymos will reverse it.

[cryptohunter]

Do you want to see legends/anyone banned for copy and pasting an announcement that is very useful to members of their community and is quite clearly not their own work and is simply a copy and pasted announcement from an exchange ?

I hate long-winded contrived loaded questions but I'll humor you on this one.

Under the current rules - yes, they should be banned. It should not be up to moderators to try and figure out the "usefulness" or some other merits (no pun intended) of copy-pasta.

In an ideal world I would prefer castration signature removal or a 500 merit penalty as an alternative punishment for the first offence. That way a truly accidental/unintentional 1-in-a-1000 infraction would not be fatal but 2 or 3 would be.

I think I should take this as a NO. Since I asked what you would like to see.

That is a credit to you. 1 in 1000 seems reasonable.  

@ The pharmacist

I do not defend the person I defend the right to a fair decision based on observable events or evidence at hand.

I once did not do enough for a person that was getting bullied. I have regretted it severely and although it was too late to help them I always try to help achieve a fair solution when I get the opportunity.

Legends some for sure have put a lot of work into this forum. A couple of mistakes are not why we are coming down hard on copy and paste right now as we all know.

There is no need for emotion really. I simply think the more you put in the more you can expect back.

I did not fall out with you on that thread. I simply feel you were wrong. If you felt you were correct in light of all evidence I presented then there was no need for me to fall out with you. I was glad I could help that person to what I considered a better position than if I had not found that case. I remember you from way back. I didn't like how you continued to say dash was a good project after my great cake analogy that you enjoyed... i was certain you would see how unfair and terrible that manner of distribution was (back then). But you are not a scammer so I just figured we can not all have the same view of what is fair.  

I am  sure over all that you are net positive here, so i would stick up for you if there was a couple of mistakes in your post history that one day may be grounds for your banning. If it didn't seem fair I would help you. If that makes me a bleeding heart that is of no consequence to me.

[suchmoon]

I think I should take this as a NO. Since I asked what you would like to see.

That is a credit to you. 1 in 1000 seems reasonable.  

Yeah I knew you would like it if I threw "1 in 1000" in.

Except I haven't seen any such phenomenon yet. If there is 1 usually there's 2 and 3 as well. My suggestion for a softer penalty was aimed at reducing the bitching about bans and reducing the need for someone to go digging for that 2nd or 3rd offence, because that time is better spent reporting another 100 shitposters.

[cryptohunter]

I think I should take this as a NO. Since I asked what you would like to see.

That is a credit to you. 1 in 1000 seems reasonable.  

Yeah I knew you would like it if I threw "1 in 1000" in.

Except I haven't seen any such phenomenon yet. If there is 1 usually there's 2 and 3 as well. My suggestion for a softer penalty was aimed at reducing the bitching about bans and reducing the need for someone to go digging for that 2nd or 3rd offence, because that time is better spent reporting another 100 shitposters.

I did like it. Thanks.

Now. I am actually devising a system that will deal with all of this. I am counting actually on your support. I am not a master of game theory though so I will need it stress  tested before implementation.

In return I will allow you to continue to benefit from my prior art without " " nor full citation and  I will not insist you pay me 0.1 btc to review your post history. Nor even report you. People may say I am making favourites here but I  say to them become a legend with 13k posts and spend hours  helping return the alt discussion to usable form and you too can benefit from my toil.

If you had supported my call for junior boards even if just for the alt discussion you would probably not need be spending your time doing those reports you could be feeling very positive for rewarding the good instead of punishing the bad.

[r1s2g3]

My point is, what would happen if each single user is "scanned" like me today? How many would survive?

You are free to scan and find the answer.

Since I read mainly the altcoin sections, I would say that 90% of posters there should be banned, if the rules would be strictly applied. But I don't think this is the way of handling a community, banning everybody.

You are correct that banning everybody is not a way to build a community, but welcoming everybody is also not a way to build a community when they do not fit the bill.

In almost 5 years, I posted over 1600 posts. Is it correct to ban me because I made some mistakes? My overall reputation and positive feedbacks are nothing? Did somebody complain about me or my posts, except the one that I clearly copied? Zero tolerance for everybody, or only for me?

Apart for plagiarism, you are in spammers list   too.

I think this forum has the privilege to lead a movement. It should include more and more people, not only kick them out.

Many of the initiatives in this forum are voluntary.  Anybody is free to join and start.

[jademaxsuy]

I just only think that a legendary account was being wasted while other are diligently to rank up even in member rank. Sad but OP has already move on with the loss. Let us always be careful to copy and paste post from articles or other peoples work for it really be resulted to banning account.

[yeswepump_banned]

Thanks ALL for discussing my case and for underlining my full or partial mistakes.

Once again, I would ask to reconsider my account not only for mistakes, but also if I made something good for the forum and community over the years. If I will be here in future, for sure I learned the lesson.

As somebody suggested, only Theymos could revoke my ban, so could somebody please ask him to give his final opinion so I don't bother anymore?

Thanks

[TryNinja]

Thanks ALL for discussing my case and for underlining my full or partial mistakes.

Once again, I would ask to reconsider my account not only for mistakes, but also if I made something good for the forum and community over the years. If I will be here in future, for sure I learned the lesson.

As somebody suggested, only Theymos could revoke my ban, so could somebody please ask him to give his final opinion so I don't bother anymore?

Thanks

He probably doesn’t have time for this. You broke the rules and you got banned. Usually it doesn’t matter if you did a lot of « great » for the forum over the years.

Learn the lesson this way: always read the rules first, and never break them. Otherwise, you may lose everything you earned over the years (i.e your account). Just move on.