To save bitcoin - stop buying bitcoin cash

[Aris novianto]

now we have to save bitcoin, because if we invest in bitcoin coins will definitely suffer losses, I will invest when the price of bitcoin coins starts to stabilize, because the price of all coins is now declining

[maman567]

You have hurry up to buy and invest your money at bitcoin, never trying for investing at bitcoin cash because bitcoin have potential for growing up, just wait and see how much percent bitcoin will raised to higher price about two weeks later.

[nutildah]

Why would I stop buying bitcoin cash if it has much better utility than BTC?

Do you really buy BCH, and is it really better than BTC? I doubt it, and no.

I can rely on fees being low forever and I can buy stuff cheap on Purse. It's also not advertised as a store of value, so it's not a pyramid scheme,

Wrong. Gavin Andresen, 2017:

"Bitcoin Cash is what I started working on in 2010: a store of value AND means of exchange."

https://twitter.com/gavinandresen/status/929377620000681984

it actually has some fundamentals that can determine a price (although every coin is overpriced).
Wouldn't buy BCH as an investment, but their community is working to provide actual utility, whereas OP is a gambler like most of BTC-ers.

There's no question that more of BCH's price is speculator-driven than BTC, and that's why it's constantly sinking in price compared to BTC. Its a doubling down on inferior tech.

[MFahad]

This dump was triggered by the battle of the hashes. If we remove bch and bsv from having any value it would discourage more pointless bitcoin dilution, and prevent further hash wars.

Failure to act will cause more similar situations in the future

I agree with you, but in fact these coins have no future and I understand they were created only for the sake of the development team to make a profit. Bitcoin is one and it will never replace other coins even if they are more functional.

Many people do not realize this and especially the traders. They  (traders) think that to gain profit is their only target and no matter from which coin it comes. If you analysis that Bitcoin Cash has no true use case but since the Bitcoin cash has come it has always been at a high rank and high value and this is only because of the fact the big whales own this coin and they always keep it pump.

[deisik]

BCH took from BTC-s price - true. But had it not forked, all the early adopters who wanted to use Bitcoin as cash would have sold their coins anyway - so the end result would be the same

How do you know that?

Your assumption that people who sold Bitcoin Cash would have sold Bitcoin if there were no fork is completely arbitrary. I can just as easily claim that people who sold their Bitcoin Cash coins bought Bitcoin with the proceeds. Basically, the money that Bitcoin Cash provided was taken from Bitcoin's value (there's no free lunch), and the end result would be the same if all Bitcoin Cash holders dumped their coins and bought regular bitcoins instead

[BurgerCash]

BCH took from BTC-s price - true. But had it not forked, all the early adopters who wanted to use Bitcoin as cash would have sold their coins anyway - so the end result would be the same

How do you know that?

Your assumption that people who sold Bitcoin Cash would have sold Bitcoin if there were no fork is completely arbitrary. I can just as easily claim that people who sold their Bitcoin Cash coins bought Bitcoin with the proceeds. Basically, the money that Bitcoin Cash provided was taken from Bitcoin's value (there's no free lunch), and the end result would be the same if all Bitcoin Cash holders dumped their coins and bought regular bitcoins instead

Well, failure to scale has driven tons of early adopters away. I'm not saying they would have sold for dollars, maybe they would have invested more heavily in ETH, maybe they would have joined the first exodus from "Store of Value" bullcrappery in Dash (although I'm not a fan of how Dash started at all).

it actually has some fundamentals that can determine a price (although every coin is overpriced).
Wouldn't buy BCH as an investment, but their community is working to provide actual utility, whereas OP is a gambler like most of BTC-ers.

There's no question that more of BCH's price is speculator-driven than BTC, and that's why it's constantly sinking in price compared to BTC. Its a doubling down on inferior tech.

Adding "there's no question" to the beginning of your statement does not make it true. BCH was heavily pumped simply because many people sold BTC for BCH at once - and being early adopters they held a large quantity of it. This is not speculation, or at least not intended as speculation - as those people are not at fault for being in BTC since 2010 and owning large quantities of it.
Also I'm not saying BCH price is not specualtive - I said all of the coins are overpriced, read my post again.
What I meant is that BTC price is determined by what speculators of today think the speculators of tomorrow will price it at.
Whereas BCH price is determined by what speculators of today think the adoption rates will be, driving future price increases. And I'm not a BCH defender - as you can see those speculators are pessimistic. Hash wars and instability have taken their toll. Maybe bitcoin as originally intended is dead for good, who knows.

[deisik]

BCH took from BTC-s price - true. But had it not forked, all the early adopters who wanted to use Bitcoin as cash would have sold their coins anyway - so the end result would be the same

How do you know that?

Your assumption that people who sold Bitcoin Cash would have sold Bitcoin if there were no fork is completely arbitrary. I can just as easily claim that people who sold their Bitcoin Cash coins bought Bitcoin with the proceeds. Basically, the money that Bitcoin Cash provided was taken from Bitcoin's value (there's no free lunch), and the end result would be the same if all Bitcoin Cash holders dumped their coins and bought regular bitcoins instead

Well, failure to scale has driven tons of early adopters away. I'm not saying they would have sold for dollars, maybe they would have invested more heavily in ETH, maybe they would have joined the first exodus from "Store of Value" bullcrappery in Dash (although I'm not a fan of how Dash started at all)

Failure to scale? What did I miss?

Don't we already have Lightning Network in the mainnet? Maybe, you actually wanted to say that it took so long to finally make it there, right? But it took even longer for these "early adopters" to wait until this has become an issue at all. If such people firmly believed in the technology for so many years, with all its bumps and hiccups down the road, they should understand that such things are not done overnight. And they should know it better than anyone else, apart from also being the most interested party in Bitcoin as a reliable, trusted and bugfree means of payment or store of value. The people you refer to are anyone but early adopters

[ChrisPop]

I don't think that anyone buys bitcoin cash because they still believe in it. At least for me it is pretty clear that it is just a trading instrument. You can short or long it and make some BTC profits. As I said that's my take on it, Bitcoin remains the king and I'm sure everyone will dump BCH and other copycats once we get back into a bull market.

[cryptomaster420]

I don't think that anyone buys bitcoin cash because they still believe in it. At least for me it is pretty clear that it is just a trading instrument. You can short or long it and make some BTC profits. As I said that's my take on it, Bitcoin remains the king and I'm sure everyone will dump BCH and other copycats once we get back into a bull market.

Like the other BCH defender up there, I'm also not a fan of holding the actual coin as it's overpriced as is (15000 transactions is pretty pathetic, even if it has the fundamentals to scale).

BCH is not a copycat, it has its own roadmap that's better aligned with the economic system outlined in the bitcoin whitepaper. You're free to disagree with it, but they have every right to claim what they're claming given that the economic incentives in the system are more closely related to the WP than those of BTC. Bitcoin should be cash, and since I'm not really invested in either BTC or BCH - good luck to LN proponents in achieving cash status, I mean it. But I was also quite disappointed by the "SoV" narrative during the 2017 split.

BCH is also a HORRIBLE trading instrument, because its main fanboys are the early bitcoin community of 2010-2011. If they decide to buy, it's gonna double, maybe even triple in price simply because the market cannot sustain their huge riches.
If they get discouraged, it's gonna dump to $5.
And you can't predictany of this. So how can you trade something that can go in whatever direction it wants at any point in time, you're just gonna lose your money (or make money out of sheer luck, but good traders don't rely on that).

But most importantly:

I don't think that anyone buys bitcoin cash because they still believe in it.

You should maybe start following the early bitcoin proponents then. Roger Ver, Rick Falkvinge, Gavin Andresen, Vin Armani, Brian Armstrong and the rest of the crew who made bitcoin what it is today. I don't know if they're actually buying it (because if they see what i see - it's not a good thing to BUY, just a good thing to support), but they sure as hell believe in it, and each and every one of them has 100x more money than all of us in this thread combined.

[deisik]

BCH is not a copycat, it has its own roadmap that's better aligned with the economic system outlined in the bitcoin whitepaper. You're free to disagree with it, but they have every right to claim what they're claming given that the economic incentives in the system are more closely related to the WP than those of BTC. Bitcoin should be cash, and since I'm not really invested in either BTC or BCH - good luck to LN proponents in achieving cash status, I mean it. But I was also quite disappointed by the "SoV" narrative during the 2017 split

I'm curious what roadmap you refer to here

If this one, then I don't know who is more insane, the dudes who created it or the ones who they created it for. When I saw it, it was an eye-opener of sorts for me which let me clearly see that people behind Bitcoin Cash (no matter which one exactly) are in this business exclusively for money (or maybe they are even more insane than I can imagine)

BCH is also a HORRIBLE trading instrument, because its main fanboys are the early bitcoin community of 2010-2011. If they decide to buy, it's gonna double, maybe even triple in price simply because the market cannot sustain their huge riches

How are these fanboys particularly different from Bitcoin ones if everyone of both camps was given the same amount of Bitcoin Cash coins at the fork?

[fianaindriati]

This dump was triggered by the battle of the hashes. If we remove bch and bsv from having any value it would discourage more pointless bitcoin dilution, and prevent further hash wars.

Failure to act will cause more similar situations in the future

in my opinion failure is natural, but we also have to stand up and move forward so that failure does not happen back to us, if we fail again then we must repeat it again, and we will increasingly think that failure is the beginning of our success. so even though we are failing in bitcoin right now, I believe that we will not fail continuously.

[mandor]

I hate to say this but the main cause that made the price of Bitcoin fall to date is because of the hard fork Bitcoin cash and I agree it 'better to save Bitcoin, then stop buying Bitcoin Cash. if Bitcoin cash never shows up and hard fork on Bitcoin cash is not done then the price of Bitcoin may not fall like this badly.

[atomium]

BCH had a good run while it lasted, after all of the bad press and schemes behind it ruined its rep. There is still a lot money invested in it, I just don't see it going anywhere anymore.

[Herbert2020]

BCH had a good run while it lasted, after all of the bad press and schemes behind it ruined its rep. There is still a lot money invested in it, I just don't see it going anywhere anymore.

it never had any "rep" to ruin it! maybe some newbies were fooled into believing the lies they told but the majority never believed a single thing.
the only thing that BCH had was hype and it is nothing new with pump and dump altcoins. it literary happens every single day in the market. the altcoins get hyped up, they get pumped so they increase their price unrealistically then they get dumped.
that can be repeated multiple times before the coin dies for good, the number of p&d periods different coins have, and the size of it may differ but all the altcoins have the same patterns.

[Wexnident]

 I guess the reason why bitcoin failed to ascend last year is because of the alternative coins that increased simultaneously with the bitcoin last 2017. Diversifying is what the investors sees as another opportunity of profiting not just only with bitcoin, on 2017 alongside with bitcoin lots of altcoin rose up. Therefore not buying BCH will save the bitcoin from decline but the adaption from the real world.

[BurgerCash]

I guess the reason why bitcoin failed to ascend last year is because of the alternative coins that increased simultaneously with the bitcoin last 2017. Diversifying is what the investors sees as another opportunity of profiting not just only with bitcoin, on 2017 alongside with bitcoin lots of altcoin rose up. Therefore not buying BCH will save the bitcoin from decline but the adaption from the real world.

Altcoins were a thing 2009-2016 - and we all knew they were shitcoins and wouldn't touch them with a 9 foot pole. Why do you think in 2017 suddenly people started moving into alts, even early bitcoiners.
Why did Bitcoin businesses decide to become cryptocurrency businesses instead?
Could it be that some coins offered more than BTC could? I'm all for LN, let's hope it really kicks off, but we had 2 years of slowed growth, of course people were looking for alternatives, and unfortunately I don't think the damage is reparable.
Now to be fair, 2016-2017 gave birth to a lot of amazing projects that are not bitcoin competitors, but rather innovative at their own thing. Augur was the first oracle, but even Augur started on top of BTC and had to move to ETH...

[maxreish]

You can not certainly control an investor not to buy bitcoin cash to save bitcoin. It doesn't affect the price of bitcoin. I mean, I believe there is something else or other reasons why we experienced bearish market. Yes, it is something that demand and supply of btc can only explain.
Also, bitcoin cash will not to be the talk of the town for the long time and it will surely subside. So, let us not panic about bch that will replace bitcoin. It will not gonna happen.

[amyshek1979]

Bitcoin cash drama isn't the main reason for the BTC price dump.

[hv_]

I should have opened a discussion

To save bitcoin - stop buying segwit,

but that would not have aged
long here 

[roosbit]

This dump was triggered by the battle of the hashes. If we remove bch and bsv from having any value it would discourage more pointless bitcoin dilution, and prevent further hash wars.

Failure to act will cause more similar situations in the future

But doesn't BSV and BCH remove the pressure off bitcoin?? Remember these altcoins were born from bitcoins problems which were coupled with high transaction fees and long waiting times for TXs to confirm.