My Legendary account has been banned - I accept my punishment, now what ?

[cryptohunter]

I will not take part of bounty/signature campain ever (please someone quote this message).
And i will keep in my signature that i got ban for plagiarism (please quote me again!).

Quoted and archived.

Thanks for that.
Now just waiting to hear about admin / modo to see if i can carry on or if i need to go.

cheers

You are giving up on your legend account for that??

I would not give up so fast.

Why did you even copy and past that shit you could have written it yourself in 2 seconds.

Theymos has clearly said copy and paste is not a perm ban in all cases. We are not robots here. Depends on the context.

A legend account of this age deserves much more consideration than these shit bots and pure sig pumping scammers

Have you ever copy and paste before?

I mean I think you would have a chance. The only worry about it is it seems financially motivated and not just for a joke or for a guide etc.

I do not think it is a certain ban only Theymos can decide on it.

I hate to see real legends (not bought accounts) go down for one stupid error.

I think it is harsh.  This account should only be locked down until mods hear from theymos himself. Legend accounts should have full context of their entire history here. If you have done some good for this forum in 4 years one stupid error like this should be punished perhaps by rank reduction down to senior or perhaps no banners for 2 years. Or something.

This is quite an important case and I had been told no legend had been banned for 1 or 2 copy and paste errors over their entire history which now seems incorrect and I see it has happened here. The copy and paste part is pathetic actually it has no original thought and it would take me longer to copy and paste and splice that other crap in that just write it myself from scratch.

I will certainly say this is not something to give up on so quickly there is a small hope here depending on your contribution over the years. If you are generally just out for financial gain you will likely be gone however if for years you contributed well and just out of enthusiasm for the decentralised trustless arena we all want to see arrive then I would feel you are getting unfairly treated.

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[LoyceV]

Theymos has clearly said copy and paste is not a perm ban in all cases. We are not robots here. Depends on the context.

Theymos also said this:

• Plagiarism: If you copy some text from somewhere, then you should have a good reason for it, and you must link to the source. Doing otherwise is plagiarism. Changing a few words around doesn't matter. If we find that you plagiarized, then you absolutely will be permanently banned, even if we find it years after you did it.

[cryptohunter]

Theymos has clearly said copy and paste is not a perm ban in all cases. We are not robots here. Depends on the context.

Theymos also said this:

• Plagiarism: If you copy some text from somewhere, then you should have a good reason for it, and you must link to the source. Doing otherwise is plagiarism. Changing a few words around doesn't matter. If we find that you plagiarized, then you absolutely will be permanently banned, even if we find it years after you did it.

I will rely on his most recent thoughts on the matter. Not that they are mutually exclusive anyway. He seems a very fair person and I would try my best to get my case in front of him to make the final decision. If then he says ban we can be sure it was not one that had enough merit to balance his mistake.

I would hope that he will receive a punishment of some sort as a warning to others but a perma ban seems harsh unless a large proportion of his participation is just motivated by financial gain.

Legends of all persons have contributed the most so I would expect at least a bit of a review into this should be given.

The more you put in the more you get out. That is my feeling on all things. I've never heard of this legend and has a very low post count but still he may have done some important work here in the past.

I would estimate here 60% chance of perm ban. Because it is clearly for financial reasons. If it were just to answer a question someone asked or as a joke or any reason not obviously for financial gain and he had a good history other than that I would think this would drop to 20%.  Still worth pushing for a decision from the top if possible. Legend accounts will not be growing on trees now.

This forum is a great place. Lot's of lengends (and others before 2017 swarm) were all part of a good community. I support the work of these reporters in general especially toward this latest wave of financial spammers. However legends and heros were never initially here for that reason. Most are here to support decentralised trustless and transparent projects and many here have done their best to stop scams taking over and ruining the image of this entire arena.

This guy must have been suffering some kind of breakdown to copy and paste that pile of shit. It is garbage anyone could spew in 3 seconds or less. He must be kicking himself potentially losing a legend account over that. I bet he would never do it again if was reduced to snr. Even reduced to full but to lose your account fully is crushing. All your posts gone your entire history deleted.

If i were him i would not give up so soon. There is some hope I think of a slap on the wrist and a kick up the ass but full termination is not something to just accept without doing your best to avoid.

[William8062]

You are giving up on your legend account for that??
I would not give up so fast.

Well, i tried, no one except you is keen to give me the benefit of the doubt or lessen my punishment.

Why did you even copy and past that shit you could have written it yourself in 2 seconds.

I explained it on a previous post, i was in a hurry and super stress, it was hours before going to my honeymoon trip and not everything was planned/organised/booked

A legend account of this age deserves much more consideration than these shit bots and pure sig pumping scammers
Have you ever copy and paste before?

Indeed, and no, i don't believe i have copied in pasted in the past.

I think it is harsh.  This account should only be locked down until mods hear from theymos himself. Legend accounts should have full context of their entire history here. If you have done some good for this forum in 4 years one stupid error like this should be punished perhaps by rank reduction down to senior or perhaps no banners for 2 years. Or something.

I think so too

Theymos has clearly said copy and paste is not a perm ban in all cases. We are not robots here. Depends on the context.

Theymos also said this:

• Plagiarism: If you copy some text from somewhere, then you should have a good reason for it, and you must link to the source. Doing otherwise is plagiarism. Changing a few words around doesn't matter. If we find that you plagiarized, then you absolutely will be permanently banned, even if we find it years after you did it.

Theymos wrote this sometime after my mistake, i couldn't be aware of his message/post  when i did my "plagiarism"

Also, to be fair, (wrote it in a previous message on this thread), i never really read the rules (unofficial + written after i signed up, and located in a part of forum i alsmost never go), i was just on the forum and behaving to what i though was normal behavior.

This guy must have been suffering some kind of breakdown to copy and paste that pile of shit. It is garbage anyone could spew in 3 seconds or less. He must be kicking himself potentially losing a legend account over that. I bet he would never do it again if was reduced to snr. Even reduced to full but to lose your account fully is crushing. All your posts gone your entire history deleted.

Indeed it was a very stressful time, no i won't do it. Yes i feel stupid.

I've never heard of this legend and has a very low post count but still he may have done some important work here in the past.

I don't post much in the english part of it. But i have 1236 posts 
I do have a few quality posts (highlighted in previous messages), but i mainly used the forum to read, to exchange with french peers, to give advice and tips based on my experience.

Because it is clearly for financial reasons.

Funny enough i didn't do this campaign for the money, I have been a client/user/customer of paymium since i started BTC (december 2013).
They are french like me (cocoricooo !), and i wanted to be part of their new adventure. It is important to states that paymium is one of the first exchange in the world, they started in May 2010.
The 25euros or so that i would have won are not a big sum of money when i look at my real life salary and the saving i have since to being in the crypto sphere since 2013. I also have written in previous messages that i would be happy to forfeit the proceeds  of this campaign to a charity.

If i were him i would not give up so soon. There is some hope I think of a slap on the wrist and a kick up the ass but full termination is not something to just accept without doing your best to avoid.

To get the closure i need (perma ban or not, can i have an alt or not), i would donate $50 (us$) to Theymos, or to the forum or to any approved charity if Theymos comes here, and give his final answer on my case.

[William8062]

Reply to my previous post,
I did find this from Theymos.

I mostly agree with hilarious's posts. The plagiarism was exactly the same offense as any member of the typical spammer flood, with exactly the same mindset: "I want money -> I need to make x posts with y words to make money -> the easiest way to do that is to copy/paste something from elsewhere", with complete disregard for your own integrity, the health of the forum, the ongoing discussion, or fairness in crediting the actual author. If someone copy/pasted something that was amazingly high-quality and on-topic, I'd understand more (though you'd still get banned), but almost always people copy the first thing that they find on Google. To be so lazy that you won't even make up your own low-quality post, but instead save a few minutes by importing some garbage from the wider Internet, is a massive insult to this forum's community, and is proof that at least in that moment the only thing you cared about was money-making.

I don't believe in a "strict rule of law"; even if it's written somewhere that "copy/paste = permaban", I'm willing to relax that on occasion. If you're going to be a net positive to the forum going forward, then I probably want you here, even if you've made past mistakes. But someone who at any point copy/pastes garbage like this has proven that they have an utterly broken mindset when it comes to the forum, and I have a really hard time believing that such a person will be a net positive going forward.

I have a feeling that my request (remove perma ban) will not be granted



What about my other question :
Can i stick around and start again from scratch if i stick to what i said below :

I will not take part of bounty/signature campain ever (please someone quote this message).
And i will keep in my signature that i got ban for plagiarism (please quote me again!).

Quoted and archived.

Note that you can't have a signature unless you reach Jr. Member or buy a Copper Membership.

It would really piss me off to get banned (again !) in 1 year because i made an alt (william8062) to escape my perma-ban (now that i know the rule, i know that Ban escaping is punished by a ban !)

[cryptohunter]

If you can really prove you didn't do it for financial reasons you can try to ask theymos about it.

Legends should be allowed one silly mistake if they really are net positive over all. I am sure now you see how easy to lose 4 years work you will not do it again.

I see some more legends getting banned.

I would give you another change because I think if it really was only 1 time and you have made 1200 other good posts over 4 years then okay. Perhaps I knock you back to hero or snr and take away your sig for a year and make clear no more chances.

The fact most of your posts are french makes it hard to review your post history.

Anyway good luck on this.

[hilariousetc]

Why did you even copy and past that shit you could have written it yourself in 2 seconds.

I explained it on a previous post, i was in a hurry and super stress, it was hours before going to my honeymoon trip and not everything was planned/organised/booked

Why would you even be on this forum just a few hours before you're going on honeymoon? Doesn't make any sense to me. If I was going on a vacation that day this forum would be the least of my worries, especially if you hadn't got everything planned or booked. This just sounds like another variation of the classic I was under some stress/pressure excuse.

If you can really prove you didn't do it for financial reasons you can try to ask theymos about it.

Legends should be allowed one silly mistake if they really are net positive over all. I am sure now you see how easy to lose 4 years work you will not do it again.

I see some more legends getting banned.

I would give you another change because I think if it really was only 1 time and you have made 1200 other good posts over 4 years then okay. Perhaps I knock you back to hero or snr and take away your sig for a year and make clear no more chances.

The fact most of your posts are french makes it hard to review your post history.

Anyway good luck on this.

You could argue that Legendaries should know better. I think if we allow them a free pass on certain things then lower-ranked users would then complain that they're being unfairly punished. I think the only exception I'd be ok with is if they had their signature removed/banned and they lose their ability to earn via it here. We could maybe look at just letting the community handle copy and pasters with negative feedback like like we do with scams, but sadly most ICO campaigns don't care about negative feedback and they'd still be able to get away with this behaviour which isn't ok.

[cryptohunter]

Why did you even copy and past that shit you could have written it yourself in 2 seconds.

I explained it on a previous post, i was in a hurry and super stress, it was hours before going to my honeymoon trip and not everything was planned/organised/booked

Why would you even be on this forum just a few hours before you're going on honeymoon? Doesn't make any sense to me. If I was going on a vacation that day this forum would be the least of my worries, especially if you hadn't got everything planned or booked. This just sounds like another variation of the classic I was under some stress/pressure excuse.

If you can really prove you didn't do it for financial reasons you can try to ask theymos about it.

Legends should be allowed one silly mistake if they really are net positive over all. I am sure now you see how easy to lose 4 years work you will not do it again.

I see some more legends getting banned.

I would give you another change because I think if it really was only 1 time and you have made 1200 other good posts over 4 years then okay. Perhaps I knock you back to hero or snr and take away your sig for a year and make clear no more chances.

The fact most of your posts are french makes it hard to review your post history.

Anyway good luck on this.

You could argue that Legendaries should know better. I think if we allow them a free pass on certain things then lower-ranked users would then complain that they're being unfairly punished. I think the only exception I'd be ok with is if they had their signature removed/banned and they lose their ability to earn via it here. We could maybe look at just letting the community handle copy and pasters with negative feedback like like we do with scams, but sadly most ICO campaigns don't care about negative feedback and they'd still be able to get away with this behaviour which isn't ok.

It may be best to remove all sigs anyway.

I personally do not care about what lower rank users say about that most commenting on it have been here 5 mins. We could make a criteria 1 copy and paste per 1000 good posts. Applied to all.

That's retroactive. From now on zero tolerance and that is a default PM all new joiners get and a mass message sent out to all anyway.

Yep ban their sigs,  slap them back to snr member. But to lose your legendary account here is the loss of all your work. Some have put a solid year of their lives ....solid in hour terms into this board.  To have that deleted is massive over 1 copy and paste.

We all know really there was no worry that much about this until the real ico scammers, pumpers bot and other board destroyers turned up.  

[suchmoon]

You could argue that Legendaries should know better. I think if we allow them a free pass on certain things then lower-ranked users would then complain that they're being unfairly punished. I think the only exception I'd be ok with is if they had their signature removed/banned and they lose their ability to earn via it here.

This. Take their signatures and avatars away and see how many of them are actually dedicated to the forum with no financial incentive. I'd guess this would be equivalent to permaban for 90% of them.

We could make a criteria 1 copy and paste per 1000 good posts. Applied to all.

This is unenforceable. Nobody in their right mind is going to spend time checking 1000 posts of some asshole to make sure they have only 1 plagiarised post.

[cryptohunter]

You could argue that Legendaries should know better. I think if we allow them a free pass on certain things then lower-ranked users would then complain that they're being unfairly punished. I think the only exception I'd be ok with is if they had their signature removed/banned and they lose their ability to earn via it here.

This. Take their signatures and avatars away and see how many of them are actually dedicated to the forum with no financial incentive. I'd guess this would be equivalent to permaban for 90% of them.

We could make a criteria 1 copy and paste per 1000 good posts. Applied to all.

This is unenforceable. Nobody in their right mind is going to spend time checking 1000 posts of some asshole to make sure they have only 1 plagiarised post.

Agree on the remove sigs ... a year for each offence found or just for good.

Agree nobody in their right mind would do it for free. Although I would expect a bot could easily be coded to run their entire post history against google for matches. They could pay for this if they want to not get banned or pay for manual review. I dont expect most would mind paying 0.1 btc for review and keeping their account.

I mean we are talking 1 in 1000 posts. Not real ico pump teams and scammers fucking the board up.

[hilariousetc]

It may be best to remove all sigs anyway.

Well that's certainly one way to stop the sig spam once and for all but it's something theymos doesn't seem to want to do or is only going to do it as a last resort. I don't think we should ever remove signatures from everyone all-together though as it's not fair that spammers will ruin it for everyone else and those will be the people that will immediately leave this board to never return if that happens. It would be best to either remove signatures from all ranks until you've earned x amount of merit and/or charge people for them via more donator ranks.

Yep ban their sigs,  slap them back to snr member. But to lose your legendary account here is the loss of all your work. Some have put a solid year of their lives ....solid in hour terms into this board.  To have that deleted is massive over 1 copy and paste.

You could remove their signatures until they've earned x amount of merit. Say, if you're spotted copy and pasting then your signature is removed until you've earned 100 merit or so. I did suggest previously that users have their signature banned until they've shown that they can contribute something here, but since merit has been implemented maybe that would be a good indicator of how much they're actually contributing and it gives them a chance to atone for their sins and get their signature back providing they've contributed something here in the meantime.

I'd guess this would be equivalent to permaban for 90% of them.

Yeah, many would probably just give up. My only issue with this though is I reckon most of them will just hang around like a bad smell trolling and complaining about how unfair it is.

[suchmoon]

Although I would expect a bot could easily be coded to run their entire post history against google for matches.

Much harder than it sounds.

They could pay for this if they want to not get banned or pay for manual review. I dont expect most would mind paying 0.1 btc for review and keeping their account.

I still disagree with the premise that 1 in 1000 is ok, but if such criteria were implemented then yes, demanding a payment could be a good way to do it. Not going to happen though.

I mean we are talking 1 in 1000 posts. Not real ico pump teams and scammers fucking the board up.

The likelihood of someone plagiarizing only 1 in 1000 AND GETTING CAUGHT is so extremely low that it's just not worth debating. There are many more spamming issues that this forum is facing. The "1 in 1000" offences can be handled by theymos through the usual appeal process.

[William8062]

If you can really prove you didn't do it for financial reasons you can try to ask theymos about it.

Legends should be allowed one silly mistake if they really are net positive over all. I am sure now you see how easy to lose 4 years work you will not do it again.

I see some more legends getting banned.

I would give you another change because I think if it really was only 1 time and you have made 1200 other good posts over 4 years then okay. Perhaps I knock you back to hero or snr and take away your sig for a year and make clear no more chances.

The fact most of your posts are french makes it hard to review your post history.

Anyway good luck on this.

I am not going to lie, there was an airdrop involved (i usually don't do airdrop / sigs). But i have been a customer of Paymium from 2013/2014 i wanted to  take part of this one to show support.
I believe that legends should have a free pass as well.
I would be happy to be knocked down one or two level
Inded, this is the issue with being french, my posts are mostly french. But isn't it a beautiful language ?
Thanks for your words, feels good to have someone supportive and not poking me in the eyes with a stick !

The likelihood of someone plagiarizing only 1 in 1000 AND GETTING CAUGHT is so extremely low that it's just not worth debating. There are many more spamming issues that this forum is facing. The "1 in 1000" offences can be handled by theymos through the usual appeal process.

I would pay 0.1BTC to get my account reviewed by a french speaker (what about the french modorator ?, he is unbiased, we never exchanged a MP nor have a conversation in any of the french topic, he has no loyalty to me) and check that on the 1236 post, 99%  of them are not ICO scams / copy and paste / off topic...

The odds are low, but eh, i got caught, so it is not that low. Should i feel lucky to be the one in a million ?

Why would you even be on this forum just a few hours before you're going on honeymoon? Doesn't make any sense to me. If I was going on a vacation that day this forum would be the least of my worries, especially if you hadn't got everything planned or booked. This just sounds like another variation of the classic I was under some stress/pressure excuse.

I can't post images (yet), and I am not sure I want to dox myself by posting my flight tickets for everyone to see.
But if it removes me from your "list" of silly excuses for being ban, i would gladly send you a PM with pictures of the tickets, itinerary, and even the honeymoon video if you want 
As i explained, this project (the BCIO), is a project that i wanted to back and support and take part of, i did took 5 minutes to write/copy a message to partake to the airdrop. I don't know why it has been classified as a shit-thread on the forum. We are talking here about an innovative Fintech, involved in the BTC since 2010 and wiling to make a BTC decentralized exchange.




No one has yet answered my other question :
Since i have been banned, do i have to say goodbye to the forum forever ? or can i have an alt and be an active member again ?

[cryptohunter]

@OP

the fact you said this

"I would pay 0.1BTC to get my account reviewed by a french speaker (what about the french modorator ?, he is unbiased, we never exchanged a MP nor have a conversation in any of the french topic, he has no loyalty to me) and check that on the 1236 post, 99%  of them are not ICO scams / copy and paste / off topic..."

I feel you are 99% likely to be a good guy. I am actually working on devising a good way to sort the wheat from the chaff and bringing value to trusted members here who work to keep the board clean and working nicely.

I think if we are all reasonable we can all reach the result we want without losing any net positive members.

The thing I disliked the most was people seemingly happy and gloating at legends getting banned.

[William8062]

@OP

the fact you said this

"I would pay 0.1BTC to get my account reviewed by a french speaker (what about the french modorator ?, he is unbiased, we never exchanged a MP nor have a conversation in any of the french topic, he has no loyalty to me) and check that on the 1236 post, 99%  of them are not ICO scams / copy and paste / off topic..."

I feel you are 99% likely to be a good guy. I am actually working on devising a good way to sort the wheat from the chaff and bringing value to trusted members here who work to keep the board clean and working nicely.

I think if we are all reasonable we can all reach the result we want without losing any net positive members.

The thing I disliked the most was people seemingly happy and gloating at legends getting banned.

Just a precision, i didn't check the BPIP befoe writting my previous message.
Tt turns out that i did send a very small amount of merit to Halal for his work as moderator and trying to deter fake french translation https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4628772.msg41821431#msg41821431. 
However, he didn't send me any merit. 
I'm ok to pay 0.1BTC for any french speaking person to review my account and give his opinion about me.
(i'll only pay the 0.1BTC if an admin says that the outcome will be used to state on my situation. Don't rush in doing it and claim the prize if this has no value to the admins).

I feel you are 99% likely to be a good guy.

Well, i try to be a good guy, on the forum and IRL :
It is a little bit off-topic  but I have been a Rotarian for 10 years now (i started at 22 !!).
I'm raising money for Parkinson (mainly street appeal with a bucket but also via BTC), to schools/kids about healthy choice and against bullying.
I've just organised a duck race (and even sold 1 duck/ticket using BTC, i need to improve this for next year) ! that gathers hundred of participants and raised $15k (nzd) for School bullying, kids well-being and education.
This weekend i'm marshaling for free an event about E-vehicule, my slaray being given to the local Ronald McDonald house.
I tutor for free about crypto, whoever reach to me to learn.
The list is long .....

But yes, like every human i make mistake.
And i did copy and paste (with alteration and some of my own words see here :  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5056278.msg47242836#msg47242836   ) a message, once.

Cheers

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I don't think we should ever remove signatures from everyone all-together though as it's not fair that spammers will ruin it for everyone else and those will be the people that will immediately leave this board to never return if that happens.

Agree.  This forum would become a ghost town overnight if signatures were removed, and I don't think anyone here wants a solution that drastic.

I believe in second chances for the most part, but it worries me what kind of precedent would be set if people started getting lesser consequences for plagiarism or second chances based on rank.  Theymos is right, though.  Every case should be judged according to the circumstances and context, but that's assuming we really know what the facts are, and you can't really rely on the person who got banned to be completely truthful. 

[LoyceV]

No one has yet answered my other question :
Since i have been banned, do i have to say goodbye to the forum forever ? or can i have an alt and be an active member again ?

Officially, bans are for you as a person, which means you're not allowed to create another account and post anywhere else than this thread.
The only ones who can make an exception are Admins (theymos/Cyrus). The forum doesn't need money, and I don't think theymos is sensitive for it either.

I believe in second chances for the most part, but it worries me what kind of precedent would be set if people started getting lesser consequences for plagiarism or second chances based on rank.

There's a precedent already: Lone Shark's case.

[cryptohunter]

I don't think we should ever remove signatures from everyone all-together though as it's not fair that spammers will ruin it for everyone else and those will be the people that will immediately leave this board to never return if that happens.

Agree.  This forum would become a ghost town overnight if signatures were removed, and I don't think anyone here wants a solution that drastic.

I believe in second chances for the most part, but it worries me what kind of precedent would be set if people started getting lesser consequences for plagiarism or second chances based on rank.  Theymos is right, though.  Every case should be judged according to the circumstances and context, but that's assuming we really know what the facts are, and you can't really rely on the person who got banned to be completely truthful.  

Well the precedent would be 1 per 1000 posts of real plagiarism where there is no sensible explanation like copy and pasting an announcement from exchange regarding that project in that projects thread or some mining guide that a noob asked for. Fair for all. That is also only in retrospect from this point. From now on zero tolerance for real financially motivated plagiarism.

However all this will likely vanish with sigs being deleted from all.

You will have to go futher thought tp stop account sellers if there are no criteria or rules for giving merit, and it is even harder to stop fake ico conversations though.

Years ago I hardly noticed any sig ads and the forum was running very well.

[cellard]

I don't think we should ever remove signatures from everyone all-together though as it's not fair that spammers will ruin it for everyone else and those will be the people that will immediately leave this board to never return if that happens.

Agree.  This forum would become a ghost town overnight if signatures were removed, and I don't think anyone here wants a solution that drastic.

I believe in second chances for the most part, but it worries me what kind of precedent would be set if people started getting lesser consequences for plagiarism or second chances based on rank.  Theymos is right, though.  Every case should be judged according to the circumstances and context, but that's assuming we really know what the facts are, and you can't really rely on the person who got banned to be completely truthful. 

Roger Ver would be the first to capitalize on signatures being removed. He would start tweeting all day about how his forum allows signature campaigns and he would get all the traffic in there, which in return he would not only get more money due ad revenue but the increased traffic would rank his forum above bitcointalk.org on Google search results.

Some people are too idealistic and don't understand internet marketing and SEO in general. Keep the traffic source and improve moderation is the way to go.