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Question: Should we have alternatives to permabans for plagarism
Yes - Signature ban - whether permanent or temporary
Yes - Signature ban indefinitely until they've earned x amount of merit
Yes - Pay some sort of fine
No - Nothing should change and permabans remain

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Author Topic: Alternatives to Permabans for plagarism  (Read 19249 times)
Quickseller
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December 25, 2018, 09:18:09 PM
 #81

I suspect these people are few and far between.

You're wrong, believe me.
Why do you think these people are plagiarizing? What are their incentives to do this? Are they trying to rank up their accounts? Are they trying to use SEO to help their websites?

I would suggest that accounts get permabanned and this would get reduced to a signature ban (after an x day “hard” ban) upon the person appealing the ban.

Find the fire hydrant in my Avatar for a prize.
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cryptohunter
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December 25, 2018, 09:53:38 PM
 #82

Banning these bots that are cutting and pasting from the net just to bump threads does nothing.

It is likely automated mostly to rejoin with tons more of them immediately.

Let's stick to discussing the only thing you can tackle with sig bans or bans.

You are going to have to implement junior boards to get rid of fake conversation and bot bumpers.

Even then you will just move it to junior boards but at least the main discussion boards will slow down and there will be more collisions by real members that can write real content and posts. More real debates and discussions.

Perm bans do nothing for spam bots bumping topics or any brand new accounts because they have no value and are totally expendable.

Sig bans will have the same effect the account is dead for them now.










Rapid123
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December 26, 2018, 02:06:10 AM
 #83

Oh God thank you @ hilariousetc

finally something happenin for banned members. ive asked for these  3 month ago, i was checking meta forum everyday to see if there is something new about Permabans rules or not
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5044571.0

"Ban my signature! Ban my access to market! Force to pay some sort of fine"  all of them! , i will do anything to get my original account back!

@Theymos @Cyrus can you reconsider on permabans Rules ?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5044571.0

.
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December 26, 2018, 02:16:29 AM
 #84

Oh God thank you @ hilariousetc

finally something happenin for banned members. ive asked for these  3 month ago, i was checking meta forum everyday to see if there is something new about Permabans rules or not
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5044571.0

"Ban my signature! Ban my access to market! Force to pay some sort of fine"  all of them! , i will do anything to get my original account back!

How is evading your ban gonna help your case?

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December 26, 2018, 02:28:09 AM
 #85

Oh God thank you @ hilariousetc

finally something happenin for banned members. ive asked for these  3 month ago, i was checking meta forum everyday to see if there is something new about Permabans rules or not
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5044571.0

"Ban my signature! Ban my access to market! Force to pay some sort of fine"  all of them! , i will do anything to get my original account back!

How is evading your ban gonna help your case?

Mate
This is not evading! ive not posted in any topic outside of  META forum For 3 month. im just posting about my ban issue

You don't get a blanket permission to post anywhere you like in Meta:

25. Ban evasion (using or creating accounts while one of your accounts is banned) is not allowed.[e]
[...]

Examples:

[...]

25. If you get banned (temporarily or permanently) and create a new account to continue posting / sending PMs, it's considered ban evasion. The only exception is creating a thread in Meta about your ban.

You posted in 9 threads with this account. Some posts have nothing to do with your ban. I'd say you should stay where you are and stop dreaming about getting unbanned if you can't read the rules even after you got banned once.

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December 26, 2018, 02:29:43 AM
Last edit: December 26, 2018, 02:43:06 AM by Rapid123
 #86


You don't get a blanket permission to post anywhere you like in Meta:


OK. Sorry. accept my apology. i will delete those posts & will not post anymore.

@Theymos @Cyrus can you reconsider on permabans Rules ?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5044571.0

.
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December 29, 2018, 04:56:49 AM
 #87

Do we know if any progress has been made in this topic ?

Has the new team in charge of managing hacked and locked / banned accounts been given any directives?



Quote from: theymos
If you are banned

Your ban message may have an email address which you can email. If not, then appeals are unlikely to be accepted.


Source = https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5089777

“W̼̟̻͎̞̦̖̭̩͔͇̺͍̩̯̲̔̆̌̏͂͑ͦͧ͛̿̑̈́̎͑̽̍ͭ̏̇͜ill you draW̼̟̻͎̞̦̖̭̩͔͇̺͍̩̯̲̔̆̌̏͂͑ͦͧ͛̿̑̈́̎͑̽̍ͭ̏̇͜ me a sheep?”
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December 29, 2018, 07:23:33 AM
 #88

Do we know if any progress has been made in this topic ?

Has the new team in charge of managing hacked and locked / banned accounts been given any directives?



Quote from: theymos
If you are banned

Your ban message may have an email address which you can email. If not, then appeals are unlikely to be accepted.


Source = https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5089777
This is just suggestion but admin need to decide what need to be done,but looks like still the permaban is the result when someone got plagiarism and its most likely to stay in the future as well since he implemented the new ban message for plagiarist and says appeals are not likely to be accepted.
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December 30, 2018, 01:41:52 AM
 #89

Perma bans are needed somethimes but should be issued with absolute care. Some people around here are adding a 100x more value than the single ‘mistake’ they made. A user who takes the time to fundamentaly apply for lifting his ban should be taken very seriously.  I would like to see this change! My vote is here.
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December 30, 2018, 02:58:14 PM
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 #90

Do we know if any progress has been made in this topic ?

Has the new team in charge of managing hacked and locked / banned accounts been given any directives?



Quote from: theymos
If you are banned

Your ban message may have an email address which you can email. If not, then appeals are unlikely to be accepted.


Source = https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5089777

Whoever is in the recovery team is probably just there to restore hacked/lost accounts and not cases of bans for breaking rules. Theymos has said there are no concrete rules regarding bans and we can enforce them as we see fit and be more lenient in certain cases, but I'm not going to give certain people free passes because it's not fair and is just going to lead to more issues and hassle when people start complaining that x was unbanned for y by so-and-so so why aren't they. The only way I'll likely start giving people second chances if theymos implements signature bans. That way there's some fairness across the board. You can have your account back but you just can't earn from it. I would be happy to review accounts if this was put into place but I don't think it would be fair to unban certain people and they can resume partaking in signature campaigns whilst others don't even get their accounts back at all. Several people have said they would happily forgo a signature if they can just get their account back so I think it's something we should look at. If that happens and they stick around and show that they're a helpful member of the community and aren't here just for payment then I'd even be up for reviewing whether they can have their signature back at some point as well, but I think if Globals start making up their own rules for who gets unbanned or not it's just opening up a huge can of worms that will only lead to more problems.

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December 31, 2018, 02:37:24 PM
 #91

A curious question:

Does plagiarism ban cause evil ip fees?
Or in other words which type of ban/activities attract evil IP fees?

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December 31, 2018, 02:48:11 PM
 #92

Yes. I think any permaban causes evil points. As for what other behaviours do I think theymos will have to answer that. I'm not sure what he wants as public knowledge or not.

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January 09, 2019, 12:50:28 PM
 #93

My apologies if this was mentioned here already or somewhere else on the Forum (I did a quick search through the 5 pages looking for bounty and altcoin as keywords and didn't find anything).

How about preventing plagiarists from reading and posting in the Altcoin and Bounty sections + the ability to send PMs?
That way they would not be able to search for, participate or send bounty reports (make money off the forum) but they can still post in other sections of the forum. Not all users who copy/paste are merely shit posters and they can still contribute in some positive ways.

Then it will be possible to see the distinction between those who simply give up and leave since they cant take part in bounties and the others who actually want to participate in the forum and try to better themselves.

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January 09, 2019, 01:14:50 PM
 #94

<…>
In real life common circles, people tend to use information and other people’s phrases freely, speaking then without having to cite the source (what a laugh that would be). But of course, common acceptance of plagiarism varies on the circle where it is being used, and even the communication form itself.

The forum has a couple of good reasons to consider plagiarism a penalty: it is more often than not being used to gain a personal benefit, be it by trying to build character and reputation to some (poor) extent, or to cut corners and save time instead of using the grey matter in conjunction with personal time.

The rule is not trivial to enforce as it is, since it requires people to report the plagiarism and others to asses it. Therefore, likely a fair share goes unspotted (but may spin back at some point down the line). Shifting the parts of the playing board where one can plagiarize without being punished and leaving other parts as inpunitive zones seems like a strange solution. I’d prefer keeping the rules simple, but perhaps, introduce a timeframe where these kind of reports may apply to (say over the last two years of the accounts posting history).

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January 09, 2019, 03:54:48 PM
 #95

The concept of plagiarism by mistake doesn't really make any sense to me. I don't believe that a person can really forget to mention the source from where he just literally copied and pasted something into his post/comment unless they don't care, or aren't aware of the fact that plagiarism is treated as a crime in here and is dealt with a harsh punishment.

Mistakes are done by everyone, I agree, but why don't we commit this kind of mistakes? (I'm talking about everyone who are considered to be good members of the community). Of course we all require to search the internet in order to answer a few queries that we are not sure about, at least I do, but what I do is either confirm the thing first and then convey it in my own way, and if in a case where I need to quote something, I make sure I mention the source I've taken it from because I have some sense and I know it is not right.

The only excuse I can think of by someone who has plagiarized anytime in past (either by mistake or purposely) is that they were not aware of the rule. For that matter, The Registration Message thing should be rolled out which would be sent to every new account upon registration which would either contain a list of the rules or the link to the thread that contains them, along with the other important stuff a member needs to know before using the forum. Also, the message should be sent to every user account at the time of implementation to avoid getting complains and later excuses from the pre-existing user accounts that are still unaware of the rules.


I believe the current punishment of permanent ban for plagiarism has nothing wrong in it since it rarely happens when a user unintentionally plagiarizes and doesn't even realize their mistake even after reading so many things about the issue in the forum, and committing mistakes like that even after reading the rules sent to your inbox personally should be treated with the same punishment as others. Hence, I voted for, "No - Nothing should change and permabans remain".
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January 09, 2019, 05:54:51 PM
Merited by Foxpup (3)
 #96

The concept of plagiarism by mistake doesn't really make any sense to me. I don't believe that a person can really forget to mention the source from where he just literally copied and pasted something into his post/comment unless they don't care, or aren't aware of the fact that plagiarism is treated as a crime in here and is dealt with a harsh punishment.

When the "mistake" or "didn't know it's bad" argument is brought up I'm trying to imagine the user shoplifting and then trying to explain to the cops that it was a mistake or that they didn't know it's not cool to walk out of the store without paying.

So yeah, it doesn't happen accidentally. And it's not like in the store we see signs "don't go out without paying".

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January 09, 2019, 06:02:25 PM
 #97

Quote
Yes - Signature ban - whether permanent or temporary
Yes - Pay some sort of fine
These two won't guarantee that they will stop from plagiarizing more post once the ban is lifted or the fine is paid, the chances of them doing it again will be higher as the days goes by. I also see that the permanent signature ban can cause a lot of affected members to spam the forum with their shitpost saying that the system is unfair and how they can't getaway from just one plagiarized post. I think the old system still works just fine. I don't see that their is a certain degree of plagiarism where a member can be forgiven plagiarism is still plagiarism, there is no creativity or effort behind it.

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January 15, 2019, 03:36:37 AM
Last edit: January 15, 2019, 03:59:08 AM by Klaud
 #98

The concept of plagiarism by mistake doesn't really make any sense to me. I don't believe that a person can really forget to mention the source from where he just literally copied and pasted something into his post/comment unless they don't care, or aren't aware of the fact that plagiarism is treated as a crime in here and is dealt with a harsh punishment.

When the "mistake" or "didn't know it's bad" argument is brought up I'm trying to imagine the user shoplifting and then trying to explain to the cops that it was a mistake or that they didn't know it's not cool to walk out of the store without paying.

So yeah, it doesn't happen accidentally. And it's not like in the store we see signs "don't go out without paying".

Then ask your friends if you have a lot of them.

Did not happen to them that they bought a lot of goods in the store, while unconsciously forgot to pay for the chewing gum, which was put in the pocket, when it was necessary to use two hands to get some goods.

If that happened, do you think they're thieves?

Now they can't go shopping, right?

Probably you will even stop communicating with such people, right?

In fact, they just go back to the store and pay for it and the problem will be exhausted, the forum does not have this capability.

You can deceive thousands of people and you just lose trust (as it was with Atriz) but you can continue to conduct their dark deeds...

Is that justice?

I think it's hypocrisy.

You like to compare things that can't be compared.

For you, even a person who unknowingly made one mistake is a criminal without the right to rehabilitation...

ps:

I can write the same thing about many favorite comparison with institutes.

Yes, you can make a diploma using someone else's work and you will be expelled, or you will forget to indicate 1 source in the list of used literature when writing a diploma project, for which you will not be expelled.

You have to understand the difference in these things.

There is a huge difference in when a person does it once and most likely unconsciously and when a person does it on purpose.

I didn't notice you putting emphasis on that.

I think that 1 temporary ban is enough for a person to understand that he made a mistake and should be more careful than to be sentenced for life without the right to appeal.

But this will only work if you're really fighting plagiarism, not trying to bury users...
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January 15, 2019, 03:50:16 AM
 #99

How about the ban remains, just that the each time a user post a reply or opens a thread, there's a warning banner or notification against plagiarism?

That way, there's no grounds of appealing once he/ she gets banned.

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January 15, 2019, 05:06:13 AM
 #100

chewing gum

Nice attempt to twist it to fit your agenda, but:

1) Copy pasta is not a mistake, it's a deliberate action often involving obfuscation as well.
2) Your ban evasion is also major offense so you either still haven't read the rules or you don't give a shit... I'd say that makes your posturing on the fairness of said rules moot.

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